Odd Head/Jaw Conformation: what may have caused this?

[Heinz 57]

My mare has an interesting abnormality as far as the left side of her head/jaw goes - when viewed head on, her jaw bone appears to angle outwards towards the bottom/back on that side, and sticks out maybe 1/2-1" farther than the right side. When viewed from a side profile there is a flat or hollow portion at the rear vertical edge, as well. You can sort of see what I'm referring to, here: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/erin7264/img_1135.jpg

If you look closely at where the throatlatch crosses the jaw - it is actually properly adjusted, but the strap falls behind into the throatlatch area because of the flat/hollow spot.

I don't know her history past the previous owner, aside from a few vague details - and nothing that would explain this. It doesn't affect her ability to eat/drink, nor has it ever affected her ability to work. Her teeth are scheduled to be done next month and I'm curious to see what the vet has to say about it. It isn't an extremely obvious fault - in fact, not one that you notice unless you look and feel closely. It has never affected her placings in conformation classes, either.

Any ideas as to what may have caused this?

[JB]

Does she have trouble flexing at the poll? I ask because the top muscles of her neck aren't well-developed, like she can't flex and come through over her top muscles.

I'd have xrays done - not sure if there's just 1 angle that would show you what you need to know - and work with a good chiropractor. A horse's head can be on crooked, literally, and still function normally in the grand scheme of things, but not be able to finesse things, like poll flexion.

You may find it's from an old break that didn't heal correctly.

[Heinz 57]

Oh no... no problems with poll flexion here at all. If anything, she gets tense and over flexes or twists her head. She's been seen and adjusted by a chiro, although not in a few months, with nothing really notable. She's pretty flexible, and is very good at carrot stretches - especially the nose to chest and nose to shoulder ones.

If it was broken at some point, that may explain her occasional tenseness about the bit undersaddle when she is an otherwise VERY laid back horse.

[JB]

Don't take offense - just commenting and asking questions to learn more :)

Flexing nose to chest isn't using the correct posture you'd use for riding. It's a great stretch, but it's "breaking" the neck in the wrong place for riding, if that makes sense.

Getting tense and over-flexing and/or twisting makes me think she can't comfortable flex her poll correctly. Do you have any pictures that show what you feel is her working correctly?

when you do her carrot stretches, does she keep her head vertical, or does she twist it so one ear is lower (sometimes by a lot) than the other?

[Heinz 57]

I'm well aware of what correct 'posture' is, especially related to being 'on the bit' vs. BTV. I apologize for not clarifying, but I wasn't sure of the context you were referring to when you asked about her ability to flex at the poll. "Flexing at the poll" means different things to different people, especially across disciplines. The particular carrot stretches I mentioned are good for tightness through the poll, when done correctly - this is why I mentioned them, as I have never noticed any tightness or resistance from her in that area (ground or u/s).

Unfortunately, I have very few pictures of her under saddle. She's only been going u/s since March, and while we did attend quite a few shows last year most of the pictures are candid/standing shots. I've got one of her rearing, but I'm pretty sure that isn't the view you're looking for. :)

At rest she does not twist/tilt her head, nor does she do it with stretching. When she twists her head under saddle, it is an active twist and is not constant. It only appears if I've introduced a new concept or we're working on something she finds especially challenging, and is only for a step or two. She is more than capable of travelling and carrying herself straight and working through her back, as evidenced by the 69% we received on our last dressage test.

Like I said, she's been seen by a chiro and there was nothing of any great interest in her poll/head/neck area. I hope I don't sound too argumentative, I just wanted to clarify!

[EqTrainer]

My guess is that she had an injury to it and this is the result. One of my friends horses broke the back of his jaw - actually right about the same place - when he was 3. It sequestrumed and had to have surgery on it. He now has a "hole" there and a lump above it.

[sdlbredfan]

Actually, no it is not, your throatlatch is too tight. ('If you look closely at where the throatlatch crosses the jaw - it is actually properly adjusted').

With regard to comment '"Flexing at the poll" means different things to different people, especially across disciplines', actually no it does not.
The poll is a specific anatomic spot of the horse's body, just behind the ears. Regardless of discipline, flexing at the poll means exactly that.

That is great news that you have the Vet coming soon to do teeth. I hope you will share with us what the Vet says, so we all can learn from this!

[Heinz 57]

Excuse me?

I'm pretty sure I know how to adjust a throatlatch, and no... it wasn't too tight. I can fit my fist between her jaw and the throatlatch. You're welcome to come take a look, and if I can't fit my fist in there I'll gladly hang up my vest forever and take up knitting.

Not sure why you decided to snark up my tree, but I don't appreciate it.

[Petstorejunkie]

Wow this thread has taken a turn :eek:
Honey, you need a healthy dose of humble. Your throat latch IS too tight for this mare's conformation based on the one photo you have provided. If she were to flex her poll correctly she would have interference from the throat latch.
Perhaps better photos of her jaw deformity will get you clearer answers without as many questions that seem to offend you so much.
There is a wealth of information on this board from many lifetimes of equestrians, but instead of listening and LEARNING, you are getting defensive. :no:

[JB]

If someone says "I can fit my fist under the throatlatch" do you really think they're lying? :confused:

If the jaw is indeed angled out, it's *absolutely* possible to appear much too tight because of how it lays.

[Heinz 57]

Thank you, JB.

I'm happy to discuss the possibilities regarding this abnormality. I'm happy to answer questions regarding her flexibility/mobility to further explore the cause and effect of the abnormality. I'm even happy to update this thread next month when she gets her teeth done, IF the vet has any new information or comes across anything of interest.

I am certainly going to get defensive when I'm called a liar, especially on something so trivial and absolutely BASIC.

For anyone interested in discussing the original topic, here is a different angle - you can see better the vertical edge at the rear - in the photo it appears to form a soft, almost right angle.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/erin7264/TB%20Filly/32e36380.jpg

The photo was taken during her regular mid-day nap, lest anyone think I was neglecting an abused/injured/sick animal.

[shawneeAcres]

It is possible she had some sort of nerve damage which caused some muscle wasting in the area of the throatlach, there is muscle there over the underlying structures.

[kookicat]

I bet it's from an old injury- lots of bone in that area, and not much muscle/fat. I love the picture of her laying down- she's sooo relaxed! :)

[SFrost]

If it were me, I would still adjust the throat latch to fit less tight.It appears too tight for that side of her jaw. The buckle looks like it is all the way up, but it is difficult to be certain. I would drop it a few holes. Even if it was a bit too loose on the other side I would still like to see adequate clearance on this side of her jaw.

I am interested to see what the vet finds. Could be an old injury as already stated. Who knows, maybe she took a hoof to the area and that is how it healed. What does it feel like when you palpate it? Does she respond when you do?

At any rate, I wouldn't worry too much about it if it doesn't bother her.

[CB/TB]

Is she an OTTB? Years ago a friend was looking at a horse in the barn I was boarding at and noticed the horse had( at one time) broken his jaw. Noone had mentioned it previous , but after she pointed it out, we could see the deformity of the jawbone and she said it was probably a starting gate injury- the horse was an OTTB.

[chaltagor]

OMG look at how loose that belly strap is on your Amigo! You don't know how to do anything right.

:winkgrin:

I have a TB who has an amazing skull fracture dent in his forehead. You can place your whole hand flat in the dent and fill it up with room to spare. Half of his face is scooped out. Your mare probably had an injury too and this is how it healed. Not every horse was owned by someone who wanted to fix things properly after they got injured. Was she on the track?