Friend's horse - any suggestions as to what else she can try???

[TrueColours]

A friend of mine got the horse of her dreams off the track around August/September. He is a simply stunning 3 year old TB gelding whose trainer got fed up with him as "he wouldnt try hard enough" and he was "acting up" and despite showing a lot of promise at times and having some good works, he'd buck and leap and act like a jerk as well

She got him home and found he was SO tight across his lumbar area, back, chest - everywhere - just touching or grooming him even with a very soft brush - would evoke pinned ears, teeth gnashing, the whole works

She called the vet in and they pulled blood on him and tested enzymes and they all came back within normal ranges. It was suggested that she put him on Vitamin E/Selenium which she did and also some bute to relax his muscles and leave him alone - just turn him out and loose lunge him to try and relax his muscles. Which she did. He was also on Robaxisol (a muscle relaxant) prescribed by the vet

She also got a chiropractor in who found he was horrifically tight through his pectoral muscles and his sacroiliac and lumbar areas, so she adjusted those areas and for the next 1-2 weeks he was a new horse - soft and willing and happy - but then he slowly reverted back to being tight and cranky and sore to the touch.

My friend then gave him a month off - totally and completely - and he is now worse. Every muscle is as tight as a drum and if you try and free lunge him, he now bunny hops and bucks in the trot whereas before it was only in the canter. He is marginally better after the free lungeing session

She keeps him well blanketed to keep all of his muscle groups as warm as possible. She is now looking at getting a hand held electric massager (she has been massaging him manually up til now), looking into getting an accupuncturist to work on him and also looking to take him to Dr Darryl Bonder to get a nuclear imaging done on him

Oh! And I suggested taking him swimming as well ( we have a Standarbred facility about 30-40 minutes away that offer swim sessions for the horses) but her vet felt that would make him worse

When this guy is relaxed and happy, his movement is to die for. It takes your breath away ...

Right now he is getting cranky is she even tries to jog him in hand. His ears are pinned the whole time and he is NOT a mean horse - he is hurting very very badly

He will walk long and low forever and he will back up without showing any signs of discomfort at all

No wonder he was cranky at the track and "wouldnt try". He probably hurt in every fibre of every muscle that he had ... :( ... and the more they got after him, the worse he got and acted ...

Oh! And his foot angles were awful when she first got him - no heel, L-O-N-G toe, so his whole body was thrown off - all of the angles were wrong. The blacksmith has now corrected that over the last 4 - 5 months and he now has a correct heel and all of the angles are in alignment

Does anyone have some suggestions as to what else she can try, who she can contact, where she can take him and what other treatment methods she can consider with him.

This guy is worth every penny and every bit of time spent on him. This is her "forever" horse and it breaks her heart to see him in obvious pain with no obvious solutions in sight for him

he is located in Ontario, Canada and if someone suggested a clinic or a person in the States, I know she would take him there in a heartbeat

Thanks for any/all suggestions on this one

[Beasmom]

How long has he been let down since leaving the track? By that I mean turnout and no work at all. If she got him in Aug or Sept, that's only about four months.

The mare I bought off the track was body-sore, but still a willing soul. I turned her out at my cousin's ranch for 6 months before bringing her back for work.

Friend might try just leaving him alone for a few more months, then repeating the chiro/massage treatments. Oh, and check his teeth. My mare's were pretty bad. And check the fit of tack.

Failing all that, it may be your friend just doesn't click with the horse (or vice versa) and she may have to find him another situation. It happens.

[WishIWereRiding]

I would definitely get his back x-rayed and/or a bone scan--look for kissing spine.

[kookicat]

Has he been tested for Lyme/ulcers?

[TrueColours]

Failing all that, it may be your friend just doesn't click with the horse (or vice versa) and she may have to find him another situation. It happens.


She isnt riding him at all. She goes up every day, grooms him, free lunges him (or nothing when she gave him the month off), gives him treats and thats it

She IS leaving him alone and every day / week he is getting worse. And not her words, but what she sees with her own eyes and what the vet and the chiropractor are telling her

As much as she wants to bring him home to her place and kick him out for 6 or more months, she is really concerned that doing NOTHING is the worst thing that could happen with this guy - he will hurt and not move and the less he moves the worse he will be

They also dont have a barn at home yet - it was due to be started and then wasnt so that will not go up til spring, so again - the last thing she wants to do with a horse that already has awful muscle spasms is have him living outside 24/7 (even heavily blanketed) and have him tense up any more because he is possibly chilled

If this is a kissing spine situation - would simply having him on Bute make that dramatic a difference?

Lyme and ulcer testing - I dont think so - but that wouldnt explain the muscle spasms in his lumbar and pectoral and chest areas that does abate with massage, light work and chiro ...

[Beasmom]

Seriously? Turn-out for OTTB's is the best thing you can do for them. "Leaving him alone" and turnout are not the same thing.

What kind of housing situation does she have for him?

Perhaps if you have a good veterinary school or clinic in your area Friend might take him there for a really thorough check-up.

[MistyBlue]

Since the chiro adjustment worked for a while...well, chiro work is rarely ever a one time thing. Even for people.
You get adjusted...puts things back where they belong. Then muscle memory kicks back in and tightens everything up over time until things go out of whack again.
I'd suggest repeating the chiro once every other week at least once or twice more...followed by a real vet recommended massage therapist. (not a fly by night one week found it online course person) Horses that are tight and grumpy need turnout, period. The more they move on their own, the better off they are. No need to keep him out 24/7 but I'd suggest at least 8 hours turn out daily.
but a normal chiro adjustment is usually followed by at least a second (and/or third) one and a good massage or three to keep muscles loose and relaxed so they don't tighten back up. Muscle memory is a b*tch to deal with if the problem was long term.

[TrueColours]

He is out from about 8:00 am until 6:00 pm and then in a stall at night. He has been on all day turnout since Day and all night as well when the weather was milder. He has been "left alone" AND turned out all day and in some cases all night as well. She rode him once or maybe twice in the beginning and realized very quickly she needed to sort out his issues first before she could get on him again, so his days are spent on all day turnout, grooming, free lungeing in the whole arena for 10-15 minutes to get him moving on secure footing to stretch out his muscle groups as much as possible (she thought maybe with the slippy footing outside he was just standing around and not moving at all). He is encouraged in his arena time to stretch his head and neck out and trot to push and stretch from behind. So for the last 4-5 months he's been ridden twice, turned out all day/night or for at least 8-10 hours a day (weather permitting), had vet work done on him, regular chiro work, massage, medication - and he is exactly the same or possibly worse than he was in the beginning ...

MistyBlue - chiro has been out many many times - 3-4-5 times a month if not more. She is truly not scrimping on that at all

Muscle memory is a b*tch to deal with if the problem was long term.

And I think this is exactly the issue she is dealing with and I wonder if there isnt scar tissue built up around the muscle fibres as well

None of this is working. There is no improvement and the improvement that is being seen, slowly reverts back to Square 1 over the course of days or weeks. The vets are stumped. The chiro is stumped, hence the thought to get thermal imaging done to see if they can pinpoint the heat areas to see if they are missing something and concentrating on the wrong area

Its not through lack of trying, lack of professional attention and intervention, lack of willingness to try something "different". They are just fast running out of options and are looking for something they perhaps havent thought of yet

[CBoylen]

She should talk to her vet about a course of RVI. Personally, I would keep up with the chiro and massage, and look into renting or borrowing a good electromagnetic blanket to use before and after work with sore no more. Also maybe a Back on Track sheet. It sounds like this is something she should throw the whole book at to get the horse into a program, and hope that once he progresses in his fitness the issues won't return again with a little upkeep. I'd also definitely put him on the Robaxin (or whatever you called it for Canada ;)) to get him back into work. I'd imagine that's what gave you the major improvement, not the bute.

[Beasmom]

Ditto the Robaxin. When my gelding was suffering with spasms in the back, it was the Robaxin and complete rest (other than turnout) that helped.

This horse's problems sound more profound, though. Could it be neurological? I'm sure no vet; just asking...

[kookicat]

I wonder if adding amino acids to his diet would help? I don't think that it would hurt, and it's a cheap thing to try.

[Arrows Endure]

A friend of mine has the same problem with her four year old OTTB. When she got him he was so body sore he could hardley walk. She rested him, did chiropractic, massage, etc, etc, etc.

Turns out, he as EPM. Out of desperation, they did about every blood test out there to see if they could find out what was going on with this guy, and this is what came back.

He's been on the EPM medication for two weeks, and he's becoming a new man. He's much friendlier, and is acting much happier.

Just one more thing to think about!

[vbunny]

Does he get better if she does ride him, meaning does he get better during the ride itself? I like to combine the therapies you have talked about with exercise, I find that a lot of TBs need to be ridden to loosen up, they like movement. it doesn't have to be stressful or tough, just stretchy and round and as suppling as you can. I wouldn't try swimming, I think it can make horses sore and tight, it calls for them to shape in an odd way, head up and back tight. I'd try taking him for a long walk with a friend, up and down some rolling hills and see if you can encourage him to stretch laterally and enjoy and relax into it.

[TrueColours]

CBoylen - what is RVI? Ive never heard of it before

About the Robaxin - supposedly due to our colder temperatures it cant be given now??? :confused: Ive never used it so unsure why that is but she did say she wishes she could use it now but cant due to the colder weather

Ive sent her the link to this thread. She should be home now from delivering the baby kitty to her MIL so hopefully she can add her input as well. I dont think she has a user name here but I guess can sign up for one quickly enough!

Does he get better if she does ride him, meaning does he get better during the ride itself?

She only rode him twice in the last 4-5 months and said he was tight and tense and felt like he was about to explode. I know from seeing him just standing in cross ties, there is no looseness to his lumbar muscles - they are tight and rock hard and the same with his pectoral muscles and just touching them or lightly grooming him makes him very upset. She is very light and a light rider, so its also not like she is heavy andwas thumping on his back to evoke a negative response from him. With the muscle spasms he has going on, I dont believe anyone believes its a smart thing to ride him at this point at all. Plus he did nothing but dump the exercise riders and jockeys - again - because he was hurting every time someone got on his back ...

Thanks - some great suggestions for her to think about and discuss with her vet!

[Fharoah]

Have you tried a soundness exam with all kinds of palpation and flexions? That some horses are stoic and don't show pain until it really hurts it might be worth a good exam from the best lameness specialist in your area.

[CBoylen]

I've used RVI on a couple serious back issues with great results. Your vet should be familiar with it, it's pretty common for show horses. You give it subcutaneously on a set schedule over about two weeks if I remember correctly, it's been some time.
http://www.farmvet.com/pc-1448-163-rvi-rubeola-virus-immunomodulator.aspx
I have no idea what about colder temperatures would make Robaxin unusable. That said, I'd imagine I've never had a need to use it at your temperatures. Canadians I know have brought it south in the same pills as we use, so I assume we can all get it in the same form. You would want to use the pills versus the IV for longer term use anyway. If you find out why they don't want it used, let me know; now I'm curious!

[Hampton Bay]

I would test for EPM, Lyme, and PSSM to start with.

If that turns up nothing, you might try a Mg supplement. My mare has never been as bad as this guy, but she always hated to be curried, and she never could relax until I started her on epsom salts. Within 4 or 5 days I had a different horse. None of the other supplements, stretches, chiro, or anything else ever helped.

[Beethoven]

This is way out in left field, but maybe he needs more lysine. I have heard if horses being grouchy and touchy if they are low on it. Maybe he has EPSM/PSSM.

Just thinking of other things not brought up.

"Symptoms Associated with Excessive Polysaccharide Storage - With the excessive accumulation of these polysaccharides, the muscle cell can be damaged and die. When this occurs, depending on the number of muscles involved, duration of the process and other stress factors, multiple symptoms can be shown by the affected horse. While symptoms can occur in 6 month or younger foals, most often signs are not apparent until the horse goes into training at 2-4 years of age. Depending on the severity of involvement, symptoms can include any of the following:
generally stiff, difficulty rising, reluctant to “move out,” tires easily, saddle issues (sore back), bucking, resistance to holding up the hindfeet for shoeing, subtle lamenesses, abnormal gaits, cranky attitude, muscle tremors or sensitivity, kicks at flies that aren’t there (muscle cramps), swishes tail excessively (muscle pain), looks at belly or flanks as if colicky (muscle pain), having a preference for rubbing or rolling a lot, or the opposite, with resistance to brushing/grooming, especially over the back and rump. Affected horses may show a stiff, tense gait with difficulty getting that nice relaxed rhythmic swing that is so desirable in the dressage horse or any other athletic, sport horse. Symptoms of “shivers” where there is an abnormal hindleg action and muscle quivering have been described in draft breeds . If left unmanaged, over time the muscles can atrophy and the horse can show severe muscle wasting. The horse may eventually be unable to rise from a lying down position." - http://www.morgandressage.org/articles/pssm.html

[Simkie]

Sure sounds like wind up pain to me. Potentially secondary to a spinal issue. A course of gabapentin might be very helpful.

[M. O'Connor]

Definitely consider RER/PSSM/EPSM type muscle disorders--one blood test is not sufficient to determine whether a horse is affected by these syndromes--refer your friend to my blog on the topic for more detail about why this is so, and how to manage a horse with these conditions:

http://www.chronicleofmyhorse.com/profiles/blogs/1971868:BlogPost:88871

(There are some recent posts that are pertinent to this topic on other threads, which should come up if you search for them).

Also do a google search for the terms:

RER, PSSM, EPSM, Valberg, Valentine

Management of these conditions is achieved through dietary modification (click my signature links, below, for more on this) and careful management of exercise and fitness.

When outside factors (weather/lack of suitable facility) prevent the implementation of a regular exercise program, it is sometimes impossible to adequately condition a horse such as this to the point where it can tolerate much work.

(I wonder how your friend determined that a horse she has been able to do so little with is "the" horse of her dreams, a 'forever horse,' as you put it?)

[TrueColours]

Thanks so much for all of the info - a LOT more for her to consider, look into and discuss with her vet - or - discuss with the vets at the teaching hospitals we have nearby ...

(I wonder how your friend determined that a horse she has been able to do so little with is "the" horse of her dreams, a 'forever horse,' as you put it?)


She re-homes a LOT of TB's off the track, and out of auctions. I mean as in every single week, week in and week out, several at a time in some cases, brings them home, attends to whatever issues need dealing with and finds them new homes and she works tirelessly for the horses in need - always.

She has had her eye on this guy for a long time, but due to his bloodlines and the promise he did show, the trainer wasnt willing to give up on him but promised her that when he did, he would call her first. Which he did. So - she saw this guy on her trips to the track probably 5-7-9 times a month, would stop in and visit with him

He is really one of those flashy, beautiful looking, beautiful moving large, leggy youngsters who any of one of would love to own. When I saw him trotting in hand about 6 weeks ago, AFTER one of his adjustments, my jaw dropped - he is a 10+ mover and is the ultimate hunter prospect. And will top out in the 16.2hh+ range. And he is as kind as a big puppy when he is not hurting - just wants to cuddle up and he tries so hard to do what he is being asked to do. THATS why she wants to go to the nth degree to figure out what is wrong with him and what is making him so unhappy and cranky - because she HAS seen the "other side" and just loves what she sees ...

Thanks again for all of the suggestions - Im sure once she reads this thread she will come on and respond directly to the questions being asked

[asterix]

It does sound like a consult with a big clinic or equine hospital is in order -- to get the viewpoint of vets with different specialties, to see if something "clicks".

I am no expert, but I've had lots of lame horses. To me this sounds more like some of the metabolic or nutritional issues folks have suggested, since he is so incredibly tight over so much of his body; it would definitely be a set of things to be carefully ruled out, one by one. A dietary deficiency, nutrient processing deficiency or other similar "disruption" in how normal muscle fiber works would seem to match better with the level of symptoms he has.

good luck with him!

[Fharoah]

bone scan?

[Meadow36]

This horse screams Rhabdomyolysis to me. I cut this article from VIN and pasted it here for your friend's reference (can't log on to that site without an account). It is from the '04 Western Veterinary Conference, courtesy of Dr. Valberg from UMN:

Chronic Exertional Rhabdomyolysis

A number of horses, predominantly fillies, will have recurrent episodes of rhabdomyolysis even with light exercise. Chronic exertional rhabdomyolysis is seen in many breeds of horses including Quarter Horses, American Paint Horses, Appaloosas, Thoroughbreds, Arabians, Standardbreds and Morgans. Two forms of chronic tying-up have been identified using muscle biopsies. Polysaccharide storage myopathy (PSSM) is a form of tying-up in Quarter Horse-related breeds, warmbloods and drafts. Biopsies of PSSM horses reveal many muscle fibers with subsarcolemmal vacuoles, dark PAS staining for glycogen and most notably abnormal complex polysaccharide accumulation in muscle fibers. Recurrent exertional rhabdomyolysis (RER) is a disorder of Thoroughbreds and likely Standardbred and Arabian horses. Muscle biopsies are characterized by numerous mature muscle fibers with centrally located nuclei and moderately dark PAS stains for muscle glycogen without any complex polysaccharide accumulation. In some horses the specific cause of tying-up may not be known at this time. A wide variety of causes for chronic rhabdomyolysis have been proposed. These include electrolyte imbalances, hormonal imbalances, lactic acidosis and vitamin E and selenium deficiencies. Many of these proposed causes do not have a sound scientific basis. As such we recommend that a complete battery of diagnostic tests be used to identify the cause of tying-up whenever possible.

Diagnosis

Further diagnostic tests to try to determine the cause of chronic tying-up include a complete blood count, serum chemistry panel, blood vitamin E and selenium concentrations, urinalysis to determine electrolyte balance, exercise testing, muscle biopsy and dietary analysis. A muscle biopsy may be useful in determining the basis for chronic rhabdomyolysis.

Muscle Biopsy technique: Routine light and electron microscopic examination of muscle biopsy, combined with histochemical evaluations, may provide insights into the particular manifestation of neuromuscular disease. A number of basic pathologic responses such as of muscle can be identified in formalin-fixed paraffin-embedded sections, however a more informative analysis requires the use of frozen sections evaluated in specialized facilities.

Preferably muscle biopsies should be collected from what is considered abnormal/diseased muscle. A 6-mm outer diameter percutaneous needle biopsy technique can be used to obtain muscle samples through a 1/4-inch skin incision using a local anesthetic subcutaneously. If this technique is used, enough muscle should be obtained to form a 1/2-inch square sample at a minimum. These samples do not, however, tolerate shipment to an outside laboratory. The optimum biopsy for shipment of histopathologic tissues to a laboratory is collected using surgical or open techniques, performed under local anesthesia. Care must be exercised to infiltrate only the subcutaneous tissues, not the muscle, with the anesthetic agent. The objective is to obtain approximately a 1/2inch cube of tissue; hence a suitably long skin incision is required. Two parallel incisions 1/2-inch apart should be made longitudinal to the muscle fibers with a scalpel. The muscle should only be handled in one corner using forceps. The muscle sample is then excised by cross-secting incisions 1/2 inch apart, and the tissue fixed appropriately. Routine histopathologic samples can be placed in formalin, however frozen sections need to be made from muscle that is placed in isopentane (methylbutane) chilled in liquid nitrogen to ensure rapid freezing and minimization of freeze artifact. In practice, referring veterinarians can place fresh samples in a water tight hard container after being wrapped in gauze moistened with saline, and shipped chilled to laboratories for freezing. Samples that potentially may be used for biochemical analysis should be immediately frozen in liquid nitrogen.

Exercise response test: Diagnosing chronic exertional rhabdomyolysis may be problematic in horses that do not have acute clinical signs and have normal serum AST and CK at rest. In such cases, an exercise challenge can be helpful in detecting subclinical exertional rhabdomyolysis. In addition, quantifying the extent of rhabdomyolysis during mild exercise is helpful in deciding how rapidly to put a horse back into training. Blood samples should be taken before exercise and about 4-6 hrs after exercise to evaluate peak changes in CK. Serum CK activity measured immediately post-exercise will not reflect the amount of damage occurring during the exercise test. Small fluctuations in serum CK activity may occur with exercise due to enhanced muscle membrane permeability, particularly if exercise is prolonged or strenuous and the horse is untrained. A sub-maximal exercise test is often valuable for detecting rhabdomyolysis because it provides more consistent evidence of subclinical rhabdomyolysis than maximal exercise tests. Fifteen minutes of trotting is often sufficient to produce subclinical muscle damage in horses prone to exertional myopathies. If signs of stiffness develop before this, exercise should be concluded. A normal response would be less than a 3 to 4 fold increase from basal CK.

Clinical Approach to the Treatment of Acute Rhabdomyolysis

If rhabdomyolysis has occurred during exercise some distance from where a horse is normally stabled the horse should not be made to walk home. It should be transported back home, or left in a nearby stable. If a severe attack has occurred at a competition the horse should be treated there and should not be transported home over a long distance until at least 24-48 hours later.

The objectives of treatment are to relieve anxiety and muscle pain, as well as to correct fluid and acid base deficits. Acetylpromazine (0.04-0.07 mg/kg), an alpha-adrenergic antagonist, is helpful in relieving anxiety and may increase muscle blood flow. In my hands it is the best mechanism to relieve muscle pain and provide horses the relief they need to move about again. Its use is contraindicated in dehydrated horses. In extremely painful horses, detomidine (0.02-.04 mcg/kg) combined with butorphanol (0.01-0.04 mg/kg) provide excellent sedation and analgesia. Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) such as ketoprofen (2.2 mg/kg), phenylbutazone (2.2-4.4. mg/kg) or flunixin meglumine (1.1.mg/kg) successfully resolve pain in less severely affected horses. Analgesic treatment is continued to effect, but most horses are relatively pain free within 18 to 24 hours.

Intravenous or intragastric dimethyl sulfoxide (as a < 20% solution) can be used as an anti-oxidant, anti-inflammatory and osmotic diuretic in severely affected horses. Corticosteroid administration has been advocated by some veterinarians in the acute stage. If the horse is recumbent methyl prednisolone succinate (2-4 mg/kg IV) should be given once. Muscle relaxants such as methocarbamol ( 5-22 mg/kg, IV slowly) seem to produce variable results possibly depending on the dosage used. The administration of dantrium sodium (2-4 mg/kg orally) in severely affected horses may decrease muscle contractures and possibly prevent further activation of muscle necrosis.

Severe rhabdomyolysis can lead to renal compromise due to the ischemic and the combined nephrotoxic effects of myoglobinuria, dehydration and NSAIDs. The first priority in horses with hemoconcentration, or myoglobinuria, is to reestablish fluid balance and induce diuresis. In mild cases administration of fluids via a nasogastric tube may be adequate, but generally fluids are better given intravenously. Balanced polyionic electrolyte solutions are best. If severe rhabdomyolysis is present then isotonic saline, or 2.5% dextrose in 0.45% saline may be necessary since horses often have hyponatremia, hypochloremia and hyperkalemia. If hypocalcaemia is present then supplementing intravenous fluids with 100-200 ml of 24% calcium borogluconate is recommended, but serum calcium should not exceed a low normal range. Affected animals are usually alkalotic, making bicarbonate therapy inappropriate.

Ten liters of fluids may be given rapidly. The total fluid replacement is based on an estimation of the degree of dehydration and the clinical response: if the horse is mildly dehydrated (5%) give 10 L fast and then 15 L over the next 4 to 6 hours; if dehydration is severe (20%) give 10 L fast and then 50 L at 4 L per hour. If the horse is recumbent consider using at least 2 intravenous giving sets and infusing into both the jugular and the cephalic veins. Suture the catheters in place.

Ideally, the packed cell volume, total plasma protein, and serum electrolytes after the initial period of therapy should be reassessed to provide a successful guide for the therapeutic regimen. However in the practical situation the clinical response to therapy is usually an adequate indicator. In severely affected animals, regular monitoring of blood urea nitrogen and/or serum creatinine is advised to assess the extent of renal damage. Diuretics are usually contraindicated unless the horse is in oliguric renal failure.

Horses should be stall rested on a hay diet for a few days. Small paddock turn-out in a quiet area for a few hours twice a day is then helpful. Horses may be hand walked at this time, but not for more than 5-10 minutes at a time. For horses with sporadic forms of tying-up, rest with regular access to a paddock should continue until serum muscle enzyme concentrations are normal. For chronic cases of tying-up this much rest is not recommended (see sections following). Training should be resumed gradually and a regular exercise schedule, that matches the degree of exertion to the horses underlying state of training, should be established. If the horses has a day or several days off the dietary energy concentrations should be reduced accordingly.

[elequine]

Hello All. Thank you TC for posting this thread for me and getting me up and running on COTH.
Thanks to everyone for posting their ideas and information!

This horse has it in him to be smart, a good honest worker, not mean etc. I cling to those moments that I've had with him.

The outward expressions are most definitely pain related. (I've literally owned at least a couple hundred horses if not more and most are Off Track and On Track Thoroughbreds)

He is only 3 and in his short career was raced heavily.
The horse is presently in a growth spurt
He came off the Track in early August, was sore (as expected), had incorrectly shod feet, which has been corrected and was very high strung.
He could not go straight to rest for risk of tying up so he went from the coming off the track to me and just lunged loose in the arena, no exertion, a couple times a day.
I have ridden him, at the walk for no more than ten minutes at a time. He has no issues with tack fit.

His nutrition program is excellent and has been individualized for him based on multiple analysis of everything.
He is being treated for Ulcers and has gained weight since treatment began. Ulcer treatment includes Calcium/Magnesium
Vet prescribed Vit/Selenium supplement, which he gets daily
He is also on a B1-6 Supplement

He was negative for myolysis, hypocalcemia etc.
He is negative for EPM
Bloodwork = normal range although ck levels slightly elevated but not enough for vet to concerned

Urinalysis = normal
Kidney's flushed when I initially got him off the track

Passes on neurological tests and has no muscle wasting etc.

When on Bute and regular light work (loose lunge in arena) he is wonderful to work with. Learns fast, tries hard, never evades, very honest and beautiful to watch. I took him off Bute to give his tummy a chance to heal and the pain returned as did the unacceptable behavior.

Chiro says he's locked up in sacro-lumbar area and is VERY sore.
At the canter he bunny hops and bucks like a bronc and it appears he is trying to release something. Then he is able to land on the correct lead and carry on. (yes he is being properly warmed up etc)

He can walk backwards with ease even uphill for extended lengths. Can crossover his feet both directions. Does not stumble etc.

I decided to give him a month off with just all day turnout and see if any improvement. It backfired. He is so much worse!
Now he explodes at the trot. If you jog him in hand or on the lunge or whatever, same response. Lots of tail swishing and broncing/bucking etc.
He gets so upset. You can see the muscle spasm in his back.

If I pursue and just keep asking for short spurts of trot/walk/trot and lots of stretches (manual) and pulsating massage -he improves but is still not right.

This is a horse that does not show any sign of lameness so..of course people that don't know or understand, deem him crazy. He's not crazy. Not once does he try to kick or hurt the chiropractor or anyone else working on him.

He will work for you all day if you ask him.

As TC said, he is a 10+ mover when he feels right.

Massage and Chiro and NSAIDS help a great deal but the problem is still there. Its breaking my heart to see him like this.

I should mention he has been xrayed and is clean. Hoof angle was all toe and no heel on track. This has been corrected and he now stands correct and comfortable. He used to stand camped under. He no longer does that.

I''m considering acupuncture, bowen therapy.. anything that could help him.

Your ideas and suggestions are very welcome!

Here is a link to some pics of him.

http://gallery.me.com/equine#100066

[Hobbs]

"His nutrition program is excellent and has been individualized for him based on multiple analysis of everything."

To be honest he sounds very much like my Thoroughbred with EPSM. Is he on a high fat low NSC diet. If not I would be changing things ASAP.

[crewgirl34]

My mare is an OTTB as well. I cannot canter her during the winter because she does a lot of what your guy does--just seems uncomfortable/pain while cantering, muscles tight, bucking/bolting into the canter, etc. When she was really bad she'd do the same at the trot.

I have had her on Omega Horseshine and Amplify this year, and today, even though it was a balmy 8 F, I was still able to canter. I don't know why, but that's the only thing I have changed in the last 4 years, and this is the first year I've been able to canter when it's cold out. I know flax is good for muscles, so I'm assuming it's the Omega Horseshine that's helping.

Just my anecdotal experience. I hope you find what is going on and you can enjoy your boy.

[Blinkers On]

MMMM since he is ridden sporadically is it possible that the answer is kinda simple, like he is a ball of energy, thinks he is back in "training" and is just tight and fresh.
Most horses that we turn out come back very very humpy and fresh when they get back into training whether in an arena a training center or on track.
As always I am contrary, why not try riding him more than a couple of times in several months.
If not... why not try the university.

[Libera]

Omega Horseshine has extra omega 3 (sort of anti-inflammatory right?), maybe that's why?

Just guessing here...I had my Ottb on ricbran and BOSS for a while, but that was too much omega 6 and he got scratches that wouldn't go away. I changed to OHS and the scratches disappeared!

[Timex]

Just to throw it out there, as another poster did earlier, what about Lyme disease? It could easily give you the symptoms you describe. Around me, its so prevelant that its one of the first things I have the vet check for when dealing with a horse that has something even slightly wierd going on. Can't hurt to eliminate the possibility!

[murphyluv]

sounds like you've gotten a pretty extensive workup- but hopefully there are some other things you can have the vet rule out- as per other posters suggestions.
two small things I immediately thought of:
Back on Track blanket- seriously, worth their weight in gold.
www.backontrackproducts.com
Equine Touch. I have met many practioners and have been incredibly impressed. It is not just "massage".
http://us.theequinetouch.com/index.html
Contact Raian Kaiser- she's in Colorado, but is an international instructor, and may be able to help you find someone in Canada. You need at least a level 3 or 4 practitioner. equinetouchinfo@yahoo.com

[ivy62]

I would like to add that if he is so back sore the spasms may be very difficult to break up. I would try shockwave therapy. Worked wonders for my horse and coupled with the robaxin....was almost like a new horse in 24 hours...

[Samotis]

I would get a scan of his whole body. If there is heat any where it will heat up. Maybe then at least you can find the main issue of pain. Horses compensate a lot for painful areas. He could have one spot that is bad and that can cause his whole body to be sore.

I am sorry you are going through this. I hope you can figure out what is wrong with him. What worries me is that he got worse with time off. Could it possible be because of a growth spurt?

Maybe all the excercise for racing caused some issues and now that he is being only lightly worked, there are som areas that didn't grow right?

I know I have heard that young horses worked too hard can have a lot of back problems because they didn't develop and grow right when being raced. Could be some kind of spinal damage?

Please let us know on his progress. I am hoping you find a solution!

We would love to see pictures. He sounds beautiful! I love TBs too.

[ThirdCharm]

Chiro treatments have to be repeated regularly as the muscles are accustomed to being a certain way and will pull the bone structure out of alignment.... then they have to be readjusted, repeatedly, until the muscles learn new habits.

Been there, done that.

Jennifer

[murphyluv]

OP has already stated that chiro has been done repeatedly.

Is it still being done?

[Mara]

Oh wow, he's a knockout. I can see why you are holding out so much hope.
I second on the scan.

[kookicat]

You said he was sore when he came off the track- was he this bad? I wonder if changing his feet has something to do with it. Is he shod or barefoot?

[TrueColours]

murphyluv - I spoke to elequine last night. Chiropractor was out again yesterday to adjust him

She sent me this as well and is looking into having this lady come out to see him:


http://www.touchchanges.com/BowenforAnimals/EMRT.htm


Ive heard of Bowen - has anyone on here actually tried it? Good results?

[Thomas_1]

What's coming to me as a strong possibility is azutoria otherwise known as extertional rhabdomyolisis.

It's muscle damage resultant from that which I'd want to first rule out.

No matter though, I'd say the horse must be stopped lunging each day whilst it's so sore. Whatever it is, if it's sore and stiff moving it around in circles is the worst thing to do.

I'd say turnout and time would be preferable. Get more diagnostics and the more obvious chronic and serious conditions ruled out in the meantime and then give it 3 months rest and then further assess ..... but not by lunging!

[JackieBlue]

While I fully recognize that many behavioral anomalies can be pain related, I also recognize that resistance to riding, handling, etc. is also often unrelated to physical discomfort. Has the behavior change since coming off his little vacation coincided with the colder weather? My junior/big eq horse was a gorgeous, solid black OTTB who was a spectacular mover and talented as anything. Ran until he was 8. And most of the time he was sweet and fun, quiet and willing. But come winter....watch out! He was unpredictable under tack, at times felt like a ticking time bomb, would just explode into a perfect capriole, land and go right back into beautiful work. Sometimes his explosions were preceded by a catalyst - a horse across the ring tapped a rail, someone in the ring sneezed, the wind picked up - and sometimes he would just ball up and blow for no apparent reason. As soon as the weather would begin to warm up, he'd be back to his stunning, unbeatable self. We did everything - tack changes, chiro, accupuncture, vet work ups - and not a damn thing wrong with him. Physically, anyway. He was just different in cold weather, as are some people, dogs, cats, birds, etc... OP, I believe you said your horse is "exploding" and bucking. As someone with some serious back issues and a majorly bumb leg, I can tell you that the last thing I'd do with someone on my back is buck. I might suck back, be very resistant, swishy-tailed and sour, but buck? OUCH!! I'm not saying his back isn't bothering him, but tension through the back for any reason may appear similar to muscle spasming and forward, unpredictable explosive behavior would be near impossible in the throws of major muscle spasming in the back. One more question, what do you do when he's crotchity and explosive? Could he have learned that it earns him a nice break and a massage?

[NancyM]

I really like the RVI suggestion. I've used it, it worked well on the one I had. Problem WENT AWAY, and stayed away. It's cheap to try.

[ivy62]

I am very interested in the RVI, How is it given and how long? Is it a joint injection? My horse has had back problems on and off and this might be worth a try. He did respond very well to shockwave but lately he is not as happy as before.....Maybe this is worth a try....

[mzm farm]

I have seen a couple of horses with similar symptoms. They had very atypical myositis reactions to routine vaccines.

Both were middle aged/older geldings. Sweet, nice, well handled and well broke horses.
One got so bad you could not put a leadrope over his neck without him bucking like mad, petting/rubbing him lightly made him tail swish and pin his ears. He acted like you were zapping him anytime you touched him. Just reaching for him produced big eyes and anxiety.
The other we caught early - he started moving away from being pet/touched, but did not get extreme. He did get better with deep massage, but the problem came back. Chiro did help both and was part of treatment along with particular detox and supplements.

Both horses made full recoveries to their normal sweet, calm, cooperative selves.

I realize how unlikely it is that your horse has this problem, but it seems you have done a good job ruling out all the regular stuff.
Perhaps a consultation with a holistic type veterinarian could be helpful.

[elequine]

The horse is lunged loose in the arena, not on a circle :-)

Giving him time off resulted in an increase in pain and ill behavior

Horse was the most sore he had ever been when I gave him a month off

He is shod in order to grow a heel and keep his foot together, give him more to stand on etc. Improvement is noted since the angles have been corrected

When he explodes, he does not get any kind of break. He is immediately pushed to continue for a few strides until he is 'good' then is rewarded. He certainly hasn't learned that acting up is getting him any kind of positive result.

Bloodwork has ruled out any chance of PSSM or any type of Myolosis

He is very well blanketed on turnout and appears to enjoy his time outdoors.

His kidneys were flushed when I got him off the track

His diet was directed/reviewed by Dr.Pratt PhD - in equine nutrition.

Chiropractor was out yesterday - you could see the muscle spasms. It was clear he was in a great deal of pain and he had every reason in the world to want to hurt her while she was treating and examining him, however he doesn't. He threatens with the opposite leg, bites the air etc. I really believe his outward expressions/bursts are a communication of pain.

He always 'allows' us to stretch him,even though you can see he is anticipating the pain. When the pain is released after the painful stretch, he sighs, drops his head and looks relieved.
When loose lungeing, he always tries as well. Still does what I ask of him
No aggression issues at all

Chiropractor just loves working with him. His adjustments are quite regular and she will visit in between as needed.

Yes he is going through a growth spurt and I acknowledge that has aggravated the existing issues.

Chiropractor states that he is not out of alignment but is locked in the lumbar-sacral area. Improvement was noted after his treatment yesterday

His riding has only consisted of teaching him to stand for mounting, approach the block. learn what leg is, leg yielding, steering etc.. The basics.
He frames up beautifully and willingly. He is only ridden for short periods - 10minutes - as these are learning sessions. He learns quickly so we end it quickly.

So basically, at this stage, the loose lungeing in the arena is simply to just get him moving since its clear his condition worsens when he's on holiday.

As TC stated we are going to try Bowen therapy as I'm am concerned that his muscle memory is only remembering being tight and sore. - http://www.touchchanges.com/BowenforAnimals/EMRT.htm

Also going to look into flouroscoping his stifles to see what we can find -http://www.mpequine.com/Fluoroscopy.aspx
as well as Ultrasoundography for his sacral area - http://www.mpequine.com/Digital_Ultrasonography.aspx

For those that want to see him - http://gallery.me.com/equine/100066

He truly is more than a dark horse with lots of chrome. He's funny, affectionate, attentive, smart, great mover, honest etc...

[elequine]

I should add that he has also received IM injections of Adequan

:-)

[ivy62]

I am going to strongly suggest shockwave therapy. My horses back was a mess and we tried everything but the shockwave seemed to be the one thing the really helped and quickly...check it out...

[Claddagh]

WOW! :eek: Your boy is STUNNING!!!!

You've gotten a lot of very good suggestions, recommendations, etc. - basically a whole menu's worth!

My suggestion is simple, easy, and cheap by comparison -

One of my OTTBs was always a real pistol to brush. I think I bought just about every soft and softer brush on the market - he HATED them all. Pinned his ears, danced around like I was brushing him with razor blades!

After having a huge allergic reaction to some weed (turned into full blown vasculitis) and being on tons of drugs, I decided to put him on the supplement that one of our rescue horses is on for an old injury - Recovery EQ. (That horse literally cannot walk when taken off of Recovery - but on it he is just fine). So I felt that my OTTB's body could use all the help it could get as it recovered from the vasculitis.

Recovery is natural (not a drug), can't hurt him so I figured *why not*. Well, as it turns out he is still on the stuff! It has done him a world of good and one of the totally unexpected *side effects* is that he now LOVES to be brushed - even with stiff brushes! Go figure. Something within his body must have been lacking or whatever, and the Recovery *made it right*, (he had raced for 7 years and I got him a week after his last race). Anyway, like I said, he doesn't even bat an eye when being brushed now - hard brush, soft brush - doesn't matter - and he enjoys it! (and this has been the case for the past 4 years!).

So anyway, back to my suggestion. You might want to order some Recovery EQ and give it a try. It certainly cannot hurt and it may help!

http://www.recoveryeq.com/

___________________

[JackieBlue]

If you've found that moving helps him, is 24/7 turnout an option for you?

[CBoylen]

I am very interested in the RVI, How is it given and how long? Is it a joint injection?
No, not a joint injection. Subcutaneous. You can get the bottle from your vet and give it in the neck yourself. I don't remember the dosing protocol, but I believe we were finished within a week period. Other vets may of course have a different protocol for it for other horses.

[SpecialEffects]

I agree with those that have suggested electric shock treatment. It really is amazing at breaking up muscle masses and knots. My chiro usually switches me to laser after to reduce swelling and heal.

Beautiful horse.... good luck with him.

[columbus]

I agree that a metabolic issue may have been affecting him all along. RER/PSSM/EPSM etc. I would begin with diet changes advised and some of the recommendations given here would be pretty cruel to do to a horse who is suffering from a metabloic disorder. A friend has just been through a string of retraining TBs who had pretty frightening spine and limb changes to justify their reactions. The racing life can be very hard on spines as well as limbs. PatO

[kookicat]

Aww, he looks a lot like my boy. :) Yours is darker though.

Have you ruled out kissing spines?

Also, could you post a few pics of him now? :) There are a lot of experienced eyes on here who might pick something up from his posture etc.

[TrueColours]

I hope elequine has some current pics of him she can post.

When you see him "relaxed" (and I am using that term very facetiously at this time) in the cross ties, his hind legs are underneath his body - towards his mid point / stomach area and his front legs are under him as well, and his back is "up" and tight. Think of a mare that has foaled and hasnt expelled the placenta yet and is really really crampy - that is about as close as I can describe what he looks like. At "rest"

I saw him when he was due for another adjustment so perhaps after his chiro session he looks a lot happier and more relaxed ...

[sdlbredfan]

To me, this description screams sore suspensories 'his hind legs are underneath his body - towards his mid point'. I see what you mean, in the Princeaugust picture.

[CoolMeadows]

I recently went through something similar with a horse.... cross cantering, bucking, muscle spasms, SI issues and standing with hind legs under. We went through the chiro, myofascial release massage, shockwave etc... The issue turned out to be a ligament around the hip area that was popping out of place, so to speak, and causing serious pain. I was told the treatment was direct injections and that they may or may not hold. They did not. The horse was more comfortable for a brief amount of time, but is now retired at 8. The good news is that the diagnostics and first injection were less than $500. If that's your horse's issue I hope he has better results. Have you considered SI injections too?

[kookicat]

I hope elequine has some current pics of him she can post.

When you see him "relaxed" (and I am using that term very facetiously at this time) in the cross ties, his hind legs are underneath his body - towards his mid point / stomach area and his front legs are under him as well, and his back is "up" and tight. Think of a mare that has foaled and hasnt expelled the placenta yet and is really really crampy - that is about as close as I can describe what he looks like. At "rest"

I saw him when he was due for another adjustment so perhaps after his chiro session he looks a lot happier and more relaxed ...

Yeah, I was getting some of that in the picture of him loose. Didn't know if it was just that picture or not.

[M. O'Connor]

"His nutrition program is excellent and has been individualized for him based on multiple analysis of everything."

To be honest he sounds very much like my Thoroughbred with EPSM. Is he on a high fat low NSC diet. If not I would be changing things ASAP.

Ditto the advice, with the exception of suggesting that as he's a TB, RER be substituted for the abbreviation EPSM.

He's THREE. Give him the winter OFF, preferably in a field.

I'm very puzzled at this:

He could not go straight to rest for risk of tying up so he went from the coming off the track to me and just lunged loose in the arena, no exertion, a couple times a day.

A tying up episode would be the result of too much work, especially after confinement and enforced rest, not from too much rest.

[TrueColours]

He's THREE. Give him the winter OFF, preferably in a field.


I think the problem is, in some geographical locations that would be the smartest thing to do. Here - not so much ...

He has a coat on him like a seal and hasnt grown a bit of winter coat at all, so elequine does have him in appropriate winter turnout gear but take today for example. It was -14C with a wind chill pulling that down to about -25 to -30C which puts it at about the 0F area. It was bitterly bitterly cold and the wind was strong enough to literally take your breath away at times

For a horse that is already experiencing major muscle spasms, I just dont think leaving him out 24/7 where he is going to get no respite from the wind and cold at all, especially throughout the night, with no hair coat at all, is a prudent thing to do. IMO - he is going to get cold(er), tense up even more and the spasms are going to get worse. Now if he was living in the southern climes - 100% agree. That would be the absolute best thing in the world for him. Up here - now - not at all ... :no:

[Petstorejunkie]

Ditch the soy from his diet (i know weird, but I have a hunch)
load him full of robaxin and get a REALLY good acupuncturist
PUt him on at least 20hr turnout with gentle hills and decent shelter.
pet, snuggle, give cookies and re evaluate in 3 months

[redleaflady]

I know a lady that helps a lot of this type of horse (behavior problems, pain issues and so on that are unresolved by vet care). She gets a lot of horses shipped to her farm in SE Alabama for a month or so and they come out different animals. She is originally from Ontario and travels there frequently to work on horses. I believe she is looking to plan a trip up in the next couple weeks. She has developed her own system of non Chiropractic adjustments. It seems to be much more effective and longer lasting than traditional chiropractics. I personally have used her for an old navicular OTTB and she is now sounder than she has been in years (she offers to run and buck in the pasture) and a younger mare that lacerated a tendon as a yearling. The young horse was so crooked but did her job after the rehab process. She is now very straight and her gaits have improved greatly from where she was before her injury. The vets thought she would never be ridden. Anyway, if you are interested in getting up with her on one of her trips to Canada, PM me and I will give you her contact information. She has worked on a lot of horses like your friends with very good results.

[Cherry]

You can do all the testing in the world and all the chiropractic but the answer might be as simple as adding magnesium and calcium to the horse's diet. I'm surprised that Dr. Pratt didn't suggest it--if you ask him I'm sure he would tell you it won't hurt your horse and may even help him. Young, growing horses need more calcium and magnesium than older animals....

Calcium and magnesium (in a 2 to 1 ratio) are natural muscle relaxants and should help with those spasms the horse is having and also calm the horse. You can use calcium magnesium and magnesium oxide from the feed store or there are supplements out there that already contain these two items. I think there's a liquid out there that also contains B1 (thiamine) that is beneficial in calming as well--just can't remember who makes it.... I think it goes by the name of Thia-Calm or some such thing.

That would be the very first thing I would try--you can do all kinds of external things but it won't work unless and until the internal problem is rectified. Bear in mind that it may take two or more weeks to show any effect.

[barrelchick00]

He is a gorgeous boy!! I really hope you get him taken care of. This thread has helped me look at my mare and see what may be her problems. Thanks and Good luck!!!

[CBoylen]

I'm still dying of curiosity, can one of you Canadians please tell me why your vet was concerned about using Robaxin in cold weather?

[TrueColours]

elequine has got to answer that one CBoylen. :) Ive never used it hot weather or cold - so cant even hazard a guess as to why she cant use it now that the weather has turned cold ...

elequine - over to you! ;)

[TheOrangeOne]

My guess on the cold weather is that they're referring to the injectable. The compounded stuff I usually get is like maple syrup to begin with, so perhaps it thickens up so much in the cold weather that unless you kept the syringe in a heated container until directly before use, it would be too viscous to give. That's all I can come up with.

If this were my horse, I would take him off all processed food, and see if there's something he eats that he's sensitive to. I know a few horses that have something that they just can't eat, it makes them nuts. Alfalfa, Soy, and Barley are all common culprits.

[feetofclay1678]

[QUOTE=elequine;4591624]Chiro says he's locked up in sacro-lumbar area and is VERY sore.
At the canter he bunny hops and bucks like a bronc and it appears he is trying to release something. Then he is able to land on the correct lead and carry on. (yes he is being properly warmed up etc)

I would really recommend having a myofascial therapist work on him. I have one that is just incredible(besides working on my guys, she works on multiple olympians' horses), and has literally brought my guy back from the brink. it is absolutely incredible how many different issues can be corrected by having the fascia straightened.

[Melyni]

It's cheap, easy to do and can be very helpful on tight sore muscles.
AS she is in Canada, she won't be able to get most of the usual supplements with Mg in them. But if she goes to the health food store and gets some epsom salts and gives him 1-4 tsp a day it will give her an idea of whether or not Mg is helping.
You can't keep them on Epsom salts forever, but it is an inexpensive way to see if Mg helps.

If she decides that it is helping and wants to continue then she needs to egt some Mag Ox, or better still Mag gluconate. A search on the internet will help her find those.
Yours
MW

[elequine]

Thanks so much everyone. I think he's quite handsome too!
:-)

Kissing spine has been ruled out

Yes he has evidence of an old injury to the ligament over the SI. It has scar tissue but appears to have almost fully healed. In August, his ligament on the right side of the SI was hot and inflamed - likely due to compensation for the injury to the left.

The vet won't use Robaxin at all in the winter. He said that it crystalizes rapidly when exposed to cold and since you have to inject the entire 100ml bottle, it will crystalize before the dose can be completed. He absolutely will not use it in the winter. :-(

He is already getting calcium/magnesium supplemented in his diet

Never gets sweetfeeds etc.

As TC stated, it is terribly cold here. In spite of wearing the warmest pj's,polar fleece,stable quilt with a big Shedrow Gold on top, he is just too cold outside. Today he was hunched over and shivering miserably making his muscles even more tense. So he was brought back in and loose lunged in the arena.


The photo of him from August where he is loose and standing camped under - that was how he stood. I am happy to report that since his hoof angles have been corrected, he no longer stands that way. He stands correctly under himself and the hamstrings are loosening up considerably.

I would love to turn this horse out and leave him to grow and just be a horse, however, he is not suitable for 24/7 in the arctic cold climate we are in for over the next few months.TC isn't kidding when she says he is slick like a seal.

Believe me! I have 3 OTTBs at home that have been on a long term holiday. I am the biggest promoter of this.

I will look into the Shockwave Therapy as an option for him.

I'll post current pictures of him soon. Thanks again everyone!

[TheOrangeOne]

Robaxin also comes in pills, which is a much more commonly used form. Ask your vet about it, it's easier and just as effective for muscle pain as the injectable, and I assume no risk of it freezing.

[SquishTheBunny]

TB's can grow a wonderful coat - do what you can to keep him comfortable now, but turn him out 24/7 once the weather becomes more suitable. He will adjust fine for next winter - I have two TB's that can liveout 24/7, and one is a show horse - he did the Ontario A's in a competitive division while being a "field horse" He had NEVER lived outside before and since he was 5 spent the winters in Florida. Last year he lived most nights out - and he couldnt have been happier. Of course, I let him get accustomed to it over the fall. And hes probably only a few hours away from where you are - no warmer here! Last year in winter turn out he was even clipped, but wore 2 balankets with hoods to keep him warm.

My other TB looks quite a bit like yours. He was supposed to be a fancy A horse but has soundness issues. He is sore and leaving him alone makes him worse. He does best with light work at least a few times a week. He is an angel though, never complains, never bolts/bucks or says boo, but I can tell when out of work he is crunchy. Hes only 8 and got a clean bill of health at PPE 4 years ago. Something was just "off" with him from the beginning. Nothing a chiro could fix, nothing accupuncture could fix. Best thing for him is 24/7 turnout with 2 thick rambos and moderate activity. He is happiest this way. Even with thousands of dollars in imaging/trials and vet visits he wont be the show horse I was hoping - but I am privileged to own such an amazing pet and as long as I can keep him happy he will be a forever pet.

[jalean]

I'd lean towards nutrition and/or conformation, especially nutrition since all of your fixes have only been temporary. I know you have a nutritionist working on his diet, but it's always good to get a second opinion. An upset Ca/P ratio could cause the symptoms you're describing, and there are many other minerals that can fool his body into thinking there is a problem with that ratio. His conformation also won't help him with a body soreness issue. I'd take a second look at his nutrition and turn him out 24/7 for a couple of months to just let him relax and work out his kinks from racing unless he's in serious pain, then re-evaluate.

This is certainly interesting, keep us posted.

[AnotherRound]

I would turn him outmore - really let him down. Bring him in for chiro and massage and not work him, not ride him, turn him back out. Get him so he isn't sore while just being turned out and living.

I would also be treating his tight muscles with relaxants of any kind, as this is imperative to get under control.

I would also look at his feet. Most TBs from the track have nightmare feet. I wouldn't ride him (next summer) if his feet aren't yet improved. I hvnt seen a photo, so don't know abouyt his feet, just suggesting.

[TrueColours]

TB's can grow a wonderful coat - do what you can to keep him comfortable now, but turn him out 24/7 once the weather becomes more suitable. He will adjust fine for next winter -

Some honestly dont

My Spot Pocket stallion came up from the Carolina's and arrived in February with NO coat. He spent that winter under multiple blankets. Next winter I was bound and determined to not blanket him. He was out for 10-12 hours a day - unblanketed - and come December / January when I saw him huddled and shivering miserably out in the cold, I gave in and figured he never was going to grow a coat. He spent the rest of his 2nd winter up here under blankets as well

Winter #3 was the same. Kept him outside with no blankets trying to kick start the hair growing gene and no way. *I* gave in again in December/January and gave him his blankets back again. And he was in an uninsulated colder barn as well, so its not like he was molly coddled when he come inside either ...

So we tried for 2+ years and that wasnt enough to get his coat growing and I mean his didnt even get fluffy at all - he maintained a sleek, fine hair coat year round

Maybe some just plain dont grow coats at all???

[CBoylen]

You'd want to use the robaxin in pill form for an ongoing back problem anyway. I know you have it up there, I've had people come south with it.

[Nojacketrequired]

May I respectfully suggest that if you have access to Dr. Daryl BONDER of all people that you stop pissing around and just take him there and get him fixed? :) The man's a genius.

And yes, you can easily get the Robaxin to grind up at Shopper's, if your vet can't get it. Get the off brand, and get a Shopper's card for points because you're going to need LOTS of it.

NJR

[kookicat]

You keep saying 'loose lunged'. Can you tell us what you do with him while he's being lunged? :)

How is he if you put a lunge line on him and ask him to go in a big circle?

[CBoylen]

I wanted to add, I would also work him a couple times sedated to see how much of your behavior issue is pain related and how much is young TB in cold weather related.

[SquishTheBunny]

Some honestly dont

My Spot Pocket stallion came up from the Carolina's and arrived in February with NO coat. He spent that winter under multiple blankets. Next winter I was bound and determined to not blanket him. He was out for 10-12 hours a day - unblanketed - and come December / January when I saw him huddled and shivering miserably out in the cold, I gave in and figured he never was going to grow a coat. He spent the rest of his 2nd winter up here under blankets as well

Winter #3 was the same. Kept him outside with no blankets trying to kick start the hair growing gene and no way. *I* gave in again in December/January and gave him his blankets back again. And he was in an uninsulated colder barn as well, so its not like he was molly coddled when he come inside either ...

So we tried for 2+ years and that wasnt enough to get his coat growing and I mean his didnt even get fluffy at all - he maintained a sleek, fine hair coat year round

Maybe some just plain dont grow coats at all???

...and some grow coats, and you shave them off - and still turn them out :)

Both my TB's are FURRY beasts, my warmblood is naked as anything. Some grow great, others dont - but its what is natural for them. Obviously dont throw a horse with no blanket out in Feb, but really horses do well with adjusting their own body temperature. Just saying that the "short coat TB" could do just wonderful outside next winter. Just because they are a TB or a show horse doesnt mean they cant stay warm outside. Blanket them, give them a shelter and you be suprised how much weight they gain, how much sounder they are and happier.
NOT saying that all horses must be out - not at all - I keep one of mine in this winter for MY convenience of not having to go out into the field to get him. HE however, after a week of convincing that it isnt so bad, would resume his love for turnout :)

[Hampton Bay]

I have a QH who refuses to grow a winter coat. She is slick and shiney all winter, even when she was in KY. She always hated the cold, and would beg to be let in even when she was blanketed. Some of them adjust, and some just don't. This mare's daughter seems to be the same way, only the filly does grow a coat. It just doesn't appear to keep her warm.

OP, could you put pics of the hooves? There are some wonderful people on here who could tell you if there is anything there that could still be causing an issue.

[elequine]

Robaxin also comes in pills, which is a much more commonly used form. Ask your vet about it, it's easier and just as effective for muscle pain as the injectable, and I assume no risk of it freezing.

I inquired at my vet clinic about this option --

This is not an option. Horse would require 60-70 pills 3 times a day. Compound Pharmacy will not make it since it is commercially available. :(

[DraperEquine]

What a beautiful horse for sure! I really hope everything can get worked out. Some horses seem to be an endless puzzle, but once you get everything together it can be extremely rewarding. Has anyone thought of alternative therapy blankets during the time when the horse is blanketed? I would have said Robaxin too, but that was mentioned awhile ago!

[elequine]

BTW- Dr. Bonder is one of our veterinarians.

I am a huge fan of 24 turnout. My other 7 horses are all out 24/7 and only one is blanketed.
If it were an option for this horse, I would happily do it.
Outdoors he wears his Bossy Bib, Polar Fleece, Shedrow Stable Quilt and the warmest Shedrow turnout rug on top. This week- that was not enough to keep him warm - he was hunched over and shaking so I brought him inside. He was exhausted and laid down for the rest of the day.

I've put him back on bute, while we await the next therapy appointment, and his behavior is improving.

If I sedate him, he is still ill behaved, just not as energetic but still somewhat explosive.

Lungeing on a circle is very hard on him. Loose lungeing gives him straighter lines to work on and this is much easier on him overall.

[katarine]

he is lovely and I wish you the best in sorting him out. These long winters are hard :(

[CBoylen]

I inquired at my vet clinic about this option --
This is not an option. Horse would require 60-70 pills 3 times a day. Compound Pharmacy will not make it since it is commercially available. :(
I don't want you to think I'm being pushy about this, but I don't understand it. Any horse that I've ever seen or heard of treated for a back program has gone on a period of Robaxin. The pills, not the injectable, because it needs to build up in the system to be effective, and you need to give it daily or 2x daily for an extended period of time. For every case I've ever been party to, in real life or on this board, treatment has been able to be accomplished with doses of 10-15 of the 500mg or 750mg Robaxin (Methocarbamol) pills.
So for your vet to tell you that your horse needs a dose of 7 times the normal horse, and to be using the injectable at 100ml at a time, they must have a very good reason or a good idea of what is going on with the horse. I'd be really interested to hear their reasoning, and to learn why a more regular dose wouldn't be at least slightly beneficial.

[Beasmom]

Ditto what CBoylen said. That's a whopping dose your vet recommends. When my gelding developed a back problem, Vet had him on 10 pills a day. He was on complete rest and the pills for two weeks. Your mileage may vary, but THAT much? Can't be right. Was this Dr. Bonder's recommendation?

[M. O'Connor]

Agree with C. Boylen on the Robaxin, except that I don't think it's cumulative; according to USEF D&M rules, it must be withdrawn only 6 hours out; I would think that would be longer if there was any sort of residual effect.

The effects and correct dosage for Robaxin is widely known, as it is pretty commonly used with muscle sore horses, particularly back-sore ones.

My RER horse would get it after competing, following the recommended the dosage as per scrip of 10 of the 500mgs or 6.5 of the 750mg. I didn't need to give it for extended periods, but have trained horses who have had it prescribed by a vet for up to several weeks because of back strain.

There would be no reason to exceed the recommended dosage, and I don't believe that doing so would actually be advocated by a vet.

For one reason or another, the owner of the horse who is the subject of this thread doesn't share the opinion of others that whatever it is they've had luck with might work in her horse's case.

It's improbable that that would be true, but resisting/rejecting all suggestions makes for a long thread; maybe that's the point (and appears to be a typical MO of the OP from time to time). It's been a pretty slow week otherwise in most places, what with winter and all.

[kookicat]

Have you tried carrot streches with him? You'd have to start off pretty slowly, and build up. They should help his flexibility and might help.

[ivy62]

I sent my horse to Cornell for unknown lameness and other issues, he too came back with a ridiculous dosage for Robaxin..I did what my vet said I think it was 10 pills am and pm and the shockwave was wonderful....I know you said you checked for lyme but did you do only the ELISA or did you do Western Blot too? You might try treating him anyway...Also how about a good old fashioned WOOL blanket. They are the best...even if they are wet they will insulate. I use mine over my Irish knit when my horse is soaked from working and yes he is trace clipped, (needs to be done again) and he warms and drys like a champ..

[elequine]

Agree with C. Boylen on the Robaxin, except that I don't think it's cumulative; according to USEF D&M rules, it must be withdrawn only 6 hours out; I would think that would be longer if there was any sort of residual effect.

The effects and correct dosage for Robaxin is widely known, as it is pretty commonly used with muscle sore horses, particularly back-sore ones.

My RER horse would get it after competing, following the recommended the dosage as per scrip of 10 of the 500mgs or 6.5 of the 750mg. I didn't need to give it for extended periods, but have trained horses who have had it prescribed by a vet for up to several weeks because of back strain.

There would be no reason to exceed the recommended dosage, and I don't believe that doing so would actually be advocated by a vet.

For one reason or another, the owner of the horse who is the subject of this thread doesn't share the opinion of others that whatever it is they've had luck with might work in her horse's case.

It's improbable that that would be true, but resisting/rejecting all suggestions makes for a long thread; maybe that's the point (and appears to be a typical MO of the OP from time to time). It's been a pretty slow week otherwise in most places, what with winter and all.


EXCUSE ME? Where in this thread does it say that I have rejected ANY suggestions? Just yesterday someone PM'd me and their services are being booked.

Many people don't have time to read all the posts so may assume the horse is not getting this or that. Or assume the horse has this or that-- even though its been stated as ruled out. I don't expect anyone to read all the posts and have been thankful for those offering suggestions and advice.

If I have failed to acknowledge specific people for posting, I apologize.

The horse has had supplements galore, dietary consultations and changes, endless bloodwork, lameness exams by three vets, xrays, multiple chiropractic, massage therapies and is presently awaiting Bowen therapy and a Flouroscope. Shockwave therapy is in line but they want the flouroscope first. Not to mention all the efforts exhausted on the track and their team. We don't have Niagara Equissage (sp?) in Canada that I'm aware of but have just gotten contact info for someone in the US and am talking to them today.

I will check on the Robax again, but because we are in Canada, it could be that the strength of the drug is weaker and therefore requires more? I didn't misunderstand the vet. He texted it to me and commented that because of the high number of pills, its not an option. I forwarded his text message to True Colors because I was so shocked.

How can anyone think I have rejected the idea of Robax? I ordered it long before this thread was posted and was denied it due to the cold. This thread prompted me to inquire about the oral, which I happily did and the vet's response was one that clearly shows me its not an option. I have not rejected this at all but if in Canada the strength is so low that I would have to crush and feed 60pills 2-3 times a day, clearly that is not an option. Even more so with the fact that the horse is a master at detecting drugs in his food and turns his nose up at it. Orally syringing such a large amount would result in a mess and incorrect dose actually getting 'in'.

Has anyone IN ONTARIO CANADA ever used oral Robax for horses? Please tell me if you have.

I continue to thank everyone who has offered advice and support and know that all options are considered and much has been and is being done.

[elequine]

Have you tried carrot streches with him? You'd have to start off pretty slowly, and build up. They should help his flexibility and might help.

Yes! We do this after walking for at least ten minutes and at the end of loose lungeing in the arena. Also do 'banging' with a warm towel.

Carrot stretches are GREAT!
:winkgrin:

[bdj]

How can anyone think I have rejected the idea of Robax? I ordered it long before this thread was posted and was denied it due to the cold.

I have nothing useful to add here in regards to the treatment, but I'm wondering if this particular clip from your latest post may answer the question of why no liquid Robaxin in Canada due to cold...
Could it be a supplier issue? ie., "We don't ship specific items when the temperatures are expected to be above or below a specific range?" Much like you can't get chocolates shipped from Fannie Mae in the summer, because once the stuff leaves their hands, they can't have reasonable confidence that it'll survive the delivery period. Injectables to Canada could be the flip-side of that issue.

Pulled this from the medi-vet.com site (and clipped the relevant bits):
"Vaccines/Refrigerated Items Exceptions:
* Vaccines/Refrigerated items are temperature sensitive and must ship Next Day or Second Day Air.
* Vaccines/Refrigerated items are shipped only when the scheduled date of arrival falls on a weekday.
* Vaccines/Refrigerated items cannot be shipped outside the US because they are temperature sensitive."

Just hoping to clarify an issue that seemed confusing for a number of us.
Best of luck in getting your lovely boy comfortable and happy again.

[elequine]

Here is the text conversation with the vet re: Dose of Robaxin

Click on the text screen images to see.
http://gallery.me.com/equine#100066

I'm green, he's white.

[TrueColours]

elequine explained to me as well, that under a certain temperature the Robaxin (in injectable form) starts to crystallize and can no longer be injected and with the amount the vet needed to inject and how slowly it needed to be done, doing it in our temps right now simply wont work. You'd literally have to bring Prince into a heated room each day for his injections

I have learned a lot from this thread as well - from suggestions made and the PM's received that I have forwarded on to elequine for her info

I am REALLY looking forward to the day all of his issues are sorted out and I can go and cheer elequine on in the hunter ring with him! :)


and appears to be a typical MO of the OP from time to time

and M O'Connor - give me a frigging break ... :rolleyes:

elequine has tried several times to get a user name on COTH and was unable to do so. I tried and got one for her right away. She then couldnt sign on under that name, but I could with no problem at all. We couldnt figure out what the problem was, so I PM'd Mod1, explained the issues she was having, and something in her user profile was reset and she could now start posting under her own user name. THAT is why *I* started this thread originally because elequine was baffled and frustrated and looking for something else to try and consider doing with him that perhaps she wasnt aware of, and she couldnt start it herself. Nothing more nefarious and sinister than that, other than one friend helping out another ... ;)

[Beasmom]

I just had a look at your gallery, elequine. Beautiful horse! I sure hope you can get to the bottom of his issue(s).

I believe everyone here is trying to be helpful. All I can do from Colorado is tell you what my experience has been with Robaxin. The highest dose I've heard of is 20 500 mg Robaxin pills per day. For my gelding, 10 of those daily was sufficient. Certainly there are be instances where a higher dose is required. I'd love to hear the rest of the story, when and if you solve this mystery.

It's an education for all of us!

[kookicat]

Is there any other muscle relaxant drugs that could be an option? :)

[SquishTheBunny]

I am from Ontario!

Used ROBAXIN (not Robax?) 10 pills once daily. Great improvement. This was about 5 years ago though, so cant remember the mg dose.

If your vet said 60-70 pills, why not give it a try? If you are willing to try anything, than go for it. Ive had to give a horse 100 pills of prednisone before in one dose. Dilute them in a syringe with HOT water to dissolve and squirt in mouth.

I dont understand why 60-70 pills CANT be given. Expensive, yes...but if for this horse money isnt an object, than go for it! Do a week trial and see what happens. Your likely going to spend upwards of a few thousand trying different methods!

Also, try speaking with some pharmacies in the US, some will compound the drug at higher miligram dosages requring feeding less pills.

I think its more of a PITA for YOU to administer that many pills, not that its "not an option". Just make sure your local shoppers has that many in stock!!! :)

Maybe if you find that works, you could to a trial of a tapering dose?? I seriously noticed a difference of only 10 pills/day with my horse - but go by what your vet says (or get a second opinion!).

Have you spoken with a neurologist at guelph? Even a small animal neurologist may offer some suggestions. Wondering if a MRI, or CT or myelogram may be a next step your vet is thinking back, but the robaxin doesnt work?

[SquishTheBunny]

Forgot to mention - what your vet is saying is the LABELED use. You can most certainly use dugs off use and many vets WILL do this.

Ie. Adequan. Labeled use is 1 injection every 4 days for 7 days. However, many vets say one shot monthly. More Effective? Who knows, but Id say 90% of people using adequan dose that way.

Did your vet say NOT to try less Robaxin? I would think that would at least be worth a try. You arent going to overdose your horse on LESS than recommended by your vet.

[Beasmom]

I found it unnecessary to grind up Robaxin pills for my gelding, though my coach, when her horse was on it, did have to do that.

Depends on the horse. My guy at the stuff like candy. Grinding them and putting the powder in a bran mash or apple sauce might work, too.

[TrueColours]

Squish - dont know if you've priced the Robaxin at Shoppers Drug Mart lately ;) but even the no name brands are around $20.00 for a package of 16. So if he needs around 185 a day, thats a whopping $230.00 a day in medication for him, plus trying to figure out how he actually can ingest 185 of them daily!

I wonder too if the dosage or concentration size / pill size is totally different in the States and hence your need to use far less than what is being said up here?

Thats almost a full time job, grinding up 185 pills a day into a fine enough powder and getting it down his throat ...

[Beasmom]

OK, I just looked up Robax vs. Robaxin on a Canadian meds site.

Robax is Methocarbamol and Ibuprophen (I think -- I just left the site and already forgot!) No RX needed. So maybe that's why the vet recommended so many pills? Less of the "good stuff"?

Robaxin is just Methocarbamol and you need an RX for it. The prices are not that bad, especially since you can probably get away with fewer pills of the "pure" Methocarbamol.

There were three "varieties" of Robax/Robaxin on the site. I Googled it. Easy!

Seriously, try the horse on 10 or 15 Robaxin (the real thing, not the stuff cut with Ibuprophen or Aspirin or whatever!) daily and see what happens. No harm, no foul if nothing changes.

[CBoylen]

The ubiquitous Canadian Pharmacy ads tell me you can get the same 750mg Methocarbamol up there as we can get here. The prices do seem ridiculous though, from my limited web searching. Farmvet sells a 500 pill bottle for $54. I have no idea if they will ship to Canada.
Seriously, 10 of the 750mg pills per day is a very sufficient dose for a serious issue, although you could go a bit higher. It's more than we're allowed to show on here. It also melts just fine in a dose syringe.

[darkbay]

I am in Ontario. Last January my horse was on powdered methocarbamol as a muscle relaxant. Apple flavoured, he ate it ok in his feed.


Yes he has evidence of an old injury to the ligament over the SI. It has scar tissue but appears to have almost fully healed. In August, his ligament on the right side of the SI was hot and inflamed - likely due to compensation for the injury to the left.

Do you mind if I ask how the SI issues were diagnosed? My vet tells me they can only get an incomplete picture with ultrasound. Thanks.

[elequine]

Ok! I'm going to buy the 500mg Robaxin tomorrow and start with the ten tablets.

Fingers crossed!

:-)

[Beasmom]

Check back in a week or two and let us know how things are going for you and your beautiful boy!

[Fharoah]

Sounds like you have done allot of diagnostics and theropy. As I said earlier in the tread why not a bone scan? I really do hope your friend can make her horse right. I really hope things work out for her!

[Mozart]

TC mentioned that his hoof angles were screwy. Although they are now fixed I believe that bad farrier work like that can really set a horse up for long term problems due to muscle imbalance. Are the feet completely fixed or still a work in progress? Given how long you have had him I would guess the feet have not been completely fixed yet.

I would not be surprised if it takes quite a while until muscle imbalance is comletely resolved. I am going to guess that tincture of time is what is going to ultimately resolve this and that all resulting problems began with the front feet.

Best of luck and I am glad he landed in your barn, not too many people would put that much effort into sorting him out.

[TrueColours]

TC mentioned that his hoof angles were screwy.

Actually elequine did ... :) ... and I never saw him in the very beginning when he first came off the track - only a couple of months afterwards when the trimming work was well underway already

Best of luck and I am glad he landed in your barn, not too many people would put that much effort into sorting him out.

Agreed. :yes: I am half expecting elequine to make up the spare bedroom for him next, so he can be nice and comfy cozy and warm inside ... :lol:

[kookicat]

Might not be an option, but what about sending him to a lay up farm somewhere warm?

[SquishTheBunny]

PM me if you want, I can get the 500 and 750mg at cost rather than purchasing through a pharmacy :) 0.54 cents per 500mg tab.

[SquishTheBunny]

Squish - dont know if you've priced the Robaxin at Shoppers Drug Mart lately ;) but even the no name brands are around $20.00 for a package of 16. So if he needs around 185 a day, thats a whopping $230.00 a day in medication for him, plus trying to figure out how he actually can ingest 185 of them daily!

I wonder too if the dosage or concentration size / pill size is totally different in the States and hence your need to use far less than what is being said up here?

Thats almost a full time job, grinding up 185 pills a day into a fine enough powder and getting it down his throat ...

But you did mention that cost wasnt a concern. I can get them for cost price, which should cut the bill in half. And her vet said 2 - 4 times a day, you are dosing for 4 times? Why not try 2 x first? Also, no need to grind - in hot water they will dissolve.

[TrueColours]

Squish - I'll email elequine and let her know. Even if she gets this first batch at Shoppers I'm sure she will REALLY appreciate your offer for more of them! :)

Yeah - I think costs isnt a concern up to a point but at $230.00 a DAY or a whopping $1610.00 a WEEK :eek: I think she will be drawing the line at that amount and if she doesnt, I'm sure that her hubby would! ;)

[SquishTheBunny]

OK I was reading the text's your vet sent you, and makes sense now. I think you and TC are averaging at the "upper" end of the spectrum. With most trials, you are going to start mid-low range and go from there.

So, at 20mg/kg (typical Robaxin dose), your horse would require 20 pills of the 500mg.

However, your vet said to double or even triple the dose for oral medication. Which would mean 40 to 60 pills of the 500mg.


Say low dose is 20 pills (as per your vet), and high dose is 60 pills. Range from 2 to 4 times per day.


As per your vet:

low dose (20 pills) at 2x day would be 40 pills per day, a cost of approx $22 per day.

That is Double to QUADROUPLE the dose that many here (and myself personally) have found effective.

your vets high dose would be 60 pills x 4 times daily = 240 pills, $132 per day. I would think that if your horse received that many pills, a riding career for him may not be the best option.

Also, Robaxin is not labeled for long term use. I would be a little concerned keeping my horse on a high dose of Robaxin longer than recommended by the manufacturers.

Anyway, the $22 treatment doesnt seem unreasonable for a trial.

[Nojacketrequired]

Any updates?

NJR

[kookicat]

Any updates?

NJR

Thanks for bumping this. I've been wondering too. Hope he's okay!

[MassageLady]

You need to have him massaged-2X week for first 2 weeks, then once a week...after the first 2 weeks get a chiro=muscles should be looser by then and accept the adjustment--then the last 2 weeks massage...do maintenance if needed.:yes:

[wendybird]

Come in elequine and TrueColours!

I'd like to hear how he's going too!

I was intrigued by the horse's inability to keep himself warm(ish) even with a full winter wardrobe. (Yes I noted the temperatures) This indicated to me: 1. that his thermo-regulation mechanisms were faulty; why? and 2. that he's a very sick boy, especially as he had to spend the rest of the day lying down.
There's more than a bit of spasm going on there IMO.

It's a tragedy that a young horse with such potential has been made to suffer so much. I agree with those who recommend 24/7 turnout in a herd and space. That's what I would do, forget about him while he grew bone and cardiac fitness and have another look in 18 months. With horses, time can heal a lot of problems.

I had a mare which twisted her SI getting out of a fence. The back end could hardly follow the front. Chiro refused to manipulate her because of what he called deep tissue damage, and said turn her out for 12 months and then he would look at her. 12 months later he had a look, did his manipulations and suddenly there she was - moving freely and with an 8" overstep. The gleam in her eye when she found she could move easily again was a pleasure to behold.

I wondered at the beginning if he was letting down from steroids - given while his trainer was trying to force him into racing mode. I once got an Tb mare 3 months off the track which was incredibly bad tempered and not thriving. Vet did bloods and ticked the steroid box as an afterthought, and what do you know? Poor thing was suffering steroid rage/withdrawal. We turned her out for 8 months and she came back fine. Sometimes less intervention is more.

[Equino]

Lyme and ulcer testing - I dont think so - but that wouldnt explain the muscle spasms in his lumbar and pectoral and chest areas that does abate with massage, light work and chiro ...

I'm late to the party, but just wanted to share my story...

I have been dealing with something similar with a young horse-VERY tight through his back and while never lame, just seemed uncomfortable behind. Vet did a flexion exam, nothing turned up. I have him on a high fat diet-Ultium, rice bran and he also gets flax seed and Vit E and Se. I talked to my vet about Robaxin (she recommended starting with 8 tabs of 750mg AM/PM) and Banamine (500lbs AM/PM for 3 days), as well as the possibility of chiro/acupuncture, doing a course of RVI and/or shockwave if he didn't get better. Robaxin/Banamine seemed to do the trick, and after two weeks, I had weaned him off the Robaxin, all seemed well.

A week later, he was extremely sore (still not lame) and pissy about my leg, completely out of character. A second vet who also does chiro/acupuncture looked/worked on him, found he was quite body sore, but nothing out of whack, so drew blood for Lyme. Lyme titer came back unimpressive, but it was higher than when last tested a year ago. Upon her recommendation, I changed my saddle and what I was using under it-I used to use a Thinline pad, but when he grew/changed and my saddle wasn't fitting right, I switched to a Beval's sheepskin pad. Went back to the Thinline pad and changed blankets since he also had back rubs. I had him back on Robaxin and the following week, he felt SO MUCH better, I thought we were on the right track.

When he returned back to being uncomfortable a week after chiro work, I had my primary vet check him over-she initially suspected we were dealing with ulcers-but found he was REALLY muscle sore everywhere she'd touch, across his back, butt, shoulder and chest areas, and had muscle spasms. We opted to treat him with Doxy. He was also on Banamine for the 1st few days. 3 weeks into treatment now and he is a different horse-he's doing more work on the flat and he's much more relaxed and willing to work than he was before. We're slowly bringing him along over fences, but so far are very happy with his progress. I am still keeping a very close eye on him, I know doxy has anti-inflammatory properties as well, so I'll wait and see how he is after treatment.

Point is, Lyme is tricky and can present in many different ways...muscle soreness without being lame included.

[Chall]

Disclaimer:I don't know anything regarding the medical aspects of this.
If I were a horse, just off a stressful life of the track, I'd want a laid back pony in my stall, who'd reassure me that everything is going to be a-okay. Paging Trever's pony.. A stalled race horse might be expecting to be raced at any moment. A pony, who has led a good trusting life, can keep that TB mind busy, off of anticipation, off of memories.
Just a thought. A friend is a good thing.

[elequine]

UPDATE!

Thanks for your interest!

I'm happy to say... This horse has much improved! So much so that he is now in training 5 days a week and will start hacking out this week.

I put him on Robaxin for a few weeks combined with Chiro and Massage
Made sure he was always warm so lots of blankets. If he got cold, his back would tense up and it would cause a set back. He would flinch if you even brushed his back, after being cold. I even went as far as sewing pockets into his blanket and inserted two hot water bottles wrapped in towels.
He also received Acupuncture, which was needed to get the muscles to really release. The drugs worked but the muscles seemed to keep tightening, so this was the most effective way to release it and keep it that way.


I switched his feed to KER product, which is called Untie in Canada. This is a great product and I highly recommend it.

He is also fed Baking Soda on a daily basis as well as Vit E & Selenium supplement.

His behavior went from running blind in pain, bucking, bolting etc., to following me around like a puppy dog. His facial expression is now relaxed and happy.

I really should post some before and after videos! You would be in awe at how willing and cooperative this horse is now. The connection is definitely there.

He does still tie up when trailered to a new place for any purpose. However, it is much milder than what was experienced in the past and his recovery is much quicker. This is something that is showing improvement and over time, I expect it will subside. We have trailer outings where he goes a short distance, is only fed something yummy or allowed to hand graze and then returns home.

Slowly, he is losing his reputation as 'the crazy horse', as dubbed by those that couldn't fathom that his behavior was driven by health issues.
BTW- he dumped his jockey's every day when he was at the track. I'm sure they would be shocked if they could see him go now! He frames up beautifully and goes along with the softest mouth, responding to the lightest aids. He's a dream to work with!

He enjoys working, loves the mental stimulation and tries very hard at any task requested. I hope to have him living outdoors by the end of the Spring season.

Thank you so much for all your advice and offers to help. One person in particular that spent time bouncing back and forth with private messages about KER and other valuable resources... You know who you are and I thank you thank you thank you.

Also thank you TC for pushing me to this forum to seek help. You saw what I saw and you knew what I knew - this horse really is something and worthwhile, even though so many wanted to write him off.

[kookicat]

Awesome update. :) Hope he keeps improving.

[ivy62]

This is wonderful news and thank god he is with you! I have a horse that was written off because they said no way were his issues pain..I stuck with him and he has setbacks every once in awhile but we are doing okay..
You are cetainly an inspiration..Keep up the good work. I had a nutritionist at KER revamp my horses diet a few years ago and he has done amazing on it....