Alright Breeders- Silly Baby Shedding Question

[irkenequine]

A filly I just purchased has me truly stumped-- I cannot tell if she will be liver chestnut or dark bay. Dad is a tobiano (almost tovero, lots of white) bay, mom is chestnut (half belgian and she retained that typical coloring.)

She was born a liiiiight light caramel brown, no dark points and dark brown mane/tail (but who can trust baby fuzz) and shed out dark dark dark, uniformly. In the process she looked aboslutely 100% dark liver, but now in the winter fuzz I'm having my doubts. Inside of ears have gold fuzzies, tail is gold growing in brown, mane is dark dark brown almost black. Edges of ears I truly cannot tell if theyre dark brown or black--muzzle dark brown, and she's got stockings so I can't examine the fetlocks for black. Some times I'm convinced her hocks are black, others I'm convinced their brown.

What age do your babies tend to find their 'final' color? Winter coats can be decieving but I'm dying to know for her :) Feel free to roll your eyes and groan at me...its hard for anyone to make an analysis without any pictures, but she's not being shipped for 2 more weeks and I don't have any current enough photos to do judgement any good--they're all pretty deceptive to her true oclor, so I suppose anyone willing to answer will have to use an imagination.

Any 'tell tale' signs to point me towards bay or chestnut? I guess I'm looking for some solution like "Oh just flip up her lip and check her gum color!" or something equally as silly, knowing full well it doesn't exist! :lol: She's 8 months now, when do your babies stop changing? Or does anyone have liver baby pictures I can reference?

Many apologies for the above novel.

[JB]

She could easily be a dark seal brown :yes:

If you have a picture of her baby-baby color, and now, we might be able to easily tell. Or not :lol:

[irkenequine]

Let me round some up, should have posted these before but...

I will forewarn you, the pictures are slightly misleading...in the pictures, you want to smack me over the head and go "DUH, SHE'S LIVER." But in person, she doesn't have nearly the golden edge she did when she was shedding the baby fuzz.

under a month

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs098.snc3/16564_769868485347_12633019_43339919_2591580_n.jpg

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs118.snc3/16564_769868490337_12633019_43339920_6779319_n.jpg

Shedding out...
http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs118.snc3/16564_769868495327_12633019_43339921_2942794_n.jpg

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs118.snc3/16564_769870236837_12633019_43340044_799094_n.jpg

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs118.snc3/16564_769870246817_12633019_43340046_4791981_n.jpg

A few months ago...

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs098.snc3/16564_769876738807_12633019_43340237_317965_n.jpg

and (heads up! 8 month old growing spurt phase alert!)

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs118.snc3/16564_769887033177_12633019_43340375_376217_n.jpg

Few weeks ago.


Thanks to all who takes the time to click my many links! Sorry to load on so many.

[RiddleMeThis]

IMO shes definitely bay/brown.

Chestnut foals tend to be redder rather than a "brown" shade. (Read the TEND to in that sentence. Its not 100%) Like this foal. Shes not exactly lighter than your filly, but shes redder than your filly.
http://www.halfdan.org/images/Halfdan%20Waldorf2.jpg

The first foal shed tends to be the darkest shed. Many chestnut babies will shed out a very liver color their first shed, and then the next shed go back to a fairly normal chestnut color.

The same is usually the same with bays, but not to the same extreme.

[JB]

I agree, I think she's going to end up a dark seal brown, which can easily be mistaken for liver. The hair around her pasterns is too brown. Even really dark, black-looking liver chestnuts (or even black-looking sooty palominos) have a red hue to the fetlock hair.

If you want to know for sure, you can test her. A simple Extension test, to see if she's E? or ee, would be the cheapest. She'll either come back black-based (E?) or, hardly likely, red-based (ee). If/when it's E?, no doubt in my mind she's brown and not bay.

[irkenequine]

Thanks for that baby picture RMT, ive been browsing everyone's lovely farm website here checking out babies to watch them change. Only horse I've ever bred and raised was a chestnut tobiano--so duh, not a whole lot of surprise and color change there :)

Yeah, the hair around her hocks and fetlocks being so dark I think was the hang up for me...she was sold to me as a liver chestnut but I was just not sure (who can blame anyone at this weird age).

I wonder how much that blood test will be...I'll try to ask my vet without her thinking I'm insane.

Thanks for the help! Much appreciated!

[RiddleMeThis]

I wonder how much that blood test will be...I'll try to ask my vet without her thinking I'm insane.The color test is actually a hair test, and you can do it yourself, and its $25 at http://www.horsetesting.com/RFactor.htm

Its really easy.

[mikali]

irkenequine, all that is needed to test for coat colour is a few hairs from your horses mane. I've used Animal genetics (www.animalgenetics.us) for my own horses. They are affordable and efficient with the results. You would be looking at the red/black factor to know whether your horse is a chestnut (ee) or not (Ee).

[irkenequine]

Oh fantastic-- many thanks to both of you! I'm hoping once she's shipped here and I'm seeing her all day every day it will be more obvious to me, but what a fantastic inexpensive option. Just what i was looking for, perfect perfect:)