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EightBelles134
Dec. 21, 2009, 01:25 PM
i have a friend who wants to get a mare covered by Unbridleds Song. does anyone know what his temperament/soundness is like? for both him and his offspring?

lindsay_aggie
Dec. 21, 2009, 01:30 PM
Notoriously brittle horses and/or very precocious and therefore raced too early too often and therefore injured.

I can't speak to the temperment of them, the only Unbridleds Song that I know well is a breeding stallion and acts as such. He isn't bad tempered, but not a pet either.

Rubyfree
Dec. 21, 2009, 01:38 PM
If your friend has the 100k to drop on the stud fee, I'm sure your friend can also speak directly to some top-notch experts and gather their opinions on him.

It's been stated that his runners are no more fragile than any other sire, but the breakdowns have been horrific and high profile (ahem).

LaurieB
Dec. 21, 2009, 01:48 PM
He gets good looking, often very talented, offspring that are capable of competing at the highest levels. As Rubyfree said, his offspring are no more fragile than any other sire's despite the pervasive internet gossip to the contrary. Those that I have known have had good temperaments and were easy to work with.

His stud fee is actually 115K for 2010 (the 100k fee is a pay-early option) and his book is very nearly full. If your friend wants information about the horse, the best thing for her to do is call Taylor Made. I'm sure they'd be happy to tell her about him.

Mara
Dec. 21, 2009, 01:52 PM
If your friend has the 100k to drop on the stud fee, I'm sure your friend can also speak directly to some top-notch experts and gather their opinions on him.

It's been stated that his runners are no more fragile than any other sire, but the breakdowns have been horrific and high profile (ahem).

What would your friend be looking to get? A racehorse (I'm assuming as much, given the cost involved) or is s/he trying for a foal for another discipline? It's entirely possible that if the resultant offspring is allowed to mature before being asked very tough questions, the soundness problems might not come up.
You'd want a proven mare, either on the track or in the shed, for that kind of fee, and hope the market picks up over the next few years. 100K is high, and he may already have a full book for 2010, unless your friend has connections.

DickHertz
Dec. 21, 2009, 01:54 PM
I could find a lot of better ways to spend $100k in the racehorse business. Your friend is crazy to spend a lot of money on a stallion like Unbridled's Song.

EightBelles134
Dec. 21, 2009, 02:07 PM
she is breeding a first time mare and she wants to try and get a foal that she can bring along for eventing or lower level dressage...she already has a foal out of Master Command that she wants to bring along for eventing, so she wanted to try and get one from Unbridled's Song..and yes the foal would be allowed to mature, she doesn't routinely start her horses in heavy training until they're four or five

harvestmoon
Dec. 21, 2009, 02:19 PM
Urrrr....she's really going to spend $100k for an eventing/lower level dressage prospect? I mean, Master Command's stud fee is quite a bit less. It seems to me, too, that Taylor Made may not approve the mating. Though I guess it would depend on who the mare is.

But I dunno...

LaurieB
Dec. 21, 2009, 02:19 PM
she is breeding a first time mare and she wants to try and get a foal that she can bring along for eventing or lower level dressage...she already has a foal out of Master Command that she wants to bring along for eventing, so she wanted to try and get one from Unbridled's Song..and yes the foal would be allowed to mature, she doesn't routinely start her horses in heavy training until they're four or five

I can't help but question the wisdom of spending $115,000 on a stud fee to breed a horse for lower level dressage or eventing--especially since UBS offspring are known for their speed, not their movement or jumping ability--and there are many, many less expensive stallions who would be better suited to the task.

Nevertheless, considering how much in demand the horse is, I'd be surprised if TM would allow him to be bred to a non-racing mare.

ASB Stars
Dec. 21, 2009, 02:20 PM
Aw, c'mon guys....TRRRROOOOOLLLLLLL... :lol:

Laurierace
Dec. 21, 2009, 02:58 PM
I am going to breed my daughter's shetland pony to AP indy as a surprise Christmas gift.

Barnfairy
Dec. 21, 2009, 03:09 PM
Live cover? Ouch. That's a surprise gift alright.

danceronice
Dec. 21, 2009, 03:27 PM
Yeah. Assuming it's not a troll, even for RACING I'd have about ten other stallions I'd spend on before blowing $115k on Unbridled's Song. And I'd bet a chunk of that they wouldn't book a nonracing mare to him anyway.

ASB Stars
Dec. 21, 2009, 03:44 PM
I'm gonna sneek a mare into Storm Cat's paddock in KY. He may not be really fertile, but with enough covers, I figure the odds are in my favor...:winkgrin:

DickHertz
Dec. 21, 2009, 03:51 PM
she is breeding a first time mare and she wants to try and get a foal that she can bring along for eventing or lower level dressage...she already has a foal out of Master Command that she wants to bring along for eventing, so she wanted to try and get one from Unbridled's Song..and yes the foal would be allowed to mature, she doesn't routinely start her horses in heavy training until they're four or five

WA WA WA WA WHAT !!!! :eek::eek::eek:

Sweet Jesus, there is a sucker born every minute of the day. I'm not eventer person, but $100k for a foal that could be more crooked than Lombard Avenue?

Barnfairy
Dec. 21, 2009, 04:18 PM
Sweet Jesus, there is a sucker born every minute of the day. That's right. Don't be one of them.

DickHertz
Dec. 21, 2009, 04:41 PM
That's right. Don't be one of them.

Do you think this is viral marketing at it's worst?

maudie
Dec. 21, 2009, 04:45 PM
Is anyone amused at her username?

EightBelles134
Dec. 21, 2009, 05:02 PM
she's a relatively new breeder so she doesn't know alot about sires,bloodlines etc (this is her 2nd foal she's breeding), the mare that she wants to breed is an ex-racer turned broodmare who didn't do a whole lot on the track..the mare herself has decent conformation/ soundness so my friend was hoping that would play into the factor a little bit. She's also looking into The White Fox and Into Mischief. As for Unbridled's Song, he was on her "short list" of stallions to breed to which is why she asked me to try and do some research for her

DickHertz
Dec. 21, 2009, 05:17 PM
Eight Belles 134,

Unbridled Song is the most overrated sire over $50k who throws brittle horses. Gowith another option.

foundationmare
Dec. 21, 2009, 05:34 PM
Please tell your friend that I have a much less regally bred yearling filly that I will sell to her for 50% OFF of US stud fee! I think she'd make a great eventer!

OTOH, I did work with an US horse all last year who wasn't much of a racehorse but was a doll to work with (and a colt at that). Good size, chestnut with chrome and a very rakish long forelock that was the piece de resistance on an already gorgeous horse.

Hard to take this seriously EIGHT BELLES, because who the heck would pay that kind of money for an eventing prospect when my colleagues and I have recently placed many low-priced, even free, OTTBs who will go on to very successful careers as eventers?

Mara
Dec. 21, 2009, 05:45 PM
It's quite possible that the prospective breeder has no idea about breeding in the racehorse market. Hence the ignorance of the stud fee.

There are other TB stallions who have proven records/bloodlines as far as throwing good eventing stock, and their fees are much lower. That way your friend will have money left over to enter competitions after paying a stud fee and raising a baby to training age.

EightBelles134
Dec. 21, 2009, 05:46 PM
my friend would...her cousin also just spent about 50-60k(roughly) on an Palomino Thoroughbred as an event prospect

DickHertz
Dec. 21, 2009, 05:49 PM
my friend would...her cousin also just spent about 50-60k(roughly) on an Palomino Thoroughbred as an event prospect

With all of this money overflowing, why wouldn't your friend hire the industry's top consultant instead of pissing it away on the suggested ventures you've outlined in this thread?

EightBelles134
Dec. 21, 2009, 05:52 PM
because she wants an opinion she can trust and she knows i've been riding for almost 2 decades.

MintHillFarm
Dec. 21, 2009, 05:53 PM
I am going to breed my daughter's shetland pony to AP indy as a surprise Christmas gift.

Now that's a foal I would like to see!

haligator
Dec. 21, 2009, 06:18 PM
I gotta ask - I know eventing and eventers. I've been either assistant media chief or acting media chief at such events as the Rolex Kentucky CCI****, the Fair Hill International CCI***, the NAYRC CCI**, and the former Foxhall Cup CCI***. Plus, I evented back in 'the dark ages' of the 1970s and stay in touch with lots of eventers and dressage riders. Since the 1980s, I've written about the sport and the issues of the day.

If your friend really wants a good low level dressage horse or eventer, why wouldn't she step up and go to someone like Denny Emerson who is a former Eventing World Champion, former chief of USEA, columnist for COTH, former USEF Breeders Committee Chairman (the long year I served in that post was directly after Denny's tenure), and stands some fine TBs and TB/crosses for both racing and eventing? His stallions are proven and a lot less than $115,000....a whole lot less.

Also, there are tons, literally TONS of OTTBs that make fine eventers (especially the Speak John line) or lower level dressage horses. Why breed? And, if the mare has no black type and not much money won it's unlikely she would be accepted to an expensive stallion to be bred.

I don't know one top horsemen in eventing or dressage who would spend $50,000 or $60,000 for a 'Palomino TB' eventing PROSPECT - that's just plain nuts. Occasionally, a questionable trainer will get a 'new kid' to spend big bucks but this is certainly not an action to put on your resume as a breeder.

EightBelles - did you have another name on our BB prior to this week? I'm having a hard time knowing if you are, ahem, a troll, or just very ignorant. If you're trying to impress people on this BB with big numbers like $115,000- the money needs to be a couple of million for most of us to raise an eyebrow. I hate to sound terribly cynical, but you're questions aren't adding up....

Hallie

EightBelles134
Dec. 21, 2009, 06:24 PM
umm i actually just joined the board 2day, and she wants the challenge of raising and training a foal, and as far as her money, she has a pretty sizable trust fund..and the Palomino thoroughbred her cousin bought is real...i have pictures on my cell of him.

Beandog
Dec. 21, 2009, 06:36 PM
Tell your friend when she gets done spending 115k on a nonracing prospect that I have this really cool bridge for sale. Every other Tuesday it leads to My Little Pony land, the place with music and lollipops and ponies with really nifty colors. Who needs a 50k palomino prospect when you could get a lime green one complete with balloons on her butt? Not to mention when you groom her she smells like cotton candy and bubblegum.

If her trust fund is REALLY big then we might even be talking unicorns or wings.

I can even show you pictures.. they're on my cell phone. It's totally legit.

*winks, thanks for the trip down fantasy land.. I'll just be over there..in the corner..waiting for the phone to ring*

haligator
Dec. 21, 2009, 06:48 PM
Well, welcome to the board. As you can see, we are a group who is not afraid to state opinions!

EightBelles: <<<umm i actually just joined the board 2day, and she wants the challenge of raising and training a foal, and as far as her money, she has a pretty sizable trust fund..and the Palomino thoroughbred her cousin bought is real...i have pictures on my cell of him.>>>

Notice I said 'top horsemen' regarding spending money. I can only assume your friend's cousin is nowhere near the top in eventing. By the way, what sale did she buy this Palomino TB from? What is the horse's breeding? If she bought it from some unknown trainer there is indeed a sucker born every minute.

And, if you've been involved in horses seriously for twenty years I can only hope that you've been busy talking your inexperienced friend out of 'the challenge of raising and training a foal' because she doesn't sound by any stretch of the imagination ready.

And, this really isn't about money or trust funds - I thought you would get that. I don't care who has money or a trust fund or wants to drizzle away funds on an ill-conceived venture. I care about people who are REAL horsemen and I care about the HORSES then enter this world through idiotic breeding stunts. It just seemed you thought we'd all care about how much Unbridled Song costs to breed to, but if the mare is not black type it's unlikely she will get near him.

I've bred to some nice horses in my day (including River Keen, Fastness, and Malibu Moon who's got terrific race and sporthorse breeding). But, I don't breed anymore because I believe we have too many horses in the world. You can't breed because of your ego....

I'll be real here, I'm usually much nicer than this but my 'nice' got fried this past week. So, I have to be honest with you instead of vaguely nice. I'm sure you are a decent human being and are kind to animals. You're just coming off as being very naive.

Hallie (usually nicer)

LaurieB
Dec. 21, 2009, 07:32 PM
Well I posted two earlier replies but now that more information has been given it's become very easy to condense my thoughts into a shorter answer: tell your friend to strike Unbridleds Song off her list. He's a very popular and very busy racehorse sire; there's no way her mare would be accepted into his (almost full) book.

It's not about the money. There are plenty of top racemares and racehorse producers standing in line to breed to UBS. There's no way that TM would give up a spot in his book to someone who hopes to someday maybe have an eventer.

haligator
Dec. 21, 2009, 07:43 PM
Beandog! Can I join you in the corner waiting for the phone to ring? I think that sounds about right where I need to be.....

Hallie

Barnfairy
Dec. 21, 2009, 10:27 PM
Who needs a 50k palomino prospect when you could get a lime green one complete with balloons on her butt? Not to mention when you groom her she smells like cotton candy and bubblegum.
Does said prospect also subsist entirely upon gummy worms, and fart out butterflies?

EightBelles134
Dec. 22, 2009, 07:25 AM
actually he really exists...and there are people out there willing to spend that kind of money

EightBelles134
Dec. 22, 2009, 07:28 AM
if you look on Darren Chiacchia's site he has horses for sale that are priced at 150k+

Laurierace
Dec. 22, 2009, 08:07 AM
My daughter is going to be crushed! They wouldn't let me breed my shetland pony to AP Indy because she was too ugly. I don't think she is ugly, do you? Here is the closest thing I have to a confo critique.

AppJumpr08
Dec. 22, 2009, 08:13 AM
if you look on Darren Chiacchia's site he has horses for sale that are priced at 150k+

True. But those are upper level horses. And horses that are already in training. Paying for a stud fee is not a promise of anything. And spending 100k+ on a stud fee for a lower level prospect does make people's eyebrows go up... Once the mare care and foal care is paid for, and your friend has paid for the foal to make it to 4 years old, she'll have WAY more than 115k into the resulting foal... with no guarantee of even getting a lower level prospect.

AppJumpr08
Dec. 22, 2009, 08:14 AM
And no, I don't know why I'm trying to be rational about this... it's before my first cup of coffee...
That's a shame about AP Indy! I'm sure the foal would've been... interesting :D

Vesper Sparrow
Dec. 22, 2009, 09:20 AM
Why not get a deserving CANTER horse or go to the yearling sales? I have a coming 5 year old US grandson who is smart, sweet and very fancy (and slow as molasses in January) and who went for $1,600 at Keeneland... He's got a fair bit of jumping and dressage talent and low-level dressage and eventing should not be a problem. That's 1/100th the cost of a US mating... which you can spend on training instead!

DickHertz
Dec. 22, 2009, 09:48 AM
I talked to the people at Taylor Made. They said, they'd accept your friend's mare. Give them a call.

hitchinmygetalong
Dec. 22, 2009, 10:15 AM
I talked to the people at Taylor Made. They said, they'd accept your friend's mare. Give them a call.

Desperate times all around, eh? :lol:

To the OP: If your friend wants to produce an eventer, you are better off going to the Eventing forum on Chron and asking about sires there. There are PLENTY of good Thoroughbed stallions that are producing very good eventing offspring. If your friend insists she has to spend $100,000 on a stud fee, I'm sure there is someone out there who can accommodate her. :yes: A word to the wise: Be sure to tell her to announce what she WANTS to pay before asking what the stud fee is, though. :winkgrin:

SleepyFox
Dec. 22, 2009, 10:39 AM
I'm not sure why I'm responding, but being sick on the couch, what else to do?


She's also looking into The White Fox and Into Mischief. As for Unbridled's Song, he was on her "short list" of stallions to breed to which is why she asked me to try and do some research for her

The White Fox might be a good choice. I believe others are breeding to him for sporthorse (reg TB) foals.

If I was looking for a good looking grey that put a pretty and easy to deal with baby on the ground I'd go with US's son, Buddha. Beautiful foals and I'm sure the mare would be accepted to his book.

loshad
Dec. 22, 2009, 11:16 AM
And spending 100k+ on a stud fee for a lower level prospect does make people's eyebrows go up...

Au contraire -- it's hard to roll your eyes without also raising your eyebrows, as I have discovered more than once on this thread. :yes:

Barnfairy
Dec. 22, 2009, 11:53 AM
My daughter is going to be crushed! They wouldn't let me breed my shetland pony to AP Indy because she was too ugly. I don't think she is ugly, do you? Here is the closest thing I have to a confo critique.I am concerned that this Shetland is Cushingoid, or insulin resistant at the very least. Further more, her stance is so camped out I'm wondering if she's having a bout of colic.

But then again perhaps she's just in heat. It does add to the femininity of her overall appearance.

With those post legs and straight shoulder she must feel like a jackhammer to ride. I don't think she'll win any points for jumping style, though she may be able to get the job done in a deer-like stotting manner.

Her head is not entirely unattractive, though she would seem to be slightly monkey-mouthed, and I think I can just make out two horn-like growths on her forehead.

Giant's Causeway could improve her greatly.

Laurierace
Dec. 22, 2009, 12:54 PM
I can't believe it, I come here looking for support over my great disappointment and my mare gets bashed some more. You guys don't know what you are talking about, you'll be sorry when we win the derby or the olympics or something!

caffeinated
Dec. 22, 2009, 01:06 PM
If I was looking for a good looking grey that put a pretty and easy to deal with baby on the ground I'd go with US's son, Buddha. Beautiful foals and I'm sure the mare would be accepted to his book.

Seen a couple nice Buddha babies :)

Also would consider Down The Aisle.

Laurierace
Dec. 22, 2009, 01:13 PM
I actually have a Buddha baby on the way. My mare is due Feb 13th. I will take $57,000 for him/her in utero, that's half of what UBS will cost. Should I PM my mailing address so you can send the check?

Vesper Sparrow
Dec. 22, 2009, 01:17 PM
If I was looking for a good looking grey that put a pretty and easy to deal with baby on the ground I'd go with US's son, Buddha. Beautiful foals and I'm sure the mare would be accepted to his book.

I'd take another Buddha in a heartbeat. My boy is forward, athletic, smart, brave, with great gaits but can sit in his stall for a week and I, a timid old lady, can take him out and ride him, no problem. Nothing fazes him. No spook in him at all. A real sweetheart of a gelding. I do dressage on him and my coach is going to event him.

What has happened to Buddha, by the way? He isn't on Pin Oak Lane's roster anymore, as far as I can tell...

LaurieB
Dec. 22, 2009, 01:44 PM
Her head is not entirely unattractive, though she would seem to be slightly monkey-mouthed, and I think I can just make out two horn-like growths on her forehead.



Hey, watch those insults. Borrego has horns and they never stopped him. :D

Barnfairy
Dec. 22, 2009, 01:49 PM
I can't believe it, I come here looking for support over my great disappointment and my mare gets bashed some more. You guys don't know what you are talking about, you'll be sorry when we win the derby or the olympics or something!Well, it is just about time for the Shetland Pony Grand National.

Hey, speaking of steeplechase, maybe you should bring her to Dynaformer!

Try sending 3C's some pictures of her from your cell phone. I'm sure that would help.

Barnfairy
Dec. 22, 2009, 01:50 PM
Hey, watch those insults. Borrego has horns and they never stopped him. :D

Devil horns are quite appropriate for a Shetland pony, now that I think of it.

Sorry, I was rusty on my breed standards.

EponaRoan
Dec. 22, 2009, 03:35 PM
This thread reminds me of that old joke.

Q: How do you make a million with horses?

A: Start with $10 million.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

harvestmoon
Dec. 22, 2009, 04:10 PM
What has happened to Buddha, by the way? He isn't on Pin Oak Lane's roster anymore, as far as I can tell...

I think he's in Pennsylvania now, but I'm not positive.

hitchinmygetalong
Dec. 22, 2009, 04:53 PM
Correct, Harvestmoon!

He is standing for $3,500 at Pin Oak Lane. If that is too cheap for the OP's friend, I would suggest adding a zero and multiplying by two.

foundationmare
Dec. 22, 2009, 04:57 PM
I'm getting such a kick out of this thread, and, let me tell ya', I'm not easily amused these days. Hitchinmygetalong, hahahahahahaha!

But.....why oh why not get an OTTB that.....oh, never mind. head desk

foundationmare
Dec. 22, 2009, 05:02 PM
Clearly, I'm not well. With that much money to throw around, she could send her mare to Buddha and send ME the difference between his stud-fee and Unbridled Song's stud-fee! Yeah, yeah, that's it! She gets a perfectly nice foal AND spreads some Christmas cheer, a twofer if you will.

Miss Aria
Dec. 22, 2009, 05:21 PM
You guys are too funny. Let the person spend her $$s on Unbridleds Song or whatever other high dollar stud she wants; then she can spend more money raising the foal and hiring a trainer to train it. It'll be good for the economy, after all. Only thing is, it's very possible the poor horse will eventually find itself at a low end auction being rescued by one of us! We would hope not, but that's where a lot of them wind up.

foundationmare
Dec. 22, 2009, 05:40 PM
Miss Aria,

You are so right! Sucks, doesn't it?

foundationmare
Dec. 22, 2009, 05:44 PM
Not HR, but related in a "this-is-how-I-spend-money-stupidly" way:http://www.usatoday.com/life/lifestyle/pets/2009-12-20-china-dogs_N.htm?se=yahoorefer.

Meh.

Laurierace
Dec. 22, 2009, 05:45 PM
This is fun to joke about but in reality it isn't just about having money to burn. A stallion is only as good as his get and if they let Jane Wanna Be breed for the show ring that is one less horse to boost his stats. String a bunch of those together and all of a sudden your stallion's stats don't look so good and it all starts going to hell. I am glad we could have fun with this but Taylor Made would be laughing as they hung the phone up. One possibly fictious rich chick isn't enough to turn their heads I assure you.

lesson junkie
Dec. 22, 2009, 06:58 PM
I must confess-this is my #1 Daydream While Stall Cleaning. Yes, yes, it's completely unrealistic/impractical/senseless/silly, I know. But how much fun would it be to have a RocK Hard Ten baby purpose bred for sport?

When I was 18, I wanted to jump my mare into Secretariat's paddock. Good thing I didn't have a truck and trailer-that mare would jump anything!

foundationmare
Dec. 22, 2009, 07:24 PM
Lesson Junkie, haven't seen him in person but hear that he is a total stud muffin! Good choice!

Kim
Dec. 23, 2009, 10:07 AM
When I visited some of the stud farms in Lexington, they told me that they scrutinize any mare that is requested to be bred to their stallions, and regularly turn them down. I have a feeling that could be the case here. They said they would rather turn down money than have a "less than" representing their farm and stallion.

Given the screen name, could it be that the person wants a sibling of Eight Belles?? :-/

EponaRoan
Dec. 23, 2009, 01:04 PM
Most people who stand racehorse stallions want the people who breed their mares to race the babies. Doesn't matter if it's Unbridled's Song or Pokey Bob.

Doesn't do much for stallion stats if people just keep the offspring as pets/sporthorses/whatever.

Granted, there's always the chance that will happen - best laid plans of mice and men and all that.

They also look at the mare herself - did she win? What? How about her family? If you look at stallion ads, there is often a 'consideration' given to stakes winners, dams of stakes winners or siblings of stakes winners. Yes, even at "Pokey Bob" level. If you have an Unbridled's Song, you can be even more picky.

eventer80
Dec. 23, 2009, 02:09 PM
Darren's horses are bred for eventing, so an eventer may pay that for a proven horse. I am confused because I just spent alot of
time researching event bloodlines so I could buy a prospect and there are tons more successful eventing bloodlines out there, no matter what the price. If you are looking to breed an eventer, I would look for lines that are proven to produce the type
of
horse she is looking for. There are tons of stallions out there that produce awesome ammy eventers with talent and good brains (both TB and non-TB).

It just sounds like a poor decision and has the possibility of producing an expensive
foal that has no niche

SleepyFox
Dec. 23, 2009, 03:06 PM
Most people who stand racehorse stallions want the people who breed their mares to race the babies. Doesn't matter if it's Unbridled's Song or Pokey Bob.

You're absolutely right, EponaRoan. But, this thread got me thinking... IME, when booking a mare the booking secretary, if not already familiar with the mare, will pull her pedigree and produce record. When negotiating a deal, I have also been quizzed about the mare's conformation and my planned foaling state. But, I have never been asked what my purpose for the resulting foal was. I wonder if that would come up depending on the mare's record. :confused:

Trying2Event
Dec. 24, 2009, 11:46 AM
she's a relatively new breeder so she doesn't know alot about sires,bloodlines etc (this is her 2nd foal she's breeding), the mare that she wants to breed is an ex-racer turned broodmare who didn't do a whole lot on the track..the mare herself has decent conformation/ soundness so my friend was hoping that would play into the factor a little bit. She's also looking into The White Fox and Into Mischief. As for Unbridled's Song, he was on her "short list" of stallions to breed to which is why she asked me to try and do some research for her


Unless she has some sort of...sentimental want for an US baby, this is insane. Steer her toward Hat Trick. Also, if she is taking sugar mama applications, I'd gladly send her my resume.

EightBelles134
Dec. 26, 2009, 02:14 PM
has Hat Trick sired any sporthorse babies? I talked to her this morning and apparently she's been researching Songandaprayer as well..does anyone know if he's a good sire?or if he would be bred to a sporthorse mare?and i agree that 100k is ridiculous to spend on a sporthorse,but the way i look at it is its her money, i can only offer advice

danceronice
Dec. 26, 2009, 02:33 PM
Why not ask in the Sport Horse forum for Sport Horse TB sires for your friend? Honestly, any of the pricey racing stallions are going to have limited books and are highly unlikely to breed to someone who just wants a show prospect. Especially if the mare doesn't have any racing progeny or success on the track herself. That's not the business they're in.

Louise
Dec. 26, 2009, 04:38 PM
Why not ask in the Sport Horse forum for Sport Horse TB sires for your friend? Honestly, any of the pricey racing stallions are going to have limited books and are highly unlikely to breed to someone who just wants a show prospect. Especially if the mare doesn't have any racing progeny or success on the track herself. That's not the business they're in.

This.

I'll start her off with A Fine Romance. Wonderful horse who has produced many fine sporthorses. And his owner is very good to work with.

But, that's only the start. Ask on the Sport Horse Breeding Forum, there are a number of very fine choices out there. And, they are choices that will be more likely to produce the kind of horse that your friend wants.

AppJumpr08
Dec. 26, 2009, 07:30 PM
This.

I'll start her off with A Fine Romance. Wonderful horse who has produced many fine sporthorses. And his owner is very good to work with.

But, that's only the start. Ask on the Sport Horse Breeding Forum, there are a number of very fine choices out there. And, they are choices that will be more likely to produce the kind of horse that your friend wants.

Ditto.

Innkeeper, AFR, Coconut Grove, Salute The Truth... the list of amazing TB stallions is getting longer every day.

Grataan
Dec. 27, 2009, 01:44 PM
My daughter is going to be crushed! They wouldn't let me breed my shetland pony to AP Indy because she was too ugly. I don't think she is ugly, do you? Here is the closest thing I have to a confo critique.

I think that is a fine specimen Laurie. I wonder if you could do as ASB suggested and just "accidentally" wink wink turn her out with Storm Cat wink wink

nextyear
Dec. 28, 2009, 11:37 AM
has Hat Trick sired any sporthorse babies? I talked to her this morning and apparently she's been researching Songandaprayer as well..does anyone know if he's a good sire?or if he would be bred to a sporthorse mare?and i agree that 100k is ridiculous to spend on a sporthorse,but the way i look at it is its her money, i can only offer advice

Have her give Mary Hazzard in Unionville Pa. a call, her stallion Mystic Replica by Babamist, has produced many many event horses..His fee is $1500.00 I think for 2010 but I am sure she will accept much more if your friend so desires.
I have several really nice event horses already competiting at all levels for much less than $150K and have had students purchase some really nice 2** and 3*** star horses for much less than that price also.

halo
Dec. 29, 2009, 07:30 PM
You got a better shot of getting to the teaser at Taylor Made than Unbridleds Song. Not only is he nearly full, but its approved mares only.

rcloisonne
Dec. 29, 2009, 07:36 PM
You got a better shot of getting to the teaser at Taylor Made than Unbridleds Song. Not only is he nearly full, but its approved mares only.
You must have missed post #40. You gots the moolah, you gots the horse. ;)

juliet
Dec. 30, 2009, 04:44 PM
I don't think the owners of Unbridled's Song would breed to an unknown/untested mare. This person's thread does not seem credible.

Laurierace
Dec. 30, 2009, 04:56 PM
Yep

EightBelles134
Dec. 30, 2009, 08:38 PM
i merely posted on here at her request seeking people's advice..not with the intent to be bashed/called a liar and FYI she's chosen her final three stallions to look at and Undbridled's Song is no longer on the list

foundationmare
Dec. 30, 2009, 09:16 PM
EightBelles, I don't think that you or your friend were bashed or in any way disrespected by the responses here. You asked for opinions on a forum with many highly knowledgeable and experienced people who are only interested in giving legitimate information.

The fact that your friend appeared to be more interested in spending high bucks, seemingly for the appearance of breeding a mare to a high-ticket stallion for the sake of that alone, is off-putting to many of us. Frankly, it reeks of snobbery at best, poor decision-making at worst. Who cares how much money she has? The point is that she has a mare. Why does that mare need to be bred? There are already many, many horses...OTTBs in particular....that can get your friend to the level she desires. Why breed another that may end up in a kill pen?

Fact is that there are no guarantees produced in the breeding shed. That little foal doesn't know if it's a pasture-bred oops or a meg-bucks dud. Many of us have dealt with expensive horses (e.g. high stud fees, including US) that are languishing. At the end of their careers, they are no more valuable than the backyard FUGLY. It's sad, I agree. But it's true.

So, your take on us "bashing" her is an honest assessment of her choices. You asked for our advice and we gave it. And, frankly, the absurdity of her position could have yielded a much more ascerbic response, but we are a generally helpful bunch. Take that as you choose.

tbracer65
Dec. 31, 2009, 12:51 AM
So, your take on us "bashing" her is an honest assessment of her choices. You asked for our advice and we gave it. And, frankly, the absurdity of her position could have yielded a much more ascerbic response, but we are a generally helpful bunch. Take that as you choose.

I surely don't want to add to the fire here --- have just been reading the responses since this started. But some of you guys did go right on & disrespected her. If you go back and READ what she first typed....she merely asked if anybody had experiences with the studs TEMPERMENT/SOUNDNESS & the same for his foals. To me it's really none of my business how much money her friend has or how much that stud's fee is, as she didn't ask that. I personally don't care as it's her friends money & she can do as she pleases --- I didn't answer her first question as I have never had an Unbridled's Song baby in my care & have no clue about what he sires temperment and/or soundness-wise. Just not sure how money factored into the equation when it wasn't in the original question??? I give credit to those who DID answer her question, but can't believe some of the other responses on here....... To one person a $100 dollars is a LOT of money -- to someone else, a $100,000 is a LOT of money.
To the OP -- hopefully your friend finds a stallion to suit her needs. I do agree, even though I know you were trying to get honest answers off of people who usually are around the 'racing' bloodlines, after reading the responses here I think you should post in the sport horse breeding or eventing forum.....

haligator
Dec. 31, 2009, 05:21 AM
Foundationmare,
You've said it all. Thank you for your easily understandable thoughts and suggestions (I think it had to be as basic as you made it....).

Now, I can go back to slaying dragons and forget about this. I'm not quite sure why this thread bothered me so much but it did. I guess it is that thin line between a troll and a legitimate poster that still hasn't been established. Because the person in question said she had 'two decades' experience I thought we could expect a bit wiser inquiry. We had anything but that.

Best,
Hallie :)

Andrew
Dec. 31, 2009, 07:54 AM
WA WA WA WA WHAT !!!! :eek::eek::eek:

Sweet Jesus, there is a sucker born every minute of the day. I'm not eventer person, but $100k for a foal that could be more crooked than Lombard Avenue?

Thank you for a great New Year's laugh Dick!!!!!!!!

Barnfairy
Dec. 31, 2009, 08:26 AM
If you go back and READ what she first typed....she merely asked if anybody had experiences with the studs TEMPERMENT/SOUNDNESS & the same for his foals. And the OP received honest answers to those questions.

It all went wrong with this post here (http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4569096&postcount=7), which conveys about the same amount of credibility as a Nigerian scammer.

Really. Your friend wants to go to Unbridled's Song for a lower level dressage prospect. Really? Come on.

As someone actively involved in rehoming TBs coming off the track, that kind of attitude towards breeding --My mare has a uterus, and I want a foooooal, but I don't even have enough experience to tell me that breeding to Unbridled's Song for eventing and low level dressage is absolutely ludicrous-- makes me want to pull my hair out.

Cut us a little slack for suspecting a newbie named "EightBelles" of being a troll.