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View Full Version : WWYD OTTB you sold turned up unknown lameness issues?



luvmydutch
Dec. 13, 2009, 12:31 AM
I bought an OTTB off the track last year with no PPE as he trotted out sound and really just stole my heart...and I wanted to give him a better life. I gave him a month off from track life, then re-trained him myself as a pleasure/dressage horse. He didn't seem to really like dressage to me...had some strange quirks that I chalked up to being track habits...sticking his tongue out of his mouth with ANY bit in, etc...and as I have decently high aspirations for dressage, I decided to find him a new home and buy myself a warmblood. Advertised him for $1000 and told all who looked at him that I had not had a PPE done on him nor had i ever had a lameness evaluation as he was never lame when I owned him...he just had some weird quirks which I demonstrated for perspective buyers. Horse sells, woman who buys him did not have a PPE done on the horse (i have a bill of sale with the buyer's initials on the line stating she refused a veterinary exam). 5 months after sale, i get an email that horse has a suspensory tear and the surgery is going to cost a ton of money...email seemed accusatory and threatened to send horse to auction. I cut contact with buyer. Now they have attempted to contact me via facebook, and when looking at buyer's profile, i see a whole thing about how the horse has kissing spine and is being reitred. I do not believe the horse had this issue while with me, but never had a vet out to look into it either way (he never gave me any problems). I don't really know what to do or say to this woman. I feel terrible that this horse turned out to have problems...but I genuinely didn't know of any problems with him if they were present when I owned him...i never had a PPE...but neither did she! I can't afford to support him and my own horse or i would take him back and retire him myself. I don't know what to do or what to say.

strawberry roan
Dec. 13, 2009, 07:27 AM
It is hard not to worry about the horse but....she could have done a PPE. She bought the horse knowing you hadn't had one done. Her choice. And it is 5 months down the road. She shouldn't be contacting you. Not your horse anymore. Don't worry about it. :)

buschkn
Dec. 13, 2009, 08:47 AM
You don't need to DO anything. It is a shame it happened but its not your fault. Any horse can develop problems at any time. She tried the horse, bought him CHEAP, declined a PPE. You can offer condolences that the nice horse you both love has developed problems, but you did nothing wrong and have no responsibility to her or the horse at this point.

shawneeAcres
Dec. 13, 2009, 08:53 AM
I agree with the other posters, it was her responsibility to do a PPE and she declined. All of my horses are sold with a bill of sale that states the buyer has examined the horse to their satisfaction and buys the horse as-is. This sort of things happens, none of us has a crystal ball to know the future, nor do we have xray vision to know what is going on inside the horse.

Ajierene
Dec. 13, 2009, 09:16 AM
If the horse came up lane within a few weeks of being purchased from me, I would do what I can to make sure it was not something that I should have known about, that occurred while the horse was under my care.

We are talking about 5 months after the fact and a suspensory injury is likely a pasture accident. Kissing Spine is also something some vets diagnose readily. Similar to a vet in my area that diagnosed almost everything as EPM....the issue of choice for her vet may be Kissing Spine.

luvmydutch
Dec. 13, 2009, 09:21 AM
Yeah, I know you guys are right. How was I supposed to know any of these things were wrong with him? I feel like when you buy anything you must do your "due diligence" in making sure the thing you are buying is going to be appropriate for whatever it is you'll be doing with it. I just bought a used truck and had it inspected by the dealership before buying it...so i know exactly what i'm getting into. It is still heartbreaking to hear that this horse I loved has got so many problems but I really am helpless at this point to do anything for either him or the women (there are 2 of them) that bought him...and they keep trying to contact me about the situation although now the sale occurred 9 months ago.

luvmydutch
Dec. 13, 2009, 09:24 AM
Aljerene...that's exactly what I thought!! This horse did not display ANY symptoms of kissing spine when I owned him. I was absolutely dumbfounded when I saw this whole story about how he was being retired due to kissing spine. I have also read that kissing spine (if he even has it) can be treatable with injectables and the horse can go on to at least still be ridden. The women who own him are in their 40's, both have good jobs at a hospital and should be able to readily afford any treatment for him. i'm in my 20's, don't own my horse with anyone else, and i don't have money coming out of my butt...i don't understand why they think i'm going to give them money for any of this or take him back!

Laurierace
Dec. 13, 2009, 09:41 AM
I personally will take back any horse that I am connected with whether the horse was originally mine or an owners that I trained for. If I didn't have the money to fix them so they could be rehomed I would put them down rather than risk them getting sent to slaughter. Obviously I don't have to do any of that just like you don't have to do anything regarding this horse but it makes me feel better to be their last line of defense.

luvmydutch
Dec. 13, 2009, 09:47 AM
I can't say it would make me feel any better to take him back and kill him when he's only 6 years old. I am sure there is someone out there willing to take him for free knowing that he will need to have his spine injected for riding purposes....i hope

Laurierace
Dec. 13, 2009, 09:55 AM
Well if they send him to the auction he will be killed in an awful manner, better he die in a peaceful manner in my opinion. But killing him isn't the only option obviously, just the last line of defense from the meat men if it comes to that.

caryledee
Dec. 13, 2009, 09:58 AM
Sorry this happened to you!

Have to agree with Laurie on this one. You don't owe the buyers anything since they declined a PPE and had the horse for 5 months, BUT if you care about what happens to the horse, you should take him back. Otherwise, you have no control over what happens to him down the line. People are giving away young sound OTTBs left and right now; a horse with issues could easily fall into the wrong hands.

Yes, it would be sad to put a 6 year old horse down, but in the end we have to think of what is best for the horse and not how it makes us (as sellers) feel. If a suitable home could not be found, euthanasia is a better option than the unknown.

Guilherme
Dec. 13, 2009, 10:03 AM
It's not your fault. You have no responsibility.

If you want to assume responsibility then that's your personal choice. You get to assume whatever emotional and financial burdens you want.

But I'd leave the cord cut and go on about my life.

G.

enjoytheride
Dec. 13, 2009, 10:06 AM
I don't think blaming the original owner because they aren't in a position to take back a sold horse is fair.

Selling and buying horses come with risks and after a horse leaves your hands it is out of your hands. Not everyone can take back every single horse they ever owned and not everyone should. Some people seem to think they are responsible for any horse that comes through their barn for the rest of that horse's life and that is fine for them. However, these can lead people down the road of never selling a single horse they own or bred and this isn't doable for many.

As buyers we can't simply give back a horse when we don't want it and the seller shouldn't be guilted or responsible. It's great to be sympathetic and a caring horse person but you have to draw the line somewhere.

I think the OP can do one of two things, take the horse back and hope a vet will put it down and if not sell her current horse and not ride until that horse dies; or tell the owner it's their problem now. Neither choice makes you a bad owner.

Bogie
Dec. 13, 2009, 10:24 AM
You don't owe the buyer anything. She chose not to have a PPE. WHY do people not have PPEs, especially on horses that have come off the track??? :eek:

Okay, now you know my stand on PPEs ;);).

What you do depends on how you feel about this horse.

I've dealt with the problem in two ways.

First, owned a horse (Bogie) for 4-5 years that I really loved. I sold him when he was about 18 to a family whose daughter had leased him for 4 months from me and moved out of state.

Two months after I sold him he was lame (I kept in touch with the BO). They had his hocks injected and he stayed lame. I offered to take him back because I loved this horse. They gave him to me (no money exchanged hands). I didn't want to bring him to my new home (much more expensive to board) so I had my trainer put him back to work slowly and carefully. He was sound within a month and I found him another home on a permanent free lease where he lived out his life in comfort. I can speculate as to why he was lame for her but stayed sound for the new owner but mostly I was glad he found an appropriate home.

On the flip side, I had an OTTB who had real stifle issues -- no arthritis but the stifle did cause lameness. I knew about it when I took him, had discussed it with his vet and thought he might have a chance as he grew up if his stifles were strengthened. I had the top vet in the area evaluate him, tried all the strengthening exercises, etc. I had him for almost a year and came to the conclusion that he would never hold up under the type of job I wanted him to perform.

I sold him for a pittance but I required a stream of references. I released all his medical records and encouraged prospective buyers to talk to my vet. I found someone who fit the bill, sold him and never looked back. I felt like I had done my best for him.

Good luck!

luvmydutch
Dec. 13, 2009, 10:32 AM
If I had the money to take this horse back and sit on him until an appropriate home was found...I would take on the burden. For me ... another $500 a month would bury me and I wouldn't be able to pay my bills. I can't do that to my boyfriend who already helps me out enough to support my horse. These women who own this horse are in a much better position to do the right thing for him than I am. I just can't see risking losing my home and my boyfriend for an animal :(

CatOnLap
Dec. 13, 2009, 12:17 PM
5 months later? your purchaser is an asshat. Ignore it completely and take the high road unless you see something from a lawyer, then pay the $200 to have another lawyer answer. If it ever got to court, you would win. You have done nothing wrong if it is all as you state here.

The actions of the buyer will be clear to anyone else who is in the wrong here. But good on you for being worried and caring.

Bogie
Dec. 13, 2009, 12:21 PM
There is no need for you to take a horse back after 5 months.



If I had the money to take this horse back and sit on him until an appropriate home was found...I would take on the burden. For me ... another $500 a month would bury me and I wouldn't be able to pay my bills. I can't do that to my boyfriend who already helps me out enough to support my horse. These women who own this horse are in a much better position to do the right thing for him than I am. I just can't see risking losing my home and my boyfriend for an animal :(

luvmydutch
Dec. 13, 2009, 03:30 PM
It has actually now been 9 MONTHS!! And she has been riding him and having fun with him since she bought him according to her facebook page. I would welcome her to take me to court and would invite her to subpoena veterinary records in my name from every veterinarian in New England. She will not find a single veterinary record for this horse relating to any of these injuries (or any injuries for that matter). I released all of his veterinary records to her when she bought him...the only event to note he had while with me was a nasty hot-nailing incident and I gave her the write up from the vet along with the cd of the x-rays taken of all 4 of his feet. I honestly did the best I could by this woman. I don't think i'll ever allow someone to buy a horse from me without a PPE again...it's not worth the hassle down the line if the horse has an unknown issue...and i'm not the kind of person who would want to keep these things from someone. The horse world is small and the last thing i want people to think about me is that i am dishonest. I wish I had known these conditions existed (if they did) when I sold him...i didn't exactly sell him for alot of money...i just sold him for what i paid for him straight off the track!!

Penthilisea
Dec. 13, 2009, 08:12 PM
Perhaps you could contact them and explain that he never showed the signs of any of these issues while you owner him, but your understanding is that they are very treatable, and you can reccomend a vet if they need.

lolalola
Dec. 13, 2009, 11:10 PM
Why don't you ask the woman why she would send him to auction rather than put him down if he is unusable? And let her "friends" on Facebook know about her decision to ship him off to auction and probably slaughter.

Twentymetercircle
Dec. 13, 2009, 11:17 PM
I personally will take back any horse that I am connected with whether the horse was originally mine or an owners that I trained for. If I didn't have the money to fix them so they could be rehomed I would put them down rather than risk them getting sent to slaughter. Obviously I don't have to do any of that just like you don't have to do anything regarding this horse but it makes me feel better to be their last line of defense.

Too bad there isn't a "standing ovation" smiley available, because I would give you one for sure!! :yes:

TBrescue
Dec. 13, 2009, 11:30 PM
to "fix" him. That's the bottom line. He's a nice horse, but a very sensitive TB and he has definitely had some issues since they bought him...some were the vet's "lameness of choice" and I think the KS is right on the $$$.

I also think he may have had the issue when Luvmydutch owned him, BUT in her defense, at the time it appeared to be a training issue and not a soundness one.
Remember the bucking at the canter??? anyways, that's neither here nor there...the bottom line is the current owners were looking for a resale project and don't want to sink any more $$$ into the horse. They say they're looking for a retirement home...I sincerely hope they wouldn't send him to auction. He's a very nice horse...just needs some maintenance to be sound.

Heaven knows I've spent enough $$$ on my rescued TB getting him sound....but that's another story.

I don't think you should feel guilty because you can't take him back....they bought him without a PPE. Buyer beware, especially with the OTTB.

luvmydutch
Dec. 14, 2009, 06:23 AM
Thanks TB...I agree buyer beware...but i never realized the full extent of what that means before this situation came to fruition. You're absolutely right when you say he had issues that I chalked up to training behaviors. Remember the time he bucked when I was asking him to canter and I hopped off and scared your guy into orbit in the process? I honestly had no idea he had anything physically wrong with him and I just feel terrible about it. :( This is so not something I would have done to someone intentionally and the fact that there is nothing I can do to help makes me feel even worse about the situation.

luvmydutch
Dec. 14, 2009, 06:23 AM
Also, the last email I received from the buyer did threaten to send him to auction, and I hope for his sake that would be a last resort.

luvmydutch
Dec. 14, 2009, 06:31 AM
When she contacted me that he had a suspensory injury 4 months ago, I felt awful about it so I talked to all my horsie friends and found someone willing to give him a forever home...who was so ready she had her trailer all packed up and ready to go. It's not like i was just like whatever..your problem now. I offered this to the buyer and she never responded to me about it. The woman would probably STILL take him in a heartbeat if buyer wanted to give him away. I would STILL help her find him a forever home if she wanted the help...but that's the best I could ofer her.
Furthermore... I would also like to add that the fact that he bucked at the canter was disclosed to the buyer TB when she bought him...she obviously wasn't anymore worried about it than I was...AND I made her sit and watch me ride him because I wanted her to see how he would open his mouth and do weird things with the bit in his mouth because I wanted her to see exactly what she was getting into...she was not any more concerned than I was that his behavioral issues were related to something worse. I told her he was stiff to one side, which again, i chalked up to his life on the track...and I made her watch me lunge him, and she didn't seem any more concerned about it than I did. She went and lunged him when i wasn't there, she had plenty of opportunities to see him move and ride him, watch me ride him, lunge him and I think I even lunged him for her. I didn't hide a single thing from her. Of course any OTTB is going to have weird quirks and random issues or joint pain. This was a lesson for us all...but I really don't feel like I could have done anything more for her to let her know this beforehand, and I hope she knows that. I am not a professional, I do not have x-ray vision, i am not a veterinarian, and I hope the buyer realizes all of these things...and although i'm sure she is upset nonetheless, I would never have unloaded such a problem on anyone if I had known the extent to which racing destroyed him. These issues also weren't disclosed to me when I bought him either which is why I too should have had a PPE done...but he is so handsome and he trotted out perfectly sound (in my unprofessional opinion).

Bluey
Dec. 14, 2009, 07:14 AM
I sold a horse to a fellow far away, that misrepresented himself as a feedlot cowboy.
The horse was very gentle and very well trained for a cowhorse, won at several ranch horse competitions, but tended to be reactive and get hot easily, it was the way he was bred, so you had to ride him calmly, not get wild on him.

Three months later he called that the horse was lame.
I have had people take advantage of my guarantee that I will take the horse back if he is not suitable, but within a month, not three and now lame.:(
Still, I knew by then that, for the horse's sake, I needed to tend to him, even if the fellow was dishonest.

I found out then that he worked for the UPS system and had the horse all that time stuck in a little mudhole of a stall and pen in town, fed him much and didn't do anything with him.
The poor horse had terrible feet and was wanting out of there so bad.:no:

I got him back, he had an abcess that, when resolved, he was fine again and I sold him to a weekend cowboy, that has since won plenty of him as a roping horse and uses him for a family horse and to trail ride.

Another horse I sold to some local family to trail ride, the lady six months later was diagnosed with cancer and they needed to let the horse go, so I bought him back and later resold him to another family.
Now they had taken very good care of him, he even had spent the winter blanketed, something I know was a first for him.:)

Moral of this story, some times, you have to take a horse back to insure that the horse doesn't fall thru the cracks.
I understand that the OP can't take the horse back in her current situation, but I think that we need to add to our concern when selling a horse that some may at times still need our help, if we are where we can provide it.

I do think that asking the seller in this situation to take the horse back is understandable, but not really sensible.
I wonder where the horse will end up...

luvmydutch
Dec. 14, 2009, 07:15 AM
And I just sent the woman who was interested in taking him an email to see if she is still interested just in case buyer needs the option.

luvmydutch
Dec. 14, 2009, 07:17 AM
When she contacted me that he had a suspensory injury 4 months ago, I felt awful about it so I talked to all my horsie friends and found someone willing to give him a forever home...who was so ready she had her trailer all packed up and ready to go. It's not like i was just like whatever..your problem now. I offered this to the buyer and she never responded to me about it.

I don't really know what more could be asked of me honestly.

caryledee
Dec. 14, 2009, 07:32 AM
luvmydutch--You started this thread to make sure you were "off the hook" because a horse you had sold later developed soundness issues. Everyone who has responsed is in agreement; you don't owe the buyer anything! She took the risk when she bought the horse without a PPE.

However, I think the real question is can you live with it if she makes good on her threat and sends the horse off to an auction? If you can, then move on. If not, then take some sort of further action such as finding another home for him or taking him back and euthanizing him. It really doesn't matter if she has tons of money and you don't. Its a matter of who really cares about this horse and who is willing to do the right thing for him.

Maybe you could at least contact her and find out how she wants this situation to be rectified??

TBrescue
Dec. 14, 2009, 08:16 AM
LMD, I don't think you did anything wrong. You were looking to sell your TB because you had already bought another horse and couldn't afford to support both. Your buyer could have done a ppe, but she chose not to, she was looking for a relatively quick, inexpensive resale project and you had already started retraining him.

I was just saying I think the issue was there even when you had him, but we ALL thought it was a training issue and not physical. I clearly remember the day you almost got me dumped :)

Its sad for me, because I really like this horse...and I do worry about where he will end up. I sometimes worry about where MY horse would end up if I couldn't afford him any more. I don't know if she will send him to auction or not....I'd like to think that her partner in the horse is too kind to allow that to happen, but the primary owner sees her horses as an investment.

I don't think you are obligated to take him back...you have moved on to another horse and it has been almost a year. I just hope she does the right thing for him.

You know if he were mine I'd spend the $$$ to"fix" him, but that's just my way of doing things.

luvmydutch
Dec. 14, 2009, 08:17 AM
Well i'm sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place because I can't take him back. I do know of someone who may be willing to take him...I will contact the owner when I hear back from that person

judybigredpony
Dec. 14, 2009, 09:00 AM
You did all the Right things when you sold the horse.

I highly doubt a suspensory ligament injury of that magnitude was on the horse when you sold him Or else he would have been lame to some degree for you.

The Kissing Spine evaluation, Does she have cooberating x-rays as proof posistive?? Or is it the diagnosis Du jour??

Do not let some posters guilt you into taking a horse back 9 months after the sale. You sold the horse for a reason, he is not a child you adopted out @ birth.

Also do not assume he will end up in a killer pen dying a horrible death...Jeez...this is also the quilt trip du Juor.

Firmly tell buyer to stop harrasing you. She bought horse fair and square, declined a PPE and signed off to that effect.

I love every horse I sell, I care where they go and who buys them. I love to know if they re-sell and where they end up. On occassion I have taken back in a horse or 2 and helped buyer re-sell horse when they did not get along or they had financial set-backs. I also have "placed" horses I felt it was not fair to sell to someone or sound enough into forever homes.

It is the buyers responsibilety to do right by the horse at this juncture not yours.
Do not get quilted into a situation, iif you are deeply concerned tell them to make a posting on Giveaway board to re-home has a companion ot donate him to a vet school??

Sabovee
Dec. 14, 2009, 09:01 AM
Although I agree with the above posters who say it isn't your fault - you aren't a vet and neither of you got a PPE done, it's her responsibility as the buyer to assure he's sound and suitable for what she has in mind for him - I disagree that it is no longer your responsibility.

My feeling is, that I have a responsibility to EVERY horse I sell, no matter how long ago it was. If I was a part of their life it's my responsibility to make sure they stay out of harms way. But that's just me. I personally would take him back and either euth him (if it's that bad) or rehome him in a companion home. I have the luxury of having my own place, so keeping him myself would be an option but I understand that it isn't for most people.

Every horse I sell goes with a first right of refusal and a "they have a home here no matter what" clause. By taking a horse on to sell I feel I take on the responsibility to try my utmost to assure they always have a safe place to land.

If you have a friend who is willing to take him I'd be calling the owner and offering that - maybe even offering her a bit of money to take him might persuade her. Not offering to buy him back at the sale price, but throwing a few hundred her way might insure she makes the right choice - just a thought, not sure if it's an option for you or not.

It's your responsibility to do right by the horses that come through your life. JMO. :)

FlashGordon
Dec. 14, 2009, 09:20 AM
I have a real issue with these situations.

Yes we all talk about how we need to protect buyers. But buyers need to protect themselves.

It is completely unfair and absolutely ridiculous to go back to a seller, months later, and accuse the seller of being dishonest, or wanting the seller to clean up whatever mess has been made of the horse.

When do buyers have to become accountable?!?

If the OP/seller is in a position to take the horse back, and wants to take the horse back, then so be it. But christ almighty does the current owner not owe the horse something?!

If you don't do a PPE, and you don't do your homework, and you don't cover your own ass when you buy... and even if you do... sh!t happens. Even with the most honest seller, and most thorough buyer, things can and will go wrong. I've been on both sides of this equation so I get what both parties are dealing with but come on people....

Buyers need to put on their big girl pants, accept it, and deal.

Ok RANT OVER.

AnotherRound
Dec. 14, 2009, 09:35 AM
Well i'm sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place because I can't take him back. I do know of someone who may be willing to take him...I will contact the owner when I hear back from that person

LIke one of the above posters asked, don't you think you ought to ask the owner what it is she really wants, why she keeps emailing you about it, and what she wants from you? She may be just venting. She may want you to take the horse. She may want you to buy the horse and give her her money back. She may want to keep the horse and have you pay the vet bills. She may just want to kvetch to somebodty about it because it makes her look good and not her fault to her friends. Who knows, you don't, so ask. None of this is acceptable, and as was pointd out, none of this is your responsibiltiy, however, you don't really know exactly what she wants.

Once you know exactly what she wants from you, then you will know what to do about it, regardinbg your friend.

luvmydutch
Dec. 14, 2009, 05:59 PM
I have emailed her and put out an offer to assist in finding him a home, and someone from this thread has contacted me and generously offered to help him out using her contacts through CANTER. So far the owner has not responded to me, so I still do not know what it is she wants or what the fate of this horse will be. I'll keep you all updated. And TBRescue...your support in this matter means alot to me :)

TBrescue
Dec. 14, 2009, 08:08 PM
Just an FYI, she sent me a message about the KS diagnosis. I reminded her that all along I though he had a pain issue, and that KS does not necessarily mean he needs to be retired...unless she just doesn't want to spend the $$$ to fix him. I never heard back from her....probably b/c I didn't tell her what she wanted to hear.

luvmydutch
Dec. 14, 2009, 08:30 PM
I am utterly confused about what it is she wants out of all of this. I suspect she isn't responding because I indicated I could would help find him a giveaway home. I hope D makes it out of all of this alive...he's such a good boy and kind soul. I think if she does decide to send him to auction, his good looks could save him from the killers for at least a while...and if she has no interest in discussing other options with me I can't do anything about it. I wish I was the one to find these things out :*(

luvmydutch
Dec. 14, 2009, 08:31 PM
What do you think she wanted to hear? That the KS diagnosis was BS?

TBrescue
Dec. 14, 2009, 08:59 PM
I think she wanted me to be a guest at her pity party. The KS may or may not be BS....I tend to believe that it is an accurate diagnosis based on his behavior....his issue was always at the canter, and it was inconsistent which is why it looked like a training issue.

You know if he were mine, I'd either do the surgery or injections. He's 6, and has insurance...not like my old man that I have to pay everything out of pocket!

He is a very cute sweet boy who deserves the best care...JMHO. I don't understand people who can't or won't do whatever they can to make their horse feel better.

luvmydutch
Dec. 14, 2009, 09:04 PM
I think she wanted me to be a guest at her pity party.

I think that may be why she is trying to contact me...for a pity party or something. Hopefully it's not KS and D will go on to be the good boy I know he is.

magicteetango
Dec. 15, 2009, 06:41 PM
Sometimes buyers are drama queens, and it can be frustrating. I have someone who I deal with with a horse of mine that aggravates me at times.

My horse was on lease (well basically a giveaway with a first right of refusal) and did not work out, and I took him back no questions asked. I would've been devastated if something bad had happened to him, although I've no doubt she would've done the right thing by him.

He is very body sore, and the vet has him on some robaxin, got his feet done, and just making him feel better all around before re examining any riding issues. I already have a local trainer who is prepared to work with him for me when I am ready if I need it.

But I had a pasture to put him in, and the finances to assist him. I also had him for three years. My story is different than yours but I know how you feel.

I would ask the buyer to clarify what assistance she needs with the horse, and if she doesn't need anything, to stop contacting you. And I might mention that it is too difficult for you to hear that he isn't being treated for medical issues that came up after the sale.

It's their horse, their responsibility.

luvmydutch
Dec. 15, 2009, 09:01 PM
Yeah, she hasn't responded to any of my emails at this point...i think she was looking for a pity party. Perhaps I will let her know I am saddened that she is not tending to his medical issues and allowing him to suffer :( Life lesson...always trust your gut...i had a feeling it would go this way.

Ozone
Dec. 16, 2009, 01:22 PM
It is no longer your issue. It wasn't your issue the day the person bought your horse and signed the no PPE bill of sale. That's it.

TBrescue
Dec. 16, 2009, 10:03 PM
Ok, he's not in danger, suffering or going to auction. They got a valid KS diagnosis through X-rays from a vet who is excellent.

The current treatment is shockwave therapy and they are trying to get the injections approved through insurance. He's back working, on the lunge to build up his back muscles and it sounds like they are heading in the right direction with him.

I think the owner was overwhelmed and stressed out by this- he's been a bit of a science project since they got him, but his feet are fixed and his ulcers are healed and they are working on this issue now.

The retirement home search is a backup plan in case all else fails and he has to be a pasture pet.

Hip
Dec. 17, 2009, 02:02 AM
Oh, boy, I could tell you stories about some buyers and the cr@p they try to pull!!

There are people out there that no matter what you sell them, with everything disclosed, one real or imagined boo-boo and it's all your fault. Even months or a year down the line, as you found out.

One man that bought a good gelding from me told me later how much trouble he'd had with the gelding. I couldn't believe it was the same horse. What saved me were several friends who swore up and down that the horse had never done what the man said the horse had done. When asked to show what the horse would do wrong, the man made excuses. But I later found out, he was a cantankerous old crab who would complain about every horse he ever bought. Always felt everyone was taking advantage of him. Just his mode of going through life.

Especially in this day and age where you have the woo-woo horse whispering trainers and all sorts of miracle medicines, people who aren't 'horsey' think that they aren't at fault for anything, it's someone else's fault.

From now on, when you sign a BOS, put 'As is, where is' on it. Then if something goes wrong, you can point to that. If you feel you need to take the horse back and re-do a deal, it's up to you, the ball is in your court. As I understand it, you don't owe her anything from a business POV. Some states used to actually have a horse lemon law but it's something like 30 days, not 5 months. You'll have to check your state's laws to see if it's on the books and enforceable.

Hip
Dec. 17, 2009, 02:07 AM
Ok, he's not in danger, suffering or going to auction. They got a valid KS diagnosis through X-rays from a vet who is excellent.

The current treatment is shockwave therapy and they are trying to get the injections approved through insurance. He's back working, on the lunge to build up his back muscles and it sounds like they are heading in the right direction with him.

I think the owner was overwhelmed and stressed out by this- he's been a bit of a science project since they got him, but his feet are fixed and his ulcers are healed and they are working on this issue now.

The retirement home search is a backup plan in case all else fails and he has to be a pasture pet.

I didn't see your post when I posted, so mine sounds a little silly but it is true. :yes::lol:

FineAlready
Dec. 17, 2009, 10:44 AM
Ugh. This is why I don't sell horses and also why I somewhat hate buying them. I think most experienced horse people would understand that when you buy a horse w/o a PPE (and, often when you buy a horse WITH a PPE) you get what you get and there are no promises. Horses are fragile creatures and they do break down. It sucks, it's not fair, but that's just how it is. If you have the horse when the music stops, it's your problem, in my opinion.

Also, if they've had this horse for nine months now, you'd think they would care enough about him to treat him and roll with the punches. I've certainly been in the position that they are in, and you'd have to fight me to the death to get me to return my injured horse to the seller for a full refund (even if I did have suspicions about what they did/did not know).

Unless you deliberately did something to mask a known problem, you've done nothing wrong, in my opinion. You're in a tough spot now, though. From an emotional perspective, if I had the financial resources to take the horse back, I probably would. But that's just me.

I hope that whatever you decide to do works out, and I'm sorry for all parties involved in this situation.

EDIT: Well, I obviously didn't read the whole thread first. I'm glad the owners are stepping up for this horse, and I hope that all continues to go well.

luvmydutch
Dec. 17, 2009, 07:19 PM
Glad to hear he is safe TB, thanks for finding out the story.