Accumulating moisture while blanketed?

[appychik]

This is kinda long. I'd appreciate some advice. So, please read to the end.

Question.

Has anyone's horse had some moisture accumulate on either the horse itself or the blanket, when days have been warmer then predicted?

Example.

Gus was blanketed for 0-10 degree weather (not factoring in the windchill) - which included his 220g filled Dover Northwind, the neck cover (which matches) and a 180g fill liner (the Schneiders blanket liner).

Well, yesterday it got up to 32 degrees. :eek: So, yep he was warm. Don't blame him either, because he was slightly overdressed. My fault. 100%.

I got a phone call that he had moisture accumulating on him (didn't tell me where at the time... found out today that it was all over his body - even places where he was not covered) and I needed to get out there and take some of his layers off. So, given the nature of the call I busted butt and was at the barn in just over an hour.

Gus was perfectly fine (again) when I got there. There was no moisture to be had. Blanket (and liner) were fine. BO had already pulled the neck cover off. Gus was a bit warmer then I prefer with the blanket on... but nothing was damp whatsoever. He was 100% bone dry. Completely.

So, my question to you is this. Is accumulating moisture on a blanket/horse a bad thing? What if it goes away on it own in a short period of time?

Went to the barn again today and got the umpteeth degree read to me. BO really is concerned about the horses' health and while she doesn't totally agree with blanketing 100% (she will blanket if a horse is shivering and only if shivering), she feels that Gus is sweating off the extra calories he's consuming. That's why he's not gaining weight.

And, while I see where she's coming from, she thinks that I'm blanketing for all the wrong reasons. I have yet to come up with a good enough (and proven, like scientifically :confused:) reason to work for her.

Anyways, Gus is off in his Dover Northwind now, sans neck cover and liner. It's a very good blanket that is very, very breathable. Never had any issues with water seeping in (except perhaps by the withers on rare occassions) or with dampness issues. Weather is supposed to range from 20 to -10 for the next 3-4 days.

Do I need to worry about him having moisture on his neck, even when he's dry underneath the blanket? FWIW, I've never felt moisture, period, on him this fall thus far. The only times I've had issues with that in the past is when I've had him overblanketed (and that will unfortunately happen while at boarding barn when I have to dress him for the next 3-4 days).

I'm just confused and feel like I'm doing right by Gus. Because every barn I've been at we've done things this way (blanketing, that is). I got pretty angry at the BO today because I felt that she was being personal with her issues, however that really wasn't the case.

Does anyone know of good, legitimate articles that I could print out to prove that blanketing isn't a cardinal sin?

As an aside. I will not be moving barns in the near future, so don't bring it up. And other then this blanket issue, the care at the barn is superb. The boys love it there.

[MDMom]

Perhaps he was running around like a fool and broke a sweat and by the time you got there, the blanket had done it's job and wicked away the sweat. Otherwise, I would find it very odd that an hour later there was no moisture to be found.

As far as justifying it to someone who's resistant to blankets, that's a tough one. Do you trust the BO's advice on other things? Does he have a thick enough coat to go without blankets? Does he lose weight without a blanket? Are you keeping him blanketed in order to keep his coat short for riding so you don't have to clip him? Try to justify blanketing to yourself and you may come up with all the answers you need for the BO.

Sounds like you have a good situation, so try not to get defensive and really listen to what the BO has to say. Hopefully, she will do the same for you.

[Fharoah]

Wow I would not expect him to sweat in a 220 at 32 F? My horses have worn a 220 since middle of October. It has been in the 20's overnight this past week and my boy wears 440 thinsilite kodiak. I stick my hand under he never sweats.

[appychik]

Wow I would not expect him to sweat in a 220 at 32 F? My horses have worn a 220 since middle of October. It has been in the 20's overnight this past week and my boy wears 440 thinsilite kodiak. I stick my hand under he never sweats.

He was wearing 220g (Dover Northwind) PLUS the SS liner (additional 180g)... so a total of 400g.

A bit too much for 32 degrees, but it was definitely needed for the subzero weather we had just days prior (high was like 3 degrees for 3-4 days in a row).

[myrna]

Not all blankets are as breathable as some others.I have a gazillion weatherbeeta blankets that are great.The horses are never sweaty under them,but the weatherbeeta tristar is a different story.I have only put it on my mare a few times and each time she is sopping under neath it.Not sure why but all of my other blankets are great.And as she doesn't grow much of a winter coat she is blanketed most of the year in different weights.If i waited until she was shivering,she would never let me forget it!After all she is a chestnut trakehner mare!

[EqTrainer]

Well, I can tell you that I will be sending you some info about his weight soon and it has nothing to do w/his blankets.

Does this person really just not want to blanket your horse?

I think what you are doing is fine. When you are working to put weight on a horse you don't want them burning calories to stay warm. IR horses tend to be cold natured, just like diabetics. They also tend to get muscle sore if allowed to get cold.

[appychik]

Perhaps he was running around like a fool and broke a sweat and by the time you got there, the blanket had done it's job and wicked away the sweat. Otherwise, I would find it very odd that an hour later there was no moisture to be found.

As far as justifying it to someone who's resistant to blankets, that's a tough one. Do you trust the BO's advice on other things? Does he have a thick enough coat to go without blankets? Does he lose weight without a blanket? Are you keeping him blanketed in order to keep his coat short for riding so you don't have to clip him? Try to justify blanketing to yourself and you may come up with all the answers you need for the BO.

Sounds like you have a good situation, so try not to get defensive and really listen to what the BO has to say. Hopefully, she will do the same for you.

To answer your questions:

He could have been running around like an idiot. But, Gus typically doesn't run around too much... he's lazy :winkgrin:. It is very odd in my opinion also, that no moisture was to be found. You'd think something would be there... definitely if I got there within the hour it was discovered.

1. Yes I do trust the BO advice on other things.
2. Yes he's got a thick coat... but, not sure it's enough to survive a MN winter all by itself.
3. He's always been blanketed, least for the last 10 years since I've had him. He is underweight now and I'd like to get another 100lbs on him.
4. This year, nope. He can grow a winter coat. In years past, he's been body clipped so he can still be worked hard in the winter. This year is the first time in 5-6 years that he's not been body clipped.

And, unfortunately for me, it's easier said then done to not get defensive. I hate being put on the spot and I feel like I need to constantly defend my reasons why I blanket Gus. That's the only thing I'm defensive about with regards to my horses.

Hope those answers help.

[appychik]

Well, I can tell you that I will be sending you some info about his weight soon and it has nothing to do w/his blankets.

Does this person really just not want to blanket your horse?

I think what you are doing is fine. When you are working to put weight on a horse you don't want them burning calories to stay warm. IR horses tend to be cold natured, just like diabetics. They also tend to get muscle sore if allowed to get cold.

Thanks EqT - I was hoping to hear back from you soon about the other (weight) issues.

I think, in a way, yes she really does not want me blanketing my horse. She says that everyone she talks to at work that has horses thinks I'm doing everything wrong, it's abusive, yadda yadda yadda.

My future FIL actually told her to drop it and not worry about making me upset. :lol: But, she said she couldn't stand around and watch a horse's health deterioate. That's why she spoke up.

She really does *think* she has he's best interest in mind. She said she's speaking up on behalf of Gus. I do appreicate that. But I still don't think I'm in the wrong.

I do acknowledge that he was way over blanketed for those temperatures. But... the forecast was about 10 degrees warmer then it should have been. So, I wasn't entirely at fault either. I was planning on changing blankets today anyways. I just didn't have the time or $ to drive out to the barn back to back, hence why I was only going to go to the barn on Sunday, not both Saturday and Sunday (which I ended up doing anyways this weekend).

[sublimequine]

I don't know your horse, but with my mare I err on the side of underblanketing. I'd rather have her a bit chilly than overheating. Even with just a turnout sheet on in single digit temps, I never see her shiver as long as she's got SOMETHING on to block the wind and rain, and to help trap that body heat in.

So perhaps you can compromise with BO, and try and blanket a bit lighter, just so long as the horse doesn't shiver? Just an idea. :)

[appychik]

I don't know your horse, but with my mare I err on the side of underblanketing. I'd rather have her a bit chilly than overheating. Even with just a turnout sheet on in single digit temps, I never see her shiver as long as she's got SOMETHING on to block the wind and rain, and to help trap that body heat in.

So perhaps you can compromise with BO, and try and blanket a bit lighter, just so long as the horse doesn't shiver? Just an idea. :)

But would you change to a lighter blanket now, even if the horse had been blanketed heavier for the last 2-3 weeks? She was fine with me still blanketing, but didn't like the fact that he was wearing so many layers (again, he was only wearing so many because the weather was horrible) and the fact that he had moisture accumulating. Again, that rarely happens as I'm usually better about blanketing for the weather. But, forecasters were way off for the weekend... uggh.

I think we could reach a compromised with a lighter blanket. But the fact is all I've got lighter is a sheet. No fill whatsoever. Otherwise, I can do the sheet plus the 180g fill liner. Or the Dover Northwind. Those are my options.

[bird4416]

Like Sublime said, try to blanket a little lighter as a compromise. I've always opted to underblanket rather than over blanket. Horses handle cold much better than heat. Sweating under a blanket isn't a good thing.

[appychik]

Sweating under a blanket isn't a good thing.

I agree. 100%.

However, wouldn't you think there would be some evidence of sweating an hour after it being discovered? That's what makes me wonder...

She said she's never call me unless something was up. I do believe that.

I guess I gotta figure out what to put on Gus now... I'll see about leaving the 220g fill on for the time being.

[sublimequine]

Why don't you list what clothing you do have, and maybe folks can make some suggestions as to what to put on and such. :)

[Fharoah]

My horses are happy in there 220 most all of the winter. On the odd cold night I will put my geldings 440 thinsilite on, it is breathable and no heavier than his 220 pollygram. But I switch back to 220 as soon as it warms. I also will take my horses blankets off on any decent day like if the sun comes out and it is not frozen I will often pull blankets during the day to allow some sun on there backs, then groom and put back on at night. But I am lucky as I have my horses at home not possible for most. Also a thinsilite 300 gram is great. I personally am not a fan of layering but that is just me. Mine is simular to this http://www.bizrate.com/equestrian-clothing-equipment/oid1650523984.html I love thinsilite they don't sweat!

Good Luck!

[tBHj]

Being too warm can make horses sick.

If he was sweating why didn't the BO take off the liner?

[BrookdaleBay]

With temps ranging from -16 in the morning to the low negative single digits during the day, my boy is wearing a 1200g stable blanket with a rain sheet over top.
I know that sounds like over kill, but he dropped at least 100lbs in the fall when the temperatures began to drop at night when he was still living outside. Now he is clipped because he sweats like a pig when worked, so I'd like to keep his current weight before the real winter chill sets in.
Everyday I feel under his blankets and he has never sweated, just always comfortably warm.

[sublimequine]

With temps ranging from -16 in the morning to the low negative single digits during the day, my boy is wearing a 1200g stable blanket with a rain sheet over top.
I know that sounds like over kill, but he dropped at least 100lbs in the fall when the temperatures began to drop at night when he was still living outside. Now he is clipped because he sweats like a pig when worked, so I'd like to keep his current weight before the real winter chill sets in.
Everyday I feel under his blankets and he has never sweated, just always comfortably warm.

I'm assuming you mean 1200D.. I've NEVER heard of 1200g before! :eek:

[Bogie]

My horse is out 24/7 and most of the time he wears a mid-weight (220 g) blanket. The only time I put him in a heavier one is when it's going to be in the single digits.

I've been impressed by the breathability of my Rambos because even when I've had temperature swings and it's gotten warmer than I thought it might be, I've never found him overheated.

I also tend to err on the side of under blanketing, at least with this horse. I have had horses that seem to be more susceptible to the cold and they did wear heavier blankets.

[BrookdaleBay]

I'm assuming you mean 1200D.. I've NEVER heard of 1200g before! :eek:

Wow, okay, just re-read the Greenhawk product description and it says the blanket has a 1200 denier water resistant outer shell and a 550 gm. I assume the 550 gm refers to the blankets weight?

[sublimequine]

Wow, okay, just re-read the Greenhawk product description and it says the blanket has a 1200 denier water resistant outer shell and a 550 gm. I assume the 550 gm refers to the blankets weight?

Yep, that's correct. I just thought some new super crazy heavyweight blanket had come out and I hadn't heard about it! :lol:

550g is still pretty heavy though, my "heavyweight" blanket is 300g. I was thinking of getting a 400 or 500 for the days where I'd typically double blanket.. but they're hard to find in a waterproof turnout! :(

[Hip]

I'm not a fan of blanketing but I'd rather under-blanket than overdo. I have one horse that keeps me on my toes about which blanket to use (I don't know where she came from before I bought her and she doesn't seem to be 'prepared' for really, really wet weather, cold doesn't seem to bother her very much).

Um, not to start something, but didn't you have this problem a while back with the BO?? She called and 'had' to have you at the barn for some reason and you drove with your mom out there?? If so, maybe you can find some information online or in books and show her firsthand why you blanket. Or print out this post and show her. (Maybe delete my post before you show her!)

[stoicfish]

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229822http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229551
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233834
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233799
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235202

Is BO still your future mother in law who keeps your horses for next to nothing, basically as a favor?
I am not sure your will ever be able to prove to her that blankets are necessary for your horse, unless he is sick or shaved he should be fine without. There is no definitive answer, it is what you want to do. But honestly if I was taking care of someone's horse as a favor, I would be annoyed by the extra work of a blanket if there was no other reason except the owner likes her horse blanketed. I sincerely hope you can figure out a solution to your issue with the people keeping your horses.


Articles for you
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=13373
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=13124
http://www.thehorse.com/pdf/January2009/forum.pdf
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=1770
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=625
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=2320

I'm just confused and feel like I'm doing right by Gus. Because every barn I've been at we've done things this way (blanketing, that is). I got pretty angry at the BO today because I felt that she was being personal with her issues, however that really wasn't the case.

Does anyone know of good, legitimate articles that I could print out to prove that blanketing isn't a cardinal sin?

[LauraKY]

We usually blanket fairly heavily to avoid clipping if at all possible. Just stick to your guns and do what you feel is right. I would err on the side of a little too warm if he's underweight, if it were my horse.

[appychik]

Okay. Here's "the list" of blankets that I have. Here goes nothing (from lightest to heaviest)...

(2) Schneiders Aquanon Sheets - absolutely NO fill
(2) closed front, no-name blanekts - maybe 150g fill (one is no longer waterproof)
Schneider's Adjusta-Fit Nylon Liner - 180g fill
Dover Northwind Turnout - 200g fill (I kept calling this 220g fill, my mistake)
Shires Grand Prix Combo Turnout - 350g fill (complete with attached neck cover)
Schneider's Dura-Tech Endura Stable Blanket - 440g fill

I also have three neck covers:

(2) that go with the Aquanon sheet, but these are about 200g fill and the Dover Northwind matching neck cover, which is also 200g fill, IIRC.

I don't mind under-blanketing, it's just that it got WAY warmer then excepted on Saturday. I was planning on changing the blankets around on Sunday anyways. So, in general, he's not overblanketed at all... the weather just caught me off guard and I had other plans on Saturday, which was why I was not planning on going to the barn.

If Gus were at his old barn, he's be in the Shires blanket for sure right now (it's 4 degrees out with windchill about -9... high is just 10 degrees today). Instead, he's wearing the Dover Northwind sans neck cover.

So, given those options of blankets, what would you suggest? Keeping in mind that Gus is (a) underweight and (b) arthritic - he stays much more looser throughout his body if he's warmer.

ETA: BO won't remove/change blankets for me. Which is why she wouldn't remove the blanket & liner and then reapply the blanket. I'm not really paying for her to do that and honestly, I've only had one BO tha would do blanket changes. Gus is used to wearing whatever until I can get out to change things up. He's never had any issues in the past being blanketed like this.

[AnotherRound]

Oh, Ok, I see you're in Minnesota!!!

You know what I would tell the BO - if it gets really warm during the day, go ahead and take some or all the blankets off, and let me know (so I can put them on again at night, next, if I want to). If she doesn't want to take them off, then that's fine, if it gets to be a warm day, I'll notice anyway and get to the barn and take the blankets off, as soon as I can. If I can't make it, and he keeps the blankets on, its not biggie, because its not really going to hurt him. Lets leave it this way. You don't have to worry about it unless I call and then if you can take them off, great, if you can't, I'll come by and do it myself, how's that. thanks for attending to him, you're great!!!

:cool:

Kill her with cheerfulness.

There are somepeople in the world who love to have the people around them on the edge of their seats worrying about whether or not they just did something wrong and second guessing themselves. Sounds to me like your future MIL is just that sort. Disengage by not getting wound up about her. Do your best, if its not good enough for her, let her stew about it and be extra cheerful and friendly. Good Luck

[appychik]

Oh, Ok, I see you're in Minnesota!!!

You know what I would tell the BO - if it gets really warm during the day, go ahead and take some or all the blankets off, and let me know (so I can put them on again at night, next, if I want to). If she doesn't want to take them off, then that's fine, if it gets to be a warm day, I'll notice anyway and get to the barn and take the blankets off, as soon as I can. If I can't make it, and he keeps the blankets on, its not biggie, because its not really going to hurt him. Lets leave it this way. You don't have to worry about it unless I call and then if you can take them off, great, if you can't, I'll come by and do it myself, how's that. thanks for attending to him, you're great!!!

:cool:

Kill her with cheerfulness.

There are somepeople in the world who love to have the people around them on the edge of their seats worrying about whether or not they just did something wrong and second guessing themselves. Sounds to me like your future MIL is just that sort. Disengage by not getting wound up about her. Do your best, if its not good enough for her, let her stew about it and be extra cheerful and friendly. Good Luck

I'd love to be able to do that... change blankets all the time. But, unfortunately my work schedule doesn't allow for that. I've got a funky schedule where I'm either working 12-7, 10-7, 1-7, 2-7, 8-12, 8-5, 8-1 or 8-2. Nice, huh? Needless to say, the days that I'm working until 7, I can't get to the barn. It's an hour one way in decent weather. It's winter now and the roads are getting crappier. So I only go to the barn if I start late or get off early.

I'd love to kill her (not literally) with kindness. But my "feathers" get ruffled easily. I think the only thing I can do is not blanket him like I'd prefer to do and just hope that he (a) stays warm enough and (b) doesn't sweat if it gets warmer then predicted.

I'm mad at myself for not getting out to the barn before I got that phone call on Saturday. I don't think she would have called me out like she did if I had a chance to change Gus to something more suitable for the warmer weather. It's just hard to predict what the weather will do and I thought he'd be fine. I honestly think he was, she just felt the need to complain.

Question: Is it bad if you feel some dampness on top of a blanket, but the horse is dry underneath? Or, to flip that a bit, if the horse's neck (and only neck) is damp (cooler to the touch, hard to tell if damp from moisture or just cold) but the body is nice and warm (but not hot) is that okay? Or would that tell you that the horse had been sweating?

[Fharoah]

Question: Is it bad if you feel some dampness on top of a blanket, but the horse is dry underneath? Or, to flip that a bit, if the horse's neck (and only neck) is damp (cooler to the touch, hard to tell if damp from moisture or just cold) but the body is nice and warm (but not hot) is that okay? Or would that tell you that the horse had been sweating?[/QUOTE]

I think this is why some people don't like blankets. Where I live the temperature fluctuates all the time. Right now it is snowing and 32' and has been down into the 20's outside a he has been able to wear his 440 thinsilite I keep close eye he never sweats and just seems cozy. My other horses have a 300 and 220 thinsilite on right now. By Friday it will be 50F where I live and I will likely have my horses blanket off during the day and his 220 polygram or rain sheet on at night.

If a horse sweat during the day then the temperature drops at night they can catch a chill risking pneumonia. I love blanketing but you do have to be careful with fluctuating temperatures.

Good Luck!

[Pat Ness]

Appychick - it was a bit warmer on Saturday - but my horses with their heavy blankets on and one with a pretty heavy coat did not sweat. There was a strong wind that developed and the temp was only 30 degrees. If Gus was sweating - maybe Cushings?

[mickeydoodle]

Appychick, did you read the thread about the -35degree weather. If your horse has a thick coat, and has shelter available, he can probably be without any cover.

[appychik]

Appychick - it was a bit warmer on Saturday - but my horses with their heavy blankets on and one with a pretty heavy coat did not sweat. There was a strong wind that developed and the temp was only 30 degrees. If Gus was sweating - maybe Cushings?

He's IR... last year he did not test positive for Cushings, but has always had a funky coat in the winter (and typically body clipped). I'll be retesting him again come Jan/Feb to see if he's still negative.

He should've been fine, but... I agree with the BO that he was overdressed for that weather. He's got a good wind break and shelter, so it's actually quite comfortable out in his pasture for the most part. He should be fine now with just his Dover blanket on for the time being until I can figure out exactly what to do.

Anyways, it does make me wonder about Cushings as a possibility. Never thought about that. But, lots of things with him have changed in the past year... and who knows what would trigger the Cushings?

[appychik]

Appychick, did you read the thread about the -35degree weather. If your horse has a thick coat, and has shelter available, he can probably be without any cover.

I read parts of it. But I don't think that Gus should be without a blanket in MN, least not this winter. Like I've mentioned before, he's underweight and this is his first winter "wintering out" 24/7 in MN. He's lived here nearly his whole life (minus the 3 years in N. GA while I was in college) and has been blanketed for half of his life (10 years... he'll be 20 in January). I don't feel comfortable throwing him to the wolves (theoretically) and leaving him naked this first winter out... especially since Gringo won't always allow him in the shelter. JMO.

[Hampton Bay]

Moisture on the outside of the sheet/blanket is no big deal. It's not against the horse, and as long as the sheet is waterproof, it won't seep through to be against the horse. That is the whole point of a waterproof turnout, to keep the moisture off the horse.

Heck, they can get the sheet wet on the outside just by rolling in the snow or on damp grass.

And you are not going to convince your MIL that blanketing is not evil. She's had horses for how long now, and she doesn't blanket them? It's just not going to happen. If she saw that the outside of the blanket was damp, then she probably doesn't understand that the blankets are waterproof. And if she thought the inside was damp, she might have felt the heat from his body and just thought it felt humid. But don't think that you, as a 25-ish year old woman, is going to convince her that blanketing is just fine. You're either going to have to learn to live with her outbursts, or you're going to have to stop blanketing your horse.

Any time you board your horses, especially with family as a low-cost favor, you are going to have to deal with how they want things done. I board a mare for a friend, and it's a good thing we have similar ideas on horsekeeping. Because if I had to go to great lengths to care for just her horse, every single day, it would probably sour me to the whole situation. And I do love her mare, and the mare is easy to care for, has no special needs that would become a drain on me. But my friend also would not expect me to rearrange my life just to keep her horse. Nor should your MIL have to rearrange her life and beliefs to care for your horse.

That being said, I prefer to blanket them when it's cold because then I don't have to feed them 87 tons of hay just so they can stay warm. Of course they still get a good amount, but they are using those calories toward putting on muscle, or being ridden, or growing, or whatever instead of using them to keep warm. It's a simple input vs. output thing. If they are using calories to stay warm, those calories are not available for other bodily functions. So you either feed more calories, or the body does not function as well. Some people prefer to feed more. Some prefer to just let them deal with it. I prefer to put on a blanket and save that money. Plus my filly loves her blanket. She will stick her nose into it.

[MistyBlue]

On the days you work until 7 pm, is it possible to go out to the barn in the morning before work? Looks like your days then don't start until 10 am to noon, plenty of time to shoot out in the morning and then go to work afterwards if there are any other extenuating circumstances.
The problem with blanketing in a barn that will not do blanket changes is that then the owner needs to get out there for weather changes. Even if it means driving out past 7 pm or going oout in the morning. Or else offer more money for the blanket changes if the board is that inexpensive.

[appychik]

Hampton Bay -

You're dead on about the moisture thing. I'm thinking what she assumes as moisture/dampness is really just the warmth that is generated by being blanketed. I already mentioned that if there's moisture on top of the blanket, then the blanket is doing its job. After all... the moisture is escaping out and keeping him dry, that's what its supposed to do.

The rest of your post made a lot of sense. I'm not going to be able to change her opinion, but I can hope that she'll see my reasoning behind blanketing Gus.

Now, to just make my reasons justifable. Do these reasons sound "good enough"?

I wish to blanket Gus because:
(a) he's a hard keeper and yes he needs more calories, but he also needs a blanket so the increase in caloric intake will not only go towards keeping him warm, but keeping weight (or increasing weight, in his case) on.
(b) because it's what he is used to. It may be a stupid reason, but for the last ten years he's relied on his blankets. Don't horses somehow remember that they get blanketed from year to year? And, I think he likes them. She says he couldn't possibly have an opinion, either way, but out of faithfulness to me, he'll accept the blankets.

I think that (b) is probably the least scientific reason for blanketing, but honestly... I'm not going to change my mind about not blanketing Gus this year. She can just say "I told you so" this spring if his weight is down. But, if he can't/won't gain weight, I'll have the vet out to re-evaluate things.

MistyBlue -

Yea, the days I don't start til later, I could get up and get to the barn. But again, it's a 2hr round trip... and I need to be at work 15min prior to the start of my shift. And, I take about 1hr 15min to get ready in the mornings (includes: showering, eating breakfast, getting ready and catching a brief weather report ;)). So, should I go to the barn on days that I don't go in until 10a, that means getting up by 6a or thereabouts. Which is entirely doable...

But, my costs will also go up too. It's 50 miles one way, so 100 miles round trip. I only get 250 miles on a full tank right now (sucky SUV hog) in the winter, which means about 2 1/2 trips to the barn. I can't afford to go every day or even every other because gas is too dang expensive (nearly $40/tank currently).

And, MIL, even if I pay, won't do blanket changes. My old BO never did and it wasn't ever an issue. Just don't understand why it's such an issue with her. Well, I guess I do understand, I just can't understand why she won't see my side of things too. And that I'm doing what I think is best for Gus.

[cloudyandcallie]

After your other thread about your boyfriend and his mother and the blanketing issue, isn't the mother still the BO?

And are they still jerking you around because she doesn't like horses blanketed?

I think you and your horses are not in the best situation. I know you wanted the 2 horses together after having them at separate barns, but the control issue that your boyfriend's mother is exerting, and your boyfriend's going along with her, isn't healthy for you or your horses.

I know you are doing your best, but as people said on your old thread, best to get your horses moved to where the BO approves of blanketing.

I didn't know they made blankets over 300g fill! But as people have posted, some are more breathable than others. My weatherbeeta takas in light and medium made C&C sweat, whereas the old heavy rambo wug pluses didn't make C&C sweat ever. So I've gone back to Rambo this year.

I'm hoping that your horses are doing fine in their blankets and that cold weather.

[WNT]

Not a very helpful comment, but I pretty sure a horse loses more calories to shivering than sweating. I certainly may be wrong, but I completely agree with you that letting him use what calories he is getting to putting on weight is worth the time invested in keeping him comfortably blanketed. Five minutes of my time changing a blanket is cheaper than an extra bale of hay a day...

[Hampton Bay]

The moisture on the outside of the blanket isn't going to be due to the blanket wicking moisture. That moisture will go through the lining and out, not through the top layer of waterproof fabric. If the outside is wet, he either rolled in something wet, got rained on, or the blanket isn't waterproof and he is absolutely soaked on the inside. My guess is he rolled on damp ground.

And no, I don't think your reasons are going to convince her. Probably the only thing that would convince her is saying that she can either put up with your blanketing him as you see fit, or she can pay for the extra feed to keep him from dropping weight in the winter, as he has in the past. Probably won't go over well, but that's probably what it's going to take.

And some horses really do like their blankets. My filly comes up from the pasture when she sees blankets, and she sticks her nose into the opening of the blanket. The two mares do not enjoy them, but they also are weenies who hate to be cold. The gelding couldn't care less. But the filly LOVE them.

[appychik]

Hampton Bay - That moisture comment makes more sense. It's a Monday and I'm being blonde at the moment.

I'm already paying an extra $50/mo for the boys for winter. It's supposed to be "applied" to the electrical bill, as they have a trough de-icer, and those supposed rack up an extra $60/each (so she says... I would think perhaps an extra $60/mo total, but what do I know?).

They do get extra hay when it's really cold, aka near zero or below. Otherwise, they are just splitting a bale/day. Bales probably weight around 50-60lbs. I don't think there is any way she can feed Gus extra, all by himself.

Anyways, I've come up with my "reason". It's set in stone... even ran it by my mom :winkgrin:.

Reason is this:

I want Gus to be blanketed this winter because he is an older, arthritic horse who has a hard time adjusting to colder weather. He is also underweight, as stated by the vet in September, and the amount of food being fed is not enough to both keep him warm and allow him to gain the weight he needs. Therefore, I wish to keep blanketing him so that at least I know he'll be warm and that extra calories/energy can be converted to more muscle/fat.

I'm sure THAT reason won't work for her, but you know what? That's the best I can give her. And it should be sufficient. Like I told my mom earlier today... if I had listened to everyone who had told me what to do with my horse(s), I'd be down to ZERO horses, or at least I'd have a brand new one. I can't tell you how many times I've been told to put either one down. I didn't heed that advice then and I don't think I will now (least her advice).

Oh well. I think I have my answers. I thank everyone for all their advice/input. I'm sure this will not be the end of this... but I'm hoping she'll move on. I know I'd like to.

[myrna]

It's not going to kill him to be a little warm.The days are shorter and the cooler nites are longer.Just thank the BO for her concern and continue as you are.You are doing the best that you can do for YOUR horse.

[Hampton Bay]

You could always use the "well bless your heart for caring about him so much, but he just gets soooo stiff when he gets cold"

[MistyBlue]

Ask your vet for a note maybe? A note stating his physical issues, his required feed amounts and whether or not a blanket is recommended by the vet for keeping calories on the horse.

[Fharoah]

I can sympathise with you I like my horses to be cozy. It is 33 degree and wet snow right now and my boy has his warm blanket on. I like to blanket most of the year, I would rather less coat. I think if I was in your situation I would want to change barns because I would want my horses blanketed and would not want try and justify to the BO. It appears you have a good situation you are just going to have to politely agree to disagree or you are just going to have to put him out with good shelter and lots of callories. I don't' think I could be at odds with barn operater I always respect them so would either respect there believes very politely move on.

I hope everything works out for you and your horses!

[Pat Ness]

I'm already paying an extra $50/mo for the boys for winter. It's supposed to be "applied" to the electrical bill, as they have a trough de-icer, and those supposed rack up an extra $60/each (so she says... I would think perhaps an extra $60/mo total, but what do I know?).

Does she not use a tank de-icer for her horses or are your horses in their own area? I am sure you have that listed somewhere but I can't remember.

In Minnesota - having heated water is not an option it is a law so I am hoping she has her water heated for her other horses too.

[appychik]

Does she not use a tank de-icer for her horses or are your horses in their own area? I am sure you have that listed somewhere but I can't remember.

In Minnesota - having heated water is not an option it is a law so I am hoping she has her water heated for her other horses too.

All horses have access (her's included) to fresh, errr cold water. Water is always frost-free (troughs are insulated and have the de-icers... water is not heated, but probably a balmy 35ish degrees). My horses are drinking plenty of water (enough that she's complained about that, but that's a whole 'nother story ;)).

And MistyBlue-

I did get a "letter" from my vet. :D I sent her an email Sunday night... here's her response:

As for Gus, I would be willing to bet that if you DON'T blanket him, he will lose more weight. Being underweight already, he has no reserves, and if he gets cold and starts shivering, it will only cause him to use energy. The other argument is that he's a light color, and those horses do not absorb the sun's heat like darker horses do. I regularly tell people to blanket older, underweight, or light colored horses (and my sissy thoroughbreds!) to help them maintain during the winter. Given that he's used to it, at his age I wouldn't change it on him!

I printed her response along with my original email off... I'll be showing that to her also.

Anyways, I THANK EVERYONE for their insight/opinions/etc. I really do appreciate it. I think I really just needed some reassurance/hand-holding to know that I'm doing right by Gus. I know I am, deep down, but it's hard for me to be rational when I'm so upset by someone telling me I'm all wrong. I'm not going to stop blanketing Gus. I'll just not blanket as heavily this year as I normally would. All I can hope is that she'll accept that compromise and move on. I know that I plan on moving on from this issue. I have enough stress in my life to not have this added also.

[AnotherRound]

Glad to hear you're sorting through it all, and that vet note was a brilliant idea, considering your "BO". (Honestly, complaining your horses drink too much water? Puhleese.). Hope things level out.

[AnotherRound]

Boy, Appychik, I really really wish you would find another place for your horses. I know how hard it is, but krikey, its really really hard having your horses so far away AND having them managed by your MIL with her control issues and lack of support from the BF. That's a really emotionally abusive situation for you to address all the time, and I personally feel that not only you, but your horses aren't as happy as they could be, and they could be better cared for. I kow your'e jumping through hoops for them, but honestly, you don't have to!

I really really hope you will be kind to yourself and at least start looking, and keeping your eyes open for a closer, better place and detach yourself from your MIL. she may continue to treat you like this if you removed your horses from her place, but at least your horses won't be victimized by her any longer. Its like living with an abusive husband. Women keep doing it for years and years with myriad reasons not to leave, but really the damage done to their piece of mind but more so to the childen's (horses) well being is awful.

You shouldn't have to be hypervigilent over anticipating her abuse so you can head it off in time. Don't chastize yourself for not getting to this matter before she jumped all over it. Believe me, you won't be able to win that one, she is emotionally invested in shaming you, emotionally invested in belittling you, and emotionally invested in marginalizing you. She's probably taught that behaviour to the rest of her family, too.

I hope you are able to take control of your life and your horses soon. Meanwhile, good for you for being so careful about them and working so hard for them.

GOod luck.

[Equino]

Speaking from a barn manager's perspective that has been in the same shoes...perhaps you are overblanketing. You say he has not been body clipped and has a thick coat. He most likely could get by just fine without blankets and here he is with the liner and blanket and neck cover. I 100% understand you are just trying to do right by your horse, but you may be "humanizing" him a bit. Yes, we pile on the clothes and fleeces and all when the temps drop but horses have the ability to adapt to their environmental conditions if left alone. Chances are he is just fine being naked. I like to blanket the hard keepers, which Gus sounds like, so that they don't have to burn extra calories, but the easy keepers are fine without blankets. I personally prefer to throw extra hay than put an extra blanket on. Obviously if I had a horse shivering in the cold temps, that's a different story, but luckily for me, I have not encountered one! I have had 24/7 retirees, brand new to that situation, and they came through just fine. Granted I am in NY and not MN! But I would think if he has been living there for more than a couple of years, his body should adapt.

When I need to blanket, I always be sure to use the lesser one possible, better to be a bit too cool than too warm. I like to feel them warm to the touch without being clammy or too warm, and will adjust as needed. If you were my boarder, I would be more than happy to discuss outfits in various temps with you. I hope this isn't a case of someone just can't be bothered by blanketing or is annoyed by the fact you are even blanketing in the 1st place. Even when my boarders would layer up their horses, I would undress as needed, and then inform the owners after the fact, but all my boarders knew I really did have their horses' best interest at heart and trusted me to do what was best for them.

[appychik]

Like I've mentioned before... PRIOR to the incident last weekend, it was subzero for like 4 days straight. Gus was COLD under just a midweight, so that's why I added the liner & neck cover. In a typical winter, he'd be wearing this already... though this isn't a typical winter for him.

It, unfortunately or fortunately however you wanna look at it, got warmer then excepted on Saturday (about 10 degrees warmer) and therefore he was "had moisture accumulate". I was already planning on removing the neck cover and liner on Sunday, but had other plans for Saturday. He would've been just fine being slightly too warm for one whole day. :winkgrin:

Anyways, what happened happened. I did leave a note along with the article she was requesting from Anoka Equine. They had a nicely written article about blanketing in MN in their last quarter's newsletter. She's not a client of Anokas (I am, err my boys are ;)) but had heard from others (co-workers and other people she knows that also have horses) that I needed to read it (I had already) and that she also wanted to read it. Like I remember the article being, it's neither pro nor con blanketing. Ultimately it's the owner's choice/preference.

I also left her the note/email that my vet wrote. I know this isn't the end of things. But, I'm hoping it'll allow her to see why I'm doing what I'm doing. I'll compromise by not blanketing like I normally do... which KILLS me to do, but it's a compromise as long as she'll drop the subject, to least keep the roar down to a hoarse bark.

FWIW, it was zero degrees at the barn this morning when I got there (farrier was coming out) not factoring in the windchill. Gus was cold, very cold under his blanket. NOT something I like feeling, but what can I do (besides move the boys, which like I've mentioned is not an option at this point)?

Anyways, I thank everyone for their support/concern/POV. It's appreciated. I can see (truly I can) both sides to this arguement... but ultimately it's MY horse and MY decision. Thanks again.

[subk]

I'm not going to be able to change her opinion...

I'm not going to change my mind about not blanketing Gus this year.

One of you is going to have to manage this horse in a way not exactly to their liking. If it's true that you are not paying the full rate and they are doing you a favor by keeping him, then that person should be you. If that doesn't work for you, you need to do the adult thing and move your horse.

I suspect the earlier poster who wondered if you were humanizing him too much is on to something. If you had a full coated horse double blanketed in 32° at my barn I'd be very upset with you too.

[bird4416]

However, wouldn't you think there would be some evidence of sweating an hour after it being discovered? That's what makes me wonder...



I've noticed my horses breaking a sweat sometimes when I bring them in at night and the barn temp is higher than the outside temps. This happens more often if it is a windy day. I try to get their blankets off before this happens but sometimes I'm late and they are sweating already. And to answer your question, no you can't tell they have sweated unless you actually feel the sweat. I guess if I left the blankets on and they got super sweaty, it might leave the hair matted but a light sweat leaves no marks.
I find the best way to deal with the sweating when I bring them in is to pull blankets and leave them off for about 1-2 hours and then put them back on which is a major pita.

It looks to me that your options are to underblanket or move if you want to keep the peace. Your horse should be fine with less blankets even if he needs to gain weight.

[Cloverbarley]

I live in a region where the temperatures are similar to yours and not one of my horses have a blanket on which is over 250gms. These horses range from Arabs to TBs to WBs to AQHAs. With blanketing you are really looking for something to give the horse a windbreak and to keep him dry in the snowy/icy conditions. Gus will have a good enough coat, I imagine, to keep his body temperature regulated. The one thing I do not like, and have a real bugbear about, is neck covers. By swaddling the whole horse you are not allowing it to cool itself down when needed. You can put on an extra blanket which may be a bit too hot for the day but without the neck cover the horse should be able to self regulate - with the neck cover, he will turn into an oven.

[Cloverbarley]

Gus was cold, very cold under his blanket. NOT something I like feeling, but what can I do (besides move the boys, which like I've mentioned is not an option at this point)?



Just out of interest, how/where are you checking to see whether Gus is cold? Under the blanket? :confused: Checking under a blanket is not the way to know whether a horse is cold, so forget about that. Wrap your hand around the base of his ears. If this part of his anatomy is warm, then he is.