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View Full Version : How common is it for breeders/sellers these days...



Sparkling_Sunset
Jan. 5, 2010, 08:07 PM
...To take PayPal or credit cards for the purchase of a horse or pony? And what I'd like to really know, especially, is why aren't some people willing to take PayPal if the buyer offers to cover the 3% fee? It's exactly like getting a check or cash, it's actually more secure than common payment forms... so why aren't more people willing to take it?

I admit, I can see two shortcomings for CCs-- chargebacks, and, of course, the monthly expense incurred by the merchant processer you need to have. But what's wrong with PayPal?

SaturdayNightLive
Jan. 5, 2010, 08:13 PM
Probably the concern that if you can't afford to pay for the animal outright (as in not on credit), you can't afford the care involved.

aspenlucas
Jan. 5, 2010, 08:17 PM
Someone could put a paypal claim in and from the standpoint of a person that manages the paypal complaints of a multi million dollar company I work for, it's a real pain to fight those. I'd do it if the person paid board and the horse stayed here for 45 days (past the time you could put a paypal claim in. There would still be chargebacks to worry about though.

I figure if they are going to pay over time (credit card) why not get a loan out?

heartinrye
Jan. 5, 2010, 08:43 PM
A person at my old barn did this- bought a mid-five figure horse and put it on a credit card, because "we couldn't afford him otherwise". :eek::eek:
I would never let someone buy my horse who couldn't afford him outright, because what happens next month when board is due? or if he colics?

Anselcat
Jan. 5, 2010, 08:58 PM
It's exactly like getting a check or cash, it's actually more secure than common payment forms... so why aren't more people willing to take it?

Nope -- if someone pays me cash, and then decides they were cheated, they have to take me to court and prove to the court's satisfaction that they were in fact cheated.

For Paypal -- what AspenLucas said. The seller can end up having to "prove" they didn't do anything wrong.

Why not do a bank transfer?

Coppers mom
Jan. 5, 2010, 09:10 PM
Because if you have to put a horse on a credit card, you're probably not the most financially stable person.

If you can't afford to pay for a horse NOW and want to do payments, then you probably can't afford any emergencies that come up.

People that pay on PayPal can easily try to get out of it.

Wire Transfer/Cash/Cashiers Checks don't have any extra charges.

And, while this is a more personal thing, you aren't buying a curry comb online! For goodness sakes don't be so lazy as to not want to write out a check. We actually just had someone wanting to pay for a horse via PayPal, and they were the most thoroughly ignorant person I've ever met, so it's just kind of soured my idea of the whole thing even more.

pinkme
Jan. 5, 2010, 09:34 PM
They might not like to share this but, My parents took out a loan to buy one of my horses. They simply did not have that large sum of money sitting around at the time we found the horse. Of course it wasnt an issue of paying board or other things, I was able to show her all the time. So dont assume b/c the person cant afford the outright purchase of the horse, that they couldnt afford to keep the horse and pay vet bills.
I think PayPal is a great idea, but do agree a loan takes the "fraud" chance out of the equation for hte seller

tBHj
Jan. 5, 2010, 10:19 PM
They might not like to share this but, My parents took out a loan to buy one of my horses. They simply did not have that large sum of money sitting around at the time we found the horse. Of course it wasnt an issue of paying board or other things, I was able to show her all the time. So dont assume b/c the person cant afford the outright purchase of the horse, that they couldnt afford to keep the horse and pay vet bills.I think PayPal is a great idea, but do agree a loan takes the "fraud" chance out of the equation for hte seller

I agree.

Hilltopfarmva
Jan. 5, 2010, 10:28 PM
I have a few out of state customers, so many of them pay via paypal. They MUST pay the fees that paypal charges, I put it in their invoice. I have a paypal debit card, so I have access to my money immediately. I have not sold a horse using this service, but I probably would. A sound, solid bill of sale with noth signatures should prevent any disputes that come up on charge backs, etc.. I don't believe if someone pays for a horse on credit that the necessarily don't have the money. I've had local boarding customers use a credit back when we had a machine for our import business to get sky miles.

gooselover
Jan. 5, 2010, 11:03 PM
In defense of using credit cards, I did use a cc to purchase my OTTB?. Why, for the mileage/points/cruise credits. I'm sure there are alot of people who do or would do this. I see nothing wrong in it.

Inso far as the seller, if I were the seller, I could care less how I got my funds, as long as I GOT my funds.

dressurpferd01
Jan. 5, 2010, 11:48 PM
Venturing over from dressage land here...

Paypal is firmly in the corner of the buyer. Sellers have almost no rights with paypal. If someone puts in a claim against the seller, it's insanely hard to fight it, and paypal will tie up your money for weeks if not steal it outright. Too many stories out there about people getting screwed to the wall by paypal.

paint hunter
Jan. 6, 2010, 11:54 AM
I agree with gooselover. A lot of people are trying to collect reward points with their cards. My brother owns mobile home parks and pays every single bill (e.g., community power, water, repairs, whatever, even the property taxes) on his Southwest Airlines card. He gets 6-8 free tickets every month. He can't possibly hope to use them all over the course of the year. Is he willing to share with his sister? Of course not, but that's another story......

ThatScaryChick
Jan. 6, 2010, 04:59 PM
Why is there a lot of assumptions on here that if someone wants to pay for a horse with a credit card they can't afford it to take care of it? I know a couple of people who are well-off and have used credit cards to make big purchases (like horses and vehicles) and they are far from being poor or unable to care for a horse.

EquineRacers
Jan. 6, 2010, 05:52 PM
I have had only 1 buyer do PayPal and I took the 3%, but that is my fault since I completley forgot about the 3%. DUH! I'd say 99% of the time its done by check or cash. Just the old ways of horse dealin I guess.

Coppers mom
Jan. 6, 2010, 06:55 PM
Why is there a lot of assumptions on here that if someone wants to pay for a horse with a credit card they can't afford it to take care of it? I know a couple of people who are well-off and have used credit cards to make big purchases (like horses and vehicles) and they are far from being poor or unable to care for a horse.
I hate to say it, but you can tell who's got the money and looking for sky miles, and who doesn't. And the ones with the big money aren't the ones asking to pay via credit card, for the most part.

We don't mind paypal when people pay for the stud fee, board (we have one with a horse in training from Georgia), and one left a deposit on a horse once because they had already left the state when someone else wanted to schedule a vetting. But we've recently had people asking if they could do payments or pay for the horse on a card on $3,000 horses straight off the track. When they drive a worse car than I (and I drove a '99, POS Neon), and show up in jeans with a $20 Troxel helmet, it's pretty obvious it's not because of the sky miles. Sounds awful, but that's the truth.

DressageFancy
Jan. 6, 2010, 06:58 PM
In defense of using credit cards, I did use a cc to purchase my OTTB?. Why, for the mileage/points/cruise credits. I'm sure there are alot of people who do or would do this. I see nothing wrong in it.

Inso far as the seller, if I were the seller, I could care less how I got my funds, as long as I GOT my funds.

Haven't bought a horse this way simply because I haven't bought a horse in quite awhile, but, I use my CC for everything that I do purchase for the above reasons.
And I did purchase my barn on a credit card! Back when the card co,s were offering 2.99% for the life of the loan. I paid the card off in 4 years. If I had had to refinance my home to get the same money it would have been a 15 year loan at compound interest. I saved a bundle!!

Sparkling_Sunset
Jan. 6, 2010, 07:57 PM
I hate to say it, but you can tell who's got the money and looking for sky miles, and who doesn't. And the ones with the big money aren't the ones asking to pay via credit card, for the most part.

We don't mind paypal when people pay for the stud fee, board (we have one with a horse in training from Georgia), and one left a deposit on a horse once because they had already left the state when someone else wanted to schedule a vetting. But we've recently had people asking if they could do payments or pay for the horse on a card on $3,000 horses straight off the track. When they drive a worse car than I (and I drove a '99, POS Neon), and show up in jeans with a $20 Troxel helmet, it's pretty obvious it's not because of the sky miles. Sounds awful, but that's the truth.


Yeah, well, I hardly think not being able to afford a sub-ten thousand horse is the issue when possible buyer shows up in a new Lexus with a GPA helmet, immaculate dress boots and white breeches, and a KN saddle fitted with Prestige leathers and Sprenger stirrups, if one wants to make assumptions solely on appearances.

I don't mean to be snarky, but I really think that if some people are in a bad enough mood to take it out on a bunch of faceless people they don't even know, they should stay off a forum until they can behave themselves and act civil.

Coppers mom
Jan. 6, 2010, 08:21 PM
Yeah, well, I hardly think not being able to afford a sub-ten thousand horse is the issue when possible buyer shows up in a new Lexus with a GPA helmet, immaculate dress boots and white breeches, and a KN saddle fitted with Prestige leathers and Sprenger stirrups, if one wants to make assumptions solely on appearances.

I don't mean to be snarky, but I really think that if some people are in a bad enough mood to take it out on a bunch of faceless people they don't even know, they should stay off a forum until they can behave themselves and act civil.

I don't really understand what you're talking about.

First of all, I don't think anyone's being nasty or uncivil. Paypal isn't a super secure form of payment (for the seller anyways), and there are ligitimate concerns with people who need to buy a horse on credit.

Secondly, I'm not sure what you're talking about by talking about someone well dressed. Are you saying you'd allow that person to buy a horse (In which case I don't really care)? Trying to say they can afford the horse because of the way they're dressed? What?

Parrotnutz
Jan. 6, 2010, 08:33 PM
We don't mind paypal when people pay for the stud fee, board (we have one with a horse in training from Georgia), and one left a deposit on a horse once because they had already left the state when someone else wanted to schedule a vetting. But we've recently had people asking if they could do payments or pay for the horse on a card on $3,000 horses straight off the track. When they drive a worse car than I (and I drove a '99, POS Neon), and show up in jeans with a $20 Troxel helmet, it's pretty obvious it's not because of the sky miles. Sounds awful, but that's the truth.


I respectfully disagree. I had a designer woman's clothing store for 20 years. I always told my employees not to judge by the way a person appears.....it can get you in big trouble.
One of my best customers came into the store looking like a bag lady and mispronounced every designer name...and paid me with rolls of cash. Then there was the customer who drove a mercedes and was well dressed, and while i was in the garment center buying, my employee handed her a thousand dollars worth of clothes and she forgot her checkbook she said.
Guess what....I never got paid.

I am not rich by any means, and I paid for a horse with my home equity line of credit....why....because I was advised not to pay cash when rates are low. And I can afford the board.

Gosh, I also buy the 38.00 oncourse breeches too.... :D
does that mean I cannot afford to care for my horses, LOL

PS: I do agree that Paypal can be a problem....I accept it in my business so I know

Anselcat
Jan. 7, 2010, 10:41 AM
I agree about not making assumptions about how much money a person has, based on appearances. But if someone shows up and appears to have limited resources AND asks to pay by credit, on a payment plan, or by PayPal -- I think it's entirely reasonable for a seller to consider all the clues about ability to pay/ability to keep the horse, in deciding whether to agree to the deal.

Going by appearance alone is a bad idea. So is completely ignoring appearance when that's pretty much all you have to go on. IMHO

CoolMeadows
Jan. 7, 2010, 10:54 AM
I've sold two through Paypal. One was sight unseen, but the woman had a nice farm and she and her daughter showed quite a bit so I was comfortable with that.

The other buyer had been watching one of my horses waiting for his price to be listed and videos and as soon as they were, she took a day off work, drove 4 hours, tried him and fell even more in love. She called her husband and had him Paypal me as soon as she got off the horse. She was so ridiculously excited. :)

Since Paypal is slanted towards buyers, just type part of your sales contract into the description box on the invoice. "No guarantees", "vetting recommended", "not liable for future damages to person or property"... whatever you have in your bill of sale to CYA against litigious buyers who take pookie home, stall him 23.5 hours/day, throw 9lbs of high octane sweet feed at him, decide to just jump on their lovely 4 year old after 12 days of not riding and then accuse you 6 months later of selling them a wall climbing psycho. ;)

Coppers mom
Jan. 7, 2010, 02:10 PM
I agree about not making assumptions about how much money a person has, based on appearances. But if someone shows up and appears to have limited resources AND asks to pay by credit, on a payment plan, or by PayPal -- I think it's entirely reasonable for a seller to consider all the clues about ability to pay/ability to keep the horse, in deciding whether to agree to the deal.

Going by appearance alone is a bad idea. So is completely ignoring appearance when that's pretty much all you have to go on. IMHO
I agree.

ponies123
Jan. 8, 2010, 07:32 AM
I have a few out of state customers, so many of them pay via paypal. They MUST pay the fees that paypal charges, I put it in their invoice. I have a paypal debit card, so I have access to my money immediately. I have not sold a horse using this service, but I probably would. A sound, solid bill of sale with noth signatures should prevent any disputes that come up on charge backs, etc.. I don't believe if someone pays for a horse on credit that the necessarily don't have the money. I've had local boarding customers use a credit back when we had a machine for our import business to get sky miles.

Off-topic, but I happened to click on your website to browse the sales and I see you own Baron (My Messenger)! I used to ride and show him when he was in NC, I always wondered what happened to him, he was a blast.

Hauwse
Jan. 8, 2010, 09:29 AM
Personally I am an advocate of pure cash deals. However equine sales have changed, the internet has become a huge venue, and has expanded the sellers market. For most sellers their sales market was limited geographically, now a buyer could be anywhere in the country, and possibly in a different country all together, so the payment types are also going to change somewhat.

Paypal, though not perfect, facilitates internet transactions, and in theory, affords a level of protection to both parties involved.

Wire transfers, cashier/certified cheques can take awhile to process, certified/cashier cheques are no better than a personal check now days with all the fraud surrounding them, and all of these add expense to the transaction.

For the seller sitting, on a cheque for two weeks waiting for it to clear may mean an opportunity lost.

As far as the perception associated with a buyer using a credit card goes, who knows why one would want to use that method of payment, but I do not think it means they cannot afford to care for the horse necessarily. Most people do not go out and purchase a $50K car with cash even if they have it...right? I would be more concerned about the buyer who has a problem getting the funds together for anything under $10K together, IE: they don't have the cash, can't put it on a card, and cannot get a loan, as far as the future care of the horse goes.

My experience is that in the horse business there are all kinds of non-traditional sales going on, trades, payment plans, deferred payments, percentages, commissions, and combinations of all the above to sell a horse or to acquire a horse, and they do not always end well.

I also think that with all equine sales, if the seller does not know the buyer, the seller does have a responsibility to the horse to ensure that it is getting a good home, references, etc. this has not changed regardless of the changes within the market.

katie16
Jan. 8, 2010, 09:40 AM
I have a few out of state customers, so many of them pay via paypal.


I don't understand why being out of state makes a difference. I have done purchases and sales between states many times. Regardless of which end of the sale/purchase I have been on, or even whether it is in-state or out of state, there is usually simply a wire transfer for the payment. It is easy, quick, and safe. There is usually a relatively small fee attached to the process by the bank. However, for many I think that the peace of mind knowing that the money is "good" upon its arrival, far outweighs the very minimal fee attached. I have never had it be a big deal for either party.

kellyb
Jan. 8, 2010, 10:49 AM
Venturing over from dressage land here...

Paypal is firmly in the corner of the buyer. Sellers have almost no rights with paypal. If someone puts in a claim against the seller, it's insanely hard to fight it, and paypal will tie up your money for weeks if not steal it outright. Too many stories out there about people getting screwed to the wall by paypal.

YUP!!!

sylvan farm
Jan. 8, 2010, 01:19 PM
We have MC/VISA available for our customers as a courtesy. It's for paying stud fees and boarding bills. As of yet, we have not had anyone want to purchase a horse by credit card. But I have :-) Went to a sale with no intention of buying - and bought a horse.

And I agree that you cannot judge a buyer by the clothes they wear. In our region, some of the weathiest people look like they just came out of the back woods. Good old PNW.