View Full Version : How to stop the tb that pulls down after jumps? Help with trainer?
Dec. 26, 2009, 07:43 PM
Dec. 27, 2009, 05:41 AM
If it has not been done in the last six months, have the fit of your saddle checked and adjusted by an independent professional.
Secondly, the horse is clearly green.
All eight jumps are not going to be perfect every course.
When jumping a green horse, you can usually work on one thing at a time; so the approach, the jump, OR the away. Having an opinion on all three every jump can overwhelm a green horse who is just starting out.
I have a coming 5yo who is lovely, and every once in a while likes to throw in a ginormous buck after a jump. The other day he really got me and I went sailing. I have accepted that I'm going to come off a couple more times before he's consistent.
My plan is to ride it out the best I can and then move immediately on to the next jump without making a deal out of it.
I would suggest the same for your horse. Ride out the moment, and matter of factly head to the next jump.
He's only five.
Also, if you can't get him to work on the bit lightly and fluidly yet, he isn't ready to jump. This sounds like a horse where you and he could spend a good month at walk trot doing circles, changes of direction, a couple baby legyields, etc until he is actually on your aids instead of running around below them. When he's easy at the trot, THEN canter. Yes, it could take a couple weeks. When he's easy at the canter, THEN jump.
Not So Practical Horse(WO)man
Dec. 27, 2009, 06:27 AM
Its sounds like he's just playing. Lots of greenies will play after jumps when theyre really proud of themselves. We had one that would jump everything perfectly then two strides off the landing stop dead, squeal, do aq little happy buck then continue cantering like nothing happened. He did this AFTER EVERY SINGLE JUMP. Ugh it drove me nuts, but he eventually grew out of it and became an incredible little eq horse.
Not saying that you shouldn't correct him. We have a chronic puller at our barn. What I tell people to do when they ride him is make your elbows super elastic and when he pulls do a very exaggerated flexion accompanied with a firm but discreet kick on the opposite side. It works well enough.
Dec. 27, 2009, 07:27 AM
Sounds like you need to go more forward with leg to a quiet hand or no hand for a little. Sounds like he is trying to find balance.
But flat work cannot spoken about enough. Now I am not into gadgets but I love the bungee neck stretcher . Helps stready them as you continue to apply leg to the bridle with rythm. Even with this everything is forard and bend bend bend--- Correctly withers up and out.
Dec. 27, 2009, 07:39 AM
how to get this horse to collect, "go on the bit" ?
this horse is most definatly the average tb...hate to work or behave and moody. well i cannot get him to work on the bit!! ideas on how to make this happen would be enjoyed*? !! thank you!
any help with my problems? thank you:)
What, TB's don't like to work, behave and are moody? I have to disagree with that. Many TB's are better if worked consistently and have a job. But that's JMO.
Anyway, I would agree, check saddle fit. Has his teeth been looked at lately? If there is no physcial problem then I would concentrate on trot work like Menupatdoes suggests. He may not be ready to jump if he has holes in his flatwork. Lots of circles, figure eights, single ground poles can help keep his interest.
I have been doing alot of flatwork with my 10 y.o. (still green) TB and he's finally building up his back/butt muscles to carry himself correctly. He's on the bit nicely about half of the time now but still can't stay there all of the time yet. Within another month or so, he will have the strength to. It takes time and consistent flatwork!!!
Dec. 27, 2009, 08:46 AM
It sounds like this horse is asking you to help him with his balance once in a while. If he only leans occasionally I would guess it's when he hasn't found the ideal distance or he has landed a bit disorganized and is trying to "catch" himself - kind of like when you trip, and take a big/quick step to right yourself.
Putting a horse on the bit has very, very little to do with hand at all. It comes from your leg. Specifically, your inside leg pulsing against the horse to encourage him to take contact on a soft, consistent outside hand. Routinely locking your elbow against a horse will *teach* it to pull.
Sounds like this horse needs a LOT more flatwork. Personally I would do a LOT of transitions, both between and within gaits, focusing on maintaining a soft, very consistent contact on the outside rein, until I could easily make changes every three or four steps. Start with easy stuff - regular working trot to collected sitting trot for a few strides, then back to working trot - until you can get it done EASILY, maintaining a correct position yourself. If you have to kick and pull - it isn't correct yet. Then move on to more difficult work.
As for the jumping, I would back things down a notch. Create a "course" of poles on the ground and incorporate them into your flatwork. Once you can easily "jump around" that course, start changing things up and teach him how to softly add strides and - depending on his temperment - how to go forward softly to leave them out. Have PATIENCE and refuse to give up your position to get this done... the whole point of the exercises are to teach the horse how to respond to light, invisible aids.
Once you can do that easily, make the poles into cross rais, etc.
Dec. 27, 2009, 09:39 AM
Dec. 27, 2009, 09:40 AM
Dec. 27, 2009, 10:23 AM
Continuing forward is usually the answer to any bad habit, including this one.
Locking your elbow as described might be tricky, the timing could backfire on you and create a worse problem, couldn't it?
As for the trainer problem...sounds like everyone "knows," so how much of a secret could that have been? What did your trainer say? What did your parents say?
Dec. 27, 2009, 10:35 AM
A half hour is nothing. I think we had a thread on here about maybe jumping two or three times a week, while riding five or six. I used to ride 45 min/hour just on the flat (we usually didn't jump without a trainer as my horse was tricky) five or six days a week.
Honestly, TBs are the smartest, hardest-working horses as a general rule. They generally are problems when they aren't being worked or challenged enough.
Dec. 27, 2009, 12:19 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about something a green horse does once per ride. In fact, I would be happy if a green horse ONLY leaned on me once per ride after a jump! Even well schooled horses will lean on you after a jump once in a while.
Dec. 27, 2009, 09:34 PM
im sorry, i should have added that this horse gets worked on the flat around an hour a day with SEVERAL transitions and just jumped for th firxst time since november last sunday.
You've heard the saying, practice doesn't make perfect; PERFECT practice makes perfect?
Just riding on the flat for an hour doesn't mean anything. Maybe it's great, maybe it is just exercise.
My horse does several transitions every time he goes down the long side of the ring. In fact, he does several across the short sides too. In an hour of flatwork, he probably does HUNDREDS of them. But the only ones worth a damn are the ones he does well, or the ones he does incorrectly for which he receives an immediate, effective correction.
Dec. 28, 2009, 08:52 AM
Your horse has been taught to pull back on his rider with a race career in his past (I presume?) You can not outpull a racehorse, he will win if you get into a pulling match with him. You have to teach him to not pull, to rebalance himself and not depend on pulling on you to find his balance on your hand. And to respond to your leg and hand like a riding horse instead of a racehorse.
This means flat work, and avoiding getting into pulling matches that you are going to lose. It means MANY transitions. It means reschooling the way he carries himself, and his response to your hand, and leg pressure. This is basic dressage schooling, classical horse training, not trying to outmuscle a young horse who thinks he's already doing what he has been taught to do. When he is rebalanced and carries himself and holds his own pace and balance, then you can introduce jumping as an extension to his training.
TBs tend to have good work ethics, not be "moody" or evasive to work. Collection and "on the bit" are far above the level of work that this young horse at. You should not even be thinking about these higher level demands on this horse. Read some classical training manuals, written by training masters. Step one, "free forward relaxed motion. Step two, straightness. Step three, bending, rhythm, balance. Step four, collection, on the bit. Expand this into several years of training, and a book full of descriptions of goals and how to achieve these steps. Many competitive hunters never achieve to the fourth step, nor need to. The hand is not used much in the first three steps, they are mostly giving away contact rather than taking it.
Don't get sucked into locking your arm and strong arming this horse. If your trainer is trying to sell your horse without your knowledge or desire to do so, you need to take control of this situation.
Dec. 30, 2009, 10:38 PM
Your horse has been taught to pull back on his rider with a race career in his past (I presume?) .
nope. never raced and never will:)