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HiHoSilver
Dec. 5, 2009, 08:44 PM
Need help deciding what to do. Leasing horse from BO. Full lease with no written contract; however. I know. I should have a written contract and this is why but be that as it may I don't. So, with that: BO daughter wants to ride horse too. Now BO daughter riding horse every day as well as me. Now I have to call BO daughter to let her know when I'm riding so we don't "show up to ride at same time."

Is this usual for the owner to continue to ride the horse while in a full lease? What do you all think about a horse being fully worked and possibly jumped 2x a day? Horse is older.

If not usual for owner to continue to ride, how do you clarify the situation with BO without making an "enemy."

If BO decides not to lease horse anymore then I have no horse to ride, so despite probably being "in the right" I have a lot to loose as well. I am also worried about the horse. It seems like a lot of riding for a senior age horse.

indygirl2560
Dec. 5, 2009, 08:49 PM
Yes you definitely should have gotten a lease contract. No, it's not normal for the owner to keep riding the horse during a full lease. IMO, you need to sit down with the owner and get a contract signed. Just be nice about it and say that you're concerned that the older horse is being worked too hard by being ridden/jumped twice a day.

Go Fish
Dec. 5, 2009, 10:36 PM
Ummm...if you have a "full" lease, I'm assuming you are paying all the horse's expenses? Why in the world would you allow the daughter to use the horse for FREE? That's basically what's happening. They pay none of the expenses, but have all the benefits of using the horse.

Go to them and say, "hey, since I now have to share the horse 50-50, you'll need to pick up 50% of the horse's expenses."

rockfordbuckeye
Dec. 5, 2009, 11:11 PM
Go Fish - yes, but I mean they DO actually own the horse..? Does that matter? It's not like some other random person riding the horse. It's the owner.

Go Fish
Dec. 5, 2009, 11:17 PM
Doesn't matter...if you are picking up 100% of the horse's expenses, and that was your original agreement, then they have no right to use the horse without coughing up some of the costs.

I realize you don't have a written lease. BUT, you do have a history since the first day of the lease. They can't change the terms of that lease when ever they feel like it without your agreement or decision to back out of the lease immediately.

I agree with your assessment, also...it's probably not a good idea to be jumping this horse so often. Says something about the BO, in my opinion. I'd start looking around for a different arrangement somewhere else...do you really want to ride or do business with someone who cheats you and abuses the horse?

Edited to add...sorry...thought I was responding to the original poster.

gottagrey
Dec. 6, 2009, 08:51 AM
Need to have a discussion w/ the owner. It's not right that you are covering 100% of the expenses for the horse; however, it sounds like you are not really losing out as much as the horse is - unless you don't ride the horse if he's already been ridden by daughter. have a conversation w/ owner - suggest that since daughter is riding horse X amount of time that you do 1/2 lease or whatever. If owner gets miffed - then you know where they really stand (having you foot the bills for their horse!) If that is unacceptable maybe you can lease another horse - I hear of free leases all the time now

EAY
Dec. 6, 2009, 08:56 AM
I agree that they shouldn't be riding the horse. I've leased out one of my horses and I never get on him, unless they ask which pretty much never happens. I didn't even ride him when my other horse was lame and the girl who was leasing was unable to ride due to an injury.

Bogie
Dec. 6, 2009, 09:04 AM
Alway, always, always put agreements in writing.

The BO knows what a full lease is, so she's just taking advantage of you. From what I read you have both the BO and the BO's daughter now riding the horse YOU are paying for.

Since you don't have a contract, your choices now are:

1. Live with it.
2. Explain the barn owner you understood this to be a full lease, which meant that you were the only rider. Kindly say that you aren't interested in a partial lease and stop paying.
3. Explain to the barn owner that while you're okay that her daughter and she want to ride the horse, you now consider this to be a partial lease and that you want a contract that specifies who is riding which days, who is responsible for caring for the horse if it's injured, etc. And that you will pay your portion of the costs based on the number of days, no problem!

As for whether the horse can be ridden and jumped twice in a day? Unless someone is riding the horse hard (especially jumping high and for a long time) he should be fine. That would be something else to nail down in the contract.

You may find that if you tell the BO you're not interested in a partial lease that the daughter will find another horse to ride since they probably like it that you are paying the bills. It seems that you had already agreed to let the BO ride, so maybe that didn't bother you as much.

Good luck.

mrsbradbury
Dec. 6, 2009, 09:22 AM
If you can swing a full lease, assuming that youdo pay 100% of expenses. Board, lessons, shoeing, vetting and +/- insurance, and that you aren't campaigning the horse for a specific division. Why don't you get your own? Then you don't have to worry about sharing.

With us, a full lease means you have 100% private use of the horse, you pay 100% of it's upkeep, and an additional cost is incurred for the use of the horse for the duration of the lease. I encourage my clients that if they can swing the full lease, then they should own.

EventMo
Dec. 6, 2009, 10:54 AM
OP, your BO is taking advantage of you. If you are paying 100% of the horse's expenses, you should have exclusive use of the horse. If you do not have a conversation with BO, then nothing about your situation will change. While it may be difficult to broach the subject with BO, there are some good suggestions in this thread for doing so. What I would like to point out to you is that you have the leverage in this situation: BO wants you to continue paying for the horse (b/c that saves- arguably makes- $$ for BO), and I would be confident to presume that BO knows s/he is taking advantage of you right now. So when you point this out to BO, BO should be quite reasonable in either granting you exclusive use of the horse, or reducing the lease to partial. Go into the conversation knowing what you want, and insist on a written signed agreement.

I also agree with other replies which opine that, in light of BO's past practices, you should be vigilant about BO's trustworthiness in future business dealings. Best of luck.

WorthTheWait95
Dec. 6, 2009, 10:58 AM
If you can swing a full lease, assuming that youdo pay 100% of expenses. Board, lessons, shoeing, vetting and +/- insurance, and that you aren't campaigning the horse for a specific division. Why don't you get your own? Then you don't have to worry about sharing.

With us, a full lease means you have 100% private use of the horse, you pay 100% of it's upkeep, and an additional cost is incurred for the use of the horse for the duration of the lease. I encourage my clients that if they can swing the full lease, then they should own.

For a lot of people it's not the cost of the horses upkeep but the initial investment of the purchase price. That initial 5 or 6 figure price tag is daunting, plus with leasing it's less frightening in terms of owning a horse for the remainder of its life if it were to take a wrong step in pasture and be permanently lame. Kind of off topic but just thought I'd point out that being able to afford month to month expenses for a year lease doesn't necessarily mean people should or can own outright.

You should definitely NOT be paying for someone else to ride YOUR horse OP. When you full lease a horse that horse is yours in every sense for the duration of the lease agreement. If they want to ride the horse then they need to pay 50% of its expenses.

hntrjmprpro45
Dec. 6, 2009, 12:11 PM
We do full and half leases. With full leases you pay all expenses (as if you owned the horse) and get exclusive rights to the horse. For a half lease, you pay half the expenses and we retain the right to use the horse in lessons. However, with the half lease the person that is leasing always gets first choice in lessons and shows and we work our schedule around them. It sounds like you are paying for a full lease but getting a half lease (except you apparently don't get first choice in riding). I would bring it up with the owner now because it will probably just get worse over time.

Lazy Palomino Hunter
Dec. 6, 2009, 01:30 PM
I can't help you, but I had a similar situation in high school.

I was half leasing a gelding from my trainer, and she would use him in lessons a few times a week. A year into my lease, she decided to ALSO half lease him to another rider.

And still used him in lessons.

My contract clearly stated that I was half-leasing and I was permitted to ride him 3x/week. Unfortunately, it said nothing about what she was or was not allowed to do with the horse.

It was VERY annoying to know that the poor horse was being half leased by two people and being used as a lesson animal.

I never figured out a good solution, but luckily the other leasor backed out after about 3 months.

(Of course, I went to college in August, and my lease didn't end until December- trainer wouldn't let us terminate it. I came back to visit in November and couldn't find said horse. I then discovered that yet ANOTHER person was FULL leasing the horse... so the trainer was charging her for all the horse's expenses, and ALSO collecting the cost of expenses from my parents... PHEW that was an ugly situation.)

Sorry that I'm not more helpful, but I wanted to tell you that I really sympathize.