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View Full Version : Trakehners- what do you think?



Catomine
Jan. 3, 2010, 12:35 PM
I have been leasing a Trakehner gelding for about 5 months now. I absolutely adore him and to me, he represents a wonderful breed exceptional for hunters, eq, and dressage. In the past however, I was aware of the breed's ill-repute, and I'm wondering where this stems from and if this is the consideration in the modern horse world today? I have even heard mentioned that they are not considered 'real' warmbloods (of course this is extreme bias from one individual's opinion), and to be sub-par to other prominent breeds like Oldenburgs and DWB, Hanoverian, etc.. To my knowledge the Trakehner breed is the oldest WB to date.
Anyways, I'm just interested in different people's views on the breed. Either way I still think my gelding is amazing, (and he is, used to get offers in medals classes of over 80k) regardless of the breed's reputation, I was just interested in some more insight in general. Thanks all!

dutchmike
Jan. 3, 2010, 12:46 PM
I love my Trak. They are just not easy horses. They have personality and don't take any crap. Treat them wioth respect and they will try their heart out for you. Treat them like a machine and they will tell you to stuff it

CBoylen
Jan. 3, 2010, 01:08 PM
The Trakehners I have been around have all been easy and kind, so I haven't ever had a negative experience with their temperament, and I rarely hear people say that they have. However, it's a very rare Trakehner that has the jumping style for the hunter ring. They tend to be good movers and lovely to look at, but people avoid them because it's so rare to find one that uses its shoulder well enough over the jumps. Hollywood, though, was an example of a good-jumping Trakehner, and I know there have been others. Just harder to find and riskier to take a chance on.

Catomine
Jan. 3, 2010, 01:13 PM
Wow, interesting! I guess I have a rare one because his jumping style is super scopey, round, and with great use of his shoulder and nice square knees. His only fault is his sometimes laziness as he gets bored easily and that you cannot touch his mouth to the fence as without enough leg, he is liable to be buried very easily and put in an awkward chip as his jump is super round. Thanks for the input!

NorthHillFarm
Jan. 3, 2010, 01:26 PM
I got a mare a few years ago that I was told was Hanoverian/Trak but come to find out she is full Trakehner. I too had always heard negative things about Trakehners and wouldn't have touched one with a 10 foot pole. I have to say this mare has changed my mind...at least about generalizing ALL Trakehners. She is very easy going and although I use her primarily as a broodmare (she is a FANTASTIC producer) I have taken her to a couple local hunter shows (she competed in dressage before I got her). She is WONDERFUL...quiet, willing and a beautiful mover. She could use more scope and technique over fences but we only jumped 2'3" and she's 16.3. She may be one of those horses that doesn't try until the fences get some height. Her sire scored quite well in the jumping portion of his 100 dat test (9's). She was also only going undersaddle after 2 years off for about a month and weaned about 2 weeks so she was still quite out of shape. Plus she'd never seen a hunter course in her life- I only did a few lines at home before the shows. I would take another dozen like her- she's worth a million bucks.
That being said, I leased a Trakehner mare that was, in my mind, more true to what I'd heard about the breed. She was very flighty and untrusting. I don't know much about her undersaddle as she was only here to use as an ET recipient mare so perhaps she was a dream to ride...but we just did not get along.
I think Trakehners are like any breed, you get some great ones, some good ones and some not so good ones...you just need to pick the right personality to suit you.

TheOrangeOne
Jan. 3, 2010, 01:44 PM
Traks also have a much more closed stud book, and have in the past added more TB and arab blood, so some of them can have a little more blood than your average warmblood.

Lucassb
Jan. 3, 2010, 01:56 PM
The wonderful jumper Abdullah was a Trakehner, IIRC. Certainly plenty of scope and quality there ;)

However, I've known a few and although they were athletic, they were fairly difficult temperments.

I look at each horse as an individual, certainly, and I am sure there are quite a few very nice Traks out there, but it wouldn't be a breed that I'd particularly go looking for if I were in the market for another horse.

shawneeAcres
Jan. 3, 2010, 02:04 PM
Trakehners are actually more of a true "breed" than other WB's which are not "breeds" but "types". The trakehner and the Holsteiners are true closed studbooks, with some rare exceptions of TB or arab blood allowed in. But go look at the oldenburg books, the RPSHI books and even the Hanoverian books and you will see a variety of horses from other registrys that are in there, making it a "type" registry and not a breed registry. GRanted the ones that are in those studbooks are of known, specific bloodlines, but no truly a breed

Alternater
Jan. 3, 2010, 02:08 PM
To quote:

"We accept that the Trakehner is not the horse for everyone. However, those of us prejudiced in favor of this noble breed equate the intelligence and sensitivity to the difference between making an omlette and a souffle. Both are wonderful egg-based dishes, but the lightness and air of a perfect souffle requires patience and skill found only in the most accomplished chefs. A heavy hand ruins a souffle, but a light, deft touch - and perhaps a bit of poetry of soul - produces a little bit of heaven here on earth . . . the same can be said of our Trakehner."

cherham
Jan. 3, 2010, 02:14 PM
Trakehners and TB's are both my favourite horses...no suprise I have a barn full of TB/Trak crosses :) I have one in my barn (gelding) that is opinionated and thinks the world revolves around him. He can be naughty under saddle in that he only does what he thinks he should....but never dangerous and never mean spirited....you just have to be diplomatically firm in your wishes and then he co-operates. And yet another Trak/TB mare (half sister to the above gelding) in my barn is the kindest, sweetest and most forgiving horse you could ever ask for. She would be a perfect childs mount except she is busy doing the A hunter thing at the moment.

Its funny though...I have heard over and over that Trakehners do not have the "style" of jump to be successful in the hunter ring. I am still trying to figure that one out. My mare seems to do quite well. Just to follow up though....can anyone explain to me why amongst some of the hunter crowd the Trak is not considered a "good" A circuit hunter. Or even better perhaps show me some photos of Trak exhibiting this "bad" jumping form. I have yet to see it myself.

Catomine
Jan. 3, 2010, 02:16 PM
Traks also have a much more closed stud book, and have in the past added more TB and arab blood, so some of them can have a little more blood than your average warmblood.

When you say 'blood', do you mean hotter blood? Like a hotter temperament because of the TB and arab influence? I can definitely see that in the breed, even in my horse. He does have a bit of a spook in him, I figured as much with the arab/tb influence in the breed that this is common.

Catomine
Jan. 3, 2010, 02:18 PM
To quote:

"We accept that the Trakehner is not the horse for everyone. However, those of us prejudiced in favor of this noble breed equate the intelligence and sensitivity to the difference between making an omlette and a souffle. Both are wonderful egg-based dishes, but the lightness and air of a perfect souffle requires patience and skill found only in the most accomplished chefs. A heavy hand ruins a souffle, but a light, deft touch - and perhaps a bit of poetry of soul - produces a little bit of heaven here on earth . . . the same can be said of our Trakehner."

I LOVE this..

Catomine
Jan. 3, 2010, 02:20 PM
Trakehners are actually more of a true "breed" than other WB's which are not "breeds" but "types". The trakehner and the Holsteiners are true closed studbooks, with some rare exceptions of TB or arab blood allowed in. But go look at the oldenburg books, the RPSHI books and even the Hanoverian books and you will see a variety of horses from other registrys that are in there, making it a "type" registry and not a breed registry. GRanted the ones that are in those studbooks are of known, specific bloodlines, but no truly a breed

Everything makes a LOT more sense to me now, I see TB's registered as Oldenbergs and a lot of variance in the body types I see in registered WB 'types'.

mortebella
Jan. 3, 2010, 02:24 PM
Where does the quote come from, Alternater?

Alternater
Jan. 3, 2010, 02:27 PM
SO do I cat and I love the breed. Here is another quote for all the Trak lovers out there:

"One criterium more important for the Trakehner than for any other breed is type. Type does not only mean the expression of the face, but is expanded to include a harmonious body with long lines and a large frame hinting towards the thoroughbred influence in this breed. Since the Trakehner not only is a formidable riding horse, but also has a duty refining other warmblood breeds, this is a very important factor. However, the breed did suffer a lot from the times of breeding beauty over performance.

Because of its very unique history, the Trakehner was developed as, and continues to be, the ideal sporthorse. The combination of Arabian blood for intelligence and stamina and English Thoroughbred for toughness, size and courage has -over the centuries- developed a modern riding horse that is one of the most intelligent and sensitive in the world. This noted sensitivity is perhaps a reason why many hold a prejudice against the Trakehner."

Catomine
Jan. 3, 2010, 02:30 PM
SO do I cat and I love the breed. Here is another quote for all the Trak lovers out there:

"One criterium more important for the Trakehner than for any other breed is type. Type does not only mean the expression of the face, but is expanded to include a harmonious body with long lines and a large frame hinting towards the thoroughbred influence in this breed. Since the Trakehner not only is a formidable riding horse, but also has a duty refining other warmblood breeds, this is a very important factor. However, the breed did suffer a lot from the times of breeding beauty over performance.

Because of its very unique history, the Trakehner was developed as, and continues to be, the ideal sporthorse. The combination of Arabian blood for intelligence and stamina and English Thoroughbred for toughness, size and courage has -over the centuries- developed a modern riding horse that is one of the most intelligent and sensitive in the world. This noted sensitivity is perhaps a reason why many hold a prejudice against the Trakehner."

Both of the quotes make a lot of sense. Sterl (my Trak), would definitely never do anything to make one think 'Dumblood!'

Alternater
Jan. 3, 2010, 02:33 PM
Mortebella- this information comes from Trakehner International. Here's the website:
http://www.trakehners-international.com/ideal.html

CBoylen
Jan. 3, 2010, 02:53 PM
Its funny though...I have heard over and over that Trakehners do not have the "style" of jump to be successful in the hunter ring. I am still trying to figure that one out. My mare seems to do quite well. Just to follow up though....can anyone explain to me why amongst some of the hunter crowd the Trak is not considered a "good" A circuit hunter. Or even better perhaps show me some photos of Trak exhibiting this "bad" jumping form. I have yet to see it myself.
I think the easiest way to too see this, without making anyone a "bad" example, is to go to a sales site, like warmbloods-for-sale for instance, and limit your search to Trakehners. You can see repeated in the jumping photos the style flaws that tend to be common in the Trakehner: a stiff neck and a low shoulder and forearm.

This is NOT to say that there aren't many horses in other breeds who are not good jumpers, nor that all Trakehners are bad jumpers. What is interesting though is that the Trakehner as a breed is really consistent in what the flaw is when there is one, and it's one that is the hardest to correct in a horse. The consistency and the difficulty of fixing it make it very memorable to people, which is what produces the bad reputation. And, there is also the fact that many people have been drawn in by the common GOOD traits, as I mentioned, the movement and the looks, and have gotten burned badly on a Trakehner. No one forgets that quickly either ;).

FrenchFrytheEqHorse
Jan. 3, 2010, 03:22 PM
Out of sheer boredom, I did a search on warmbloods for sale, and found a serious number of horses that jump in the exact manner described by CBoylen.

I guess it's possible that the trend of widespread, specific faults for purpose-intended Traks (only referring to the type of jump desirable in the hunter ring- not making any type of judgment regarding the jumper or dressage arenas) could be directly related to the closed book in the breed. It can be hard to really alter the style of a large pool of animals without introducing influential contributors with desirable styles into a closed stud book.

Linny
Jan. 3, 2010, 03:26 PM
I went to WB's for sale and looked at a few, and tend to agree. One or two of the younger ones looked like they might make nice hunters but most didn't., at least not at the higher levels.
It looks as the the breed carries more Arab than any other WB. The flat jump with less neck seems to be a trait the Arabians often carry.
As mentioned though, popularity is often different at different levels. If you plan on showing at the elite shows (Wellington/Upperville/Devon etc) you must have a stricter standard. Several of the horses I saw on the WB's site looked like they would (if those jumps were representative) be very nice for a more moderate level of showing, like local A's and the like.

Bogie
Jan. 3, 2010, 04:13 PM
My last horse was a Trakehner. He was hugely athletic and very sensitive. He was a horse with opinions and could stick to them :lol:. He needed a light touch and was not a horse that anyone could ride.

That said, he was an amazing hunt/xc horse because he was scopey, bold and honest. Not as pretty a jumper as my TB is, but man he could jump anything and he would try his heart out. As my trainer said, these horses were bred to go xc and they do!

I'd buy another in a heart beat. He was solid, sound, sane and smart. I Never really thought about his jumping style in terms of the hunter ring, but I think CBoylan is correct. So, it just depends on what job you want to do with them.

ToTheNines
Jan. 3, 2010, 04:27 PM
I have a Trak/TB that is now six, doing the Baby Greens. His Trak sire is Harper, whose babies tend to have very solid minds. Mine (Simon) wants to be very quiet, and will be, as soon as he gets more show milegage. He has a bit of a spook, not bad, and is the quietest spooky horse I have ever ridden.

He is a fairly good mover, with 3ds and 4ths. Jumping, he has a nice boxy look in front, but is not as drapey over his top line as I would like. However, he is very pretty and has a great presence, which makes up for a lot. He inherited Harper's nice neck and head. He has a nice canter, very even to the jumps, which helps a lot for an amateur ride.

Here are some pictures. He is the bright chestnut, not the caramel colored app.

http://www.heavenshorsephoto.exposuremanager.com/scripts/expman.pl?rm=view_favorites&dir=galleries/5

The lack of stretch along his topline is probably what CBoylen is talking about. However, he is fine for what I want him for (a pretty modified adult hunter). I would buy another Harper bred baby in an instant.

Lone
Jan. 3, 2010, 04:44 PM
The Trakehners I have been around have all been easy and kind, so I haven't ever had a negative experience with their temperament, and I rarely hear people say that they have. However, it's a very rare Trakehner that has the jumping style for the hunter ring. They tend to be good movers and lovely to look at, but people avoid them because it's so rare to find one that uses its shoulder well enough over the jumps. Hollywood, though, was an example of a good-jumping Trakehner, and I know there have been others. Just harder to find and riskier to take a chance on.

That's interesting, I didn't realize that was a common problem with Trakehners. My last horse was a Trakehner and he was my first of that breed. He was bold and loved to jump, but he hung his knees. We worked for a while trying to 'fix' his style, but never made much improvement. Ultimately, I ended up not wanting to take him very high x-c because I was worried about a rotational fall.

BigEq
Jan. 3, 2010, 04:47 PM
The two Trakehners I have known and ridden were both fabulous. They took care of you and jumped from anywhere and wonderfully mannered and I never had problems with either one. They both went in every ring - eq, jumpers, and hunters - although they were more suited for the eq ring they won their fair share in other classes too. I couldn't tell you anything about their breeding, though, because they weren't mine. I would never rule a Trakehner out :D

Mara
Jan. 3, 2010, 04:52 PM
Out of sheer boredom, I did a search on warmbloods for sale, and found a serious number of horses that jump in the exact manner described by CBoylen.

I guess it's possible that the trend of widespread, specific faults for purpose-intended Traks (only referring to the type of jump desirable in the hunter ring- not making any type of judgment regarding the jumper or dressage arenas) could be directly related to the closed book in the breed. It can be hard to really alter the style of a large pool of animals without introducing influential contributors with desirable styles into a closed stud book.

And it is understandable on the part of those who maintain the Trakehner books that they are not interested in opening their books in order to appeal to the show hunter crowd. . .which is exclusively a US niche. Not knocking hunter breeders at all (or breeders of other WB breeds, for that matter); it's just I can understand the caution.

Calvincrowe
Jan. 3, 2010, 05:45 PM
Huh. Well, I guess the handful of Traks I've seen showing on the A circuit here in the PNW are the exception to CBoylen's observation. All jumped well enough to pin in top company at A and AA rated shows.

I think there are poor jumpers in any breed--knee hangers, leaners, uneven. I don't think it is strictly a Trakehner thing. There aren't very many Traks in comparison to other warmblood breeds out showing in America, so the bad ones stick out a bit.

They are a closed book--only a couple of TBs and Arabs have been accepted in over the last 100+ years. A Trakehner is an actual breed, not just a registry.

I owned a Trak mare who jumped in top form, and moved a ten. She was more like a TB in her temperament--sensitive, willing, but very "vigilant". She did not take a joke well, either.

Catomine--You'll also find Traks "hidden" by being registered as another type of warmblood. Here in the PNW, there is a rather well known Selle Francais who is actually a Trakehner by breeding;) His get are quiet, big, superb over fences and great movers. One is a repeat year end champion in the big jumpers.

RioTex
Jan. 3, 2010, 05:58 PM
I bought an Anglo Trak despite his brand, because his front end is spectacular, now that may have come from mom as he has half-sibs with great form too.

He is very quiet, but the spookiest creature I have ever owned. Thankfully, he likes to jump the jumps, but I may or may not ever get him in the corner. He is truly sweet, but really not smart, quite in contrast to most of the other horses around here.

pinkme
Jan. 3, 2010, 08:13 PM
Here is my boy.. No way on earth would he make a hunter, now would he?
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2454675&l=b590f86431&id=573716258

(This is not me on him in the pic above)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1159894&l=29ab32c7b1&id=573716258

Or would he get a piece of the hack..

CBoylen
Jan. 3, 2010, 08:31 PM
Pinkme, what horse is that? I swear it looks like a horse I knew a long time ago, Bravyi. He was a Russian horse, a children's jumper.

Ethan & Ella's Mom
Jan. 3, 2010, 08:48 PM
Chanda, I'm pretty sure that's him. I recognize the rider in the o/f shot.

CBoylen
Jan. 3, 2010, 09:00 PM
Ah, cool. I had wondered where he ended up. He looks great. I'm astounded that he's a hunter now though, he was a firecracker, almost too hard even to get to the jumper ring. I'm glad he has a nice home.
To get back on topic, I had thought he was a budyonny.

Garnet93
Jan. 3, 2010, 09:13 PM
I own a trakehner who I have won a ton with in the childrens hunters. At least in my opinion he is a great hunter who jumps well, is a hack winner, and is quite good looking. He isn't the easiest horse in the barn, but he is definitely one of the bravest if not THE bravest. He did the junior hunters and A/O successfully before I bought him including being champion at Garden State, Old Salem, Gardnertown etc. I admit he is not the "dumblood" that many people think of in the hunter ring, but he certainly holds his own! (and he is 15.2 1/4...not all horses his size would be capable of doing what he has done...I think the athleticism that he has come from his breeding) We were 1st on Long Island and Champion of Zone 2 this year...I wouldn't say that being a trakehner hurt us in the show ring. We almost always win the undersaddle and as long as I find the jumps we often win the jumping too...

In the Childrens with me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zJR5YZ_mf4
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2515475&l=56fb73ade3&id=733487433
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2958692&l=0066eb87a9&id=733487433
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2958692&op=1&o=global&view=global&subj=733487433&id=733487433#/photo.php?pid=2598804&op=9&o=global&view=global&subj=733487433&id=733487433&fbid=145377867433
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2958692&op=1&o=global&view=global&subj=733487433&id=733487433#/photo.php?pid=2337792&op=20&o=global&view=global&subj=733487433&id=733487433
In the small jrs before me:
http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/Orderpage.aspx?pi=00HZ00D4040024&po=24&pc=79


My friend at the barn also has a trakenher who was champion and Marshall & Sterling Finals in the childrens hunter horses.

Another favorite trakeher: Tobasco who won a lot with Alexandra Thorton in the small junior hunters.
http://www.nhs.org/news/photos/tobascoisredhothollyshepherdto.jpg
http://www.floridahorse.com/images/2006wef/Week%204/Tobasco.jpg
http://www.floridahorse.com/images/2006wef/Week%201/AlexandraThornton.jpg

stoicfish
Jan. 4, 2010, 01:20 AM
I have owned a AngloTrak mare for 13 years (got her as a yearling). She is sweet, super smart and sensitive. If you ask her to do something, she will always try for you, and has never refused my requests. She does not like men and is very particular about who she has around her. I adore and respect her. It has been my experience that Traks are not for everyone as they require finesse in handling them, they do not suffer fools easily. As far a jumping talent, they are definitely out there. Many times crosses are not recognized, so you may be looking at a Trak cross when you hear Han, Old, SF etc. And of course, in dressage, the best score in the world right now is held by a ½ trak.
I am not familiar with hunter classes but I was told by the lady that purchased my mare’s sire that he was a 4’3’’ hunter? Here is his picture
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/wermiszel

Traks are actually very talented, and have high numbers of “top” horses compared to overall population.

Leading Hunter sires. There are 3 full Traks in the top 50, 2 in the top 25.
http://www.usef.org/documents/points/2008/LeadingSires/Hunter.pdf

RyuEquestrian
Jan. 4, 2010, 04:51 AM
We have a trakehner colt that was born this year and absolutely love him! We produced him specifically to be a hunter specialist with the traditional Trakehner daisy cutter movement and that litte bit of flash that the blood of the Trakehner brings to the equation. His mom was a champion conformation hunter and his dad is Hennessey, the sire of the legendary hunter Zarr. We couldn't be more pleased with this cross and the results: http://sakurahillfarm.com/horses.php?HOID=55

cherham
Jan. 4, 2010, 07:25 AM
CBoylen I am glad you reposted here. I always appreciate your comments.

I did look at the site you mentioned but perhaps need to spend more time and go through all the pages to see the jumping style that are you referred to. I have sent you a PM as well...hope you don't mind.

acottongim
Jan. 4, 2010, 11:01 AM
You know, I have to say that I'm very very pleaslantly surprised and find it refreshing to read this thread!!! :-)

Normally, in years past, I'd see a thread of this question (on any of the forums) and the replies by and large would be very very negative and the common thread would be that they are "crazy". I'm soooooo glad to see that the tide has changed somewhat.

There are TKs that are not very good jumpers in terms of their technical ability - perhaps because the jump was not emphasised or lack of understanding with breeding etc... But things are changing. There are now breeders that are specifically breeding for jumpers within the breed, and I do see more and more that are out there with better front ends and better scope over fences. And they are out and doing well.

The stallion Hirtentanz is at the top of my list to breed to eventually.

TwoDreamRides
Jan. 4, 2010, 11:02 AM
We have two Trakehner crosses I see one as a very nice hunter prospect, the other I plan to aim towards the Dressage market. The filly has just been put under saddle recently, the colt is only 2 -- so I am only going off conformation, temperament, & movement at this time.

I think Trakehners got the reputation they did due to a slightly hotter, more reactive temperament and, in my opinion, they do tend to run on the smaller side.

The crosses I have known, however, were all wonderful amateur horses which is why I chose the cross.

Can you tell which will be headed to Hunters and which will be headed to the Dressage arena?

Tiberon
Trot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/34855511@N04/3972367527/in/set-72157622498625216/
Confo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/34855511@N04/3973156464/in/set-72157622498625216/

Feuervogel
Trot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/34855511@N04/3972270777/in/set-72157622498625216/
Confo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/34855511@N04/3972254641/in/set-72157622498625216/

Now if only I could get them to stop leaning at our ear pricker! Curious creatures ;)

Nickelodian
Jan. 4, 2010, 11:38 AM
I apparently own the anti-trak trak. No one ever believes me that he is what he is b/c he's more the old school "thick" WB, definitely not the more refined modern traks you see today.

He's simple, quiet, and a pure pleasure to ride. We had our fair share of sucess in the Adults last year and moved up to the 3'6 this year.

He doesn't jump FABULOUS everytime, but we hold our own. If anything he gets reachy up front and is SO BIG doesn't really have a reason to use himself until they get about 3'9-4'. He's just lazy that way. Wish he would jump rounder, but he is what he is.

In the Baby Greens

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8dd22b3127ccec3d3e1e4318200000050O08QcNmzJsxaA9 vPhQ/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

More BG

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8da29b3127ccec3843303190600000020O08QcNmzJsxaA9 vPhQ/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Schooling at home

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9da37b3127ccec6b515b8f17700000030O08QcNmzJsxaA9 vPhQ/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9da37b3127ccec6b41cef10c000000030O08QcNmzJsxaA9 vPhQ/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

3'

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d808b3127ccec72e94f94f1600000040O08QcNmzJsxaA9 vPhQ/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2675525&l=3a6739d016&id=523417959

3'3

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3136919&l=7fe5b09736&id=523417959

Nothing of 3'6 yet, that's to come :)

ToTheNines
Jan. 4, 2010, 12:10 PM
Nick! I did not know he is a Trak! I would not have thought! Nice pictures! He doesn't look much like my (relatively) little Simon does he?

SidesaddleRider
Jan. 4, 2010, 12:52 PM
My DH and I have had 3 Traks.

#1 was a stallion that DH imported from Poland. He was a stunningly beautiful horse, and had perfect jumping form. He did both the First and Second Year Greens, as well as up to the Level 6s in the jumpers (and was successful in both areas). I don't have a picture of him online, but I'll scan one of him doing the jumpers at WEF. He was very polite, and in fact most people didn't know he was a stallion.

#2 was a Trak/TB mare by Schoenfeld. She was a terror to deal with (spooky, flighty, etc) until she was about 6. Then she settled down, and became the stereotypical "lady's mount." She foxhunted for 7 seasons, and showed in the A/As and sidesaddle. She was a good mover, and scopey jumper with a tidy front end, but she certainly didn't have "A" show form, and her show record reflected that. Some pics of her with George are here (she is Lauren, the gray mare) http://cherryblossomfarm.net/showpics.html, and then sidesaddle with me here http://cherryblossomfarm.net/sidesaddle.html. We had to retire her due to injury, and bred her to a Dutch WB. Her son will be broken next spring, and we'll see what we get. He has already jumped over a 6' round pen panel from a 2 stride approach, so hopefully he has jump. ;)

#3 was a full Trak mare, imported from Canada. The Arab was only 2 generations back, and she is definitely a bit hot. She is a 10 mover, and a very good jumper, but again, not "A" show form. I had her up to 4'6" with plenty of room, and she HATED to touch a fence. She did Training level eventing, the level 5 jumpers, and the 3' A/A and sidesaddle, but the hunters were NOT her thing. She also hunted 2 seasons, and was VERY good at that. Pictures here: http://cherryblossomfarm.net/kyra.html.

So would I buy another Trak? If I was looking for an event horse or a jumper, yes, but it would have to be an exceptional one for me to buy it for the hunters.

Bolero
Jan. 4, 2010, 01:12 PM
I have a Trak/TB that is now six, doing the Baby Greens. His Trak sire is Harper, whose babies tend to have very solid minds. Mine (Simon) wants to be very quiet, and will be, as soon as he gets more show milegage. He has a bit of a spook, not bad, and is the quietest spooky horse I have ever ridden.

He has a nice canter, very even to the jumps, which helps a lot for an amateur ride.



Sounds just like my new horse! He is exactly what you said, the "quietest spooky horse I have ever ridden". My guy is a lovely mover, a bit more dressagey than huntery movement but still very pretty to look at. He also has a VERY nice canter and it is very amateur friendly as well. He has a wonderful personality and is extremely quiet - he even spooks quietly. He is very smart and picks things up very quickly. He will be doing the pre-greens with my trainer this year and I will attempt to find 8 jumps in the Adults :yes:

Nickelodian
Jan. 4, 2010, 02:27 PM
Nine - Yup, 100% trak, the only trace of TB is his great great dam, which could account for the throwback look.

He actually looks a whole lot like his daddy. :)

http://www.gestuet-haemelschenburg.de/html/e_ikost.html

alteringwego
Jan. 4, 2010, 03:06 PM
The ones I've known have been ok but nothing amazing. there certainly are nice ones out there though. As with any breed you have to go on a horse by horse basis.
Ours is a great mover, ok jumper and very sensitive personality. She frazzles easily and needs a confident rider/handler to reassure her but if you've got that then she's fabulous. And stunning to look at! She's by Martini. Was bred to be a dressage horse.

RomeosGirl
Jan. 4, 2010, 03:26 PM
The ones I've known have been ok but nothing amazing. there certainly are nice ones out there though. As with any breed you have to go on a horse by horse basis.
Ours is a great mover, ok jumper and very sensitive personality. She frazzles easily and needs a confident rider/handler to reassure her but if you've got that then she's fabulous. And stunning to look at! She's by Martini. Was bred to be a dressage horse.
That's funny - I have a Martini baby also, well I can't call him a baby he will be 22 next month.
I would say the same thing about him - not the greatest jumper form wise (this is actually one of his better jumping efforts) (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2537448680101815813hJfpvf) & needs a confident rider or he can be spooky. But he's fabulous for me, the kindest horse I've known. If you browse the rest of that album you will see he is definitely a "pretty boy" by maybe I'm a little biased:yes:

Garnet93
Jan. 4, 2010, 05:28 PM
At least in my opinion like a hunter....
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2252616&l=4ab4a65b28&id=733487433
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2248854&l=fd69abd294&id=733487433
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2101262&l=ae4b67410c&id=733487433 (ignore that he's wearing eq boots)
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2101263&l=7e997ce42d&id=733487433
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1873277&l=a0c048bcc6&id=733487433
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1807702&l=b36dfe16c3&id=733487433
http://www.facebook.com/#/photo.php?pid=2624341&op=42&o=global&view=global&subj=733487433&id=507891002
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?v=photos&id=733487433&so=615#/photo.php?pid=3289443&op=47&o=global&view=global&subj=733487433&id=713851350
Not sure if you'll be able to see all of the photos...but hopefully you can :)

I would think there are horses in every breed that jump well and horses in every breed that jump poorly...no? I'm curious to know why there is a belief that all trakehners jump poorly. The 3 that I know (including my own) are all winning hunters although they are all more high strung than the "dumbloods". Just wondering why that has become the common belief?

JrHunterRider
Jan. 4, 2010, 05:42 PM
Every breed has its good and bad qualitities. Trakehners are known to be pushy on the ground when being handled, but this certainly isn't true for all Trakehners. In fact, I was just at New Bolten hospital today talking with the vet about my client's Trakehner gelding that was there for examination. Repeatedly, he said he was very surprised at the kind and gentle demeanor and excellent manners of my client's horse. He said most Trakenhers are a little difficult in some way or the other.

Garnet93
Jan. 4, 2010, 05:52 PM
Every breed has its good and bad qualitities. Trakehners are known to be pushy on the ground when being handled, but this certainly isn't true for all Trakehners. In fact, I was just at New Bolten hospital today talking with the vet about my client's Trakehner gelding that was there for examination. Repeatedly, he said he was very surprised at the kind and gentle demeanor and excellent manners of my client's horse. He said most Trakenhers are a little difficult in some way or the other.

Mine has a true puppy dog personality and is super friendly and easy on the ground. He is a harder/more sensitive ride, but not spooky at all. Everyone is always impressed at how kind he is.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3097717&l=86ac0a94a3&id=733487433
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2337787&l=2d3bad7ce9&id=733487433 (Oh...and he licks :P)
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2032691&l=1ec0d5969a&id=733487433

JrHunterRider
Jan. 4, 2010, 06:07 PM
PinkMe or Ethan & Ella's mom, isn't that Cindy Bohn jumping him in that first picture?

AffirmedHope
Jan. 4, 2010, 06:40 PM
I currently lease a Trak. myself and i love him. I never knew they were known for their hotness. My boy is the calmest sweetest thing ever, the only thing he ever spooked at was a cow and it wasn't even that bad of a spook. I won't lie he is a hard ride and it did take me a long time to figure him out, and I still kind of am. But from what I read here that seems like a common trait in this breed. He makes you work for what you want to get out of him but he never does anything that will cause you harm. The fact that he is 20 also might have something to do with how calm he is also. :lol:

GreyHunterHorse
Jan. 4, 2010, 07:09 PM
I've got a Trak/TB cross, a Trafalgar Square baby. He was a TERROR to work with as a 3-5 year old, but with an excellent training program, trainer, and consistency, he is working up to be a super horse. Moves like a dream, lovely to look at, and not bad over fences.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=34053110&l=65e8c606c2&id=15606694

That photo is from early on when he was young and naughty.

Pally
Jan. 4, 2010, 07:54 PM
I think a lot of what I will say is a reiteration of the posts above me, which is nice to see the realistic views out there rather than just hearing "crazy".

My experience with the breed comes from an amazing 4 months spent working for a wonderful East German "old style" Trakehner breeder. Besides the daily interaction with their horses, I was also privy to the vast knowledge that came from her lifetime spent with and huge passion for the breed.

First off, of course every horse is an individual, and when it comes to a breed known for having a lot of personality, that can mean big differences from horse to horse. For example, right from the start, the two foals I cared for were by the same sire and out of full sister dams. The filly was brave and bold about everything but you could see that she has the potential to get sassy and would need good handling to always mind her manners. The colt was pretty shy about people but once he knew someone he would trust them completely and follow directions easily.

That said, there are traits known to be common in the breed. Most are highly intelligent. This can be a blessing and a curse in a horse of any breed - easy to train, but easy to bore, and you always have to be smarter than them. So whether this is a plus or minus really depends on the person. They also love to work (you should have seen the sulking when I had to take a week break with the 3 year old gelding I'd been working daily)....this ethic has been bred in right from the breed's origins. Again, this can be good or bad depending on your situation....if you can't get out to ride much it might become a problem, but if you have a job to give them, it can certainly be nice. There is a tendency to be sensitive, but I don't think that necessarily equates to spookiness or hotness, just that everything takes a light touch. And I think there are some out there who just won't tolerate the heavy touch the way some horses would.

In any case, I think the people who love the breed are well aware of how these traits work, and that they will only work for some people - but when they do they can be a wonderful thing. I can't afford my own Trak, but as soon as I got home from Germany, I ended up purchasing a horse with many of the exact same personality traits I had found myself enjoying with the Traks.


As for ability in sport, I'm certainly not an authoritative expert on anything, but I'll make a few points. First of all, when you are speaking of hunters, remember that they don't exist in Europe, so it's not like they are being bred for it. Yes some will still come out suitable for it (and I think probably enough of them that you could successfully start a breeding program for it if you wanted), but it's not surprising when they aren't hunters, when that's not the breeding goal. Furthermore, while there are certainly jumping lines in the breed, they aren't perhaps as prevalent in the breed as some others, so again you are reducing the sample size to draw from. I have seen the jumping over the shoulder thing others have mentioned, but not accompanied by hanging legs at all, so while maybe not ideal (and the commission will praise freedom of shoulder when they see it), I don't think it's heavily penalized if the other elements are there - again, hunters aren't the aim.

JOBEAN
Jan. 4, 2010, 08:02 PM
Sounds just like my new horse! He is exactly what you said, the "quietest spooky horse I have ever ridden". My guy is a lovely mover, a bit more dressagey than huntery movement but still very pretty to look at. He also has a VERY nice canter and it is very amateur friendly as well. He has a wonderful personality and is extremely quiet - he even spooks quietly. He is very smart and picks things up very quickly. He will be doing the pre-greens with my trainer this year and I will attempt to find 8 jumps in the Adults :yes:

Sounds like my Trak/TB!!

rideforthelaurels16
Jan. 5, 2010, 12:35 AM
I love Trakehners; I'm a Thoroughbred person so their lighter bone structure and higher sensitivity (generalizing here based on Traks that I've ridden) really appeals to me.

TwinGates
Jan. 5, 2010, 02:09 AM
Nine - Yup, 100% trak, the only trace of TB is his great great dam, which could account for the throwback look.

He actually looks a whole lot like his daddy. :)

http://www.gestuet-haemelschenburg.de/html/e_ikost.html

Nick, I didn't need to see this pedigree link to know I was looking @ a Kostolany; pegged your boy's daddy the second I saw his face & bone size. (Kostolany is the dam's sire of Anissa's "short-listed" Hirtentanz.) And, BTW, the TB isn't the source of the 'throwback look'. That's classic Kostolany.

One of my true treats on a visit to Germany was going to Haemelschenburg where Otto Langels showed us all of his stallion prospects (believe he had 7 that year going to NMS that year), then his approved stallions and finally, the grand old man (he was 20 or 21 @ the time) himself. All stallions were shown by tall, fit, long-legged kids who got these horses MOVING as if it was the hard surface portion of a keuring and Kosto was the king of them all: mane pulled as if he were ready to be braided for a class, coat gleaming, hooves polished, eyes shining and moving in such a free, powerful way that his handler had to WORK to stay up with him. He looked and moved like a stallion 1/2 his age and you could see the pride in Herr Langels face watching him.

Hauwse
Jan. 5, 2010, 07:00 AM
Nine - Yup, 100% trak, the only trace of TB is his great great dam, which could account for the throwback look.

He actually looks a whole lot like his daddy. :)

http://www.gestuet-haemelschenburg.de/html/e_ikost.html

or perhaps because the Thoroughbred has played a greater role in the development of the breed of the East Prussian Warmblood Horse of Trakehner Origin than in any other warmblood breed ?

Nickelodian
Jan. 5, 2010, 05:04 PM
TwinGates - That is so coooooool! What fun to see the old man in action, he looks like an amazing horse even just through pictures.

What I was trying to say about the "throwback" look was that he had so little TB in his lines that he is just of the older type. Not the other way around :)

Lieb Schon
Jan. 5, 2010, 07:09 PM
I have owned 2 Anglo-Traks, both by the same sire (Schonfeld), and both lovely hunters.
I agree that they can be flighty and difficult early on, but my God are they loyal. This last year I have begun to understand the idea of teamwork that my Trak apparently inherently understands, but is lacking in my genetic makeup. I am correcting that problem. :lol: She humbles me.
I wish I could post photos so everyone can see the get of this particular sire. The fact is CBOYLEN is correct in a lot of ways regarding performance in the hunter ring. There aren't a lot of Trak sires that throw huntery babies. But there are a few. Schonfeld was HOY or reserve Hunter sire for 4 years straight in early 2000. How quickly they forget.:no:

And the reference to the Arab influence needs to be addressed. There is VERY LITTLE MODERN INFLUENCE OF THIS BREED! Any Arab or Tbred that is registerable has been through an inspection by the breed's foremost authorities. They are looking at whether or not a particular horse could potentially breed well with the modern Trakehner based on conformation, movement, and temperment. There are MANY Thoroughbred and Arabian horses that are NOT approved for breeding in the inspection process. The actual number of approved Arabians is EXtremely low. There is very strict criteria involved in this process that will exclude most. Once an Arab or Tbred mare has been approved, she can then breed to a registered stud and have a registerable foal. I must add that it is the responsibility of any buyer to research the history of any horse they might buy.

I am extremely proud to say that I started "Into The Mystic" who went on to very great things with Laura Kraut immediately after I sold her in 1996.

My current partner is "Lieb Schon," and while more challenging that her sister, she is quickly maturing into a very fancy girl. I only thank God that I was in a position to keep this one to allow her to mature. I sincerely believe this breed is misunderstood because people expect too much too soon. Most of the hunter trainers want a polished trip at age 3-4. Perhaps the avg mental state of a Trak of that age is Fate's way of keeping them sound into their teens without injections. :winkgrin: The backside of that story is there are a lot of horses pushed too hard too soon. And they go bad fast. With the obvious exceptions, the owners and trainers are the reason these horses have any stigma at all.

So if you want a horse for life, and you are willing to get through a baby phase perhaps longer than most, you will have a sensitive devoted partner. :D

ps We will be in the Chron in the March Horse Show Edition for SWFHJA Non Thoroughbred

Ethan & Ella's Mom
Jan. 5, 2010, 07:48 PM
PinkMe or Ethan & Ella's mom, isn't that Cindy Bohn jumping him in that first picture?

Yes it is.

Pally
Jan. 5, 2010, 10:50 PM
"Blut is der Saft, der Wunder Schafft"

From the walls of the state stud Graditz, and I think out of the mouths of many breeders. Sorry I can't pull off a great translation for you, but suffice it to say, "blood" (as in TB and Arab) is extremely important in the Trakehner breed.

It's important because they use it carefully to infuse specific qualities in the breed. I think people hear TB and Arab and somehow think only the bad stuff is getting bred in? While certainly any breeding animal comes as a full package deal with all 64 chromosomes, it would be rather silly to think this is being done all willy nilly. No, they are quite careful with it indeed.

Also, with regards to the Arab thing, Lieb Schon is correct that there is not a lot of this in the modern lines (certainly TBs dominate the "blood" influence). However, after my experience, I would say we don't need to be so automatically ashamed of the fact that there is indeed Arabian influence in Warmbloods. Yes, Warmbloods, not just Trakehners, since the Trakehner bloodlines are often used by other Warmblood breeds (often for refinement). When watching show jumping on TV, my boss could easily name off the Trakehner and/or Arab influences in many of those horses, but probably not something a lot of other people would "want" to talk about.

The other thing to note is that European Arabians are, on average, different from what we often see here. They are not overly refined show types (at least, not the ones used in warmblood breeding). They are a more substantial "using" type. While no one is going to mistake them for a warmblood, the stretch to cross between them is not as far as some people might picture in their minds

Tannenwald Trakehner
Jan. 6, 2010, 11:18 AM
As for the original question, I think well of Trakehners ;) I appreciate seeing a thread discussing breed attributes and stigma that is built on contributions of fact rather than hearsay.

I enjoy seeing all of the quotations...particularly the one above (roughly, "Blood is the juice that creates magic"). The Trakehner book is closed, and to say that TB and Arab are "added" is not strictly correct. The Trakehner, as a breed, has a high percentage of TB and Arab blood (which is why it is a refining and improving breed for many of the other warmblood registries). So keeping active blood horses in the breeding stock is not so much a matter of adding in but of preserving the breed.

I have heard people say that Trakehners are difficult because of having too much Arab and TB blood. It is ironic...of my favorite horses (the ones I will keep to ride because they are "easy" enough for me), two are old-style Trakehner, one is a Arab-Trakehner, and one is an Anglo-Trakehner! I guess there really is no place for generalization when speaking of horse temperaments.

And I think the discussion of jumping aptitude is very interesting. These horses were bred to be all-around riding horses and probably most have enough ability to clear at least moderate obstacles in their paths. I recognize that conformation and type--as is typically dictated by breed--may make a horse more or less capable of doing so with a certain style. Not being a jumping rider myself (I tend to auto-eject if there is even an overly enthusiastic canter stride...), I would like to develop a better eye for what, if you will pardon the pun, "flies or dies" in the jumping and/or the hunting world.

I would love some commentary from people whose knowledge of these things exceeds my own on the following, links to video clips of some of my horses free jumping. I welcome all comments. I have to qualify these things...these are literally the first time these animals have been free-jumped. I have to trailer them out to a facility with an indoor and jumps, totally unfamiliar to the horses, and then we spend a little (really, not enough time) letting them see the "chute" and pushing them through a few times. It is sort of a crash course, that, even worse, is administered by people who don't really have a clue about distance and so forth. The best I can say is, at least the trauma is not repeated another day. So here they are, raw "talent" or not ;).

One is a "pure" Trakehner mare (about 1/8 TB through her dam) and the others (you maybe can guess which ones...) are by a TB stallion and out of Trakehner mares without very much TB blood close up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhPKODc6JTU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06DQq61su60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_URkVfB3Lk

omare
Jan. 6, 2010, 12:03 PM
"Blood is the juice that creates magic."

Thank you for the translation--it gives me goosebumps!

Trak_Eventer
Jan. 6, 2010, 12:11 PM
I have a Trak and love her. I went from a large QH pony to a 3yo Trak. I don't know what I was thinking! But she has turned out to be the coolest horse. Has a very sweet personality. She wants to know what everyone is doing all the time and thinks that everyone loves her. She has never done anything to make me think she is a "crazy" Trakehner. I rode her around bareback and in a halter when she was a 3yo. All of the ones I have been around have been young ones and they have all been typical young horses. Nothing crazy. My girl is smart and wants to be a good girl. She has had a few times when she said "no" and it was just going to be like that for the day. She is an eventer, so I can't say she jumps like a perfect hunter, but she is very athletic and scopey.
Here are a few pics of her doing stadium:
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs033.snc1/4313_1104481411517_1211190292_30437171_7865612_n.j pg
http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs237.snc1/8434_1155357963399_1211190292_30600370_3576118_n.j pg
http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs047.snc3/13456_1188580873951_1211190292_30690910_2569237_n. jpg
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs067.snc3/13456_1188581073956_1211190292_30690914_3555450_n. jpg

Tannenwald Trakehner
Jan. 6, 2010, 12:23 PM
Lovely mare! What is her breeding?

RugBug
Jan. 6, 2010, 12:35 PM
It is sort of a crash course, that, even worse, is administered by people who don't really have a clue about distance and so forth. The best I can say is, at least the trauma is not repeated another day. So here they are, raw "talent" or not ;).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhPKODc6JTU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06DQq61su60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_URkVfB3Lk

Um, hard to really evaluate because of the horrible distances. I'm feel bad for both of the palominos as they got the worst of it. IMO, the bay has more of a chance...and exhibits some of the stiffness associated with Traks and jumping.

Personally, I'd like the see the last horse with better distances. She jumps fairly nicely even given the bad distances and little chance to do well. I don't care for the other two at all.

lilypondlane
Jan. 6, 2010, 12:49 PM
I had the same question for Trak_Eventer -- what is her breeding? The mare is awesome and I love the description of her personality -- very much like my own Trak girls.

411
Jan. 6, 2010, 01:24 PM
I have an Anglo/Trak that contradicts every stereotype about them. He's a quiet, non-spooky, easy going, social, uncomplicated horse. What others have said about requiring a little finesse is true and certainly was when he was younger. He's a late bloomer, and really only came into his own when he turned 8. He can be a bit sensitive, more like a mare than other geldings I've ridden. He's not one to muscle or bully but if you ask nicely he'll give his all. He's very brave, will jump anything and is smart. He's a great all round horse -- a very nice mover but would do well in jumpers or low level dressage. He's also very good on trails.

Tannenwald Trakehner
Jan. 6, 2010, 02:00 PM
RugBug, thanks for the feedback. I wasn't kidding...clueless....

Though on distances, I have to say, the chute for the bay mare has the jump configuration and distances used in the American Trakehner Association's stallion candidate free jumping phase of inspection. The height on the oxer is 3 inches shy of the final height for the stallions, as we ran out of standard to put the cups in. Is that not a good setup in your experience?

RugBug
Jan. 6, 2010, 02:13 PM
Though on distances, I have to say, the chute for the bay mare has the jump configuration and distances used in the American Trakehner Association's stallion candidate free jumping phase of inspection. The height on the oxer is 3 inches shy of the final height for the stallions, as we ran out of standard to put the cups in. Is that not a good setup in your experience?

Tannenwald...the chute for the bay mare looked fine. That's what I meant to convey...her chute was set decently, the other two, not good.

The height of the jump really doesn't matter to me and won't matter to most horses. If it can jump it, it can jump it. It's the distances between the jumps that's important to help them out. The distances for the bay mare were nice. The distance for the palominos were bad and you could see the horses struggling to get through because of it.

Tannenwald Trakehner
Jan. 6, 2010, 05:23 PM
Got it. Thanks ;)

acottongim
Jan. 6, 2010, 05:49 PM
FYI, the stallion Hirtentanz that I mentioned earlier was just approved today with the Holsteiner Verband in Germany (obviously)!!!!!

twotonejobber
Jan. 6, 2010, 06:09 PM
I have found reading this quite interesting. I have a Trak/Paint cross that I've had since he was 4 and is now coming 16. He is beautiful, moves well, jumps nicely/squarely and when given a good ride by me pins well over fences. Much of what people have said about Traks "quirks" hold true for my guy as well however. He can be a pretty spooky boy(very sensitive to sounds) and was late to mature. In fact he's turned into a great horse since turning 12! I wouldn't trade him for the world though despite his idiosyncracies, good thing I'm persistant(or crazy)!

Trak_Eventer
Jan. 6, 2010, 06:13 PM
I had the same question for Trak_Eventer -- what is her breeding? The mare is awesome and I love the description of her personality -- very much like my own Trak girls.

Thanks!!
Her name is Aurelia NSF (Gracie), 15.3hh, 2004 baby
Sire: Windfall II by Habitch out of Wundermadel xx
Dam: Actress by Avignon II out of Annelie.

Here she is running Novice this Feb at Rocking Horse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-xvneCpAMk
Running Training in Oct at Holly Hill (stadium)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5F8yzNNs50
Cross Country at the American Eventing Champs, Training Level
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsBVHQPuViQ

Tannenwald Trakehner
Jan. 6, 2010, 06:16 PM
Lovely, one that Tim and Cheryl bred! I adore Windfall (loved seeing him just hanging out, chilling between phases), and have had 3 Windfoals (in fact, I coined the term though Tim said he was going to steal it...). I love them all, but haven't seen any at work like your girl. She is very nice!

lilypondlane
Jan. 6, 2010, 08:08 PM
Impressive pedigree -- impressive horse! Congrats, Trak_Eventer!

stoicfish
Jan. 6, 2010, 09:17 PM
Some very cool stallions.
http://www.americantrakehner.com/Results/horseResults.asp?ID=OSB-E-S391
http://newspringfarm.com/windfall/index.html
http://www.frenchstallions.org/french_stallion_detail.php?stallion=2007014#cabdul a_02.jpg This boy is known to produce top jumpers
http://www.exclusiveequines.com.au/a_j/grafenstolz.htm

#10 in eventing is a Trak and there are at least 2 full Traks in the Dressage
http://www.wbfsh.org/?GB/Rankings/Stallion%20Ranking%202009.aspx

indygirl2560
Jan. 6, 2010, 09:47 PM
My friend bought a Trakehner gelding last year and I love him! He has such an adorable, loving personality and is curious about everything. He's somewhat high strung but his personality over shines his quirks. He's a decent mover with a cute, round, knees to chest jump, but I wouldn't place him against 'AA' show hunters; jumpers are a different story! With more training, he could make a nice B, occasional A, quality hunter. For his age, he's surprisingly quiet and when he does spook, he doesn't do anything overly reckless or stupid. Because of his brain and personality, I think he'll make a nice lower level hunter, and/or medium/upper level jumper(he's pretty scopey) with more training under his belt.

J-Lu
Jan. 6, 2010, 10:31 PM
Nine - Yup, 100% trak, the only trace of TB is his great great dam, which could account for the throwback look.

He actually looks a whole lot like his daddy. :)

http://www.gestuet-haemelschenburg.de/html/e_ikost.html
Hi Nickelodian,

Nice horse! What is the dam line?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that alot of the older-type traks bred in Europe were heavier and thicker than what is commonly seen today. I read that the specs of the original Trakehnen Stud called for sturdier horses and smaller horses than what is commonly seen today (which I guess might the same for all warmbloods). My mare's sire is a Mahagoni grandson out of an elite A-line mare. He went back to older-blood fast on both sides of his pedigree. He was large and thick but not coarse and had great movement, a powerful jump, and was the smartest but calmest horse ever.

It is also my understanding that some particularly hot breeding stock was imported to the US in the 70s and 80s, which partially led to the idea that Traks are hot.

I also agree that *most* traks are not known for their fabulous style over fences.

Trak_Eventer
Jan. 6, 2010, 10:54 PM
Some very cool stallions.
http://www.americantrakehner.com/Results/horseResults.asp?ID=OSB-E-S391
http://newspringfarm.com/windfall/index.html

I am obviously a big Windfall fan, and I love Titulus. He is on my possible hubby list for my girl.

Hitrentanz also has a killer jump! I remember reading an article in the ATA magazine written by Brad Kerbs, if I remember correctly, about how this was one of the best jumping horses he had ever seen at the German Verband inspections.
http://www.kdjumpers.com/Hirtentanz.html

I also remember seeing pictures of Platinum Vom Rappenhof jumping and he jumps very hunter.
http://rappenhof.com/sporthorse-stallions/platinum-vom-rappenhof-pb/

Hauwse
Jan. 7, 2010, 10:07 AM
And the reference to the Arab influence needs to be addressed. There is VERY LITTLE MODERN INFLUENCE OF THIS BREED! Any Arab or Tbred that is registerable has been through an inspection by the breed's foremost authorities. They are looking at whether or not a particular horse could potentially breed well with the modern Trakehner based on conformation, movement, and temperment. There are MANY Thoroughbred and Arabian horses that are NOT approved for breeding in the inspection process. The actual number of approved Arabians is EXtremely low. There is very strict criteria involved in this process that will exclude most. Once an Arab or Tbred mare has been approved, she can then breed to a registered stud and have a registerable foal. I must add that it is the responsibility of any buyer to research the history of any horse they might buy.


These numbers may be a little off, but I believe that in the 80's or so, there were around 40 Thoroughbred(XX) and 12 Arabian(XO) stallions included in the Trakehner stallion directory, out of approximately 350 stallions, not a very high percentage, and these stallions only received a small percentage of mares, approximately 5%.

The Thoroughbred blood numbers through 5 gens in the Trakehner SB is; 1st = 10%, 2nd = 15%, 3rd = 21%, 4th = 20%, 5th = 20%, no TB = 14%

The Arabian blood numbers through 5 gens in the Trakehner SB is; 1st = 9%, 2nd = 1.5%, 3rd = 8%, 4th = 15.2%, 5th = 18.7%, no Arabian = 55.7%

I personally think the Trakeher could use a little bit more Thoroughbred influence in some lines.

There is a reason all sport horses have varying degrees of Thoroughbred or Arabian blood in them, the Thoroughbred because of their proven and tested athletic ability provided by the industry they are bred for, and the Arabian because they are the foundation of the Thoroughbred.

Frequently when I see threads regarding breed/type there is a little edge to the tone when it comes to breeds used in development external to the registry or association in question which makes no sense to me. Many of the modern breeds or types we use in the industry would not exist if it were not for the infusion of TB's and Arabians. Many registries are proud of their accomplishments, and are proud to say that this TB sire was a foundation sire. Give credit where it is due. As owners we should have the same respect for the horses regardless of type that helped create the registries, after all the registry is in the end just a name for the culmination of a breeding program.

Sukey1971
Jan. 9, 2010, 12:55 PM
Traks are individuals like any other breed. I have noticed a lot of them don't have good front ends for hunters, but some do. There was a Danish trak showing in the A/O hunters a few years ago who had a great front end - I think his breeding was mostly Russian trak. He was a stallion but not ATA approved, don't know if he's still standing. And there are a lot more horses with trak blood around than most people realize - many horses by trak sires are not branded, and some people are breeding trak mares to non-trak warmblood stallions and calling the foals oldenburgs or hanoverians or whatever the sire is. And there is trak blood in a lot of popular WBs - Escapade, for example, has a sire who is inbred to one trak and a dam who is inbred to another.

IMHO the trak's bad reputation in the 1990s came from a triple whammy. Traks were about the first WBs imported into the US, some Canadians imported some in the 1960s and they were mostly all-around good-guy types. So when WBs first got popular in the 1970s and 80's trak stallions were about the only WBs around and they had reputations as being quieter than TBs, so people bred their hot TB mares, hoping for miracles. The resulting foals were anglo-traks but people were selling them as traks. Then there were a few stallions approved in that time period who shouldn't have been - I have heard experienced trak breeders admit this. Then also the Europeans weren't selling their top traks to us - they have admitted it. So the breed's reputation went downhill fast. The traks coming into the US now are good quality and there are more OSB mares around now so things are getting better.

Senior-rider
Jan. 9, 2010, 01:54 PM
I've got 2 of them, both geldings and they are very
different from each other from a personality point of
view, even though they are related - ones sire is the
other's grand-sire.

They are wonderful horses, but as with any breed, each horse is different.
Mine both have wonderful hunter jumping form.
Look at my profile picture and you'll see one of mine in the pre-green class
at Equifest last year.

As with people, you just cannot generalize, you should judge each one on its own merits.

pippa553
Jan. 9, 2010, 03:04 PM
My boy is turning five this year and is half Trakehner by Summertime. His first free jumping attempt was less then stellar. You can see it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGm4lZzd2IE . The video was taken before I owned him so I'm not sure why there is a vertical to a cross rail (maybe he was running the wrong way?). As far as personality goes when I first got him he was pushy pushy pushy on the ground and did not really lead. Thank goodness those days are over! He is a huge thinker and shows it. When overwhelmed I swear his eyes bulge. :lol:

Catomine
Jan. 9, 2010, 08:43 PM
I currently lease a Trak. myself and i love him. I never knew they were known for their hotness. My boy is the calmest sweetest thing ever, the only thing he ever spooked at was a cow and it wasn't even that bad of a spook. I won't lie he is a hard ride and it did take me a long time to figure him out, and I still kind of am. But from what I read here that seems like a common trait in this breed. He makes you work for what you want to get out of him but he never does anything that will cause you harm. The fact that he is 20 also might have something to do with how calm he is also. :lol:

Sounds like mine! He LOOKS easy but, he is not an easy ride! He definitely makes you work and doesn't give much for free, but it's worth it. Makes you a better rider, makes you appreciate when he goes perfectly that much more! He's more 'looky' rather than spooky. He's spooked a couple of times that I wasn't holding his attention, but he's really reasonable otherwise. I love him. Perfect for me!

2tempe
Jan. 9, 2010, 09:08 PM
Like others posting here, I have had good experiences w/ two Trak's. The first was an Abdullah-sired mare, big girl, who had quite nice form once the fences got to 3'3; anything else she could almost step over! She was to be my amat-owner horse, but unfortunately she did not stay sound. She was very sweet and trusting, though perhaps not the bravest soul in the world. The second I showed A-hunters, adults, and he had great form, also won the bulk of his hack classes in our area.

I know others who rule them out instantly, and I've seen some at area dressage shows (I've converted in my older years) that do not move particularly well. That said, I'm going in a week or so to look at a Trak mare as an upper level prospect who is currently about 4th level. We'll see!

TrakeGirl
Jan. 10, 2010, 08:19 AM
Love 'em - obviously! :)

Mine is best described as " A.D.D." - if Smartpak sold Ritalin, we'd be all over it.

But as another poster said - if you can find a way to hold their attention, nothing but smooth sailing. There is one particularly spooky (to him) corner of the arena and it doesn't matter how many times we ride in there - if we are just hacking around loose rein...he'll find a reason to spook over there and shoot across the ring, spin, etc.

However, if we go through the same corner...in a frame, working on bending, leg yielding, while maintaining pace...he's fine because his mind is engaged in his work.

He is SO smart and dumb at the same time. :)

acottongim
Jan. 10, 2010, 08:52 AM
L
But as another poster said - if you can find a way to hold their attention, nothing but smooth sailing. There is one particularly spooky (to him) corner of the arena and it doesn't matter how many times we ride in there - if we are just hacking around loose rein...he'll find a reason to spook over there and shoot across the ring, spin, etc.

However, if we go through the same corner...in a frame, working on bending, leg yielding, while maintaining pace...he's fine because his mind is engaged in his work.

He is SO smart and dumb at the same time. :)

Not really dumb after all.. he is looking for something to do and is bored. That is a good excuse. :lol:

I've found that with several of my horses and friend's horses. When they get bored they will invent things to do - some will be "sassy" and find ways to annoy you (open gates, flip tubs, etc), others will "find" reasons to "spook", others will figure it is a good day to "test" the rider and see what they can get aways with.... you get my drift. :winkgrin:

Personally I think it is the same with the "pushiness" Trakehners are not stupid horses and they know what they can get away with. 99% of the time I've been around a "pushy" TK it is because he owner allows the horse to be that way. For whatever reason - they don't discipline, they think it is cute when they are younger, they are afraid, whatever. You don't have to beat a horse to make them respect you, but you also don't ever let a TK think they are bigger/stronger than you LOL. I find the pushiness is just an extension of that brain always working. The ones that "got better" as they got older - the owner (be it a new owner or an old owner) stopped allowing it to happen.

Just my experience and I'm quite sure that there are exceptions to that experience!!!! :)

eventer_mi
Jan. 10, 2010, 10:39 AM
I see what CBoylen means about the jumping style of Traks. My boy tends to be high headed and although gets his knees up (when he's not bored by the size of the jump!), doesn't "drape" over his front end. (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2635927990053515467lavWCV) (Yes, I bought that picture; just didn't scan it in.) That said, he's an eventer, so I could hardly care less, as long as he's safe.

He's 3/4 Trak, although he's registered Oldenburg (by Oskar out of Maskottchen, who is a 1/2 Trak x 1/2 TB). When I bought him, he was so spooky and alert that I really wondered what I had gotten myself into - he had just been broken to saddle. Even though he was quite spooky, though, he would try his heart out for you. Today, approx. 2 years later, he's the easiest horse to handle in the barn full of eventers, personality plus and is always trying to climb into your pockets (he's a bit of a pest), and (I love this quote) "the quiestst spooky horse" under saddle. He rarely spooks, but when he does, he sort of goes alert and sidles by the object of suspicion. He's not the easiest ride because he's a bit of a wiggle worm, but he'll jump anything you point him at. He has a gorgeous, big, lofty canter - his best gait.

Oh, and acottongim hit the nail on the head - he's so curious that he's a pest. He was turned out in a field with xc jumps built into the fenceline, and they didn't plug in the hot tape, so he spent a lovely afternoon pulling the tape off each fence post, section by section, and then when he was done, he played King of the Mountain by climbing on top of the rolltop in the fenceline :rolleyes:. We also can't leave his stall door open because he'll try and drag the vacuum into the stall with him.

I adore him. He's the sweetest, most personable horse out there. He'll be my beginner husband's mount once he "retires" from competition with me. When I bought him, I took him to a BNT for a lesson and once she found out what breed he was, her response was "Oh, I'm so sorry." That's pretty typical of what I get when I tell people he's a Trak - they're incredulous because "he's so quiet!". I'm glad I didn't know about that breed stereotype before I bought him, or I might not have given him a chance.

Btw, he's a chestnut, Trak, and has a double-whorl on his forehead. So much for stereotypes.

Trakehner
Jan. 10, 2010, 11:36 AM
I'm biased...I think they're the best of the warmbloods...and the original warmblood too!

They more than meet you halfway. Ask a Trakehner to trot and you get the attitude, "Woohoo, let's go...how fast, how far?" You don't play the drums on their sides like a ton of Hannovarian.

Trakehners require a rider, they hate passengers. For the same reasons people complain about TBs, Arabs and Saddlebreds...they complain about Trakehners.

Leena
Jan. 10, 2010, 04:58 PM
I'm biased...I think they're the best of the warmbloods...and the original warmblood too!

They more than meet you halfway. Ask a Trakehner to trot and you get the attitude, "Woohoo, let's go...how fast, how far?" You don't play the drums on their sides like a ton of Hannovarian.

Trakehners require a rider, they hate passengers. For the same reasons people complain about TBs, Arabs and Saddlebreds...they complain about Trakehners.

I like this..

I have a couple of trakehner cross at home; I like their sensitivity, courage and intelligence.

The thread is interesting and informative; I really appreciate it.

trakehner013
Jan. 11, 2010, 01:04 PM
I have a trakehner mare by Abdullah and I absolutely love her. She has the best personality and she is the sweetest horse I have ever been around. She has had two foals and they also have really nice personalities.

Nickelodian
Jan. 11, 2010, 02:52 PM
Hi Nickelodian,

Nice horse! What is the dam line?



Hi, sorry I didn't see this post until now! Here is is entire pedigree

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/toujours9

His dam has produced some beautiful babies as well, I'm very very lucky to have my TJ. :)

Jessyka89
Jan. 11, 2010, 08:18 PM
I had one and LOVED him! He was super kind, easy to be around. I bought him as an 8 year old out of a field, he'd hardly been touched. He was a little limited on the scope and the movement...but the temperament was fantastic! Would love another one. He was an Advocate baby.

Horse Lover
Jul. 12, 2010, 10:11 PM
Well, after 20+ years of breeding, training, and riding Trakehners, I would not trade mine for the world -- temperament, character, sensibility, wortk ethics, athleticism, display of affection, love, bonding, ..... I think the following was very well stated on the IT site:

"We accept that the Trakehner is not the horse for everyone. However, those of us prejudiced in favor of this noble breed equate the intelligence and sensitivity to the difference between making an omlette and a souffle. Both are wonderful egg-based dishes, but the lightness and air of a perfect souffle requires patience and skill found only in the most accomplished chefs. A heavy hand ruins a souffle, but a light, deft touch - and perhaps a bit of poetry of soul - produces a little bit of heaven here on earth . . . the same can be said of our Trakehner"

My Trakehner boys (some stallions) are the easiest, kindest, most willing, fun and athletic horses I've ever had the privilege to meet -- and the honor to be chosen as their human companion. Thank goodness we have so many different breeds and types from which to choose -- mine simply happen to be the impeccable old line Trakehners we strive to preserve in this country... :) It's a wonderful "diverse universe"... :)

ReeseTheBeast
Jul. 13, 2010, 07:23 AM
I leased a Trakehner gelding many years ago. He was absolutely amazing... he could take you around a jumper course with amazing precision and balance; or he could hack out with the hunters like nobody's business. He was brave on the trails and jumping in the fields, too. His owner also did big Eq with him. Even now, I remain in admiration of him and the breed as a whole. :yes:

One of my best friends owns a QH/Trak cross and he. is. amazing. :yes:

Ozone
Jul. 13, 2010, 09:29 AM
Growing up I have admired the Trak from a far. Always wanted one but as a kid I remember someone telling me "Oh you don't want one of those, get you a good ol' TB and you cannot go wrong" ... stuck in my head for years now!

Do they make good dressage horses I wonder.

I also remember them being a breed or Nice or Nasty... no inbetween. Still, I wouldn't mind having one if anyone wants to give me theirs ;-)

Go Fish
Jul. 13, 2010, 12:01 PM
Traks also have a much more closed stud book, and have in the past added more TB and arab blood, so some of them can have a little more blood than your average warmblood.

I think you nailed it...

netg
Jul. 13, 2010, 12:47 PM
Do they make good dressage horses I wonder.

Totilas' sire Gribaldi was a trakehner.

(That'd be a big, fat, HUGE yes! :) )

Ozone
Jul. 13, 2010, 01:02 PM
I thought there was a superstar Trak out there but couldn't remember. I still secretly want one :D

Bugs-n-Frodo
Jul. 13, 2010, 01:10 PM
Frodo (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=866636&l=9dab2c81b5&id=617389791) (Feel free to look at all of the pics, Bugs is in there as well.)

This is my boy, Frodo, an Anglo Trakehner. He was not bred to jump, he was bred to dance. Infact, even though his mom LIVED to jump, he could care less so I have no pics of him jumping. He only does it to please me. I will say, he has a puppy dog personality. I bred him, delivered him, started under saddle and have done all of his training so I know him pretty darned well. :winkgrin: He spooks when I am not making him think, He can be sensitive, and he will give me 110%, even when everyone else is being fed while he works. He's a wonderful boy but I would never put a beginner on him. I love Trakehners and I love the fact that they are a thinking horse and a forward horse. You could call me a junkie. :lol:

Burgie
Jul. 13, 2010, 02:24 PM
I hadn't met a Trak that I'd liked until...

After a lot of searching, we found a 6 year old Trak mare for a friend. She is 16.3 and makes my 16.1 Oldenburg mare look like a sport pony. My mare can be an idiot. This mare takes it all in, can be a bit looky, but not spooky and is freaking athletic. Awesome jump. Very sweet and very inquisitive.

I'm a convert.

rugbygirl
Jul. 13, 2010, 02:31 PM
Trakehners require a rider, they hate passengers.

:yes:

Love 'em. In the process of acquiring a second.

Trakehner
Jul. 13, 2010, 02:40 PM
Traks are great at dressage...that is, higher level dressage. Long and low is not the forte for a Trakehher (or Lippizaner, Andalusian, Luisitano or Freisian)...they can do it but they're princes.

My 3-day horse was a gem...he'd be a challenge for me, requiring a rider and when I'd put a kid or husband on him, a puppy carefully balancing them. I'd put them on the boy in a ring and he'd go around once, stop where I was sitting-give me the "are they done yet?" look and I'd point and go, "Gowon, one more time" and he'd make another loop.

My guy's mom was a full sister to Abdullah (bred by G. Schikendanz in Canada also). Abdullah was so foul on the ground, he almost didn't make his certification...he really was a weenie as a youngster. He was my horse of a lifetime. We even got a full page photo of us in Equus...woohoo! I was proud of him.

Bogie
Jul. 13, 2010, 03:08 PM
My 3-day horse was a gem...he'd be a challenge for me, requiring a rider and when I'd put a kid or husband on him, a puppy carefully balancing them. I'd put them on the boy in a ring and he'd go around once, stop where I was sitting-give me the "are they done yet?" look and I'd point and go, "Gowon, one more time" and he'd make another loop.



My horse was the same. He took my husband on some great trail rides and was very safe but I swear he rolled his eyes at me whenever my husband rode.

webmistress32
Jul. 13, 2010, 03:32 PM
I have a 1/2 Trak, his other 1/2 is Hungarian Calvary horse (Kisber-Felver)

I had a friend who recently made the mistake of telling me that my talentless horse would never go past 2nd Level dressage due to the inherent problems with his breed's subpar conformation and lack of mindset for the job ... what a shame she had to go and misjudge my horse so badly. I will miss her ...

meanwhile ... my boy was very spooky and suspicious as a youngster. I have known him since he was a foal and brought him home as 6 year old unhandled / unstarted eventing and dressage prospect. to say he was not a pleasant addition to my barn at first would be an understatement. he was very shy, nervous about most things he didn't understand and loved to chase, herd and annoy the rest of my horses all day long!

I started him myself with the help of a local trainer who taught me how to train him :-) After six months we graduated from ground work to riding.

I'll never forget standing on the mounting block that day, remembering how six months before he had freaked out with me on the block and went bucking off, trying to jump the 8' cow panels that made up the round pen we were working in with Michael Richardson. six months of ground work. I learned So Much about my boy in that time and how he thought and what he liked and I think he learned a lot about me, too.

So there I stood. Reins in my left hand. My right hand on the cantle of the saddle. And he turned his head to look at me and clear as though he could talk, he said "it's time! hop on, let's ride!!" and we did! :-)

personality. Check. hardworking. Check. likes to think. Check. will partner with you? Double Check.

This horse is the horse I have been waiting for my whole life! and his Potential? hell me and my awful 46yo re-rider riding are the only limit to his potential :D I have had him now for four years, we ribbon regularly at the local dressage schooling shows @ training and we have evented at the very lowest levels. I'm sure he could do more but hey! I'm not going to the Olympics. I wanted a talented, athletic horse that was beautiful and who I could trust and be my best friend. he is all of those things and more. as I like to say "I know he could jump higher, compete at higher levels but I deserve a nice horse and I'll waste his potential all I like!!"

I don't know if it's his 1/2 Trak that makes him the coolest, best, smartest horse in the world. but I do love him. oh and his Grandfather is Schoefeld.

Picture:
http://images47.fotki.com/v1454/photos/7/1050837/7922423/FAF9D187d01-vi.jpg

Bugs-n-Frodo
Jul. 13, 2010, 03:33 PM
I must clarify that the reason I would not put a beginner on is BECAUSE he needs to be thinking about what he's doing. Constant circles bore him and he'll find something to do. :lol:

Dance_To_Oblivion
Jul. 13, 2010, 06:23 PM
I must clarify that the reason I would not put a beginner on is BECAUSE he needs to be thinking about what he's doing. Constant circles bore him and he'll find something to do. :lol:

Very much like my mare! She loathes walking trail rides...they are soooo boring. So she finds ways to express this :rolleyes: I have literally taking her from a horrible trailride into the ring and felt her almost breathe a sigh of relief and get straight to work and be so happy. Interestingly the first time I took her cross country schooling she thought we were trailriding and began her bored behavior until we started working and jumping. She immediately settled and had a blast. Even the trainer we were with was surprised by her!

I love this mare but she is smart and needs to be kept busy! I agree with what a previous poster about Trakehners requiring a rider not a passenger!

2tempe
Jul. 13, 2010, 08:22 PM
I had two trakehners during my hunter days; one was an Abdullah daughter; she was absolutely the sweetest, most interpersonal mare I have known, and was quite nice over fences - provided they were big enough, as she was every bit of 17 hands and wanted to step over the smaller ones. Sadly she did not stay sound long enough to be my ammy owner horse.
After that I leased another, this one a gelding, who had both beautiful form and was incredibly competitive in the hack. He also had an excellent disposition.
Neither was hot, though many are. I love the breed and almost bought a Trak. dressage mare this winter - but she didn't vet. That all said, you dont see a lot of them.

My opinion is that somehow Trakehner breeders have not focused so much on the qualities that are desired in the Hunter ring or the Dressage ring, not sure why... and its just an impression. Maybe I think that because of the Arab blood.

One of the nicest trakehner stallions just passed away; his name was Gribaldi and he was an outstanding Grand Prix dressage horse as well as an influential sire used by other warmblood breeders.

Trakehner
Jul. 14, 2010, 07:53 AM
I showed a Trakehner in Europe, mostly England and Germany. I got comments from the German riders of "Don't let his antlers catch on the jump!" (referring to the Tempelhuter brand on his butt). They seemed to snark at the breed. Made beating them all the sweeter.

Bugs-n-Frodo
Jul. 14, 2010, 02:03 PM
They seemed to snark at the breed. Made beating them all the sweeter.

:yes::winkgrin:

Holly Jeanne
Jul. 14, 2010, 04:04 PM
My girl has just started with a hunter trainer as she told me she didn't want to be a dressage horse. :lol: Unfortunately, I no longer jump.

Anyway, this trainer grew up doing the equitation and has been a working students for a couple of A hunter/jumper folks. Everytime I talk to her she tells me my girl is one of the nicest horses she's ever been on. This jump isn't challenging her but, hey, she'd only been jumping about a month:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2020185&id=59301502#!/photo.php?pid=31031640&id=59301502

Knees could be tighter but a little more height and experience is helping that. ;) And she is quiet, quiet, quiet. I have a photo of her at her second show ever (first over fences) dozing right near the ingate. She's also done a sensory clinic and I have a photo of her trotting past a huge scary balloon being held up by a noisy generator. Oh, and she's by Hennessey (sire of Zarr and Zealous) out of a TB so there be hunter in that background. :lol: She just showed in U/S classes in her first show and was ridden by a junior rider who had never ridden her before. (with a respectable 3rd of 12). So not a crazy Trakehner!

Sukey1971
Jul. 14, 2010, 11:00 PM
Well, one OSB, one Anglo-trak and one ORB-but-eligible-for-OSB mare. The OSB was very quiet, somewhat lazy. Unfortunately he died young so I didn't get to jump him. The Anglo-trak had enough personality for three horses. He was by the same sire as the OSB. as a foal he loved to play with his ball, would try to climb into the driver's seat of tractors and Gator trucks, was very mouthy (he was inbred to Bull Dog xx so that may explain it). He had a lot more energy and a dominant personality. He ended up being an event horse. He had a wonderful canter, jumped in decent form, and would keep the same step all the way to the fence and seemed to have an eye of his own even as a baby greenie.

The mare is on the lazy side but will go if you ask her. She is a Hadrian daughter so she has a steady, sane personality, not mare-ish at all. Same horse every time you get on her. Smallish and not a lot of scope but a good mover and honest jumper. Quick learner, very trainable, loves to be praised.

All were friendly, in-your-pocket types who love to be groomed and wanted attention from people. The OSB would hang his front foot through a wire fence and pretend to be caught in the fence in order to get attention. The Anglo-trak would nip,kick in his stall, and pick up things and swing them around to get attention. The mare paws and gives you long looks if she wants attention.

Agree that many traks don't jump in show hunter form, but there are some that do.

ghetss261
Jul. 15, 2010, 05:22 AM
GREAT..>>!

AnnaCrew
Jul. 15, 2010, 07:28 AM
Traks who I now here...

I have one cross of everything with a lot of Traks from both sides
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/inka101

She has a tude - as somebody pointed before - she needs a rider, not a passenger.

It took a long time to get her trust and become our friend - now she will follow you as a dog.

One of her half sisters was unrideable for everyone except a granny at 70 something - she carried granny everywhere and would die for her.
Just a character. Her sire was known for his gooood jump and hard character :)

There are also few others with not so much tude but still - needs a rider. Trak mare that DH was training on still can jump 180 cm fences. But again - needs a rider and does not accept mistakes.

The nicest Traks I saw in Lithuania, Nemunas stud (http://www.litrakehner.lt/). We were invited in each stallion's box to communicate and they all were really sweet, human oriented without bad stallion behavior issues. They do have some really good sires there and babies are going out like hot pies. :)

fish
Jul. 15, 2010, 07:51 AM
I've only had extensive dealings with one Trakehner, who matched Chandra's description 100%.

Pennywell Bay
Jul. 15, 2010, 09:43 AM
I have had 4 foals by the same Trak stallion/mare cross ( one is on the line in my profile). All are great jumpers/movers but the 3 were what I call "fiercely loyal", almost dog like to me. One has actually gone on to make quite a name for himself, doing well in the IHF and on the circuit in Florida, Unmistakable.

Holly Jeanne
Jul. 15, 2010, 09:52 AM
Lovely Pennywell! Bloodlines? :)

Pennywell Bay
Jul. 15, 2010, 10:13 AM
Thank you, Holly Jeanne!! Out of a Fabled Monarch/tb mare and sired by Zarr. The funny thing about Unmistakable is his coloring ( he has the big white "boot of Italy" on his side). I think he is still at Ravenwood in Fl. I have had 2 blingy bays, a paint and a blingy ches by this cross.

findeight
Jul. 15, 2010, 10:16 AM
IMO it's a mistake to look at bloodline or a brand on the hip and assume anything with any horse, you need to look at that horse and it's specific performance. And there is a whole lot to be said for how they were started and who started them, alot of horses get teminally screwed up by incompetent handling earlly on in their training. Not the fault of any breed or type.

That said, Cboylen was right waaaay back on page 1 of this. For elite level Hunters, MOST of the Traks just lack the style to look good over any substantial fences. Otherwise they are as good as their riding and training allows them to be.

She also mentioned Hollywood, was around that one alot when I was doing the AAs and have also known about 3 other Traks showing at that level. Lets say you would need to have that riding and training in place or you are in for a long day. But pretty good horses overall.

I can ride and have access to good training so wouldn't thumb my nose at one...IF it could jump like a good Hunter in good competition. It might also be a place to look on more of a budget if you have the tools available.

rugbygirl
Jul. 15, 2010, 11:44 AM
The Trakehner breed got kind of a bad start in North America...there were a few stallions here in the earlier years who were terrible. One in Canada is sometimes blamed for nearly killing the breed here with his total lack of trainability yet high numbers of offspring (was used in a major breeding operation for many years.) I can see why they weren't pursued in the breeding programs of Show Hunter people, not to mention that terrible Arabian-blood thing hanging over them. It's supposed to be tricky enough to breed consistent Hunter traits without gambling on animals who have a rough reputation.

The jumping style and ability of the Trakehner is readily apparent in digging into the quality lines of certain Dutch warmbloods and other registries. "Hidden" Trakehners abound.

I wish I had detailed names for you, but I just skimmed some of the linked pedigrees...I have no memory for pedigrees. I was surprised at how many names I recognized.

Holly Jeanne
Jul. 15, 2010, 12:30 PM
Well that explains it! I have two Hennessey (sire of Zarr) daughters myself. :lol:

RyuEquestrian
Jul. 24, 2010, 10:23 AM
I just wanted to share a video I took 2 days ago of our 2009 Hennessey x Schoenfelder colt. He's really coming along!

Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vBfWbBgR-8)
Link to his page for more pictures: http://sakurahillfarm.com/horses.php?HOID=55