Has anyone bred to these ATA stallions?

[Mkelle11]

Mostly from Valhalla Farms- Stiletto (Martini, out of Suprecocious by Abdullah)
Incantare (Enrico Caruso, out of Icon by Martini)
Pavarotti (Enrico Caruso, out of Pepper by Donaufurst)
or Tradition (Butow, out of Taurose by Graditz)?

Has anyone bred to these stallions and what did you think of the foals, especially if you had a heavier mare? The mare we are going to breed is an older-type, heavier mare, with a rather coarse head, and I would be going for an Eventer, so ideally I'd like to lighten her up as well as pretty up her head. Her conformation is pretty good, although she isn't up to competition or heavy riding anymore due to an injury that went down to the tendon sheath when she was younger. She's an Approved ATA Studbook mare. She's by Adler II (Polish) and out of Lakritze, who's by Mikado and out of Lilofee IV, if that matters at all.

Thanks!

[risingstarfarm]

Does it count that I was planning on breeding to Stiletto, lol.

Things didn't work out on my side, but Jean was absolutely awesome to work with and I love every Stiletto foal that I've seen.

[TwinGates]

Mostly from Valhalla Farms- Stiletto (Martini, out of Suprecocious by Abdullah)
Incantare (Enrico Caruso, out of Icon by Martini)
Pavarotti (Enrico Caruso, out of Pepper by Donaufurst)
or Tradition (Butow, out of Taurose by Graditz)?

Has anyone bred to these stallions and what did you think of the foals, especially if you had a heavier mare?

Thanks!

I agree with Ronda the Stiletto *Pb* foals I've seen are quite good. Versatile with very good work ethics, and Jean is one of the classiest breeders you'll ever meet or hope to deal with.

Haven't seen any Incantare foals or riding horses, so can't comment.

The Pavarotti's I've seen are incredibly sweet and typey. Haven't seen anything but foals, but my what gorgeous faces! New owner Sherry Tourino has an '09 Pavi colt good enough she's planning to raise as a stallion prospect.

Tradition *Pb* - one of the 'hidden jewels' of the ATA. An accomplished sport horse, he is one of 3 ATA stallions to earn their performance designation in eventing (the other 2 being Amiego *Ps*E* and Windfall *Pb*). As a sire, he's produced exceptional foal after exceptional foal, including USDFBC HOY Champions (all breeds) and is the only one of the 4 listed here to have produced an ATA (and RPSI)-approved son, Cardinali.

[sixpoundfarm]

My friend owns a full sibling to Tradition, and she is a super mare. Great temperament and rideabilty, pretty and a nice mover. She currently events her, I am not sure of the level, but she is very happy with the mare.

[EventingChase]

I have a 2009 Stiletto Filly. My mare was not heavy per say but almost stock horse in type being a 15 hand slightly downhill, appy mare. Stiletto really improved on her build and her filly has a lovely neck and shoulder. She is built uphill and while she has good bone is quite refined and feminine. She is also completly charming and very smart. Jean was great to work with and so far I have been thrilled with what I have on the ground. At the bottom of the link there are some pictures.... She has gotten even more elegant since these were taken.
http://www.coyotecreekfarm.net/Spot_On.html

[acottongim]

Seen Stiletto many times and have seen many of his foals. They tend to be very good jumpers and very typey with good movement. Some are better than others of course. I am not sure what the mares are like so not sure what comes from the mare or the stallion, but the jump and type seems to be pretty consistent. I actually like Stiletto more NOW than I did a few years ago. And as Eventing Chase said, the toplines are quite good on the ones I've seen.

Incantare doesn't have very many foals on the ground. There was a while where for whatever reason it was difficult for him to ship. Jean was only doing on farm covers with him. She told me over the summer that they played with extenders, collections etc and feels that they have things figured out and have shipped him with success this year. She felt comfortable saying that he will ship to put him in the SSA for fresh shipped as well as on farm. She is VERY gung ho on this boy and had great things to say about movement, type, temperment, and athletic ability. I haven't seen any of the foals though (that I know of) so can't comment on him.

I will say Jean is one of the most "up front" type of SO to deal with. She will tell you exactly what the deal is and knows her horses and what they produce. She's been in this biz a LONG time and has a great eye and is no nonsense. (for example she was very honest about Incantare and shipping him). Call her and ask about her boys.

Pavarotti. I did see him and a couple of foals when I went to CA a couple of years ago. I actually liked Sherry's other stallions a bit more, but Pavi was a nice moving, friendly stallion with good presence. I thought him a bit heavy but that is my personal taste and not shared by all. The foals I saw (and I'm stretching back into my hazy mind here) were similiar to dad, maybe a touch more refined. I seem to remember liking the foals more than the stallion - sorry, but I was really more focused on the other boys/foals there. I am very good friends with the girl that has the very first two Pavi foals ever though. Long story on how it came about, but one of my friends in OH bred two mares - both heavy boned and med sized mares (around 16 hh give or take a bit) to him. The resulting foals are both large in size - both were around 18 hh when they were not quite 4, and both had good bone. Lisa said that they were both friendly and one was a better mover (out of the mare that was the better mover) but she always described them as "mooses" LOL. Not to say that they were horrible but they were big.

Sherry is also a great SO and is honest - I'd talk to her to get a feel for what she has and what might work for you.

Kim summed it up about Tradition. Carol is another SO to talk to on that one. I don't know a lot of people that have babies by him (they seem to be mainly up around the Maine area where he is from for whatever reason) so can't comment on what he throws, but do like the photos of the ones that i've seen and those that have them LOVE them. I know she gets plenty of repeat breedings off him.

[Oakstable]

My trainer is a young eventer. She bred her TB mare to Pavarotti and Fandango. I can ask her for similarities and differences.

[Mkelle11]

Ooh- 18 hands? This mare is about 16.2 already, and although her mother was barely tall enough to be legal (About 15.3) she threw all over the board height-wise, even with the same stallion. (Example: 16 hand and 17.2 hand full siblings) We don't know if this mare would do the same, and the fact it would be her first might work for us, but I'm personally a little leery of anything that adds a lot of height- I'm only 5'3", and not the bravest (Which is why it makes so much sense for me to Event! LOL.) so really I'd like something 17.2 or below. Actually, if a stallion wasn't known for adding height I wouldn't discount him for a second, considering the mare is already decent sized.

[acottongim]

Then of your 4 choices my personal opinion would be to go with Tradition or Incantare. Not sure if Stiletto consistently ADDS size, but his foals were all tall that I have seen (as in long legged - but very refined/modern type not klunky) and like I said, my friend's mares both had HUGE colts. She even kept them intact extra long hoping that prolonging gelding would help keep the size down (old wives tale) and it didn't work. The mare's weren't tiny but they weren't huge mares themselves.

[Mkelle11]

Hm. Ok. I've contacted Stiletto and Incantare's owner- Who we pick, overall, really probably will have a lot on what the auction looks like Febuary 13th, sad to say.

Kind of off-topic, but I don't want to start another thread- Which one of these bloodlines do you like better? These are the two mares we would breed (One being the back-up) and although my mother thinks they are nice, she bred them, and she's been "out of it" for awhile.

Lalka: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/lalka
Funtawatch ("Bambi"): http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/funtawatch

Thanks!