Tell me about Fleetwater Opposition

[TSHEventing]

Clearly his offspring history speaks for itself, but what type of mares does he cross best with? What are the temperaments of his offspring like? What are his weak points? What is he most likely to improve in a mare?

I have an ISH mare (7/8 TB) who is big bodied, great brain, somewhat clumsy, incredible power but difficult to collect due to a fairly long back. She is weaker behind, great bone, great feet, good length of neck. Good mover but it could use improvement. She has babamist and Caro bloodlines.

She has been bred three times, twice with live and once with fresh all successful.

I am looking at Formula One and Fleetwater Opposition. I am hesitant about fleetwater due to the frozen semen and because he is mostly trakhener, but it seems as though many of his offspring are still "TB" enough to make the time on XC.

Thanks!

[JER]

Kanga and jhodkin who post here have bred to him on more than one occasion -- you might PM them if they don't see this thread. I did meet one of Kanga's youngsters and all signs pointed to a well-mannered, sensible young horse.

I wouldn't worry about an FO x mostly-TB making the time. He crosses very well with that type of mare and his offspring that I've seen really cover ground well. Opposition Buzz has racked up his share of Best-Conditioned awards at the CCI**** level. Summersong was very fast as well.

I'm sure you're aware there isn't much FO semen left in the US. This year is probably last call for him.

Also, frozen semen isn't a huge deal if you have a good, thorough, conscientious reproductive vet. Your mare isn't a maiden, so you know she's fertile and capable of conceiving.

(I like Formula One too but your post wasn't inquiring about him. :))

[FMulder]

Firstly, Oppositions offspring speak for him as a sire, he's a world top 20 stallion.

Secondly, never ever discount a trakehner as a sire for eventing. Outside tb, trakehner will come next in importance for eventer breeding. Opposition, his son Yarlands Summersong, Windfall and Grafenstolz all testify that Traks are super for eventing.

Traks were almost invented for eventing, being created to carry army officers over large distances quickly with stamina, comfortably, able to jump obstacles and maintain a proud look deserving of someone of that rank. Eventing was created as a military test for horses, and in Holland is still called a military test. Sounds like the breed and the discipline were actually made for each other.

By the description of your mare, a trak stallion will do her the world of good, try one.

[Sacha]

I know Opoosition's breeder well, and by all accounts he was a very talented horse but not the easiest tempermaent wise, and his offpsring tend to be very much the same. If you get them channelled correctly you have a real star on your hands, but they wouldn't suit everyone.

I love the Trakehner athleticism and intelligence and dont think you can beat them for breeding eventers these days. They are basically Thoroughred in type, but purpose bred for hundreds of years as riding horses not racehorses.

And if FO turns out not to be the right match for your mare, I really would say look at some of the other Trakehner stallions you have available in the US. Some very nice ones over there now

[pwynnnorman]

He sure put a super quiet, super cooperative temperament on my filly! And her dam is hot, hot, HOT--and has thrown some pretty "wired" beasties. Honestly, I adore Melody because she is such a firecracker and because her babies are so hyper-reactive. But this Fleetwater Opposition filly is...well...exactly the OPPOSITE!

In fact, she can be a bit stubborn, but not impossibly so. Stubbornness isn't something I'm accustomed to in my babies because they blow up when handled firmly. This filly just grows roots. But she's handsome and a very nice mover, too. Right now, I can't think of a nicer baby in my barn. She's like taking a breather from the ones you've got to tapdance around.

Oh, and it looks like she'll have a bit more size, too. Probably won't be a pony.

I'd breed to FO again in a heartbeat (not only because Summersong is my all-time favorite, but because this filly is just sooooo EASY!).

[TSHEventing]

That is good to hear... I hope Christine emails me back soon!

[TSHEventing]

Well, I did it! I sent in the paperwork today. Hopefully next year I will have a 2011 Fleetwater Opposition baby!

For those of you who aren't familiar with my mare
http://www.tangerinesporthorses.com/babalily

and

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/babalily

[Kanga]

GOOD!!

I really don't think you can go wrong with Fleetwater Opposition for your mare. He crosses quite well with the ISH! I have 2 babies by him out of my very large (17'3") Irish Sport Horse. My first baby (Gaelic Opposition-stallion) is coming 5 and my second (Opposition Lady-filly) is coming 3.

Gaelic Opposition has had some injuries that have set him back quite a bit and has not really done much yet. I will start him back spring and hopefully stay in one piece. He is an extremely athletic horse and does these amazing flying leaps and jumps imaginary fences in the field. He can be a handful, so what Sacha said earlier is very true!! I think once he is broke and has something to keep his mind focused on he is going to be a one of a kind horse (but not for everyone!). I would not call him easy at all BUT some of the best ones aren't!!

My filly on the other hand is just like what you hear Wynn say about hers. From day one she has been the sweetest, easiest most agreeable, darling horse I have ever had the honor to own. I just started her a bit this fall before winter hit and she was amazing! The first time I got on her, she just said ok and walked around as relaxed as can be. We worked her for a few weeks just so she knew people were going to ride her, then I will start her for good in May or June when she is 3.

Both of these babies came out of the same mare by Fleetwater Opposition. They are 2 amazing horses by all means but very different. My colt is almost a spitting image of FO and my filly is a lot like mom. My colt is going to be a handful BUT very talented and my filly is going to be a breath a fresh air and I think mentally could do anything (certainly will be pointed towards eventing).

I love this stallion and have always wondered why he was not used more over here. I'm with Wynn, about Summersong being my favorite horse of all time too! He was unbelievable. Summersong & Opposition Buzz both are not known for being "easy" horses and certainly not amateur rides!

You made a great decision and I can't wait until all of us have his offspring out there competing. One of these days, we are going to need to make a Fleetwater Opposition Team!!

Go to my website and you will see tons of pictures of the babies!!

[TSHEventing]

Ha Ha Ha!!! What a team that would be!

I bought two doses in the hopes that my mare follows the record EMCO has made of pretty darn close if not 100% conception rate on one dose so I can save the second!

Since there were only 7 doses left it was buy now or never and I want to save the second if possible for a repeat breeding if the first comes out like I hope!

My mare is super sweet and people friendly.... I think the upper level event horses sort of need a little spunk and individuality...a little "boldness" to make them good....

I chose Fleetwater over Catherston Dazzler because of his offspring. Everything out of Fleetwater has made me drool that I have seen and Catherston has produced some nice babies, but I don't see the same jaw dropping conformation always out of very different mares.

[Kanga]

Yes, you are right about their conformation. They are put together extremely well. If I were to paint a picture of my dream horse conformation wise it would be my colt. He is compact, uphill with perfect legs. He is a bit small(15'3"), I'm surprised he didn't turn out a bit bigger, as his mother is 17'3", but you just never know. My filly will end up being 17 hands, she out grew him a year ago!

My mare got pregnant both times on the first dose. She was a maiden mare on the first breeding. So, I would say his semen is excellent!

Keep in touch and let me know how it goes!!

[Equibrit]

What about Jumbo ? http://www.grafhamstud.co.uk/jumbo.php

[JER]

Jumbo is no longer available in the US.


I chose Fleetwater over Catherston Dazzler because of his offspring. Everything out of Fleetwater has made me drool that I have seen and Catherston has produced some nice babies, but I don't see the same jaw dropping conformation always out of very different mares.

Interesting comment. After over a dozen years of looking at offspring of both of these stallions, I can't say I arrived at the same conclusion. Both produce horses of a very similar type -- short-coupled, well-balanced, strong toplines -- but their respective strengths in breeding lie with different types of mares. Fleetwater Opposition is best with mares that have a bit of WB or Irish. Catherston Dazzler is best with TB mares.

For a TB mare, I'd go with CD. For a non-full-TB, I'd be more inclined to go with FO.

The FOs are often the size of Kanga's -- 15.3hh-16.1hh. The CDs are usually 16.1hh-16.2hh. (CD was a bigger horse than FO; in fact, CD was far bigger in person than I expected. He was 16.1 1/2 but did not have much in the way of withers. He was also very, very stout. FO was not a big horse.)

The FOs can be unorthodox jumpers, the type that look weird but get over the fence just fine. The CDs often aren't fond of dressage. But we're talking about two great stallions here, so it's hard to go wrong with either one.

The only real sadness is that it's last call for both of these guys. :cry:

[pwynnnorman]

I forgot I had pics of my filly. They start here: http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2481429110066718914mFXTgi