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View Full Version : TB Gurus... tell me what you think...



Ibex
Dec. 4, 2009, 05:22 PM
... of this mare pedigree-wise...

http://www.pedigreequery.com/grace+and+favour

She's my mare's Dam (dad is a WB). I'm mostly curious because in some ways my mare is so much like her sire, but in other ways, she's every inch a slightly quirky TB :lol: (and I love quirky TBs :lol: )

subk
Dec. 4, 2009, 06:41 PM
I'm hardly a "guru," BUT...

What I think is the most interesting thing about the pedigree is what is NOT there. No Mr. P, Northern Dancer or Raise a Native. Such an out cross is very unusual to find these days. I quiet like that there are a few Dollar lines--one through Elf which is sport horse magic--as well as a few lines to Matchem. I like seeing a little balance on all those Eclispe lines that we are so covered up with today.

Hopefully Vineyridge will chime in and tell us about some of the individuals...

JER
Dec. 4, 2009, 06:59 PM
I love Star de Naskra for sporthorses.

I have a Star de Naskra gelding who evented to Prelim despite really funky conformation (he heals well and keeps going, which means a lot more than flawless conformation). He is huge -- about 17.2hh -- and a total headcase on the ground.

But as a riding horse, he's fantastic. Very brave and honest and has a rocking horse canter.

Ibex, IIRC you're in the PNW. Isn't there a Star de Naskra stallion standing somewhere in this area?

Ibex
Dec. 4, 2009, 09:46 PM
Ah.... apparently Persian Star is a Star de Naskra (I love google). I think his owner posts here??

Grace and Favour was a race broodmare most of her life, then had three sporthorse babies by Braveheart (mine is the youngest), and then went back to being a racehorse mom. She's up in the interior somewhere now...

JER
Dec. 4, 2009, 10:04 PM
Persian Star looks a lot like my Star de Naskra gelding (right down to the head and long wavy mane/forelock). But how tall is he? I doubt he's as tall as mine (17.2hh) -- which is good.

This is a good line of TBs for sport.

Hevonen
Dec. 6, 2009, 09:47 PM
I agree, Persian Star looks a lot like my Star de Naskra gelding as well. My boy isn't too tall. 16.2hh or so. I haven't evented him yet... hopefully we'll get there, see how far we can get. He is great at dressage though, and my trainer loves his jump (if only he would behave!)

Curious... any other Star de Naskra horses with spooky temperments? My guy just likes to pick things at random and run. Confidence issues maybe, he's been getting better since I got him. Maybe it's the mare he's out of! In case anyone is interested, here's his pedigree:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/dar+d+naskra

bornfreenowexpensive
Dec. 6, 2009, 10:06 PM
Curious... any other Star de Naskra horses with spooky temperments? My guy just likes to pick things at random and run. Confidence issues maybe, he's been getting better since I got him. Maybe it's the mare he's out of! In case anyone is interested, here's his pedigree:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/dar+d+naskra


Don't know much on Star de Naskra...but pretty cool dam line (and your horse's dam was an EXPENSIVE filly...her dam is a graded stakes winner). Great old lines up close. That mare "Wont tell you" is pretty cool to have that close up. She is the dam of Affirmed. Her sire, Crafty Admiral, is in a lot of very nice TB pedigrees...usually in the dam lines. I haven't seen him this close up in a pedigree in a long time. And I've liked most Raja Baba horses that I've known...they were usually very good movers/jumpers.

NancyM
Dec. 7, 2009, 10:22 AM
Thanks for the redirect, Blugal. Yes, I have Persian Star. And I know your mare, Grace and Favour. My friend Angel bought her with my approval at one of the TB sales locally, she was a lovely looking mare, so well bred, and won $100,000 or so at the track. Star de Naskra mares have made very good race producing brood mares. The type I would have bought myself if the stallion I had was not by the same sire. I told Angel that if she didn't work out as a sport producing mare, that she was the one mare in BC that I couldn't help her out with by putting her in foal to my stallion for resale. Unfortunately, since that inbreeding would be just a LITTLE too close for my liking... probably produce a foal with two heads. Though perhaps if you breed arabs or QHs, it would be more acceptable LOL.

Grace and Favour was a VERY TOUGH mare, tough psychologically. I think that this was why she was sold at the sale, live cover with her was very difficult, dangerous even, for handlers and the stallion. Worked out OK for Angel, she AI's everything. I saw several of her offspring, the TB (a Silver Fox) she was carrying when Angel bought her, and several of the WB cross foals (probably yours) for the time that Angel had her. They were all very TOUGH horses, just like mom. Angel found that crossing her stallion to just about ANY TB mare produced horses who were soooooo huge, that she stopped doing it, stuck to WB mares, sold the TBs. Grace and Favour was not particularly tall, maybe 16.1 or so. All the TB crosses Angel made with Braveheart were much larger (taller) than the full WBs, dunno why that happened. The very "tough" disposition is well suited for racing, more difficult to deal with as a show prospect. I haven't met a lot of other Star de Naskras, other than my own, but suspect that this attitude with Grace and Favour came from her dam's line, not from Star de Naskra. Because mine isn't like that, anyways. His easy going attitude is one of his finest features actually. A friend of mine took a pic of her son (9 yrs old) cradling Persian Star's head and gave it to me. Made me laugh, wild stallion that he is. Then read on this website a few days ago how such horrible dangerous pictures irritate some people LOL. Hmmm, my horse is really like that, and it isn't like I asked for the picture, or even took it myself (though I did put it on the website LOL)

I've free jumped Persian Star, at our previous farm, and when he was younger. He jumps great, lots of power and very nice form. His racing injuries pretty much negated a show career for him after racing. But I've been jumping some of his offspring, and other owners with full and half TBs from Persian Star have also been very impressed with their jumping skills. Of course, his female line is full of steeplechasers and jumping talent, and that doesn't hurt either. His career as a race producing stallion is pretty much washed up (not because they can't run, but the marketing is difficult and no stakes horses from the few who have raced), but with the h/j/event horses that he's already produced, the secondary goal of producing sport horses as full TBs or crosses is now his value. He has great hock action, and that disposition that he was so well known for both at the track and here at the farm. It's hard to be so spoiled owning a stallion like him, comes as a surprise all the crap that other stallion owners/handlers have to put up with with regular stallions. He's always been a well handled horse, and I haven't ruined him since he got to me. But his great disposition is just HIM, it's naturally sourced. He's a kind and gentle horse, not spooky or difficult, always the barn favourate at each barn he lived in at the track, appreciated by trainers and barn staff alike. Just the type of disposition I was looking for in a stallion prospect. And I like the pedigree too, both for race and jumping. And the conformation.

Persian Star looks like a Star de Naskra should look. This comes from a friend of mine who broke and rode quite a few of them in Kentucky. She said they were nice horses to work with. The dark bay colour scheme with a small star which he produces most of the time comes directly from Nearco I think. But Persian Star also produces about 25% bright chestnut with lots of chrome, often four white socks. This comes from Hoist the Flag (on his dam's side) I hear. Which is OK with me too.

Ibex
Dec. 7, 2009, 12:53 PM
Most interesting! We suspected Grace may have been one tough cookie... my mare is a combination of very sweet and kind, but also a bit tough yet flaky at times. :lol: We can put her in a new situation like a busy horse show, and she's angelic. But god forbid you change the "home" routine, like rearranging paddocks or moving a pile of jumps 3' to the left :rolleyes: Thankfully I have a BO/trainer who keeps things super consistent.

Once she gets it through her head that a situation is "ok", she is calm and tough and will march over or through pretty much anything. She gets it in her head that she's "right" and convincing her otherwise can be challenging. Thankfully she's very kind, sweet, straightforward (she rarely comes up with anything "new") and a wee bit lazy, so as long as you're calm and persistent you can work her through pretty much anything, you just have to convince her that it's what she really wants to do (yesterday was "trot like a giraffe" day. Fine. We trotted like a giraffe until she realized it was harder work than going properly and then she was lovely and willing. yeesh.).

I've joked that getting her going is like the "Survivor" motto: outwit, outlast, outplay :lol:

fooler
Dec. 7, 2009, 02:02 PM
Sire line is very nice but really love the Dam line. Goes back to Teddy & The Tetrarch - both tough lines - as in temperment and soundness. Also a fair amount of Man O' War - which brings the Fair Play heat.
Loads of old European TB lines which often indicates a decent mind and a sound body.