What GI changes occur when a horse gets into a bag of grain???

[TrueColours]

I got a call yesterday from a client whose youngster got into a bag of grain last weekend and died from colic.

Apparently the feed guy left 3 bags out that were accessible to the horses and when the owner found this out several hours later when she went to the barn, one bag was already eaten and these were 40 kgs bags, so 85-90 lbs of grain in total and I am not sure how many horses consumed that or if he was the only one. I do know he is the only one that colicked and died.

I have never had this happen (thank God!) and I thought founder would be the main concern and the one that would be obvious first

Apparently when she arrived he still looked and acted normal and it was only awhile later when she discovered the empty feed bag that had been ripped open, that she found out what happened and by then it was too late

For everyone's info - what immediate steps would you need to take before the vet arrives to try and minimize the impact and damage as much as possible? I am thinking Banamine, standing them out in the snow or hosing their feet with cold water and copious amounts of mineral oil to start

What physiological changes would occur in their gut and throughout their system when this much grain was dumped in there all at once? And is oil even enough to try and flush it out before the acids in the stomach start to work to break it down?

I feel so awful for her but I also think with that much grain consumed and that much time that had passed, there really wasnt anything she would have been able to do to save him ...

[M. O'Connor]

I just googled, and couldn't find a specific answer to your question right off the bat...

Sorry this happened! I would expect that the reaction would differ from horse to horse and would depend on the individual's metabolism and the type of feed consumed (higher sugar content would lead to more problems).

We used to have a Houdini pony that staged regular breakouts, making a beeline for the feed bins (which were otherwise kept well out of reach). She had a decided knack for finding them, and once she was through with them, she had no qualms about moving on to the chicken bins. It was usually the squawking of the chickens that alerted us to her criminal activity.

One would THINK that a Cushings, foundery pony would have suffered SOME ill consequense from this behavior. I'm sure that she succeeded many times in consuming well over what could be considered a 'safe' amount of feed, yet never suffered in any way whatsoever. Granted, most of our feeds were not "high test," so that's probably why she got away with it.

[cloudyandcallie]

The first call should be to your vet. He/she will tell you what to do. And what you should have "on hand" just in case.

My vet hospital has vets on call 24/7. For just such emergencies.

[bird4416]

When I was a kid, a horse got into the feed room at summer camp and ate a bunch of sweet feed. He ended up being put down due to foundering. The vet came out and mineral oiled him but it was too late to prevent the founder. You have to act fast when this happens and I'm not sure what you can do until the vet arrives except keep horse quiet and calm.

[MistyBlue]

It will depend from horse to horse. Some will colic, some will founder, some will do both and some might not show any affects at all. (although that last set is probably the most rare, it does happen though)
I agree with calling a vet and asking what you should have on hand and what protocol you should start when this happens while waiting for the vet to get there. Although icing the feet would probably be my first thought, as a possible preventative against founder.

Also decide ahead of time which horses are surgical candidates and which aren't...helps to make this decision ahead of time so you're not trying to make it during a very scary and emotional emergency later on if the worst does happen.

Sorry for the loss of your client's horse. A horse getting into the feedroom/feeds is right up there on my list of Disasters I Freak Out Over.

[Ghazzu]

The short version--if they don't die of gastric rupture, a large quantity of starch makes it into the hind gut, totally upsetting the normal microfloral balance there, and usually causing a massive overgrowth of lactate-producing organisms, which drops the pH and further upsets the apple cart.
Massive die-off of microflora results in endotoxemia, and sequela including laminitis and death.

[JB]

Get and keep on hand at all times UAA Gel (Valley Vet is the only place I know you can get it). One of the first things a good vet would do is not only use mineral oil, but tube activated charcoal, which is what the UAA Gel is. That will help absorb the toxins that are caused by all that grain fermenting in the hind gut, which is what causes colic and laminitis.

Get the horse exercising, at least walking around. Not hard work - the last thing you want is for that grain to sit even longer. But light exercise, several times a day, helps with the insulin spikes and other issues that can cause the laminitis.

Yes, getting the feet cold, for as long as possible, for a few days, can help if laminitis is going to present.

Banamine or bute according to the vet's direction - be VERY careful about using them together, as that can cause permanent kidney damage.

Then pray.

[pj]

For everyone's info - what immediate steps would you need to take before the vet arrives to try and minimize the impact and damage as much as possible? I am thinking Banamine, standing them out in the snow or hosing their feet with cold water and copious amounts of mineral oil to start

...

Unless you are experienced with tubing a horse please don't try the mineral oil.
You could end up with much worse problems (and immediate) than you had to start with and I doubt you could get anywhere near enough in the horse any other way.

[M. O'Connor]

The short version--if they don't die of gastric rupture, a large quantity of starch makes it into the hind gut, totally upsetting the normal microfloral balance there, and usually causing a massive overgrowth of lactate-producing organisms, which drops the pH and further upsets the apple cart.
Massive die-off of microflora results in endotoxemia, and sequela including laminitis and death.

Thanks, Ghazzu!

Is there a reference site you can recommend for an in-depth explanation of that process (other than going to vet school!)? I was perhaps using the wrong search terms (or maybe misspelling them).

[appaloosalady]

Unless you are experienced with tubing a horse please don't try the mineral oil.
You could end up with much worse problems (and immediate) than you had to start with and I doubt you could get anywhere near enough in the horse any other way.

Actually, if you have a large syringe it doesn't take long to get a good amount (1/2 gal) of mineral oil into a horse. I do it for mild colics here.

[Ghazzu]

Thanks, Ghazzu!

Is there a reference site you can recommend for an in-depth explanation of that process (other than going to vet school!)? I was perhaps using the wrong search terms (or maybe misspelling them).

This http://www.uq.edu.au/~apcpolli/downloads/chrispollitt_LABandlaminitis.pdf (http://www.uq.edu.au/%7Eapcpolli/downloads/chrispollitt_LABandlaminitis.pdf)

may be of interest.

Most of the recent stuff published is in the context of the pathogenesis of laminitis, so maybe laminitis + carbohydrates would bring you some useful hits.

[purplnurpl]

My first horse was a freak of nature.
She was a crazy red headed Trakehner.

She was the master at opening stall doors.
When I as in NJ she would get out all the time and eat everything she could find.

One time at our farm a few years back she broke into the barn and ate a bag of grass seed AND a bag of cow range cubes.
When we found her she was standing in the barn isle (as big as a tick!) happy and asleep with her bottom lip hanging and dripping with drool.

other than gas she was totally fine.
wack job.

[MsM]

My horse suffered a grain overdose at a boarding stable. This happened overnight and I didnt find out until I arrived the following afternoon (long story - obviously no longer my barn!). I called the vet who was on another call and anyway felt that it was too late to tube and I should give him low-dose banamine and watch for signs of laminitis.
What I wish I had known then: Laminitis signs may not be the first signs of trouble. Early the next morning he walked soundly but seemed depressed. I took his temperature and it was 105! :eek: Endotoxemia. Called another vet. It was a hard battle for eight days of intensive care before he recovered from the endotoxemia and colic without developing laminitis.

[Ghazzu]

Actually, if you have a large syringe it doesn't take long to get a good amount (1/2 gal) of mineral oil into a horse. I do it for mild colics here.

I suspect the point of the previous poster was that it can be risky attempting to orally dose mineral oil because of the possibility of aspiration...

[TrueColours]

pj - I would never attempt to insert a nasal tube and administer the oil that way. As mentioned by appaloosalady I would use a 60 ml syringe and start to syringe as much as possible that way

Ghazzu - so from what you are saying, he could have well spontaneously ruptured internally from the grain overload and thats what killed him ...

From this comment of yours:

a large quantity of starch makes it into the hind gut, totally upsetting the normal microfloral balance there, and usually causing a massive overgrowth of lactate-producing organisms, which drops the pH and further upsets the apple cart.
Massive die-off of microflora results in endotoxemia, and sequela including laminitis and death.

How fast would all of this occur? From what I understand, this colt got into the feed sometime in the late morning / early afternoon, owner came late afternoon, didnt find anything amiss until a little bit later, so lets say 4-5 hours from when he started to eat the grain until he died. Would a domino effect happen that quickly with everything you've described above from the initial bite of grain to death?

[pj]

Actually, if you have a large syringe it doesn't take long to get a good amount (1/2 gal) of mineral oil into a horse. I do it for mild colics here.

Good to know. I'd always been told that mineral oil has no taste and therefore was very easy to choke on as they didn't always know when to swallow.

[mustangtrailrider]

PJ, that statement makes no sense to me at all....

Water has no taste....yet they know when to swallow.


Please explain!

[pj]

PJ, that statement makes no sense to me at all....

Water has no taste....yet they know when to swallow.


Please explain!


The way it was explained to me was anything they are drinking normally there is a swallow reflex. If you pour mineral oil OR water (i guess) with no taste down them since they don't taste it they don't always know when to swallow.

[birdsong]

I read a report produced by Vets, I believe from some other country who were doing tests to determine exactly how long before laminitis would set in after consuming a large quantity. The tests were done on animals that were to be put down anyway . They were humanely put down and then examined.

I seem to recall that the entire process took only a very few hours until results occurred.

I'll see if I can find it again.

I also have a Houdini who seems to find something to consume after his escape.

[Ghazzu]

How fast would all of this occur? From what I understand, this colt got into the feed sometime in the late morning / early afternoon, owner came late afternoon, didnt find anything amiss until a little bit later, so lets say 4-5 hours from when he started to eat the grain until he died. Would a domino effect happen that quickly with everything you've described above from the initial bite of grain to death?

Gastric rupture would be relatively soon after the gorging.
Endooxemia/acidosis could certainly manifest in 4-5 hours--small intestinal transit time in the horse is 3-4 hours, more or less. A high concentrate meal would likely be on the shorter end.

[sketcher]

I had a mare crash through her stall door and get into the grain. She ate about 40 lbs. at about 10am. By 5pm she was showing signs of colic. I walked her through the night, non-stop.

Even with banamine and mineral oil there was no stopping the belly ache. If I left her alone at all she wanted to crumple to the ground and roll. The colic started to resolve about 5 or 6 am, by 8am she had a laminitic stance and pulses. We stood her in an ice bath for about 14 hours straight and then the poor thing was wrapped a 4 feet in pads and loaded on a trailer and brought to a new home.

She was not my horse, I took her as a favor to a green owner who bought her inexperienced daughter a green horse - she wanted to give her to me and at the time I lold her I could not take on the financial commitment (unexpected emergency was the risk I did not want to take on at the time!) I could not explain to her what was happening to her horse, she just didn't get it and said it was in god's hands - umm it was actually in my hands, along with the vet bill that she stuck me with. This was a day or two before my wedding, company flying in ect... the mare ended up fine, no rotation, to this day I wish I had dragged her into court for the vet bill and damage to my barn...not to mention lack of sleep and extreme stress spent saving her horse.

[Cindy's Warmbloods]

I had heard the same as PJ from my vet and was told to put vanilla extract into the mineral oil to avoid them aspirating it into their lungs since it has no taste. So I always do this now.
Whatever you do don't ever use vegetable/corn oil, made that mistake about 20yrs ago (the only time I have had a horse get into grain) when I didn't have mineral oil on hand and got in big heck from my vet. Apparently it only compounds the problem if they have overeaten grain (can't recall what it does exactly but do recall getting in heck for it ;-) Atleast the horse was fine inspite of my well intentioned administrations.

[JB]

corn/veggie/flax/olive/etc oil is digestible

mineral oil is not, which is why it serves the purpose of lubricating things to help get them passing

[TrueColours]

corn/veggie/flax/olive/etc oil is digestible

mineral oil is not, which is why it serves the purpose of lubricating things to help get them passing

I didnt know that (well I knew - obviously - that the first oils were diestible, but didnt know the reason mineral oil was used was because it was not ...) and I would have used corn oil in a pinch as well. Thanks so much for some very useful info that can be filed away in case I ever (hopefully not!) need it ...

[Ghazzu]

Mineral oil is less than great in terms of moving impactions.
It's main use in the grain overload situation is to help decrease absorption by coating the gut lumen.

[AKB]

Is there a standard protocol in terms of treating grain overload, and is there evidence (e.g. published studies) that it works? We had a grain overload a number of years ago. My horse broke the feed room door and ate over 50lbs of a beet pulp based grain. The vet we were using (no longer our vet) said not to worry about it and did not come and give him anything. Her only caution was to call if he became lame or had increased pulses in his feet. I don't know if she felt that treatment with oil and banamine was not effective or if she just didn't know what to do.

[JB]

AKB, I'd have fired the vet on the spot too!

Beet pulp-based is certainly a lot safer than grain-based but it still depends on how much grain is in there. And, 50lb is still a lot to have eaten, though it of course depends on how long that took.

She didn't know what to do, obviously. She was a "reactive" vet instead of a proactive one in this case. By the time it's apparent laminitis has developed, you're on the defensive.

Getting and keeping the feet cold is one of the current recommendations to help ward off all, or some of the effects of laminitis. Bute seems to be debatable in its early role in helping do the same.