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In_
Jan. 13, 2010, 11:21 AM
I have always bought/sold horses without the aid of a trainer selling/buying for me. So even though I am an experienced horsewoman, I am terribly naive when it comes to the details of working/selling on a commission. I know standard rate is around 10% - trainers/agents, do you set a minimum selling price that you will work with? What happens if the price is negotiated lower than that (due to a poor vetting, a very persuasive buyer etc etc)?

I have been asked to ride Owner's horses to help sell. I will school during the week and then show to prospective buyers, with the owner there. Owner will be finding/in communication with all prospective buyers, setting times, etc. The owner has asked if I want a per ride payment or a commission - and I'm trying to decide what the correct answer is. One problem being that I do not know what the owner is asking - and therefore have no way to estimate total commission value. Horse is green and not fancy - so not talking big dollar here.

Suggestions?

RockinHorse
Jan. 13, 2010, 11:28 AM
If all you are doing is riding the horse for prospective buyers, I think a "per ride" fee is more appropriate.

headsupheelsdown
Jan. 13, 2010, 11:41 AM
That's a "per ride" situation.

shawneeAcres
Jan. 13, 2010, 12:05 PM
You need to do this on a per ride basis. You are not acting as "agent" so not really a commission type situation. She may OFFER you a small amount if horse sells but leave that up to her, often I will give someone who rides a sale horse a little "extra" upon sale, but not a commission per se

ExJumper
Jan. 13, 2010, 12:54 PM
Not to be a broken record -- but if you are an ammy you can't do either. If that isn't an issue, I would agree that a per-ride fee might be better.

EquineRacers
Jan. 13, 2010, 05:52 PM
This is what I do. I sell horses straight off the racetrack.

Say the owner wants $1000 for the horse. I will price the horse at $1500 to leave room to bargining. If I get anything over $1000, say $1300, then I give the owner the $1000 and I keep $300, but if I sell the horse for the asking price of $1000, then I take 10% of it, which is only $100. I will also take 10% if the horse is sold for less then what they owner is asking.

Timex
Jan. 13, 2010, 07:44 PM
If all you're doing is riding the horse, that's a per ride situation. Plus, if you're dealing with a horse with that lower price tag, you might end up doing better that way, depending on how many people come look at him.

loshad
Jan. 13, 2010, 09:07 PM
This is what I do. I sell horses straight off the racetrack.

Say the owner wants $1000 for the horse. I will price the horse at $1500 to leave room to bargining. If I get anything over $1000, say $1300, then I give the owner the $1000 and I keep $300, but if I sell the horse for the asking price of $1000, then I take 10% of it, which is only $100. I will also take 10% if the horse is sold for less then what they owner is asking.

Does the owner of the horse know you are doing that? If so, there's no problem.

HOWEVER, I would have a real problem if a seller did this behind my back. That would be pretty damn unethical and downright dishonest, frankly.

mvp
Jan. 14, 2010, 08:26 AM
Kudos to anyone helping move race horses-- that helps the trainer, the buyer and the horse.

But do you help the trainer price the horse? If you have any conversation that says "Look, dude, he's only worth a grand" while you plan to pad that price for the buyer, I'd have a problem.

I do agree that it's no fun to make your money $100 or $300 at a time. But buying horses is considered shady enough that I think there's no room for any hint of it double dealing in it. If you can be the person with a sterling reputation for honest dealings, you'll stand out and help fix the problem that gives buyers reason to be paranoid.

meupatdoes
Jan. 14, 2010, 08:43 AM
Does the owner of the horse know you are doing that? If so, there's no problem.

HOWEVER, I would have a real problem if a seller did this behind my back. That would be pretty damn unethical and downright dishonest, frankly.

DITTO.

$300 instead of the $130 is arbitrarily more than doubling the commission. Suddenly you get almost a quarter of the value of the horse???

If the owner doesn't know about it, it is a direct violation of agency law, so not only is it unethical and dishonest, it is also illegal.

meupatdoes
Jan. 14, 2010, 08:53 AM
Kudos to anyone helping move race horses-- that helps the trainer, the buyer and the horse.

But do you help the trainer price the horse? If you have any conversation that says "Look, dude, he's only worth a grand" while you plan to pad that price for the buyer, I'd have a problem.

I do agree that it's no fun to make your money $100 or $300 at a time. But buying horses is considered shady enough that I think there's no room for any hint of it double dealing in it. If you can be the person with a sterling reputation for honest dealings, you'll stand out and help fix the problem that gives buyers reason to be paranoid.

It doesn't even matter if s/he says, "Look dude, he's only worth a grand." (Although that is a common corrollary of this type of dealing.)

What matters is that the horse in this example sold for $1,300. This means that the agent must hand over the ENTIRE $1,300, and then the owner pays commission out FROM THAT.

If s/he can convince the owner to write her a $300 check with full knowledge that it is almost 25% of what the horse sold for, fine. But if s/he is having buyers write the $1,300 check to him/her and then doling out $1,000 to the owner, that is NOT COOL.

That would be completely unacceptable to me as the owner of the horse. If some sheikh decides he really likes my horse because it's bay and his favorite horse's sibling and offers $10,000 for it, suddenly s/he gets $9,000? Total crap!

Hauwse
Jan. 14, 2010, 11:39 AM
This is what I do. I sell horses straight off the racetrack.

Say the owner wants $1000 for the horse. I will price the horse at $1500 to leave room to bargining. If I get anything over $1000, say $1300, then I give the owner the $1000 and I keep $300, but if I sell the horse for the asking price of $1000, then I take 10% of it, which is only $100. I will also take 10% if the horse is sold for less then what they owner is asking.

This is more like brokering a deal than acting as an agent.

Before anyone starts calling it unethical, this is done a fair bit in the business, but tends to be done more between trainers etc. I have a horse I want $10K, if you can sell it for anything over its yours.

As far as the poster goes, your situation is not that of an agent or broker, if you decide upon the commission, the rate will probably be less than that of an agent, since they generally market the horse, bring in the buyers, and then present the horse to the buyer, frequently handling the entire deal except for the exchange of money.

My two cents is to stick to the ride fee as you know what that is worth to you.