breeding with frozen (Quaterback)

[springer]

A few questions with regard to frozen semen - specifically from Quaterback... I noticed on Judy Yancey's site that there is no guarantee of anything with your purchased dose-is that why people are hesitant to breed maiden mares with frozen? So... if you purchase a dose of QB and your mare doesn't take, that's it? You buy another dose? Just curious, and pardon my dumb questions! I know nothing about breeding with frozen semen- Are maiden mares less likely to become pregnant with frozen?
I do think QB has the most unbelievable movement I've ever seen!!!! Any idea what type of mare he crosses best with? I have a young mare by Balta Czar who is turning out to be a little chunk! Lovely topline, neck and head, but not very big. She may max out at 15.3hh. I am looking to improve on her suspension and refine her a bit. I am not terribly concerned with improving on her size.
Thanks for the info!

[allanglos]

I tried twice to breed my mare to QB. She has had two foals conceived easily via AI. Neither attempt with frozen worked, and I pulled out all the stops to make it work. I even took the mare to Judy's for them to try. Didn't work. I'm not so sure I want to try frozen again. Yes, I paid for the two doses, and all the vet care and boarding, etc. There is no quarantee.

I booked the mare to Jones Hall for this year and will be using shipped cooled.

[Dressage_Diva333]

Quaterback apparently has SUPER quality frozen semen. Never used it myself, but have heard many, many success stories.

To answer your other questions, almost all imported frozen semen is the same: You buy per dose, no live foal gaurantee. If your mare doesn't get pregnant, then you buy another dose and try it again. You can easily throw a lot of money down the drain if your mare isn't getting pregnant. Not only with frozen semen costs, but vet bills as well.

My advice? DON'T mess around with a vet that isn't experianced with frozen... I made that mistake... even if you have to pay more upfront for an experianced repro vet, used to using frozen, and the different protocals, you'll likely save in the end.

Maidens can be trickier to get pregnant than mares who've had a foal before, just as general rule. Lots of people breed maidens with frozen though, it's just a bit more risky.

[Equine Reproduction]

Maidens can be trickier to get pregnant than mares who've had a foal before, just as general rule. Lots of people breed maidens with frozen though, it's just a bit more risky.

Just a quick note. Most of your other questions have been answered. With regards to maidens, they aren't necessarily "trickier", it's more that they're just an unknown quantity. You don't KNOW if they have fertility issues. The general rule of thumb for breeding with frozen is you want a mare that is between the ages of 4 and 10 that has had at least one foal, no issues foaling, and a good biopsy score. But heck, I'd like that mare for ANY breeding, not just frozen ;). But, truth be told, I'd prefer a maiden mare to one that has had multiple foals and is 13 or 14 years old.

Good luck!

[mlcoursin]

Don't know if you saw this or not but it's in another thread by Crosiadore (she's had some gorgeous QB babies) Another to ask would be Judy as she has also bred some gorgeous foals by him as well (should know i bought one from her:) :

What I meant by " All the mares had good type" was that there was not much to be "fixed" on the mares. I did not breed to Quaterback hoping for a miracle. I was hoping for Quaterback to "enhance" some very nice mares, and Quaterback did that job very well. I actually wanted to start a thread on Stallions that do just that "enhance really good mares" last night, but was too tired and went too bed! But think it would be an interesting exercise.

But to answer your question, the mares were of different body types;
one is longer backed(Londonderry), one is a more rectangular mare(Florencio), the other mare(Harvard) is rectangular but bordering on square. The best cross was to the Florencio mare. I would not personally use Quaterback on a more compact mare.

I see a great deal of the dams in the foals from the Londonderry and Florencio mare. The colt out of the Harvard mare is a little Quaterback clone! But the Harvard mare seems to let the stallion "show through" a great deal in her foals.

Below is a link to the foals.


http://www.crosiadorefarm.com/Crosia...s_of_2009.html

[clint]

My repro. vet who I use for frozen recommends buying two doses. You may not need them; heck, you may only need 1/2 a dose. However, if you do need more than one it would be very inconvenient to have only one, and shipping frozen requires a dry shipper, generally costing around $300-400 to ship. You might as well have that extra dose parked with the mare. ;)

[springer]

Here's my filly- now coming 3, who I would be considering for a breeding to QB. I will most likely wait til 2011 to breed her, but I haven't decided that for sure yet. These aren't the best photos but maybe good enough for opinions from you experts out there! (BTW- my filly had just turned 2 in these photos)

http://s929.photobucket.com/albums/ad140/bonneval/?action=view&current=HPIM04892.jpg

[clint]

This is a study from the AAEP seminar from 2008 giving conception statistics broken down by age for barren mares.http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=13730 I thought it very heartening, since my mares now have a little age, that the highest conception rates occurred in the 10-16 y.o. group.

[Sunnydays]

I have been cautioned that Quaterback is not the best for a larger, older style mare. I think he adds size. Some of the best matches have come from more refined mares, perhaps with TB in the mare line. But, hey, I think we are still gathering data.

[Forte]

I bred my 4 year old maiden mare with frozen this year. She did take, but it took 2 tries with good semen (Belissimo M). What sort of horse are you trying to produce? Your mare sounds like she's bred to be a hunter, but you are looking at dressage stallions?

[Donella]

I have bred to Quaterback a number of times... his semen is usually excellent. The first mare to catch was actually our very old style Hanoverian mare by accident.... and the resulting foal is far more than I could have ever expected from this mare. She is now purposely back in foal to him.

We also tried on another mare and she caught first try as well, however she ended up aborting later in the pregnancy. This last year we tried with her again and both times the semen was completely dead. And yes, if you get semen like this, most brokers will do nothing to remedy the situation ( though I have now found one who is super).

As for the best type of mare..well, I don't know. Looking at him you would right away assume that he needs a mare with alot of blood as he is a real tank, short coupled and rather thick. However, after knowing what he produced with our mare, I am not so quick to say that he absolutely needs a light mare.... but then, I haven't seen the dams of many Quaterback foals either. Mine could just be a fluke.

Here are a few pics of our colt :

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn273/SpruceViewFarms/DSC_0260.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn273/SpruceViewFarms/DSC_0172_edited-1.jpg

[Sunnydays]

Ah, Donella, when I look at pictures of your colt (his strong shoulder, great croup, long legs) I am encouraged to try again. (So, maybe, this spring attempt # 5 to get a Quaterback foal born live:):))

[railmom]

Donella - that is truly a beautiful picture of a wonderful colt!

I bred to QB five times, two pregnancies and one live foal. Semen quality is excellent. My vet is very experienced with frozen and has had two other QB pregnancies for other clients (2009 live foal and one due 2010). One on a maiden mare, both first try I believe.

My 2008 colt is being raised as a stallion prospect by his owner. Outstanding temperament and an excellent walk (per Dr. Christmann).

[Peg]

Donella, what is your mare's breeding? Handsome
colt! Peg

[paintjumper]

He TOTALLY looks like a cow horse bred quarter horse!!! He is a Mr. Muscle Man!!! I was very surprised. His butt is actually chunky, round, muscle. He would definitely not look out of place with a calf roping saddle on, tied to the fence in the roping arena!!! ;)
http://www.stallionguide.ca/stallions/quarterback3.jpg

[springer]

I have bred to Quaterback a number of times... his semen is usually excellent. The first mare to catch was actually our very old style Hanoverian mare by accident.... and the resulting foal is far more than I could have ever expected from this mare. She is now purposely back in foal to him.

We also tried on another mare and she caught first try as well, however she ended up aborting later in the pregnancy. This last year we tried with her again and both times the semen was completely dead. And yes, if you get semen like this, most brokers will do nothing to remedy the situation ( though I have now found one who is super).

As for the best type of mare..well, I don't know. Looking at him you would right away assume that he needs a mare with alot of blood as he is a real tank, short coupled and rather thick. However, after knowing what he produced with our mare, I am not so quick to say that he absolutely needs a light mare.... but then, I haven't seen the dams of many Quaterback foals either. Mine could just be a fluke.

Here are a few pics of our colt :

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn273/SpruceViewFarms/DSC_0260.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn273/SpruceViewFarms/DSC_0172_edited-1.jpg

WOWSA!!! What a gorgeous colt! It's so tempting to take a chance on QB- although it sounds a bit like a crapshoot- maybe 50/50 chances???

[Dressage_Diva333]

He TOTALLY looks like a cow horse bred quarter horse!!! He is a Mr. Muscle Man!!! I was very surprised. His butt is actually chunky, round, muscle. He would definitely not look out of place with a calf roping saddle on, tied to the fence in the roping arena!!! ;)
http://www.stallionguide.ca/stallions/quarterback3.jpg

Well I don't agree with that. QB looks about as different from a quarter horse as possible... yikes, thats the first time I've ever heard that horse compated to a QH...but I will say that I LOVE the new conformation photo of him.

So uphill, he has really matured. Beautiful horse.


Donella, your foal is gorgeous!!! I love QB, and hope to use him someday, I just don't have the right mare for him right now.

[flshgordon]

Donella - that is truly a beautiful picture of a wonderful colt!

I bred to QB five times, two pregnancies and one live foal. Semen quality is excellent. My vet is very experienced with frozen and has had two other QB pregnancies for other clients (2009 live foal and one due 2010). One on a maiden mare, both first try I believe.

My 2008 colt is being raised as a stallion prospect by his owner. Outstanding temperament and an excellent walk (per Dr. Christmann).

I'm confused....you bred to him 5 times and got one live foal and the semen quality is excellent? That would not have been my assumption with those odds. Was there some other problem?

[mbp]

Springer I left some general info re: your question back on the other thread.

If you are also thinking specificially about breeding your mare, you'd want to talk to the stallion agent - I'm not sure if QB would be your best choice if you specifically want to refine your mare some, but you can get some direct info.

I noticed that JumpStart Farm, which stands, Balta' Czar, has a mare by him that they have bred to Acodetto and Balou du Rouet, and since JY also carries Balou, you might want to make some inquiries on that front as well - or possibly even contact JSF to see what they might be able to tell you about other stallions they have seen crossed successfully (for what you want) with BC mares.

Are you looking specifically for a dressage cross for your mare or are you wanting a smaller hunter that is more refined and a bit more elastic than your mare?

[springer]

Springer I left some general info re: your question back on the other thread.

If you are also thinking specificially about breeding your mare, you'd want to talk to the stallion agent - I'm not sure if QB would be your best choice if you specifically want to refine your mare some, but you can get some direct info.

I noticed that JumpStart Farm, which stands, Balta' Czar, has a mare by him that they have bred to Acodetto and Balou du Rouet, and since JY also carries Balou, you might want to make some inquiries on that front as well - or possibly even contact JSF to see what they might be able to tell you about other stallions they have seen crossed successfully (for what you want) with BC mares.

Are you looking specifically for a dressage cross for your mare or are you wanting a smaller hunter that is more refined and a bit more elastic than your mare?

Thanks mbp- good suggestions. I haven't spoken yet to Saret about it. Right now I am just in the "dreaming" phase of who to breed this filly to. She is not quite mature yet, just coming 3 yrs old., but her natural movement is on the huntery side. (was injured as a yearling and now has some resulting arthritis in her fetlock joint) She is out of a TB mare but I am not an expert on whether she is refined. Wish I had you here to look at her and tell me what to do! I think for me personally I would love more of a dressagy mover, since my interests lean in that direction, but since I will be almost 60 yrs old by the time her foal is of riding age I should look at breeding more for the market. I am very open to advice!!!!

[Donella]

Thanks for the compliments guys. Peg, the mare is Waldkoenig x Wodka x Der Lowe xx.


I forgot to mention as well that in our experience, the QB semen has caused a bit more of an inflammatory reaction than the other stallions we have used. Our vets use the deep horn inseminatin method, and that in and of itself can often create a bit of inflammation post insemination, but either way, for us, the semen has always caused some inflammation and I did have one semen broker/breeder tell me that they had heard that alot of his semen as well.

The motility ect is REALLY good, but perhaps alot of people are maybe not following up insemination with measures to deal with post breeding inflammation. I know with our mare that had the colt, she had a MASSIVE reaction both times and needed flushing, oxytocin ect for five days post breeding. She still caught, but if we had just picked her up from the vets right after breeding, I am sure there would not have been a pregnancy.

[railmom]

I'm confused....you bred to him 5 times and got one live foal and the semen quality is excellent? That would not have been my assumption with those odds. Was there some other problem?

Yes, we had some other issues and lost one pregnancy.