PDA

View Full Version : Claims regarding representing the U.S. Internationally



SevenDogs
Dec. 21, 2009, 03:33 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else find it inappropriate at best (a bit fraudulent at worst) for riders to claim that the "are going to be on the 2012 Olympic Team" (or WEG or Pan American team, etc) in their fundraising literature, websites, etc?. I'm not talking about riders who talk as "hopefuls" or show their qualifications, etc, I'm talking about making outright claims or dancing around the wording to make it sound like they already have their team gear issued and the red coat on the way.

For those of us who understand the process, it is little more than an annoyance, but we are talking about soliciting funds from people who may not realize that:

1) Those teams are picked very close to the actual event

2) While this rider has riden at the upper levels they have NOT yet completed a four star event

3) They have no international experience are unlikely to be chosen

Normally, I would wish these riders well with the very daunting task of competing at the upper levels and finding a way to pay for it, and I tend to want to support those that are new on the international scene, but this feels wrong to me and I have seen it more and more recently.

I know that fundraising is an art and you have to be positive to get people on board, but there is nothing worse than crossing the line into misinformation and frankly, dishonesty.

NeverTime
Dec. 21, 2009, 03:52 PM
Highly inappropriate. Who is doing that?

It doesn't bother me, though, for a rider to say they have been on "the" short list*, or that they've been on "the" training list, "the" developing riders list, etc.
Those lists change so frequently that I don't expect people to only brag about it when they currently (like this month and last!) are on it. Being named to one of those lists does indicate you've achieved a certain stature within the sport, so getting there temporarily helps back up the fact that you are a decent rider.

*It cracks me up when people use being long-listed as a credential. I've yet to see someone call him or herself a long-listed rider AND explain exactly what that means (ie, how non-exclusive the long list actually is).

a1ngot8r
Dec. 21, 2009, 03:57 PM
Who are you referring too? You speak about "dancing around the wording" Let us check out the websites.....

SevenDogs
Dec. 21, 2009, 03:58 PM
NeverTime: Sending you a PM because I don't want to name names on this board (although I probably should).

I also completely agree with everything else you said!

Gry2Yng
Dec. 21, 2009, 04:27 PM
Highly inappropriate. Who is doing that?

It doesn't bother me, though, for a rider to say they have been on "the" short list*, or that they've been on "the" training list, "the" developing riders list, etc.
Those lists change so frequently that I don't expect people to only brag about it when they currently (like this month and last!) are on it. Being named to one of those lists does indicate you've achieved a certain stature within the sport, so getting there temporarily helps back up the fact that you are a decent rider.

*It cracks me up when people use being long-listed as a credential. I've yet to see someone call him or herself a long-listed rider AND explain exactly what that means (ie, how non-exclusive the long list actually is).


While it *is* a long list, it is still a credential. Years ago there were only about 100 people on it. I have no idea how long the list is today or even what the criteria are, but you used to have to complete a long format **.

purplnurpl
Dec. 21, 2009, 04:33 PM
While it *is* a long list, it is still a credential. Years ago there were only about 100 people on it. I have no idea how long the list is today or even what the criteria are, but you used to have to complete a long format **.

and if you look at the BN, N, T, P, I, A, **, ***, **** stats-- completing a CCI** is somewhat exclusive. ;)

SevenDogs
Dec. 21, 2009, 04:36 PM
Yes, "long listed" is an accomplishment but I do agree with NT that without an explanation, "Long Listed for the Olympic Games" sounds like the rider was really, really close to being named to a team and may be misleading to beginning students/outsiders who don't understand the process.

That being said, I have no true objection to someone using it in their literature, as long as it is accurate, although I would tend to give more credence to the actual level, i.e. "successfully competed through the CCI** level".

I do not believe that is the standard for the "Long List" any longer, but I could be wrong.

WakeRider
Dec. 21, 2009, 04:55 PM
i believe the credentials for being on the "long list" are a CIC** or CCI**... or maybe its 2 CIC**s... i do know that per date you do not have to have completed a CCI**

Regardless its still a credential and worthy of noting for any rider.

NeverTime
Dec. 21, 2009, 09:11 PM
It's a tangent, but yes, being long-listed just means you've completed events at the ** level. Of course that's an accomplishment, but not among those who have done it. Everyone within the eventing world knows 3/4 of the "long list" will never represent the US in competition... heck, they'll never even win a three-day, they're just riders who had nice enough horses or enough perseverence to make it to the ** level.
So even though it's completely within your right to say you're long-listed, my opinion when I see that on a rider's Website is that they're trying to make themselves sound like a bigger deal than they actually are. Maybe it's not fair, but it makes me more likely to see them as a self-important BS'er and less likely to want to give money.
Or, to put it more simply, if you've got better credentials than being long-listed (ie, you've won some major events, you've been named to YR teams, whatever) list them on your Website and let the BS long-listed thing disappear like the BS college job you delete from your resume once you have enough legitimate work experience to fill it.

- NeverTime, "long-listed" rider who has never finished remotely near the ribbons at a three-day.

Foxhall
Dec. 21, 2009, 09:52 PM
Seven Dogs: Can you send me a PM too please??

stevej
Dec. 21, 2009, 10:17 PM
Can you PM me too please?

tuppysmom
Dec. 21, 2009, 10:20 PM
In theory every horse who finishes a ** has a shot at making a "short list".

In reality, It's Complicated.

Been there. Going there again should the stars align....

tulkas
Dec. 21, 2009, 10:25 PM
Like the trainer in Oregon who states in his PR that he "rode for the USET"? He rode in a developing rider session in the early 80's.

tulkas

Gry2Yng
Dec. 21, 2009, 10:25 PM
It's a tangent, but yes, being long-listed just means you've completed events at the ** level. Of course that's an accomplishment, but not among those who have done it. Everyone within the eventing world knows 3/4 of the "long list" will never represent the US in competition... heck, they'll never even win a three-day, they're just riders who had nice enough horses or enough perseverence to make it to the ** level.
So even though it's completely within your right to say you're long-listed, my opinion when I see that on a rider's Website is that they're trying to make themselves sound like a bigger deal than they actually are. Maybe it's not fair, but it makes me more likely to see them as a self-important BS'er and less likely to want to give money.
Or, to put it more simply, if you've got better credentials than being long-listed (ie, you've won some major events, you've been named to YR teams, whatever) list them on your Website and let the BS long-listed thing disappear like the BS college job you delete from your resume once you have enough legitimate work experience to fill it.

- NeverTime, "long-listed" rider who has never finished remotely near the ribbons at a three-day.

Wow! Gry2yng - "long listed" rider who has never finished remotely near the ribbons at a three day but knows how hard I worked to get there and that it is an exceptional achievement. I'm proud of it and I have respect for others who have achieved the same. I know there are plenty of riders with their pinque coats who were proud of me then and are proud of me today.

ETA: At the time, when I was in the thick of it, I think it was a credential to make note of for those who might want to support someone up and coming. You promote the best you have and then you hope to achieve more. Sometimes you achieve more, sometimes you don't. That's different than touting a credential that you don't have. It also means I might have something to offer to others in terms of experience.

E again TA: And to my employer, to whom I gave 60 hours a week, it was a nice achievement and made them feel good about the crazy schedule they allowed me in order to reach that goal.

Foxhall
Dec. 22, 2009, 12:21 AM
Is the long list even around anymore?

Looking at the USEA website, all I can find is a High Performance A and B squad lists, developing riders list, etc...

Where can you find this "long list"?

pass
Dec. 22, 2009, 03:22 AM
You used to have to complete a CCI 2*. Then they sent you a packet saying that you have made it to the long list, and you were supposed to fill out all the forms, and then send them $300??? if you wanted the selectors to keep an eye on you. I was listed, it is an accomplishment. I had also finished a CCI 3* the same year, but there was no way I was ever going to take that horse to anything more that what I had already done with him.
So for me I could not afford, nor wanted to send off money for something that would ever happen.
But I gotta say it was so terribly cool to get that packet in the mail.
One thing that bothers me the most is when people(trainers really) list that they are a 2* or 3* rider when they did not complete the event, and not for reasons such as not passing the final jog, but for getting eliminated on X-C. That is my pet peeve.

RiverBendPol
Dec. 22, 2009, 07:05 AM
Here's MY pet peeve. People who refer to having completed a CCI** as something really big, hard, important. NOWadays, a (**) is nothing more than an Intermediate level horse trial. When a (**) was a full format 3-day event, it WAS a big accomplishment. Now? Sure, it takes work and dedication but even I have 3 seasons of Intermediate under my belt.
Plus, all you have to do is compete at Bromont to be "competing internationally" or "representing the USA".

retreadeventer
Dec. 22, 2009, 07:12 AM
Wow. Bad form. VERY bad form. (OP's statement)

I too have been to a developing riders session (invited and by the "ahem" coach at the time) and at one time might have been long listed but that list doesn't exist anymore, guys. I would never consider myself anything other than a low level rider.

The developing rider lists change frequently it seems and there is an A and B from what I understand and has been previously mentioned. I too believe there is no such thing any more as a "long list".

Sometimes however the websites are done by people who are employees or hired PR people, and the actual rider may not know this is being stated this way. I am always a little forgiving about websites with top riders because I know how busy they are and how little attention they pay to the internet. I didn't PM the OP and have no idea who she is talking about, I'm just sayin'.

JFS
Dec. 22, 2009, 09:31 AM
I have seen this behavior before. A certain BNR was promoting himself as going to the Olympics. He was on the "list" but hard to successfully complete the final outings. It's been a while so I don't quite remember all the details why he didn't complete the final outings but the BNR in question did not complete Rolex so he gave it one more try so he then went on the Checkmate CCI*** and didn't complete that either. However that did not prevent him from having articles in the local papers saying that he was going to the Olympics and having $200 a plate fund raising dinners after he was OUT of the running to be on the 'team' going to the Olympics.

It's hard to believe that someone would have the balls to do something like this when he knew that there was NO possibility that he was going to the Olympics. It takes all kinds :(

Jackie

ponyjumper4
Dec. 22, 2009, 09:44 AM
I know someone that lists they were long listed and what year in some of their write-ups, credentials, etc. In actuality, the only reason that rider wasn't on the short list was because they made a judgment call after the vet check before the official short list was announced and pulled out. Given some other factors with this particular rider and that it was during the long format era, it is quite the accomplishment.

psychurmine
Dec. 22, 2009, 09:55 AM
In theory every horse who finishes a ** has a shot at making a "short list".

In reality, It's Complicated.

Been there. Going there again should the stars align....


From an outside point of view this statement seems fair--with the way our horses drop out like flies due to over work during the Capt.'s training sessions.

mbarrett
Dec. 22, 2009, 10:23 AM
Retreadeventer said, "Sometimes however the websites are done by people who are employees or hired PR people, and the actual rider may not know this is being stated this way. I am always a little forgiving about websites with top riders because I know how busy they are and how little attention they pay to the internet."

What a cop out answer! Professionals, in any field, need to know exactly how they promote themselves and what is written about themselves, especially on their own web site and promotional materials. It doesn't matter if they write their own promotional copy or hire someone else to do it. They need to review anything that goes out to the public. Everything must be accurate and true.

If they don't have 10 minutes to review their website and call or email their web master about changes and modifications to their website, they are not a very good businessman.

To say they are "too busy" to look at their website is a bunch of crap.

My husband is a professional horse trainer (different discipline than eventing) and he is very conscious of what is on his website. He is in contact with his web master frequently. He changes pictures and copy several times a year to keep his web site fresh and current. You can bet that everything on his web site is accurate and up to date.

Gry2Yng
Dec. 22, 2009, 10:24 AM
You used to have to complete a CCI 2*. Then they sent you a packet saying that you have made it to the long list, and you were supposed to fill out all the forms, and then send them $300??? ...
But I gotta say it was so terribly cool to get that packet in the mail.


I don't remember the $300 part, I surely never sent it, but that packet *was* really cool. I still have it in a folder. It had all the info about being on the team in Athens and I still have it in a file box in the basement somewhere. Makes me smile whenever I run into it. You also used to get notices every time the FEI changed the qualifications, etc. Back then the quals were changing monthly and the penalties for show jumping changed a couple of times over the course of two years. It was nice to get those little updates.

I am with the PP who hates when someone says they have gone advanced when the reality is they got eliminated the one time they tried. Tho I suppose, the fact is, they went.

NeverTime
Dec. 22, 2009, 10:46 AM
Gry2Yng -- So we disagree. That's cool. But I think it's funny you mentioned the employer thing. I think they are the only ones I'd be remotely tempted to refer to myself as a long-listed rider in front of. And for similar reasons: it makes them feel better about being flexible with your work schedule when you are desperate to drive 15 hours across the country to some event, and it makes more sense to them than "I've competed through the ** level. The ** level is..."(bosses' eyes glaze over here)



One thing that bothers me the most is when people(trainers really) list that they are a 2* or 3* rider when they did not complete the event, and not for reasons such as not passing the final jog, but for getting eliminated on X-C. That is my pet peeve.

Uh, there is a young lady I like very much, and I'm baffled and shocked that her Website lists Rolex **** 2008 among her accomplishments when, in fact, she fell XC and her horse had to be euthanized because of it. I dig this chick in all other respects, but I absolutely don't get that.

RunForIt
Dec. 22, 2009, 10:51 AM
Back in the running day, we had this guy who trained with us,... always after a marathon would talk about "yeah, I was on a 2:20 pace [meaning hours and minutes] til blah, blah, and yada, yada happened"...rarely finished (though great when he did), but always labeled himself a 2:20 marathoner! :lol: :no:

CookiePony
Dec. 22, 2009, 10:55 AM
I think the ** list is now called the "active riders" list at USEF. Can anyone confirm/ deny?

purplnurpl
Dec. 22, 2009, 10:57 AM
my friend received the 'long list' info through email last year--or maybe it was 2008?

it came with a bunch of paperwork to fill out in order to be in the running for the developing riders training sessions.

subk
Dec. 22, 2009, 11:14 AM
Nevertime, I always clarify what it means to non horsey people if I have the occasion to use the term, and quiet frankly have never felt it took much away from the accomplishment. For some reason my fellow housewives think that being one of the top 100-200 horse/rider pairs in the country at a given moment in time is pretty dang cool--silly them.

Jupes
Dec. 22, 2009, 11:28 AM
Back in the running day, we had this guy who trained with us,... always after a marathon would talk about "yeah, I was on a 2:20 pace [meaning hours and minutes] til blah, blah, and yada, yada happened"...rarely finished (though great when he did), but always labeled himself a 2:20 marathoner! :lol: :no:


Now THAT bugs me!
:lol:

tuppysmom
Dec. 22, 2009, 11:42 AM
It is a very long hard uphill climb from the "long list" to the "training camp list", to the "short list", to the "travel list", and finally to "the team".

You do begin to get the packets in the mail at ** level.

You fill out your "intent to compete" forms, and all the other forms sometime around then. We get them every year, but they may not have arrived before the *** level. I don't remember if they arrive in January or Feb.

I should pay more attention.

RunForIt
Dec. 22, 2009, 12:09 PM
It is a very long hard uphill climb from the "long list" to the "training camp list", to the "short list", to the "travel list", and finally to "the team".

You do begin to get the packets in the mail at ** level.

You fill out your "intent to compete" forms, and all the other forms sometime around then. We get them every year, but they may not have arrived before the *** level. I don't remember if they arrive in January or Feb.

I should pay more attention.

and celebrate each step of the way... as you, hubby, and talented, hard-working daughter are LEGIT! :yes: :cool:

QHEventr
Dec. 22, 2009, 01:27 PM
hmmmmmm...Where to begin....

I was "long listed" after completing the 2003 Jersey Fresh CCI** (LONG FORMAT)and then earning the individual bronze medal at the 2003 NAYRC CCI**(LONG FORMAT) and only adding one rail to out dressage score. I earned it, and worked damn hard to achieve that. I don't state being long listed on my website, but do state my FEI accomplishments.....

GRY - I too have the "long list" packet tucked away and smile everytime I pull it out! I proudly display my two NAYRC medals (Ind Bronze, team silver) as well as the lovely letter and medals that I got in the mail from the USEF. If that is all I ever achieve, I can say that I worked my tail off as a YR and achieved something most do not.....

I DO list being selected for the Developing riders squad two consecutive years on Diamond (Northlight) not only for the finish at NAYRC, but also for a competitive 2 seasons at Advanced....To me, it IS something to be proud of, and is a big accomplishment.

To me, the developing riders list says something about you.....I had to have 3 people write a letter/fill out a form saying what they thought about my horse and myselfs future potential to represent the team. I had 3 **** riders reccomending me and my horse for that.....It can be a big help as a reference being able to show potential clients/sponsors that there are top riders/trainers out there that think highly of you and your ability.....

Not sure ANY of that made sense, or came out well.......Way too tired!

Johanna

NeverTime
Dec. 22, 2009, 03:37 PM
I absolutely agree about the developing riders list, as I said in my first post. It's a major accomplishment, as is NAYRC, finishes at big events, etc. I'm just not that impressed by "long list." As Tuppysmom said, it's a very long, steep climb from the long to the short, or from the long to anywhere (ie, developing riders, training squad, NAYRC team).

Then again, when I got my long-list packet, I laughed and trashed it because it was so ludicrous to think they'd waste paper sending that to someone with results as forgettable as mine. I'm far prouder to say I jumped clean around this event or that one than to say "I'm long listed." Just a different POV on how (un)important that particular accomplishment is.

This all started with a question about the advertising people put on their Websites; if being long-listed is one of your greatest qualifications, you really haven't proven yourself as a legitimate contender yet. Especially not if you are asking for money to help fund your Olympic dreams.

Gry2Yng
Dec. 22, 2009, 06:46 PM
That's okay NeverTime. We can still hang out!:D

Probably means more to me because I set "long list" as a goal three years prior to achieving it, believing it was a long shot and the most I could ever hope for (I had only done about 4 training levels). The only horse I owned at the time was 19 and being retired to BN. It is the biggest thing I ever did or ever will do, horse-wise, so it is important to me. Probably not so to Bit of Britain or SmartPak or hordes of other eventers. Last year, my biggest achievement was to complete one novice on that very same ** horse. So it continues to mean a lot to me.

But like I said, we can still hang out.

hb
Dec. 22, 2009, 07:02 PM
I think the issue is the context. Completing a 2* and being one of the top 100/200 or so horse/rider pairs IS an accomplishment. But it doesn't mean you are just one step from riding in the Olympics. So if the person's website is worded such that it looks like they are on the level of an Olympian, then it's not correct. But that doesn't mean that being "long listed" is not an accomplishment on it's own.

Gry2Yng
Dec. 22, 2009, 07:31 PM
I think the issue is the context. Completing a 2* and being one of the top 100/200 or so horse/rider pairs IS an accomplishment. But it doesn't mean you are just one step from riding in the Olympics. So if the person's website is worded such that it looks like they are on the level of an Olympian, then it's not correct. But that doesn't mean that being "long listed" is not an accomplishment on it's own.

:D

RAyers
Dec. 22, 2009, 07:45 PM
In high school I ran a 10.94 100 meters. The World Record at the time was 9.96. In other words, I was only 1 second off World Record pace! Then again, there were somewhere between 1,000-2,000 other runners in the US who were faster than me at the time.

Reed

Meredith Clark
Dec. 22, 2009, 08:43 PM
Uh, there is a young lady I like very much, and I'm baffled and shocked that her Website lists Rolex **** 2008 among her accomplishments when, in fact, she fell XC and her horse had to be euthanized because of it. I dig this chick in all other respects, but I absolutely don't get that.

Her webpage seems way out of date, like not update since he died. It says they plan to go back to Rolex again...

LexInVA
Dec. 22, 2009, 09:03 PM
That person in question, Miss Clark, (we do not utter her name due to the universe tearing effects it creates as a by-product of upping her Google count and therefore increasing the size of her ego as well) only updates her Blog every so often (not in a few months though) but her Facebook and Twitter page seems to be where the action is from what I've been told.

Meredith Clark
Dec. 22, 2009, 09:09 PM
That person in question, Miss Clark, (we do not utter her name due to the universe tearing effects it creates as a by-product of upping her Google count and therefore increasing the size of her ego as well) only updates her Blog every so often (not in a few months though) but her Facebook and Twitter page seems to be where the action is from what I've been told.

aaah.. I see. I obviously don't spend as much time on Facebook and/or Twitter as I should!

I was going off of her "about me" section on her webpage.

Funny.. her farm is right down the street from where I used to board and my sister still does and I never heard a thing about her.

JER
Dec. 22, 2009, 09:16 PM
That person in question, Miss Clark, (we do not utter her name due to the universe tearing effects it creates as a by-product of upping her Google count and therefore increasing the size of her ego as well)...

I think she meant the other rider whose horse was fatally injured at Rolex 2008.

(If not -- and I'm not about to do the legwork and expose my brain to the linguistic stylings of the person referenced above -- that means there are two of them out there.)

Meredith Clark
Dec. 22, 2009, 09:23 PM
I think she meant the other rider whose horse was fatally injured at Rolex 2008.

(If not -- and I'm not about to do the legwork and expose my brain to the linguistic stylings of the person referenced above -- that means there are two of them out there.)


right. I was talking about the women from PA.

stinkymarge
Dec. 22, 2009, 10:36 PM
So if the list changes frequently …….then does that mean we have no real defined team? If this person has qualified and made it to a CCI **** and is on the developing rider list then IMHO that could constitute that they really have a good chance of making the games. All the riders on the “potential” team do fundraisers, how else would they fund their dream.

So help me understand why you are making this statement, it sounds like you may have ulterior motives. :no: That's sad! Maybe you should go out there and actually ride even at Novice, and stop trying to be a critic from the sidelines. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

NeverTime
Dec. 23, 2009, 07:49 AM
I think the issue is the context. Completing a 2* and being one of the top 100/200 or so horse/rider pairs IS an accomplishment. But it doesn't mean you are just one step from riding in the Olympics. So if the person's website is worded such that it looks like they are on the level of an Olympian, then it's not correct. But that doesn't mean that being "long listed" is not an accomplishment on it's own.

Precisely!!! :yes: Thank you for saying it much better than I've been able to!

findeight
Dec. 23, 2009, 09:37 AM
IME, those who actually have represented the USA in International competition rarely bring it up-oh, it is on their farm literature...but it says they DID and names the competitions. In person, it is not the first thing they say and they rarely bring it up themselves. Really.

Claiming they WILL represent the USA or are on this or that list for something in a few years??? Sort of seems like they really don't have anything else to promote themselves with. Know what I am saying? They have not done that much? But they can charge more as if they had;).

stinkymarge
Dec. 23, 2009, 10:37 AM
I had a really hard time reading your reply, I wouldnt quit your day job, Welcome to Walmart....................WOW.....:lol:




IME, those who actually have represented the USA in International competition rarely bring it up-oh, it is on their farm literature...but it says they DID and names the competitions. In person, it is not the first thing they say and they rarely bring it up themselves. Really.

Claiming they WILL represent the USA or are on this or that list for something in a few years??? Sort of seems like they really don't have anything else to promote themselves with. Know what I am saying? They have not done that much? But they can charge more as if they had;).

subk
Dec. 23, 2009, 11:13 AM
I had a really hard time reading your reply, I wouldnt quit your day job, Welcome to Walmart....................WOW.....:lol:
Yeah and I read your reply and was trying to understand how YOU could or could not quit HER job...then I realized I should go on troll alert.

The team is not picked from the developing riders list. It's picked from the short list, which is picked from the long list. The developing riders list is an auxillery list that has a bunch a names most people have never heard of and most people never will. You don't have anyone who has ever represented the US on that list. (The majority of riders who end up selected for a Team will have already been on a Team.) http://useventing.com/competitions.php?id=1780

Every once in a while a rider, maybe two joins all the others who have tons of experience competing internationally and for the US. Most of the riders on the developing list will be on the list for a year or two and disappear or linger on and off for a long time but only a few will crack through the glass ceiling.

So no, I would not say someone on the developing riders list has "a really good chance of making the team." They have a better chance than 99.5% of all other event riders, but the individual odds are still quite small. Especially if your on the list with Boyd Martin!

But since the current trend is to put kids on the list who have parents with deep pockets, using the list as fund raising tool wasn't in the master plan. CMP is mainly interested in people that don't need to fundraise.

stinkymarge
Dec. 23, 2009, 09:16 PM
So if the developing rider list means nothing (according to you), then maybe we shouldn’t have it! The talent scouts need to lose their jobs. Furthermore, for the record this thread was not originally posted regarding some "spoiled kid" the original poster had ill intentions!:no: Hence the reason they have not reposted, they know who they are!

SevenDogs
Dec. 23, 2009, 09:27 PM
Um... no, the OP hasn't reposted because:

1) I made my point in my previous posts;

2) I have been interested in the discussion among the "legit" posters

3) AND (like subk so deftly mentioned) I smell a troll.

So, Happy Holidays, Stinkymarge! For what it's worth, your name did crack me up.

Gry2Yng
Dec. 23, 2009, 11:31 PM
Gosh, I am so thick. All this goes over my head. Someone PM me and explain what just happened. I have been out all day riding my horses, soaking their feet and drinking with eventing buddies.

SevenDogs
Dec. 23, 2009, 11:43 PM
I don't think anything has happenened other than we were having an intelligent conversation when a troll decided to join in, for whatever reason.

Gry2Yng
Dec. 23, 2009, 11:59 PM
Okay. I will keep soaking and drinking. Seems to be something I do well.

Blackeventer
Dec. 24, 2009, 07:15 AM
Yeah and I read your reply and was trying to understand how YOU could or could not quit HER job...then I realized I should go on troll alert.

The team is not picked from the developing riders list. It's picked from the short list, which is picked from the long list. The developing riders list is an auxillery list that has a bunch a names most people have never heard of and most people never will. You don't have anyone who has ever represented the US on that list. (The majority of riders who end up selected for a Team will have already been on a Team.) http://useventing.com/competitions.php?id=1780

Every once in a while a rider, maybe two joins all the others who have tons of experience competing internationally and for the US. Most of the riders on the developing list will be on the list for a year or two and disappear or linger on and off for a long time but only a few will crack through the glass ceiling.

So no, I would not say someone on the developing riders list has "a really good chance of making the team." They have a better chance than 99.5% of all other event riders, but the individual odds are still quite small. Especially if your on the list with Boyd Martin!

But since the current trend is to put kids on the list who have parents with deep pockets, using the list as fund raising tool wasn't in the master plan. CMP is mainly interested in people that don't need to fundraise.

I do hope that my pennyless, hardworking (and talented ;)) child who happens to be on the DR can proves this wrong !:(;):no:

eventingfan
Dec. 24, 2009, 07:42 AM
Ditto, Blackeventer!!

stinkymarge
Dec. 24, 2009, 09:47 AM
Why don’t you do us all a favor and tell us who you are referring to? Let’s put this thing to bed....... Feel free to PM me if you don’t want everyone to know...........

PS- I knew you would like my name, hence the reason I used it! I figured you would appreciate it.......

Merry Christmas!




I don't think anything has happenened other than we were having an intelligent conversation when a troll decided to join in, for whatever reason.

stinkymarge
Dec. 24, 2009, 09:53 AM
No worries, Sevendogs has it out for "someone" in particular and it’s not your daughter! She would rather stir the pot in the forum.

I suggest she just move on and let others live their dream or take meds so we can all stand to be around her.:yes:





I do hope that my pennyless, hardworking (and talented ;)) child who happens to be on the DR can proves this wrong !:(;):no:

subk
Dec. 24, 2009, 12:19 PM
I do hope that my pennyless, hardworking (and talented ;)) child who happens to be on the DR can proves this wrong !:(;):no:
Quite frankly so do the rest of us. But that doesn't change the trend of the last few years that the list has become filled with more and more children and young adults without much experience, but with parents with very deep pockets. Nor does it change the fact that if you look at the lists of the past many of those riders still ride in relative obscurity. That's the reality, not a criticism of your child.


So if the developing rider list means nothing (according to you), then maybe we shouldn’t have it! The talent scouts need to lose their jobs.
Umm...no that wouldn't be what I said at all--just that history has shown that making the list is not in anyway a guaranteed ticket to be on a Team. But thanks for showing everyone how addled you must be that you don't seem to be able to read for comprehension.

LexInVA
Dec. 24, 2009, 02:43 PM
I think there's something in the water...

tuppysmom
Dec. 24, 2009, 03:25 PM
Well, it is an acomplishement to make the DR list. I would never say never about making a team from that vantage point. It could happen................

At least if you are on the list the selectors will know your name.

I have never had the experience of having deep pockets, but DD did make that list 2 times and the "B" list once.

Good Intentions
Dec. 30, 2009, 04:50 AM
Sevendogs and Sceptics-

I would say that from my point of view, being an Olympic hopeful and someone who fundraises for the future, these fundraising tactics are very much a part of being successful. You do not have to be "wealthy" to be selected for the US Team. Their are several people on the "team" who fundraise and simply only fundraise to make it to their next competition. In fact, those specifc people on the team (and it is half of the current A and B list) suggest that anyone looking to someday make the "team" or strive for their dream should fundraise a minimum of one day a week, if they do not have deep pockets. It is unfair to JUDGE the people who are simply trying to achieve a lifelong dream of riding in the Olympics, WEG, or Pan Am games. In fact that is what this country is about...fulfilling dreams!
I must say that it was disheartening to read the negative thoughts put across this forum. So many people manage to cope with life based on their "so called dreams" and really, unless you know this person....on a personal level how can you judge them? And if you do know them personally.....why would you ever want to post something so critical and harsh.
How do you know that they have NO shot of making the US Team. I know for a fact that they do. If your a good rider and your producing results at the 3 and 4 star level you will be put on the team.
The fact that this was mentioned in such a negative and slanderous way really makes me wonder why these forum's are even aloud.
Several comments have been made about high profile riders and one thing that everyone who makes negative comments has in common is that they have some very personal issues within themselves, alot of time on their hands, and frankly must be completely unhappy.
I recently did a fundraiser and the person helping me is one of my biggest fans. One of my best friends and partly because of her, I have learned that I am a great rider and I do deserve to ride for our country.
In this fundraiser email, she was a bit too enthusicastic about what she produced for the fundraiser. It was with all great and wonderful intentions, but it did need to be revised to represent accurate information.
That doesn't mean she or I are awful people! It just needed to be reviewed and revised before sending it out. The best part about this email, is that it was only intended to be sent to my distribution list. A small group of people who have along the way been very supportitive and as enthusicastic about my future.
So I just say to everyone out their......the easy way out of looking at things is by attacking and slandering those who only want to fulfill a dream someday. And maybe that dream won't ever be fulfilled.....or maybe it will, but the humble and kind thing to do is to wish them well and be happy for their success.

gully's pilot
Dec. 30, 2009, 07:11 AM
You may have a very legitimate shot at making the Team, but until you have made it you shouldn't imply, in fundraising material or anywhere else, that you have.

It's essentially dishonest, and that doesn't sit well with the selection committee.

Gry2Yng
Dec. 30, 2009, 10:16 AM
Good Intentions - if you hope to make a team, you are going to need to grow a thicker skin or stop reading boards. Public figures expose themselves to public comment. Best of luck to you.

hb
Dec. 30, 2009, 01:10 PM
Sevendogs and Sceptics-

How do you know that they have NO shot of making the US Team. I know for a fact that they do. If your a good rider and your producing results at the 3 and 4 star level you will be put on the team.

In this fundraiser email, she was a bit too enthusicastic about what she produced for the fundraiser. It was with all great and wonderful intentions, but it did need to be revised to represent accurate information.
That doesn't mean she or I are awful people! It just needed to be reviewed and revised before sending it out.

It's not about whether the person has a chance or NO chance of making the team. The negativity is in regard to the person insinuating that they are ALREADY ON the team when they are NOT, and when there are several more steps between where the person is now and being on the team.

And this is a website that people are discussing, not a draft of an e-mail. The website has been proofed and up for some time, it isn't one person being overly enthusiastic in a DRAFT of an e-mail.

blackwly
Dec. 30, 2009, 01:14 PM
ok, what is this website? Will someone PM me?

Good Intentions
Dec. 30, 2009, 06:57 PM
I agree! You cannot make implications that are not true....however you can say you have a goal of going to the Olympics when you do. And you can put that on your website.
I'm not sure were talking about the same website, and I do understand that some people may have never ridden above the 2* and think they are going to be selected for the "team" this year. Clearly that is not the case. I agree that would be dishonest.
I know your right about having a thicker skin, but when you actually find out it was one of your "so called friends" that made the original post, it kinda digs right through that thick skin.
Thanks for the great advice.....I'm glad most people have the same idea as I do.
:):)

Gry2Yng
Dec. 30, 2009, 07:43 PM
I know your right about having a thicker skin, but when you actually find out it was one of your "so called friends" that made the original post, it kinda digs right through that thick skin.

:):)

I feel for ya. Gonna have to grow it REAL thick. Think "picking up another size on shirts and britches" thick. Or should I say "toughen up cupcake". ;) (Please, please don't read that as my being mean.)

Good Intentions
Dec. 30, 2009, 09:04 PM
HAHA! No worries...I have a sense of humor:lol:

SevenDogs
Dec. 30, 2009, 11:21 PM
case. I agree that would be dishonest.
I know your right about having a thicker skin, but when you actually find out it was one of your "so called friends" that made the original post, it kinda digs right through that thick skin.


Good Intentions: As the OP, I must tell you that I think you and some of the other "alters" created for this thread are on the wrong path and I would hate for you to wrongly accuse or end friendships over this thread.

So, let me clarify and hopefully put some minds at ease: I do not personally know the owner of the website that triggered my original post. I have no ties to them (I am not even in the same area). I have not received any e-mails about this rider.

I decided early in this thread that I would not be naming names. This is NOT the only rider who has misrepresented themselves, and frankly, I decided this would be a more productive conversation without specific references (sorry to everyone who pm'd and did not get a response). I am most certainly not "out to get" anyone.

I stated very clearly in the OP that I think it is perfectly acceptable to discuss goals, dreams, hopes, aspirations and also to show milestones along the way that demonstrate real ability and intent (successfully completed three/four star competitions, named to winter training lists, etc.). This is a legitimate fundraising technique, but you can be positive and energetic without being misleading. I just don't find it acceptable to state, imply or otherwise mislead donors into thinking a rider *is going* to the Olympics (or WEG or PanAmerican Games or whatever big event is coming up) when the road is long, the team slots are few, and there are significant holes in the resume that need to be plugged before team consideration is truly a reality.

I like nothing more than to see the underdog succeed and I will donate to them over all the rest everytime, as long as they are honest in their quest. Accountability and truth is what the OP was about.

Good Intentions
Dec. 31, 2009, 12:16 AM
I only wish your recent post would have been your OP....because harsh words can't ever be taken back once said.
I know that not everyone was referring to this specific website....but unfortunantly I know who was.

PhoenixFarm
Dec. 31, 2009, 01:41 AM
Resume padding is long, time honored tradition in the horse world, :winkgrin::lol::eek:.

I think it came to a head in dressage land about a decade and a half ago when they used to hold a small tour competition called the "Olympic Festival". Teams from various regions were complied based on scores and availability and people went and competed on their own dime. It had NOTHING to do with the actual Olympics or making an international team, but the number of people dropping the word "Festival" from their CV when recounting their trip reached epic proportions, LOL.

Look, it's simple. Write whatever you like about your dreams and aspirations, your desires and hopes, your plans and goals. But you do yourself, your donors, and your sport a huge disservice if you are not 100% honest with potential sponsors about how difficult it is to make an international team. I won't even dignify the notion of lying about actually making a team with a response, that should go without saying. Every time a sponsor feels lied to or misled (whether they gave you $20 or $20,000) that's a sponsor who walks away from you and eventing forever and never comes back.

So point out how slim the chances are--heck, make THAT a marketing point--chances are so slim that every little bit of $$ help gives you that teeny tiny edge. And provide lots of alternative goals that constitute a win for you and your potential sponsor. Because honestly, it's damn near impossible to make a team. If it were me, and it's not, I wouldn't be touting Olympics and Worlds, I'd be touting all the local/national exposure you can bring to the table. And deliver on that. THAT is what will get you, and keep, long term sponsors.

Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy.

Oh and the bit about talent and determination and one horse wonders having the same shot as deep pocket folks or those that already have their coats. That's so . . . quaint. Lovely, but quaint. You want to know what the team experience is really about? Take aside one of the many, many people who have been on the cusp, but not quite gotten there, and find out how they and their horses were treated by the powers that be. It ain't International Velvet kids. It's a whole different ballgame.

Best of luck to all the dreamers and hopefuls. I'm cynical, but always ready to be proved wrong!:yes::sadsmile:

canterlope
Dec. 31, 2009, 04:22 AM
I have nothing of use to add to this thread other than to say:

your and you're are not interchangeable

and

there, their, and they're are also not interchangeable.

wolfmare
Dec. 31, 2009, 06:42 AM
aloud/allowed should be included as not being interchangeable.
That isn't being snotty, it is however, really important to use the language properly whern needing to make a point. All those words glared out at me, and would affect any decision I might make to support someone, as attention to detail is important to me. Spell check doesn't get intent.
I have a young daughter who has, like so many, had Olympic dreams. I think it is what is put out in any sport as a pinnicle. Funding that kind of dream takes tons of networking and business sense. The real joy though is in each ride, the journey, not the destination. I agree with PF, in my humble opinion, best to focus on achievments and what you can give to sponsers as far as media coverage because of those acomplishments than on dreams when seeking sponsers.
Then there is that whole flat out lying thing.......
I have no idea who was actually being referred to by the OP, and it doesn't really matter. I have been up all night and I'm tired, sorry if I sound mentally off. Tired is one excuse, anyway.

wolfmare
Dec. 31, 2009, 06:43 AM
Whern? I should take my own advice and proof read,
Jeesh

snoopy
Dec. 31, 2009, 07:49 AM
Oh and the bit about talent and determination and one horse wonders having the same shot as deep pocket folks or those that already have their coats. That's so . . . quaint. Lovely, but quaint. You want to know what the team experience is really about? Take aside one of the many, many people who have been on the cusp, but not quite gotten there, and find out how they and their horses were treated by the powers that be. It ain't International Velvet kids. It's a whole different ballgame.
:



:yes:

Ajierene
Dec. 31, 2009, 08:12 AM
I have nothing of use to add to this thread other than to say:

your and you're are not interchangeable

and

there, their, and they're are also not interchangeable.


aloud/allowed should be included as not being interchangeable.

So, I was reading a book last night and the sentence was : Aloud, he said, "blah blah." My first thought was 'it is allowed, not aloud!' then I realized that the book was correct and COTH is ruining my English reading and comprehension skills.


I think it is what is put out in any sport as a pinnicle.

Since you put it out there.....pinnacle. Pinnicle is not a word.


On the original subject. There is a distinct difference in saying you went somewhere (say Rolex) when you completed the event compared to being eliminated at any stage. I give a lot of credit to one eventer that went to the Olympics for a different country (his home land). He was honest about almost not making it due to some political reasons and honest about falling off and how he was off his game and intimidated. He had several paragraphs on his website about his Olympic adventures. There was no quick 'I went to the Olympics'. It was a long and drawn out 'I went to the Olympics and bombed.' That is not something a lot of professionals like to admit.

yellow rose eventing
Dec. 31, 2009, 08:27 AM
[QUOTE=Good Intentions;4587415]In fact, those specifc people on the team (and it is half of the current A and B list) suggest that anyone looking to someday make the "team" or strive for their dream should fundraise a minimum of one day a week,QUOTE]

WOW! people really fundraise 1day/wk to pay for their competition expenses? What sort of fundraising ... my clients would go broke ...

I think I have a better shot at working for my $$... ya I'll stick with that... eliminates the "maybe" factor about whether or not I'm going to be able to pay for my spring 3 and 4 stars...

S A McKee
Dec. 31, 2009, 10:12 AM
I agree! You cannot make implications that are not true....however you can say you have a goal of going to the Olympics when you do. And you can put that on your website.
I'm not sure were talking about the same website, and I do understand that some people may have never ridden above the 2* and think they are going to be selected for the "team" this year. Clearly that is not the case. I agree that would be dishonest.
I know your right about having a thicker skin, but when you actually find out it was one of your "so called friends" that made the original post, it kinda digs right through that thick skin.
Thanks for the great advice.....I'm glad most people have the same idea as I do.
:):)

Misleading a potential sponsor is unethical.period.

As far as the developing rider list I don't think it's been published yet but nobody should be saying they are on that list unless they really are.

For WEG there is a published criteria that includes a list of 3/ 4 star events that took place in 2009 and a small number of events in 2010. You have to compete in one of those events to be eligible for selection.
So unless you competed in an approved event in 2009 or are planning on going to:
Rolex Kentucky CCI**** USA April 22-25, 2010
Badminton CCI**** GBR April 30- May 3, 2010
Jersey Fresh CCI*** USA May 5-9, 2010
Saumur CCI*** FRA May 20-23, 2010
Don't say you have a chance to make the team. You may be taking funds away from riders whoo have a real chance to make the team in a time when donation money may be in short supply.

If I saw a website that asked for donations based on a 'goal' of representing the US and the person begging had no record at the 3 or 4 star level I'd move on. Because they simply will not have a chance of making the team at the present time and I'd rather support someone who has a realistic chance. I'd 'like' to do a lot of things but I'd be embarassed to solicit for a 'dream'.

tuppysmom
Dec. 31, 2009, 10:37 AM
International Velvet it isn't, but it has all the components of a best seller..

There is: Wonder, excitment, drama, agony, all wrapped up in panic!


Your and you're are also not interchangable. And these kids have degrees in what?

LLDM
Dec. 31, 2009, 10:51 AM
Once again SCFarm finally feels compelled to drag out her soapbox and lumber up onto it. For those who have heard this all before, you are welcome to skip right on over this.

Anyone who is asking for other people's money, time, effort and/or goodwill AND has zero intention of giving anything in return for it really needs to deal with the fact that not everyone is going to agree that the solicitor is as deserving as she/he thinks. Lying, fibbing, misleading, padding or in any other way overstating one's case is suicidal for any and all fund raising efforts. No matter how "deserving" (or not) they may be.

Whining when questioned, especially when one has not been identified in particular, is highly counter productive.

There will always be a better cause than yours. There are staving horses. Heck, there are starving children. Fund raising with that thought in mind is more likely to produce a tone more appealing to the type of folks who donate generously and often as a matter of course.

Fund raising is not a hobby. Educating oneself about the ideals and mechanics will go a long way in producing effective results. And hopefully, enable one to effectively "return the favor" down the road when one is in a position to do so.

/end soapbox

SCFarm

Ajierene
Dec. 31, 2009, 11:43 AM
Anyone who is asking for other people's money, time, effort and/or goodwill AND has zero intention of giving anything in return for it really needs to deal with the fact that not everyone is going to agree that the solicitor is as deserving as she/he thinks. Lying, fibbing, misleading, padding or in any other way overstating one's case is suicidal for any and all fund raising efforts. No matter how "deserving" (or not) they may be.

Whenever these donation threads come up, I always think of my friend who races spec Miatas and is looking to do so 'for a living' one day. He is getting very close.

He also asks for sponsorships. He has a whole powerpoint presentation and a 'what you get for your money' price list. For say $50 for the year, you get a signed picture and a patch. For $500/year you get your logo on the car and a signed picture of the victory lap, signed and framed. For say $1000/year you get a personal appearance of my friend and his car, at your store/place of business, plus a bigger logo on the car that can be definitely seen in the victory lap picture you also get.

While logos are not practical in the horse showing/eventing business, I wonder how many riders actually give something back to their sponsor - like a free clinic, lesson, day with the pony clubbers or something.

One of the reasons he is so close to being able to race for a living is a clear business plan, clear goals, and ability to clearly tell sponsors what they get for their money and where their money goes.

Sandman
Dec. 31, 2009, 12:42 PM
Something I saw online about a fundraising raffle popped into my mind when I started reading this thread. The page said the rider (who is winning at the ** level with a current horse and has completed at ***/retired at **** with a previous horse) "is on her way to the Olympics to represent the US equestrian team." That might have just been an enthusiastic way of saying "we've got faith in her," but the phrasing is misleading.
HOWEVER, when I checked back today before posting this.... the site has been updated and no longer says that. Now it says something she didn't repeat those claims anywhere else on her Webpage, including all the more appropriate about "has the goal of representing the USET."
Good for her. Maybe she saw this discussion or maybe she was just updating her site, but she fixed something that was questionable. Probably was a simple, overenthusiastic mistake maybe made by a friend, student or family member helping out, but anything that goes on your site has your implicit endorsement, so ultimately its your responsibility, as the rider, to make sure you really do stand behind anything and everything posted there.

Also: I'm going along with this no-naming-names in this discussion but I think it's kind of stupid. we're not talking about tackroom gossip, we're talking about things riders put on their websites, into fliers, etc. I don't see why the secrecy is needed in instances like these, where the info is stuff the riders have put out there themselves for public consumption.

SevenDogs
Dec. 31, 2009, 01:11 PM
Good for this rider for fixing their website! Hopefully, this thread has started some discussion and thinking about how upper level riders can accurately portray themselves and still raise needed funds.

I decided not to name names for the reasons I described above. Even by taking the high road, I was accused of being "out to get someone" by several posters, as a bit of paranoia ensued. I agree that websites, literature, etc. are for public display and I would have been within reason to release names --I just chose not to. If someone else feels differently, then they should feel free to reference specifics.

Carol Ames
Dec. 31, 2009, 01:22 PM
unfortunately, itis done fairly often, and not only in eventing; even in Germany:eek: Thee is a trainer, now in this country who, claims to have been an alternate on the German
Olympic team; ABSOLUTELY NOT1:mad:AS a matter of fact at his one and only attempt at an American event, he was eliminated after dressage; yet still claims to have completed but . his employers just want the "a name"which would bring students to the college; whether they learned any5hing of value was not important; :no:-these are the type of people who COULD sell the Brooklyn bridge:lol: I find it very disturbing when the horses have "problems" and are blamed and knocked around or, "schooled "by the faker:sadsmile: If you look around a the "popular " trainers, clinicians" of the last 25 years; pardon the profiling:lol: they are male, speak with an accent and claim all manner of accomplishments

lstevenson
Dec. 31, 2009, 02:34 PM
Thee is a trainer, now in this country who, claims to have been an alternate on the German
Olympic team; ABSOLUTELY NOT1:mad:AS a matter of fact at his one and only attempt at an American event, he was eliminated after dressage; yet still claims to have completed but . his employers just want the "a name"which would bring students to the college; whether they learned any5hing of value was not important; :no:-these are the type of people who COULD sell the Brooklyn bridge:lol:



Ha! :lol: I believe I know exactly who you are talking about. Are his initials JG?

I can't believe so many people fall for an accent and don't notice that they don't have any qualifacations whatsoever.

There is a new guy claiming to be from Germany in my area who is doing the same thing. Telling people he rode at Advanced eventing, and people believe him w/o question. I checked into it...he's done nothing. :lol:

JER
Dec. 31, 2009, 03:13 PM
So where does an up-and-comer look for a road map on how to approach sponsors or fundraise?

I briefly searched at USEF and USEA and didn't find any advice or guidelines to members/riders looking for sponsors. I realize it's not the purview of these organizations to do so.

However, especially with an 'educational' organization like the USEA, it might be very useful to provide information or advice or guidelines on how to gain sponsorship or raise funds. (If this information is there already, could someone point me to it?) Many of the sponsor-seekers are in the under-30 set or YRs and they aren't likely to have education or experience in these arenas.

Sponsorship and funding is an important part of UL eventing. To some extent, a fresh-out-of-YRs rider is being thrown in the deep end, much in the way a recent vet school grad will get out in the real world and realize that a couple of courses in running a small business would have helped them more than that poultry lab they had to take.

A workshop on sponsorship would be a useful thing for YRs or for riders on the Developing Lists. A page of guidelines or tips on the USEA site would also be useful. Any professional fund raiser or grant writer will tell you there's a skill to the work that they do, it's not just winging it and hoping for the best.

It's not like it's the easiest thing to explain eventing and why it matters to the general public. My own family is sports-mad but resolutely un-horsey. I sent them some video of my mare competing at Intermediate and got back a range of responses like 'How do you win in this sport?' to 'Does your horse have to be smart to do this?'. 'CCI****' and 'developing rider' and 'winter training list' and 'USEF' mean nothing to the general public but the general public does understand the word 'Olympics.'

Getting your point across is not easy under these circumstances. The up-and-comers could probably use a little help.

lstevenson
Dec. 31, 2009, 03:24 PM
WOW! people really fundraise 1day/wk to pay for their competition expenses? What sort of fundraising ... my clients would go broke ...

I think I have a better shot at working for my $$... ya I'll stick with that... eliminates the "maybe" factor about whether or not I'm going to be able to pay for my spring 3 and 4 stars...



I'm with you yellow rose, it was far more productive for me to get another job and work for the $$ instead of spending that time fundraising. Although maybe that's because I wasn't very good at fundraising...:uhoh:

LLDM
Dec. 31, 2009, 08:01 PM
So where does an up-and-comer look for a road map on how to approach sponsors or fundraise?


Google. And you of all people should know that! :winkgrin:

I googled: 'professional fundraising sponsorship' and the 9th entry was this link: Factsheet Professional Fundraising (http://www.musicnetwork.ie/myc/cms/pages/development/factsheet_profession.php) It is a great overview in outline format, 90% of which is directly applicable to a rider looking for funds.

It points out, among other very valuable tips, that over 75% of funds come from individuals and less than 6% comes from corporations.

It also points out that one needs to research their likeliest donors and appeal specifically to them in a very detailed manner. They must have a detailed plan and be very organized. And says that one should understand what, exactly, sponsorship is.

This is not rocket science, but it does take a bit of due diligence.

Personally, I worry sloppy fundraising efforts mean sloppiness in other aspects of horsemanship, training and preparation. But that just might be me.

SCFarm

JER
Dec. 31, 2009, 08:23 PM
Google. And you of all people should know that! :winkgrin:

I love you. I really do.

But I was aiming for the next level of specificity beyond general fundraising. My post was about how to seek sponsorship and fund raise specifically for eventing.

You can go to your Google and do a by-the-book perfect sponsorship letter and still get it all wrong in terms of what you say about the sport of eventing and your relationship to it. This is what I was saying the USEA or YR or Area groups could help with.

:)

Good Intentions
Dec. 31, 2009, 08:37 PM
Sandman...that is the website myself and Sevendogs were referring to.....and that was why I posted my OP. Because the friend that sent out the fundraising email was super excited and created an additional website that did not get proofed. Not a good thing because it wasn't accurate.....and it was revised as soon as it was brought to my attention.
However, my point was that everyone that was sent the email, were direct friends of mine, (so I thought), and if you did recieve it then you actually know me, and you know I'm not someone who claims things that are not true. It was simply a mistake and the lesson was to make sure things are proofed before sent out.
So the webpage was revised because it needed to be, not because of Sevendogs OP.
I know everyone has their opinion, this is a public forum and some just want to put others down for the heck of it....however, I was simply referring to this specific situation because instead of starting a post on the COTH forum, why didn't this person just shoot me an email stating their concerns? Because it was the same concern I had, and was exactly why the website was changed immediately.

I think I will concentrate on riding and training and possibly try to help the sport of eventing in anyway I can, as well as everything else in my life.

Good luck to all of you loyal COTH members and I hope none of you ever make a mistake and people rip you a part, because it doesn't feel very good. Especially when you find out who the people are.

These messages might seem anonymous.....but there not as anonymous as you might think.

RAyers
Dec. 31, 2009, 09:35 PM
Good Intentions, maybe I am in a bit of overload or I am tired of editing/reviewing work by foreign scientists but please remember this:

Punctuation and spelling are HUGE indicators of one's ability to effectively communicate and represent oneself to the public. Your posts, while relevant, contain enough mistakes to lead me to think that you are not the best representative of your business/friend.

When one represents anything at a high level they should be prepared to be scrutinized at the highest level. Thus, you must present yourself as a professional at more than just riding.

Reed

Good Intentions
Dec. 31, 2009, 09:46 PM
this is blog....not a formal letter

SevenDogs
Dec. 31, 2009, 09:47 PM
Good Intentions: At the risk of repeating myself, I have purposely kept this conversation general in nature. I think it is an important topic and, as many others have said, this is not an issue about a single rider. There are many riders and trainers (past and present) that could be the topic of this thread. That is why I chose not to referenced any specific websites or riders.

If you had an issue that you have now fixed, that's great! Good for you for taking responsibility for the accuracy of your website.

I probably shouldn't worry about this, but it does bother me that you may wrongfully accuse someone or end a friendship because of you are convinced that they started this thread. At the end of the day, I can only tell you that I do not personally know the rider on the website that was the catalyst for my OP and I have not received any e-mails relating to fundraising.

I continue to think this is an important topic worth discussing, particularly as upper level riders are encouraged to raise funds in the electronic age. That was my motivation for starting this thread.

Wishing you and everyone else the best for 2010!

LLDM
Dec. 31, 2009, 10:29 PM
Why is it that this generation seems so unable to handle any type of criticism? Even of the constructive variety? Most good, solid lessons are also hard - that is how people learn. It doesn't have to feel good. It just has to be effective.



I love you. I really do.

But I was aiming for the next level of specificity beyond general fundraising. My post was about how to seek sponsorship and fund raise specifically for eventing.

You can go to your Google and do a by-the-book perfect sponsorship letter and still get it all wrong in terms of what you say about the sport of eventing and your relationship to it. This is what I was saying the USEA or YR or Area groups could help with.

:)

I understand that. Really I do. But don't they need to get the basics down first? Really, most don't seem to get it at all, even some of our best upper level riders! Giving them specifics with no context won't be helpful either.

Granted, there isn't much eventing specific help for this type of thing anyway, as you suggest. But I am not really sure there exists any real depth on the subject now. Seems all eventing fundraising and sponsorship is rather, um, scattered.

Some riders have managed to cobble together a decent support system, but mostly it's just based on Owners. Some are better than others on the Care and Feeding of Owners. But the current model is not very robust or stable.

SCFarm

Albion
Dec. 31, 2009, 10:51 PM
this is blog....not a formal letter

:lol:

As someone who wrote for (and got well paid for!) a blog, this is (a) not a blog and (b) anyone trying to present a professional image - including a lot of blogs - would not let an unproofed post out.

hb
Jan. 1, 2010, 12:10 AM
Good Intentions, believe it or not, there may be some OTHER rider with inaccurate claims on their website. This might not be about you!

Slander
Jan. 1, 2010, 10:25 AM
SevenDogs,

Be very careful what you post on the web! Your original post contained slanderous statements. Just stop while you are ahead, please!



Good Intentions: At the risk of repeating myself, I have purposely kept this conversation general in nature. I think it is an important topic and, as many others have said, this is not an issue about a single rider. There are many riders and trainers (past and present) that could be the topic of this thread. That is why I chose not to referenced any specific websites or riders.

If you had an issue that you have now fixed, that's great! Good for you for taking responsibility for the accuracy of your website.

I probably shouldn't worry about this, but it does bother me that you may wrongfully accuse someone or end a friendship because of you are convinced that they started this thread. At the end of the day, I can only tell you that I do not personally know the rider on the website that was the catalyst for my OP and I have not received any e-mails relating to fundraising.

I continue to think this is an important topic worth discussing, particularly as upper level riders are encouraged to raise funds in the electronic age. That was my motivation for starting this thread.

Wishing you and everyone else the best for 2010!

LAZ
Jan. 1, 2010, 10:38 AM
SevenDogs,

Be very careful what you post on the web! Your original post contained slanderous statements. Just stop while you are ahead, please!

Dear Slander--

I believe you need to review your laws regarding slander. I have no idea who Seven Dogs was talking about, and indeed, can think of at least a dozen websites in various professions/sports that are misleading.

This thread seems to have hit very close to the bone for a few posters--which can be a good cause for personal and professional growth. Use it as such.

JER
Jan. 1, 2010, 11:19 AM
SevenDogs,

Be very careful what you post on the web! Your original post contained slanderous statements. Just stop while you are ahead, please!

Slander, you might have to change your name.

Slander refers to spoken defamatory statements. Published or written defamatory statements are called libel.

Considering SevenDogs didn't mention names or quote any text from the website directly and spoke in very general terms that could apply to a large number of Olympic aspirants, you'd have a tough time getting your case past the ROFLMAO stage.

S A McKee
Jan. 1, 2010, 12:20 PM
SevenDogs,

Be very careful what you post on the web! Your original post contained slanderous statements. Just stop while you are ahead, please!

For it to be libel/slander it needs to not be true.
I think you'd have a problem with that part of the equation.
LOL

cinnabar
Jan. 1, 2010, 03:38 PM
Especially the need to create an alter to address the situation...

purplnurpl
Jan. 3, 2010, 12:25 PM
seems as though a lot of riders state the sames claims on their website.

I just ran across another one.