Calming supplement advice

[showclothes]

Hi, I'm new to this forum so I hope I'm not repeating a subject that has been discussed. I have a 3 yr old mare that I've tried various calming products on (both herbs and chemicals) with no success. I'm currently using Dac Oil at my vet's suggestion but it seems to be having the opposite effect on her. She's very hyper with it. Other products have had the same opposite effect. I'm about to give up on her and move on. Any suggestions?

[Melyni]

Firstly, I think that this question is in the wrong column, this section is for technical help as in how do make the website work, the question you're asking is usually found in the Horse Care section.
But no biggie if the Mods want to move it they will.

So to your calming dilemma.

The first thing to ask is is there a pattern to her hyperness? Is it only when being worked or all the time? What breed is she?

So some suggestions of the generic kind?

More turn out,
More hay, less grain,
Added magnesium in her diet, you can get magnesium in a number of different products, but they tend to vary in the amount they contain.
I would suggest 5-10g per day. You have to read the label , see how much Mg they contain and do the math to work out how much to give.
The product we make is Quiessence, and if you call Foxden Equine on 540-337-5450 they will send you a free sample to try and see if it helps.
We also make 3 others and you can ask for samples of those as well if you like. Stability EQ, Stability EQ+, and Equinamity are the others.

Then try a Thiamine supplement, or if you don't plan on showing you can use one of the herbals that contains valerian, but be warned that one tests and can't be used at USEF shows.

Good Luck
PM me if you need more specific info.
Yours
MW

[showclothes]

Hi Melyni,

Thanks, I guess I didn't realize where I posted the question.

I can't detect a pattern to her hyperness. Sometimes it's when she's being worked in an arena, sometimes when she's on the trail (one day she's perfect and the next she's wild woman) and sometimes even just when she's in her stall to eat. I have an older warmblood mare that is blind in the pasture with her and she's fantastic with her.

She's double registered QH and Buckskin. She does have halter, lunge line, and in hand trail points and seemed to tolerate all of that very well. She was also walk trot futurity champion as a 2 yr old. I don't plan on showing her, I just want to use her for trail riding and camping.

The breeder has been wonderful in working with me on this issue. We've kept her feeding routine the same. She is turned out 24/7 (unless the weather is too bad, but here in FL that's not much of an issue) and only comes in her stall to eat. She gets plenty of coastal hay as the area they are in is just sand.

I'm actually working her more than the breeder was. I'm using the same bit and the same saddle as the breeder also. It's not an equipment issue because it's not only when she's being worked.

I'm leary of using products with Valerian Root due to the bad press it has. Also L-tryptophan. My vet suggested the Dac Oil as he uses it on his young stud colts at the track and it helps.

Should I have her tested for a Thiamine deficiency before trying a Thiamine supplement?

Thanks for the reply and I will call for samples. I'm accumulating quite an expensive stock of supplements. Trying first would be great.


Mardi

[showclothes]

Hi, I'm new to forums and posted this question by mistake in the help forum. I did get one response but felt I needed to post in the correct section in order to get more visibility. I have a 3 yr old mare that I've tried various calming products on (both herbs and chemicals) with no success. I'm currently using Dac Oil at my vet's suggestion but it seems to be having the opposite effect on her. She's very hyper with it. Other products have had the same opposite effect. I'm about to give up on her and move on. Any suggestions?

[lizajane09]

I've been giving my mare Quiessence at the suggestion of a vet to help with her EPSM/tight muscles, and have found as a side effect that she's much more nonchalant about things that she used to get worked up about. It did take about 1.5-2 months for me to really notice this effect, but it could be worth a try for your mare...

[showclothes]

Hi lizajane09, Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to look into it, someone else mentioned that to me as being good. Did you notice any adverse effects when you first started using it?

[Dressage Art]

anything with magnezium

[Bogie]

Quiessence can be very helpful, but only if your horse is deficient in magnesium. Actually, I found that it did really help my TB chill out. For what it's worth, the Quiessence worked better than straight magnesium.

You can get a sense for whether magnesium will calm your horse by adding some epsom salts to a meal. A tablespoon or two should do the trick. Quiessence is expensive and it may have no effect.

The problem with most calming agents is that many of them are designed to counteract deficiencies (such as magnesium or Vitamin B). If your horse is already fully covered on its vitamins/minerals, it won't help. I had a mare who was very anxious and Calm-eze worked for her. It is largely a matter of trial and error. Another product that I found helpful for specific situations (rather than daily doses) was Platinum Tranquility. I used that when introducing my TB to new situations when I first had him and it really seemed to work.

Calming supplements with Valerian generally help but don't use that if you are planning to show because it's not legal.

Ultimately, though, I think the best solution is to look at your horse holistically -- are you feeding a low starch diet (my TB is highly sensitive to starch)? does your horse have enough turnout? Does your horse get worked enough? When is your horse excessively anxious?

My horse currently gets no calming supplement but he's fed a very low starch diet, some alfalfa to prevent ulcers, free choice hay, oil (can have a calming effect when you are feeding a cup or more/day) and is turned out 24/7. Without the 24/7 turnout my boy probably would be considered crazy.

Good luck!

[showclothes]

Hi, Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to try the Epsom salts, how long do you think it should be before I notice if it will make a difference or not?

My mare is generally a sweet girl and does want to please. She's been shown in halter, lunge line, and in hand trail classes with points in all as well as being walk trot futurity champion as a 2 yr old. She's been exposed to a lot and handled it well. I bought her from the breeder who had her from birth and trained her as well.

She's out 24/7 except if the weather is really bad (here in FL that's usually not an issue) and only comes into her stall to eat. I have had her about 2 months now and have worked with the breeder to make sure that her feed is the same as he was feeding. I'm also using the same bit, saddle etc that she was used to. I don't think it's a tack issue.

Her hyperness doesn't seem to follow a pattern. Somedays on the trail she walks on like a well seasoned trail horse and the next day on the same trail she thinks everything is going to eat her! Same with the stall. This morning at feeding time she was very excitable but tonight she was very docile.

I have her on Mare Magic but I don't think it's hormonal since it seems to be very random and day to day. I've thought about a low starch feed and think that's worth a try. Anybody have any recommendations? She's presently on Stock and Stable by Nutrena.

Does Valerian Root have any adverse effects?

I'm not planning to show her, just trail ride. I think part of her behavior issues are due to the change from show ring to trails. I'm hoping to find something to use for a while to help ease her with this transition.

[lizajane09]

Hi lizajane09, Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to look into it, someone else mentioned that to me as being good. Did you notice any adverse effects when you first started using it?

No, I haven't noticed any adverse effects thus far (she's been on it for 3-4 months). And she's been so quiet that I was almost worried about her - because quiet is not normally her style - until I put two and two together about the Quiessence!

[Arrows Endure]

Honestly, she doesn't sound too different from any other three year old I've worked with. Some days, they are good, some days they aren't. Your horse is still a baby, and is having "baby" moments. You have a couple of options to dealing with them...

1. Ride through them, if you are consistant and fair with her, she'll get gradually better as she ages

2. (this is what I'd do) Turn her out for a year and let her finish growing up, both mentally and physically. Most three year olds just don't have the mental capacity to concentrate for long, and there are some days they don't concentrate at all.


Ok, maybe you have three options. You could sell her to someone that is more experienced with young horses, and get yourself something a little older and with more miles and experience.

Either way, good luck!

[BoysNightOut]

I agree with Arrows Endure...sounds like she's acting her age (good, with occasional baby moments).

I have a 2 1/2 y/o who is great...sweet, well behaved. But still has the crazy baby moments. We just work through them, and he eventually settles fine.

I wouldn't be so quick to jump to a supplement, esp. for one so young...but that's just my opinion.

[showclothes]

Thanks to the last 2 posters. I agree with both of you in that she's still a baby. I've raised several babies from birth in the past and have dealt with the baby issues. I just don't remember them having such dramatic swings in moods.

I have backed off her a bit and am concentrating on ground work with a little riding. I'm also working with the breeder that I bought her from because this doesn't seem to be her pattern. He's willing to take her back if it doesn't work out but she's such a sweet mare that I want to stick with her if I can.

Ugh! Frustrating.

[BoysNightOut]

Some other things to consider...

Has the weather been fluctuating? Has anything changed about her daily routine? Is she getting along well with pasture-mates? How much grain does she get per day? What's her work schedule like...does she get worked consistently?

All things to take a closer look at. Best of luck! :)

[Moderator 1]

Welcome to the forums! We merged your two threads so all of the information is together.

Thanks,
Mod 1 :)

[showclothes]

To Mod 1..........Thanks and sorry for the mixup.

[deltawave]

Any suggestions?

Save your money. You can't impact an animal's temperament by sprinkling things in their food. :) She's three, you can't expect her to act like a grown up horse yet.

[Timex]

I'd chalk a lot of her behavior up to age. That being said, I have a 10 year old morgan/pony cross mare that is a seriously nervous thing, and Quiessence really has helped her stay focused and has seemed to take the edge off. A client of mine has a very distractable 5 year old QH that is on B vitamins, which seem to keep him more focused on his job as well. Just FWIW.

[showclothes]

Hi, Thanks to all who posted to my original question. I'm wondering if ulcers may be part of her problem. Since I've had her she's become much more girthy, in addition to the erratic spookiness and reluctance to take the canter. It's not a saddle fit issue, she does the same thing when I put her blanket on or brush her (from girth area forward only). She puts her ears flat back. She's usually a sweet mare and very people friendly.

I thought I would try the Mylanta test for a week or so to see if things change. I've heard that's a good way to get an idea if there is a problem.

Any ideas or suggestions?

[Hampton Bay]

You can also try Zantac (or the generic version, Sam's and Costco are very cheap). You have to do it 2 or 3 times a day though. I *think* the dosage for a 1200lb horse is 40 of the 75mg pills, or 20 of the 250mg. But someone else would probably know better than I do.

But if she does have ulcers, GastroGuard or UlcerGuard are the only things that will heal them.

[horsephotolady]

I agree with deltawave--I've never had any luck w/any calming supplement on any horse I've ever tried them on. And I've tried them all--including valerian and L-tryptophan. The only thing that ever calms any of my horses down is acepromazine!

[RiverBendPol]

I agree that she's a baby and not to go chucking supplements at her but her erratic behavior, nastiness whilst grooming AND reluctance to canter all raise a red flag to me. Registered QH says you may want to check her out for PSSM (also known as EPSM. Same condition, different names). The vet who is focussed on QH's is Dr. Stephanie Valberg. http://www.myhorseuniversity.com/node/353
The one who helped me with my horse's EPSM is Dr. Beth Valentine www.ruralheritage.com
I suggest you have a lot of research to accomplish. Good luck.

[katarine]

What's her breeding, if I may ask?

[jawa]

She may be having issues cycling through her heat. My friend has a mare that is difficult to come in season and can exhibit unruly behavior. Once she cycles she is happy go lucky.