Saddle Fit Opinion Please - Black Country Saddle

[imnotclever]

I have a beautiful Black Country saddle on trial. I wanted to get some opinions on the fit of the saddle for my horse. I'm so excited as this is the first saddle that gives him nice clearance over the withers without special saddle pads. Panels are wool flocked so it's probably sitting a bit higher than it will after riding a bit.

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks so much!

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2009-3/1337379/2118058

I apologize that the full side body shot is on a bit of a slope. It was the only covered spot at the barn (was raining) where I could get a side shot without someone there to hold him.

[BestHorses]

It's hard to tell from some of the shots, but my concern would be the spine clearance. Obviously the saddle has plenty of wither clearance. But I can't tell from the pics if the panels are too close to or touching the spine. It's one of those things you need to feel since I can't see it in the pics. When you put your hand under the pommel, are the saddle panels touching the spine or is there room on either side?

Also there's no picture from the rear without a saddle pad, so I can't tell if the gullet's wide enough for the spine from that angle either.

Do the panels feel even against the horse's back when you slide your hand under the saddle? Does it rock from side to side or front to back?

[cutemudhorse]

That was what looked off to me too. . . is there enough room on either side of the spine through the gullet? And of course do check everything else as mentioned. . .

[JB]

It would help to have all the pics without the pad. Also, some of the important pics are way too big for me to see when I click on them, but way too small to just view the small picture.

From what I can see, it's not a bad fit, but I need better pictures to tell more.

[imnotclever]

Thank you for the replies!

I updated the album with all pictures without the pad and resized them to more appropriate sizes. Sorry about that.

The saddle feels like it gives him plenty of clearance for his spine, but I'll have some other people feel it too. The panels didn't seem to be close to his spine at all.

I got to ride in it today and it felt amazing! Is it possible for a different saddle to make sitting a trot so much easier? Not sure what it was, but even my horses big moving (ooo it's cold and I've been handwalked all week long) trot was nice and easy to sit.

The saddle pad had what I imagine to a perfect sweat pattern. Perfectly dry down the spine! So exciting. I had been using shims and special pads on this horse for the last year with a different saddle and I'm really excited that this may be a good fit for him.

[Renn/aissance]

I can certainly see why you like it; it has plenty of wither clearance for him. (Your horse is very handsome, by the way, I love his type!) I would be concerned about the width of the gullet and I prefer to have a little more slope to the panels as it seems it is sitting on, not around, him a bit. I would like to see the saddle on him from a side view without the pad as it looks as though the panels do not contact his back under the cantle. I don't think it's a bad fit and certainly the panels could be modified for him if the bones of the saddle suit him.

[JB]

Ok, don't hate me, but we really need better pictures :)

We need to see, for the side and 3/4 front views both, the whole shoulder, saddle, and girth area, with the horse standing squarely on a flat, level surface. For example, the closer side shot is a weird angle and makes it look all wrong, but the full body shot makes it seem nice. The rear shot doesn't show the panels sitting on the horse's back - his butt is in the way. The 3/4 front shot doesn't show the whole saddle.

Sorry :(

My first thought is it's an ok fit. Does this have the trapezius panels at the withers? How old is the horse, what type of work has he been in, what are your goals for his work? I ask because if those are the trap panels, and his age/work is such that he's going to be developing muscle, the panels aren't going to allow it. I'd MUCH rather see regular panels, and use shims to fill in the wither hollows for now. You can then remove them as his muscle develops.

Here's a side view example (http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9da34b3127ccec68b0cd1d8c100000040O00AZtmzRs2ct2 IPbz4Q/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/) (Black Country Quantum X even :) XXW)
3/4 front view (http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9db33b3127ccec74d19e28fb900000050O00AZtmzRs2ct2 IPbz4Q/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
Different horse, different saddle, but an example of a rear view (http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d834b3127ccec70b141bd0b500000040O00AZtmzRs2ct2 IPbz4Q/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)

[Bacchus]

I am no saddle-fit expert, but the way the panels sit on the horse's shoulders looks off. Seems as if more of the panels should be touching the horse (like the saddle on the horse in the 3/4 pic above). I think someone mentioned that is seems to sit "on" the horse instead of around the horse, and that's about it.

The panels should follow the form/shape of the shoulders. Seems as if you are going to get pressure points there:( Maybe they can be adjusted, though.

I have a BC Vinici eventing saddle and love it. Great saddles!

[imnotclever]

I'll definitely get some better photos. This was my sad attempt at trying to get saddle fit photos while it was raining and without anybody to assist with holding the horse. I was squeezing between the crossties and trying to contort my body to get the right angles. Pretty pathetic attempt I'll admit! ;)

The horse is 17 this year and is in work 5 to 6 days a week. 2 lessons a week, 2 -3 days flatting by myself in the arena and 1 trail ride day with a good amount of hillwork. One or both lesson days include light jumping and we show at 2'3 to 2'6 hunters. I can't imagine that his work load will ever increase beyond this.

I adopted him last February in very poor shape and have watched his body transform, but I do not know if the hollows along his withers will fill in more than they have now. I've taken a series of photos to track his progress and haven't noticed any change in that area in 4-5 months. He has awful scars on his withers which leads me to believe that his large withers have been a saddle fit issue in his earlier years as well.

I have been shimming him with a wider saddle and it's very difficult to get the appropriate amount of lift off his withers without causing pressure in other areas. I've gone through the Thinline Saddle Fitter, Skito correction pads, Beval therapuetic pad, Mattes correction and Fleecworks perfect balance option pads and a variety of saddles. I haven't been terribly satisfied using any of them. I've worked with a saddle fitter to get the appropriate lift using the pads, but it leads to problems in other areas.

Thank you so much to everyone for the replies and again I apologize for the photos. I know they are difficult to work with. I'll try to get some more photos this week.

[imnotclever]

Somehow I managed to get the three quarter shot completely out of focus. Ughhh.

Updated the album though - hopefully these pictures are a bit better.

[JB]

I'm not liking the trapezius panels on him at all. It's making the fit there borderline too narrow, and it will just get worse if he builds any muscle at all, whether from more work or continued better diet.

I don't know what width this is, but I think it would probably be a good fit without the trap panels. Or, you need a larger width if you want/like the trap panels.

I'm not sure why you've had so much trouble shimming other saddles with all those pads :confused: Usually troubles like that mean the shims are used in the wrong places, or are the wrong thickness, or the saddle shape is not correct in the first place (different from width).

[JB]

Forgot to add - I like how it sits on his back when viewed from the rear :) It also appears to be the right shape front to back. But, I think the trap panels are making it a little pommel-high (ie too narrow).

[subk]

Your Black Country comes from the saddle maker with the wool flocking very soft and fluffy. My Quantum changed and settled significantly after the first few months. The dealer I worked with offered a free flocking/adjustment if you have it done in the first 6 months.

[Bacchus]

I agree with JB and what I wrote earlier -- the panels are not quite right. For the money, it should fit right everywhere;) The rest of the fit looks good, though. Maybe try the same saddle with different panels? BC is great about custom fit.

Good luck.

[imnotclever]

Thank you so much for everyone's replies. I really appreciate it!

I got to jump in the saddle today (as I was thinking of possibly just returning the one I have and trading for a standard panel), but it doesn't work for me either. Didn't seem to have the right balance for me and I struggled to stay in two point.

Any thoughts on a Passier saddle for a horse with my build? They seem to recommend them for larger withers. I'm looking at a used one with a cutback pommel. I thought I would ask around though because with all the shipping fees it's getting expensive to try saddles.

Thanks!

[JB]

imnotclever, before you give up on this particular saddle, I would REALLY want to try the saddle without the trap panels. I'm nearly convinced by these pictures that because of them the saddle is too narrow, making it tip back, which will make it very difficult for you to stay in any forward position (ie 2-pt).

Here's what I would want to try - no trap panels, 1 size wider, use either a thicker pad overall, or a pad with light shims up front.

[imnotclever]

imnotclever, before you give up on this particular saddle, I would REALLY want to try the saddle without the trap panels. I'm nearly convinced by these pictures that because of them the saddle is too narrow, making it tip back, which will make it very difficult for you to stay in any forward position (ie 2-pt).

Here's what I would want to try - no trap panels, 1 size wider, use either a thicker pad overall, or a pad with light shims up front.

Hmmm you really think so? He measures on the narrow side of a medium tree, seems like a wide would be really wide on him.

What you are saying makes perfect sense about the saddle tipping back and making it hard to stay forward.

Thanks so much for all your responses - I always appreciate your opinion.

[JB]

Yeah, I really think so :)

Do you still have this saddle? If so, do you have any shims? If so, stick whatever it takes under the rear of the saddle to level the balance *from your perspecive* For 1 short ride you aren't going to cause any damage. That's what you need to see how the correct balance makes the saddle feel for you. If you then like it, then see about getting this saddle 1) without trap panels and 2) in at least a medium tree, if not a wide. The difference between the 2 is only about 2cm - easily made up with shims. But, removing the trap panels may mean you still want a medium.

[imnotclever]

Yeah, I really think so :)

Do you still have this saddle? If so, do you have any shims? If so, stick whatever it takes under the rear of the saddle to level the balance *from your perspecive* For 1 short ride you aren't going to cause any damage. That's what you need to see how the correct balance makes the saddle feel for you. If you then like it, then see about getting this saddle 1) without trap panels and 2) in at least a medium tree, if not a wide. The difference between the 2 is only about 2cm - easily made up with shims. But, removing the trap panels may mean you still want a medium.

Again thank you so much!

I still have the saddle, so I'll try it tomorrow with a shim in the back.