Section B Welsh Pony Stallions that throw size!

[hrfponies]

I'm looking for a pony stallion for a 12.1 mare. This is my first venture into pony breeding, so I need some guidance! The mare has a lot of downland breeding, by a Carolina's mare. She is 12- 12.1 and a 3 year old. I would like to get her started and established first, but am already thinking of some stallions for her. Would I be pushing the limit if I tried to get a medium from her, due to her size? Or would I be able to breed her to a bigger sec. B with the hopes of a medium?? The mare has 10 movement and a great temperment. But I would like to add more bone and height to her. Any stallion suggestions??

[Daventry]

I would suggest Empire's Power. His owner posts on here and would be able to give you a better idea of what size you may end up with. He's a Section K Welsh (Welsh cross) stallion imported from Holland and I think he's just under 14.3 HH.

[hrfponies]

So if he is half welsh, will the foal then have to be registered half welsh as well?

[Daventry]

So if he is half welsh, will the foal then have to be registered half welsh as well?

Yes

[Daventry]

My only other suggestion is to go with something like a British Riding Pony Stallion. The problem is, if you are trying to produce a pony hunter prospect and your mare is only 12.1 HH, you may be limited on the Section B stallions you can use.

The height limit for Section B's in the UK is 13.2 HH. The height limit for the B's in the United States is 14.2 HH (14 HH in Canada). But personally speaking, once they start going over 13.2 HH, they start to lose their type (coarser heads, etc.). So, while you could breed to a 14.1 HH Section B stallion (there are VERY few), you may end up with a size you prefer, but may lose the cute factor and correctness.

So, if you are striving for a medium or large, you're better off going to a cross bred or another breed of pony that might thrown you more height on your small mare, like the Section K Welsh or the BRP.

[VirginiaBred]

So if he is half welsh, will the foal then have to be registered half welsh as well?


Empire's Power isn't considered half welsh in America. Patty says he's a Section K, which the Welsh Pony & Cob Society doesn't recognize so you wouldn't be able to register it.

I know the OP asked for a Section B stallion. I'd recommend one that Nancy Reed stands:
http://www.landsendfarm.com/

[rideagoldenpony]

I definitely agree with what Daventry wrote....

As far as bigger B stallions, Rollingwoods has one:
http://www.rollingwoodsfarm.com/elliott.html

He seems like he's produced some ponies that have done well for them. If you like his kind of pedigree, he would be one to consider.

[hrfponies]

I would like to have the welsh registry option as we enjoy the welsh pony shows. My students have a blast and its a great place to take the babies for experience. But the goals is to produce a hunter pony that is going to be fancy but have enough rideability for children. Do you know the size on the stallion at Lands End??

[Daventry]

Empire's Power isn't considered half welsh in America. Patty says he's a Section K, which the Welsh Pony & Cob Society doesn't recognize so you wouldn't be able to register it.



I was assuming the OP's mare was a registered Section B Welsh. If so, you would be able to register the foal and get Half Welsh papers regardless. If the mare isn't registered, the only way to get Welsh papers would be to breed to a purebred Welsh.

[Daventry]

The one at Land's End, Cottrell Amadeus, can't be all that big as his pedigree consists of mostly under 13.0 HH. I'd be surprised if you get a lot of size out of that pedigree.

I also second Rollingwoods Easy As L. I've seen many of his babies and loved them all. He's 14.0 HH and a purebred Section B. You may have heard of some of his babies, Gayfields Miss Lydia Pinkham and Gayfields L O Dolly, who have done extremely well on the Welsh circuit and at Devon. Rollingwoods is very nice to work with too!

[VirginiaBred]

I also second Rollingwoods Easy As L. I've seen many of his babies and loved them all. He's 14.0 HH and a purebred Section B. You may have heard of some of his babies, Gayfields Miss Lydia Pinkham and Gayfields L O Dolly, who have done extremely well on the Welsh circuit and at Devon. Rollingwoods is very nice to work with too!


I love this one also!!! :yes:

[hluing]

You might consider a German Riding Pony

[Dressage_Diva333]

You might consider a German Riding Pony

I agree. They tend to be fairly typey, and run about 14hands-ish.

I LOVE hluing's young stallion :yes::D

[cmdrcltr]

Not very close to you, but my friend's stallion is very typey and 13.1.

http://www.moosemeadowponies.biz/ned.html

[Windswept Stable]

I would suggest Empire's Power. His owner posts on here and would be able to give you a better idea of what size you may end up with. He's a Section K Welsh (Welsh cross) stallion imported from Holland and I think he's just under 14.3 HH.

Thank you Daventy. Yes, Empire's Power can upsize your mare and should accomplish the goals.
He is 69% welsh, but the Welsh K is not recognized in US.
However, if YOUR mare is full welsh-- then the foal can be registered half welsh thru her.
If your mare is not registered, you would need to use a purebred welsh so that you can get half papers.
Trying to get a good size medium, perhaps may be hard if not impossible with a section B to a small mare.

Best wishes.

[Sugarbrook]

:yes: :yes: :yes: I agree.

[Summerwood]

I have to agree with Daventry, you have to be really careful when you are looking at the taller welsh ponies, they often do tend to lose their type and therefor probably some of the very qualities you like so much in your little mare (especially the head). The thing that I like about Empire's Power is not only his height but he looks like he also has good bone, which is many times harder to find in the taller ponies, who can sometimes look like mini tb's. In my opinion, some (NOT ALL) of the Downland ponies tend to have that look. You mentioned you wanted to add bone to your downland bred pony so that would be a plus for Empire's Power. I was going to suggest Salvandi Jazzman (half-welsh, 14.1 1/2) from Rosmel but I reread your post and I don't think he would have the bone you want. I have not seen him in person but from the photos he looks a bit light for a cross on a lighter mare. R. Easy as L is a nice pony too and could be a nice cross, and your resulting foal would be purebred.
Best of luck to you.

[Sugarbrook]

Is the mare a purebred, or did I miss that bit of info?

[VirginiaBred]

I'm looking for a pony stallion for a 12.1 mare. This is my first venture into pony breeding, so I need some guidance! The mare has a lot of downland breeding, by a Carolina's mare. She is 12- 12.1 and a 3 year old.

If she is a purebred, I'd suggest Meadowbrook's Special Edition. Richard Taylor stands him and he's wonderfully bred, a crossbred and 14.1 1/2. I know the stallion well and he will give you the size you need for a medium for your first foal. Here is his pedigree:

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/meadowbrooks+special+edition

Lovely stallion - be sure to check out his photo there. :)

[quicksilverponies]

Tiffany, You should come see my new buckskin colt. He will be a solid 13.2 or more and is very typey with a lovely head and neck. He has some good size to his pedigree and should produce some larger purebreds. He is a lovely mover and has an impecable pedigree http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/barkmeadow+gold+mine. Cottrell Amadeus is lovely and a really nice mover, but he is about 13hh. I have seen him in person and he is a super pony. I also have a really nice gelding by Rollingwoods Easy As L that I just love. Since you are close, you are welcome to come by sometime and see the colt and the gelding. Here are some photos of the colt.

[hrfponies]

Thank you everyone for your replies. I know there was some question if my mare was registered and yes she is.

All the suggestions seem like good ones! I have started to look into several of them more closely.

Melinda, I should stop by to see your boy! I love his color....I've always had a thing for buckskin ponies.
:winkgrin:

[farmgirl88]

Since your mare is full welsh, you would able to bred to empires power for a reg 1/2 welsh foal. I would definately definately consider Easy as L. A friend of mine is leasing a large by him and she is TERRIFIC and one of the best jumpers i've seen...AND the pony had really nice welsh type. Rollingwoods is great, went to dinner with them a few times quite a few years ago and they are just awsome.

I'd look into a registered 1/2 welsh sires also. I think this pony would be pretty marketable for bloodlines as the dam would be full welsh and the sire would be registered 1/2 welsh. i tend to notice that a lot of the section B bred 1/2 welshies have great welsh type, especially when crossed with TB's, they keep that elegant look and the elegant movement contributed to both sides.

Best of luck.

[BelladonnaLily]

VirginiaBred would probably know better about this, but you might try Farnley Belshazzar. I bred a 14.1 1/2 h. mare to him and got a 14.1h gelding. I have heard from others as well that he tends to throw size. My mare's breeding, and other foal, show no signs that the size came from her.

[VirginiaBred]

That he does! He's perfect, in my opinion. The best hunter pony stallion in the country.

:yes:

[crownridgefarms]

My section B welsh stallion Fydlyn Adlais is right up to height 13.2. When he was bred to smaller mares he has thrown size. I have bred him to my 12.2 welsh B mare, and expect a medium. He is lovely - temperament, look and movement are all there. He has been turned out with mares and is now right beside mares with no electric. He is fabulous!
PM if you would like some more info.

[SilverBalls]

Tiffany, You should come see my new buckskin colt. He will be a solid 13.2 or more and is very typey with a lovely head and neck. He has some good size to his pedigree and should produce some larger purebreds. He is a lovely mover and has an impecable pedigree http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/barkmeadow+gold+mine. Cottrell Amadeus is lovely and a really nice mover, but he is about 13hh. I have seen him in person and he is a super pony. I also have a really nice gelding by Rollingwoods Easy As L that I just love. Since you are close, you are welcome to come by sometime and see the colt and the gelding. Here are some photos of the colt.

Don't forget your boy Land's End Adagio... he is all that! :yes:

[quicksilverponies]

Thanks Bill! And of course, I agree:). Adagio is producing some nice big foals as well and he is a solid 13.1hh. I didn't mention him only because, Tiffany, the OP, has seen him here in person, but not the buckskin. Sadly, so many of the top stallions on the Leading Sires list are either deceased or getting fairly old with breeding issues. I am very happy to have Adagio to carry on in his famous father's footsteps.

[VirginiaBred]

Sadly, so many of the top stallions on the Leading Sires list are either deceased or getting fairly old with breeding issues.


:(

[Daventry]

Sadly, so many of the top stallions on the Leading Sires list are either deceased or getting fairly old with breeding issues.

Our stallion Penrhyn Sporting Chance finished #10 on the USEF Leading Pony Hunter Sire List this year...and he's going on 23 years young! Most people that venture out to our farm are sure he's in his early teens!

[yellowpony]

We have a big B stallion, he is 14.1 hands. We don't advertise him much as he stands live cover only. He was a driving pony and competed at FEI level for several years. He produces really wonderful ponies, all of them are very easy and fun to be around.

This is him (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=35182463&l=3df9b04110&id=39607053)

again (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=34199586&l=5bc583e6db&id=39607053)

Here's one of his kids (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=35174672&l=48cb1e744d&id=39607053) - He's the grey pony in the lead. He drove in the lead of the tandem for three weeks and then went to a show. This guy is 14.1 out of a 12.3 Downland bred mare.

I guess some people might say Ziggy is 'off type' but I think he's the bee knees! Something to think about.

[ICURLOOKING]

You might want to check out maplesidefarm.com and hobbiehorsefarm.com They each have a large crossbred pony stallion that have great bloodlines and have produced lovely babies.

[pwynnnorman]

Not wanting to put a damper on, especially with what some might think of as just an old wives' tale, but there is something called the "first foal syndrome," which can (if you believe the wives' tale) result in a smaller first foal than you'd expect.

Also (and, again, sorry for the damper) I must admit I've always avoided going for size with the first foal. I don't know all that much about straight pony breeding, as I'm more involved with mostly TB blood, but just talking to breeders in general, I've found some concensus that things are more likely to go a bit haywire on the first foal, making going for greater size more risky.

I've absolutely no proof of either of these things! However, I feel obliged to at least mention them since they do come up a lot in conversation.

[hluing]

I have found the "first foal syndrome" as you call it to be VERY true. I try to use it to my advantage and breed to a SLIGHTLY bigger stallion than I would otherwise for the mares first foal. That has worked very well.

With reguards to your other concern (dystocias with first pregnacies). The largest I have gone with the stallion is a hand larger than the mare. Ironicly, the only dystocia I have had was when a 15+hh big bodied and big boned mare was bred to a 14.1hh modern pony stallion. Go figure....

[quicksilverponies]

With my purebred pony mares I have not really experienced the "first foal syndrome" per se. I generally do not breed to stallions that are extremely different in size to the mare, but for example, I had 2 maiden mares foal this past year. One is 13.3 bred to 13.1hh Adagio - the resulting filly was born fairly large and looks like she will finish right about 13.2 compared to others I have raised. The other mare is 12.1hh and bred to 12.2hh Rondo the filly is also right on target to be about 12.2. Both mares are fairly big bodied for their sizes and I do think that makes a difference.

[Kareen]

Hailfax!! Not sure he is being frozen though. He definitely produces both type and size. Not many Sec.B's out there that have a breeding record like this :)
We had a colt foal by him out of our 12.2 Mintfield mare and he looks to mature to 13.2 minimum if not taller.

[hrfponies]

About the first foal syndrome, I have seen it in friends foals, but my Trak. mares first foal is now a coming 2 year old and he is huge! Probably almost 16hands. Mom is 15.3 and dad 16.2 so I think he will be the right size!

Boy, this is hard making a decision!! Thank you everyone for your input! I will let you all know who the lucky man will be once I have more time to look over all stallion choices and talk with stallion owners!