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View Full Version : Feedback Wanted: St Augustine PC Unrecog HT (MD)



BeverlyAStrauss
Jan. 13, 2010, 08:24 AM
So.........we are now officially co-organizers of the St Augustine Pony Club Unrecognized Springfest HT here at Unicorn Farm in Chesapeake City on Sat 4/24. We have always loved riding here- everyone is friendly, the courses are well built, the footing is good, and it runs on time- but entries have been light in the last year or two, and we are revamping the event.

We have added a pre-elementary (leadline allowed), plus the regular elementary, intro, beg novice, and novice. The novice division will have some training options flagged if someone wants that challenge.

We are also adding "dressage only" rides so people can ride the new 2010 eventing tests in a competition setting- and will schedule those rides early in the day. You can come and just ride one or more dressage tests, or if you are entered in the HT, you can ride an extra test if you want. Dressage tests will be scored according to eventing rules (converted to penalty pts, low score is better) and ribbons will be awarded in the dressage only classes- blue (teens-20's), red (30's), yellow (40's) depending on your score.

Finally, we are offering an award for the lowest scoring PC'er, lowest scoring TB (of course!), and a discount for PC members.

BUT! We want and need your feedback on how to make this event the best it can be. Have you ridden here in the past? What did you like/dislike? What would you change?

Thanks in advance!
Bev & Ginny
MidAtlantic Horse Rescue

DiablosHalo
Jan. 13, 2010, 08:48 AM
Hey Bev- It's been a looong time since I've ridden there! Let me know if you need any help with things. The only thing I would love to see is for you to start a service.... cattle prodding us older folk into actually tacking up one of our herd and riding!!!! LOL! I have no motivation. :*(

eta- I have overnight stalls available if any of your enteries need close stabling.

Laurie

LuckyStar
Jan. 13, 2010, 09:12 AM
I am fairly close, but tend to go to the northeast ohio series for unrecognized events. Definitely do all you can to get the word out over here in PA, as we often have to travel a little further and I suspect many would be happy to come your way. Will you have stabling available?

You might also consider adding a CT, especially if you are running dressage test of choice already, maybe including a level or two up from where you are doing the HT to possibly draw more entries. I think that would be helpful for many people, especially early in the season.

BeverlyAStrauss
Jan. 13, 2010, 09:17 AM
Hey Laurie! This is actually the event that got Ginny and I back into eventing again after all those years at the track- we dared each other to ride, we took rescue horses, went elementary and those 18" fences looked huge! Since then Ginny has gotten Chuck going well at Training and has her rescue mare now going Novice- my rescue guy is finally starting Novice this spring after some minor soundness issues last fall. Maybe we should have an award for re-riders- for those who are thinking about dusting off those tall black boots and finding a coat that fits after all these years.

Jleegriffith
Jan. 13, 2010, 09:18 AM
Opinion coming from someone who is typically riding ottb's going to their first few events.

- Previous courses didn't make any sense to me and instead of giving confidence they backed the horses off. My issue has always been that they like to throw some big scary fence within the first 3 fences on course which doesn't help get your horse in the flow. Example- red coop with metal strip on top for BN/Novice or those ugly looking wine barrels as a first fence for BN! and I could go on and on. I remember riding my horse in intro for his first event and they had this rolltop covered in thatch and it was highly decorated with all these stalks sticking out of it http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1490619141058815717rIONkQ and the first three people either fell off or were eliminated at that fence. It was fence 2 on the course. My horse was pretty brave but I can see that fence backing off a good bunch of horses.

I don't want an easy course but for a starter event a course that helps the horse develop confidence make me more likely to attend. A natural fence for the first fence that you can ride up to and a course that makes sense it it's development from easy to hard as you go along.

I love the terrain and there are so many options to use uphill and downhill fences and of course the light to dark options as well. I love exposing the horses to those types of questions early on in their careers but using inviting fences that will help you if they make a greenie mistake.

Would love to see some smaller banks and ditches for the greenies incorporated into the course. I have never seen a ditch used even at Novice so it would be fun to have one.

I always love the stadium and find that it rides well and is nicely decorated. Footing is excellent, nice layout, good food and great volunteers.

I suppose my other thinking on why entries have been low is that this event is a starter trial and can be a bit challenging really requiring you to sit up and ride. They do use the terrain, light to dark questions, road crossings and the horses are unable to see any buddies which can result in some behavioral issues. For whatever reason I see more people have issues on this course than many of the other local starter trials. I do believe it is because they aren't being taught how to ride properly or answer the questions being asked so they just don't know what to do when it shows up on the course.

I think I would dumb down the intro level to make that a bit easier but leave it a bit challenging at BN and Novice. Maybe satisfy more people that way? The intro has ridden more like a BN in the past and many people don't want to do elementary but they aren't quite ready for BN either. Make the intro softer to fill that gap? Just thinking out loud.

BeverlyAStrauss
Jan. 13, 2010, 09:22 AM
Thanks Lucky Star- we actually toyed with running a CT with Training as well as the HT but opted for straight dressage - we were concerned about the scheduling aspect more than anything else...Once we get Springfest under our belts, we may look at that CT option for Harvestfest this fall, for riders who want to try a bigger course before the season ends.

BeverlyAStrauss
Jan. 13, 2010, 09:29 AM
Jess, I am glad you saw this, I was going to email you! I agree, the xc courses have not had a lot of flow and there are some "UhOhWhatsThat" fences esp early- yet I found the Novice to be log, log, log, another log, after you jump the red coopy thing. I agree about the ditches, and have already tackled that- there is a nice "dip type of ditch" (similar to Plantation) we can use, and there is a Novice ditch but it is really deep and I hope to fill it in a bit so it is not so scary- or build a new one. Someone at Fair Hill thought the xc fences were over decorated adding to the uh-oh factor so we are gonna fix that too.

circusponydreams
Jan. 13, 2010, 09:48 AM
I am in the area and just getting back into eventing. When I was thinking about where to go for a friendly starter trial last year, my coach said that St. Augustine has some spooky fences and recommended that my horse and I go someplace else first. I had planned to go to St. Augustine's fall Derby, since we had gotten a bit more experience by then, but the weather intervened.

I think Olde Hope really does a great job with starter trials. Everything is in the same general area, and the courses are super straightforward, but with some variety to the fences. For the Elementary and Intro, I think it's better to err on the side of too easy, since one half of the partnership is likely to be green and maybe nervous. For horses and rider just starting out, you want a competition to be welcoming and fun - there is lots of room to move up when it's not challenging enough anymore.

scubed
Jan. 13, 2010, 09:55 AM
I have never shown there, but I know it makes a difference to me to know I am going somewhere where a licensed designer and TD have looked over the course. While you probably don't want to pay a designer to completely design a course, maybe you could pay to have one come out and look over things, make suggestions, etc and then have someone come take a look when it is almost ready (you could even invite some rider rep types that live near to walk course and point out their concerns). Probably better at a new (or newly revamped) event to err a little on the side of too easy.

Ltc4h
Jan. 13, 2010, 10:19 AM
Alot of riders aren't prepared or don't know the rules[neither do their instructors] at these starters-there are other threads on that.
I seriously would NOT offer a leadline, the few extra bucks isn't worth it.

Ajierene
Jan. 13, 2010, 10:39 AM
Alot of riders aren't prepared or don't know the rules[neither do their instructors] at these starters-there are other threads on that.
I seriously would NOT offer a leadline, the few extra bucks isn't worth it.

Leadline is VERY popular at Olde Hope. If it is run the way they run it, or similarly, then it will be fine. At Olde Hope, leadline is completely enclosed. The jumping is less than poles on the ground. The dressage is done in a fenced in arena. It is very safe and inviting and Jane has found that it offers the younger siblings of the other competitors something to do at shows.

Benson
Jan. 13, 2010, 11:44 AM
FYI, Bev, Tuckahoe Pony Club has it on their schedule, so will be there! Thanks for the PC discount:)

Teams are fun, especially for re-riders, who can con their friends into going and feeling part of the fun, instead of alone and quaking from fear at doing the first dressage test they've done in 400 years.

Maybe
Jan. 13, 2010, 12:58 PM
Bev,

I think that is great.... :)

I agree about what others are saying about the x-c. It looked like the course went where the jumps were convenient, rather than any purpose. With all that great turf that always holds up well, don't leave the baby logs in the woods path and have horses sliding over them. Even if the course is a bit on the short side distance wise. And NO metal drainage pipe jumps!!

Stadium was a bit disorganized last year. No one could decide what the distance should be in the in and out. Get someone like Sally Cousins to come down and "proof" everything if you don't use a recognized course designer, or TD.

BeverlyAStrauss
Jan. 13, 2010, 01:22 PM
Wow, what great feedback! Keep it comin'!

I was one of those "How long is this combination supposed to be" riders in stadium! I went to Sally's just to school combos and come up with a strategy (we had a nice eensy two at the event-it was either that or blast through (or maybe by) in one. Not for my old war horse. I am so NOT a metal pipe person, have to work on that one. The pre-elem is offered by popular demand, we have some young riders who are not comfortable off a lead and/or need to be enclosed.

paintgirl
Jan. 13, 2010, 08:18 PM
I am a re-rider on a green intro(2'3") level horse. I would attend your event if it is friendly with appealing jumps. I attend every one at Olde Hope and Fair Hill,find Plantation BN slightly too big a move up(they have no intro) have not gone to St Aug. because I feared some wildly decorated jumps might back off my timid mare. I would, however, appreciate miniature versions of "real" questons- ditch, water, bank , skinny,real terrain etc, all of which we practice but have not found much in competitions. We are not ready for novice, but are way beyond elem., and are somewhat bored. I love Fair Hill intro level course, but it is somewhat boring. Good luck with your event!

Meredith Clark
Jan. 13, 2010, 08:34 PM
I really like St Augustine I got to school there for the first time with my OTTB this fall.

I have watched competitions there before (my sister rode there 2 or 3 years ago) but I never realized how many courses they have and how far into the woods it goes. I guess they used to run big people HTs there so there's some cool old jumps.

I know it's a Pony Club that host the events but I wish that people wouldn't forget about 4-H. I didn't do pony club when I was little (I didn't know of them and I also rode western as well as english) but I always was frustrated when horse shows offered a "Pony Club" discount and not 4-H, they work really hard and are good horse people too and maybe they would be willing to join PC as well if they were reached out too.

Can you tell that I resent never being a PC-er ? :lol:

Also... I hate when dressage isn't marked well. I did a starter event recently and on top of being nervous and on a horse who had never been to a show before.. I couldn't find my dressage ring! The rings weren't marked, the judges weren't there and no one seemed to know what was going on. It was hard warming up and trying to get ready when I had no idea where I was supposed to go or when. Having a dressage Stewart can really help things run smoothly.

It's just one of those simple things that can ruin the start of your day!

Meredith Clark
Jan. 13, 2010, 08:40 PM
oh and I LOVE the TB award!!! I plan on winning that :lol:

retreadeventer
Jan. 13, 2010, 08:49 PM
Hey Bev, this is great news! Thanks so much for taking this on, and good luck! If I may, I would like to pretty much follow along what Jess has said -- more flow on the courses, just a little more thought to what fences are where.

One thing I think about with a green horse or rider is where and how the start is placed so that the first fence is inviting, framed, and has a good takeoff where the horse is encouraged to go forward. Sometimes the first fence is facing the woods away from warmup, etc. and boy is it hard.

I think saving yourself some time and don't decorate too much! Mulch the ground lines, brush - that's enough. Not too wild! I ride as many horses on all levels of this event as anyone -- I don't think I've missed entering one in three or four years -- and I just love the footing and the kids and the ambiance.

One more thing - please please please move that log jump after the water. It's off stride and rides awkwardly. And, I really would like to see some of the training stuff beefed up a little or moved around some, and having the N-T option is a great idea - option the T dressage, and the T stadium but allow the XC to stay at the upper end of novice - great idea and good way for those who want to move up to get a feel for that before a recognized event...

As far as pumping entries, just get the word out early and keep the website up to date and clear - if you can figure out a way to allow entries online or by email that would super - very convenient and might bring in more entries. Love the event and glad to see you guys working on it!:)

Holly

Meredith Clark
Jan. 13, 2010, 08:53 PM
As far as pumping entries, just get the word out early and keep the website up to date and clear - if you can figure out a way to allow entries online or by email that would super - very convenient and might bring in more entries. Love the event and glad to see you guys working on it!:)

Holly

I forgot that.. I don't like the webpage at all! It's just really confusing and before I knew about the horse trial I wasn't sure why I was on a Pony Club's website and if i could even enter.

Also at one time (can't remember what event it was for) the date for the event or derby or something was different on the home page than it was on the event's own page. Just confusing!

Maybe it could have it's own direct page

www.StAugHorseTrials.com or something ya know?

BeverlyAStrauss
Jan. 13, 2010, 09:49 PM
You are all so awesome to take your time to put all this down- and believe me, we are taking it all seriously! Great points-

As far as the website, we are ON it. The site is being redesigned as we speak and should be operational in the next week or two- Barb from Website Design and Images is on it (she did our MAHR site), and I am going to maintain it-- and yes, we are gonna have online entry and payment options- for the events and any xc schoolings and clinics. Worked on ads today and got all stuff to the various calendars (Horse of Del Valley, Marketer, Equiery)(It is a good thing it has been too cold to show rescue horses I guess) Also have paper prize lists and entry forms in the works to take to PC Quiz, Olde Hope, tack shops, etc.

And Meredith- if there are any 4Hers who want to come, they can have the discount too! I will see if I can get the entry form revised.....a good friend of mine ran the 4H at UD for awhile but I really don't know a whole lot about how active the clubs are around here......Can't wait to see your guy. I hope to have my job done so on THE day, I can ride my Wish horse........but I doubt we would be in the running for the award just bc he isn't convinced dressage is something an old stake horse should be doing.......

Keep the feedback coming!

Meredith Clark
Jan. 13, 2010, 09:54 PM
And Meredith- if there are any 4Hers who want to come, they can have the discount too! I will see if I can get the entry form revised.....a good friend of mine ran the 4H at UD for awhile but I really don't know a whole lot about how active the clubs are around here......Can't wait to see your guy. I hope to have my job done so on THE day, I can ride my Wish horse........but I doubt we would be in the running for the award just bc he isn't convinced dressage is something an old stake horse should be doing.......

Keep the feedback coming!

Awesome!!

Also please let us know how we can volunteer. There's always that chance of abscesses or tummy aches and we won't be able to actually compete!

BeverlyAStrauss
Jan. 13, 2010, 10:04 PM
That will be on the site too- we will have a volunteer list and times, and give volunteers choice of a free xc schooling session or a $10 gift card -thinking iTunes or Wawa- if you prefer (esp for those non riding siblings who HAVE to come to the event ;-)

Jleegriffith
Jan. 14, 2010, 08:00 AM
Retread- Yep, hate that first fence heading towards the dark woods sort of going downhill. No more of that please! My back still hurts from having to ride one horse so much in the back seat to that damn red coop heading towards the woods for fence #1 in novice.

Agree about the log coming out after the water. The water jump is a bit murky and soft so it doesn't promote a forward ride and then you have to jump up the bank and the striding just never works out to the log. You can get it done but not easily.

I would love to see a better footing added to the water jump. It is very muddy and deep which isn't great for giving the greenies confidence but of course with limited funds the option for a run thru of the water is still great.

The facility is top notch and I can't wait to see what you guys come up with. Let me know if you need help! I try to attend every year and would would help spread to word about the event.

ottb
Jan. 14, 2010, 08:23 AM
I agree with most of the previous comments. Just reinforcing my take - they haven't done a lot of updating over the past several years so the track seems like it's forced by where they have the permanent fences. And some of the fences are older or too big and can't be used. I go often for schooling and HTs. I like the place and would volunteer to help change the track, add new fences, etc.

I know I'm in the minority, but I'll put it out there. I'd be happy to see T at the HT.

kevin

Daisey-Bogie
Jan. 14, 2010, 08:23 AM
I want to certainly attend. As someone who has schooled there before, I loved the steps up the banks, the ditches, etc.. the natural fences. I have ridden at plantation before many times. I just took my baby, 3 to the elemntary for the experience of being out, etc... the course was way tooo easy, log after log, but when I showed her the beg - nov, just too much, they went from logs to wide coops, etc.. I would love to see more of a bridge between the 2. Enough of logs. I can't wait to see this. Will you have a an adult re learning to ride catagory.

Toomanycats
Jan. 14, 2010, 08:49 AM
I will echo what others said about the xc - trappy and uninviting in the past. I only competed there once and never went back. The first fence on novice the year I competed was so scary that not only did it cause problems for the novice horses, it spooked and caused stops for the BN horses because the fences were right next to each other. I seem to remember big old nasty round bales of rotten hay being part of the fence. There were also some questionable approaches and fences that I felt were inappropriate either for the level or for where they were placed on the course. All I remember about stadium is that it was way below novice height, which always irritates me - if I enter at novice, I expect to see novice height fences.

Do speak with Sally Cousins if you can - I schooled there with her last year and she had some very strong opinions on some of the fences. The water and ditch were 2 of them that I remember specifically.

On xc, give me some nice inviting fences to get my horse galloping forward and into a rhythm, then start asking me some questions. And if you ask a tough question, make sure there is a "breather fence" afterwards where we can relax and my horse can be rewarded with a simple fence after toughing out the last question. I think Plantation does a great job with this on their courses, so think about how their courses flow when you start designing yours.

Love the idea of having some flagged training options on xc. I hope to move my guy up to training this year, so that definitely appeals to me. I don't really care if the stadium and dressage are at training level - I can work on that at home or at combined tests or jumper shows, but there are few opportunities to show my horse training level xc questions in a competition setting. I would also be interested in a true training level and have some friends who would be, too.

Highflyer
Jan. 14, 2010, 10:02 AM
I agree with most of what's been said about the courses--I can remember doing BN a couple of years ago, and the first six fences were all teeny logs, but spaced so that you never got a good approach/ rhythm. I don't think the red coop or white rolltops are inappropriate but they need to be toward the end. This is the first event of the year for most everyone, so I like the idea of having a softer course with harder options. And I love the idea of asking Sally for input--as someone else said, she has definitely been there, both schooling and riding, and with so many levels of riders/ horses, that she can give you a lot of ideas. If you can't get her (since I know she is in Aiken a lot this time of year) Pam Weiddeman would be another local choice--she does DVCTA. But Sally would be my preference.

I love the idea of having T, even if it's a beefed up N with a couple of T questions. There are so few unrecognized T's out there, and none at the beginning of the season.

BeverlyAStrauss
Jan. 14, 2010, 03:28 PM
I dont think that running an unrecognized T this spring will be an option, we need to see how it goes but will offer some T xc options on the Novice course. We appreciate all the feedback, have a lot of good suggestions to work on......

retreadeventer
Jan. 14, 2010, 03:45 PM
Well, I am dating myself here, but I actually was the water jump judge a couple of times back when the event was recognized - that was a WHILE ago - and the log jump on the upbank out of the water (on the left) was not permanent then as it is now. It was a moveable coop. It was set for preliminary as I recall. The preliminary actually rode the left side of the water. Intermediate rode the right side. The water jump was deeper. The coop was moved for training level, and the training level horses did the left side sans coop. I think there was also something up the hill away from the intermediate side, too, a bounce or related question that was also not very nice. One had to be very lucky to get the strides right as it just didn't fit well. I remember watching the horses jumping these from the back where we were seated and they would twist and land on all four and do horrible things to get clear over them. Does anyone remember?

I do not know when the permanent log was put in - a few years ago. It was not always there for the recognized horse trials as I recall. The beauty of the moveable coop was you could get it on stride. The permanent thing is sort of off stride. When I was jump judging there one year, (for the recognized) we had three falls in one day on the left side, on the bank up. It got slimy and the horses fell when they slipped jumping up. The horses who made it went slowly and trotted the water. If you went in guns blazing you came to grief. Just from what I remember.

In addition I do remember there being a really nice downhill fence on the route down to the water; it forced you to rock your horse back off his hocks and stopped the headlong plunge down the hill to the water jump.
It was not huge but it was rounded and easy. I cannot remember exactly what it was, it was solid, maybe a logpile no longer there? I think that would be a good question for training level there as an option because it's a wide area with a lot of room to easily point a horse to the side and just go straight down to the water. Anybody remember that or am I wrong about that logpile? You could actually jump it up and downhill.

And I also remember a very big question in the woods, an uphill fort type bank with ditch in front, very nasty thing coming out of the woods into the field on the very north side of the field. I had to jump that going up one time and down another time, but haven't trucked back there to see if it still is in there or not. I just remember banging stifles on it from being underpowered going up as I mis-read the approach - it was less downhill than it walked -- I was counting on momentum from coming down the slope and got there and didn't have any momentum! Oops! Good pony to climb out tho!

BeverlyAStrauss
Jan. 14, 2010, 04:06 PM
That log fence several strides after the water was inspected and measured and OK'd by TDs back when it was a recognized event......that would be a novice question IF it was used- I have ridden it and it rode trot up trot trot canter jump- my guy isn't quite jumping up out of water out of stride and on yet.....

There are a lot of nicely built inviting, moveable fences, so a necessity is to place those well to encourage horses and riders, esp early in the season.....

eventridermd
Jan. 15, 2010, 11:20 AM
Bev,

I think it is great that you are going to be cochairing and making changes to the event. I believe they are in need of it. I have been competing there for several years now from elementary through novice and will agree with other commentaries that some of the fences are innappropriate for the levels competing. I recall the event last spring and I was talking too a few of the Intro and BN competitors and they all made mention that if the course continued to be this difficult they were not coming back to the event.

We all understand you have to include some challenges on the course but not so difficult that riders are falling off, horses are stopping etc. This is certainly not the way to build confidence especially for a new rider or a young horse.

I also would like to add that in years past the SAPC members have had the advantage of riding the course the week just before the event. This is not fair if we are competing against them. I would suggest if they are allowed to continue this practice then there should be a division for PC members only.

Thank you again for taking on this task!

BeverlyAStrauss
Jan. 15, 2010, 11:37 AM
There are two OPEN schoolings on 3/21 and 4/4 (as well as more later in the season) so EVERYbody is welcome- as soon as the new website is up and running this will be on there, and you will be able to enter and pay online. In the past the schoolings were always open but just not well publicized so the pony clubbers and local people knew about them but not everyone else. We have sent the schooling dates and event info to the Marketer, Horse of Del Valley, and the Equiery calendars- so they should be included.

SEPowell
Jan. 15, 2010, 12:21 PM
It sounds like things are happening at St Augustine and all in the direction of good!

I went a few years ago and had lots of fun and no problems, but I hunt and my horses see many different fences and terrain; a ditch, a stride and a jump are part of the hunting package.

I haven't thought seriously about eventing in 20 years and I don't even know what I don't know about courses and their design; reading this thread has been interesting and enlightening.

I plan to enter St Augustine this year and hope to bring a beginner novice and a novice horse (if I have the energy to ride two). So I'm looking forward to returning and seeing the changes you make and again enjoying the lovely community I found last time I attended St Augustine.

Meredith Clark
Jan. 15, 2010, 11:00 PM
I have ridden at plantation before many times. I just took my baby, 3 to the elemntary for the experience of being out, etc... the course was way tooo easy, log after log, but when I showed her the beg - nov, just too much, they went from logs to wide coops, etc.. I would love to see more of a bridge between the 2. Enough of logs. I can't wait to see this. Will you have a an adult re learning to ride catagory.

I totally agrree with your assessment of Plantation!


There are two OPEN schoolings on 3/21 and 4/4 (as well as more later in the season) so EVERYbody is welcome- as soon as the new website is up and running this will be on there, and you will be able to enter and pay online. In the past the schoolings were always open but just not well publicized so the pony clubbers and local people knew about them but not everyone else. We have sent the schooling dates and event info to the Marketer, Horse of Del Valley, and the Equiery calendars- so they should be included.

yay!

broodmare
Jan. 16, 2010, 08:06 PM
We haven't been for a few years, but we loved that event. I think up here in the Uville area it tends to fall off of people's radar a bit. The people that ran it were great, I liked the course. It was really fun. Many unrecognised events (Plantation comes to mind) have some trouble with the courses being inconsistent for the level. it is nice if the fences have a coherent level of difficulty. But I don't remeber (the mind dims) that it was a problem at St A.

I hope you get lots of entries .

retreadeventer
Jan. 17, 2010, 07:35 AM
Thanks for the update on the schooling days. Just a reminder to those who may not have been there before...this is a privately owned piece of property and those of us who have been there before are careful to pick up after our horses in the parking area, not leave piles of garbage or bedding behind (it's a farmed field) and take all with us when we leave so it's as clean as it was before everyone parked there. I deeply appreciate the opportunity to ride there, it's a real treasure, and every time I go there I feel it's really a treat to have permission to be on that beautiful piece of ground.

kcrubin
Jan. 17, 2010, 08:03 AM
I have had a blast at both St Augustine and Plantation starters. I always feel so lucky to live in our area. It's great to get folks input and update the courses. Retread I definitely remember the recognized events there. I remember Buck falling in the water and man it was cold that day. After that they called it Buck's dunk or something on the xc map.

I think getting someone like Sally, PD, Boyd, etc to walk around and give you ideas on fence placement would be a great idea. Everyone's probably south right now.

kcr

BeverlyAStrauss
Jan. 17, 2010, 08:11 AM
Retread, thanks for that reminder- that goes with any venue any of us attend, anywhere. As riders, we are fortunate to have landowners that welcome us on to their properties.

In the past, recognized TDs have inspected the course, and last year Danny Warrington went around and did the job (he even measured that in and out in SJ).....so it is not like there hasn't been good input-but we are going to make the course more flowing and encouraging. There are so many well built inviting fences that are moveable, it's all good!