Conformation flaws! Opinions....

[emcdunnough]

Hello, I am pretty new to this site! I am looking to breed my 7 year old 16'2 Anglo-Trakehner mare. I am horrible at picking her conformation apart so any criticism would be appreciated! I don't exactly know what I would need to improve with her and what's good.... I won't be offended at all!

Also, I am wanting something a little bigger boned and definitely a hunter....something super quiet. If anyone has any stallion suggestions feel free to suggest away!

http://picasaweb.google.com/emcdunnough/4746_3#5411163000370183410

Here is a photo of her!

[acottongim]

She's cute, it is difficult to pick her apart really well with her standing like she is, but she is over all pretty decent.

What is her breeding? Are you looking to stay within the Trakehner breed? And besides wanting quiet and hunter movement/bigger boned is there anything else that you would like to try to help?

Are her gaits good or could she use a better canter or jump for example??

I can think of a couple of TK stallions but would want to know about the above. Is size important (stay about the same, make her bigger, smaller???

[emcdunnough]

Thank you for your reply! She is a Thoroughbred/Trakehner.... Her sire is Kioga http://www.rockridgesporthorses.ca/tarzan.

I am unsure if I want to stay within the breed or not....I am tempted to but am afraid of getting something too hot.... In terms of size I would ideally want something a little bigger in bone and in height though height is not a huge issue.

Her gaits are all good.... she's fancy enough but I would like something that is a little more free and elastic in their movement if that makes any sense. Her jump is super cute so I am not TOO worried about that but it could be improved. She is a little unbalanced at the canter, I think that her hind end isn't as strong as I would like it to be even with a lot of work....so something that is built better to sit underneath themselves better....

I am very new to all of this...not extremely educated....if you haven't noticed already!!!!

I'll post some more photos a little later....I'll see if I have a better one for people to critique...maybe I'll try and find a video....

Thanks!

Who are those TK stallions you would recommend?

Also...I hate greys....

[sketcher]

Could you post a better confo photo of her? I'd be interested to see what she looks like when that back leg is in the proper position

[acottongim]

Sent you a PM. I love to look at grays but don't breed to them because I am way to busy to keep a gray pretty and white! LOL

[emcdunnough]

http://picasaweb.google.com/emcdunnough/Desktop#

Here are a few random shots of her doing various things.... excuse my position....I haven't been riding for very long...under 3 years..... She is also pretty green. She's only been under saddle for about a year and a half now.

I hope that helps you all pick apart her faults a little better!

[HickoryHill]

If you like chestnuts, Dacaprio might be a good choice. He's got bone, he's part Trakehner and even though he's dressage bred some of his offspring do well in hunters.
Just a thought :)

[stoicfish]

This is like e-harmony for horses. I think your mare would be a nice match with this boy
http://www.charlotfarm.com/2008%20Cabardino.htm

[emcdunnough]

I've thought about Cabardino....not sure how much I like him or not! Do you know any of his babies?

Dacaprio is super cute! His babies look super cute! I'm surprised that he throws good hunters.....

Does anyone wanna pick at her conformation at all??? Let me know what she needs to improve on? What she has that is good?

[stoicfish]

Not up close. May be some one will chime in that owns one to give you more details. I like his type and breeding.

[ponylover2008]

I have a Cabardino baby- would highly recommend this stallion. My filly is gorgeous, great conformation, and a wonderful disposition. She is very quick to catch on, extremely gentle, and very athletic.

[sniplover]

I have heard *very* positive things about Carbardino's get from a very well respected big-name warmblood inspector, particularly for the hunter market. Will ponder on stallions for a bit...

Is the mare already approved with any registries or perhaps have a certificate of pedigree (COP) from the Trakehner verband? I would also like to vouch for how level-headed and not 'hot' most Trakehners are - I wouldn't steer you away from them any more so than any other breed.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

If you can get her stood up a bit better I'm sure you'd get lots of comments on confo--I (personally) just can't tell from the pictures. Sorry.

[lolita1]

In terms of conformation she is a bit long in the back and looks a little weak behind. But I think she is actually a really nice horse.

When you pick a stallion you should be considering all of the things you know about her. Legs, Feet, Movement, Attitude, body type etc and then choose a stallion that hopefully will compliment her good points and then (thats the big one) improve the weaknesses she has.

What about Londonderry or San Amour who is my personal fav at the moment

[Royal Monaco]

Titulus might be a good match if you want to stay Trak. Two of my friend have 2 y.o. stallions from him and they both will be presented as stallion prospect next year.

They are both super easy horses with great conformation. Back is short and strong. Hind end powerfull.

If you don't want to stay Trak I would recommend Sir Wanabi. Almost all of his offsprings went premium (if not all) at their inspections. He passes on nice topline, beautiful head and neck and he scored a perfect 10 for temperament at his inspection.

[Dr. Doolittle]

In terms of conformation she is a bit long in the back and looks a little weak behind. But I think she is actually a really nice horse.

When you pick a stallion you should be considering all of the things you know about her. Legs, Feet, Movement, Attitude, body type etc and then choose a stallion that hopefully will compliment her good points and then (thats the big one) improve the weaknesses she has.

What about Londonderry or San Amour who is my personal fav at the moment

I usually don't chime in here, but am stallion shopping (with the future in mind) for my own red-headed mare, and I have to say that I think that the OP's mare is simply lovely, and has a fabulous hind end, well-muscled, good pelvic angles (for power), and that her back length is "just right". Simply my opinion, of course, but I *really* like this mare. If she were mine, I would do more with her and fulfill her (obvious!) potential before I bred her; again JMO, but why not see what she can do? I find it frustrating that many people with fabulous mares don't compete with them first before breeding them (this one is still young), and what a waste of potential in a lovely and talented horse, who happens to be female!

Londonderry is very attractive, and has an extravagant trot (and I love chestnuts ;)), but his jumping index isn't very high. San Amour--what a beautiful face! Are there any more pix of him?? He is pretty young, so probably doesn't have too many get on the ground yet.

Cabardino is pretty spectacular (and is on my rather long short-list), and seems to throw mostly "bays with a lot of chrome", but the 3 year olds don't seem to have his legginess--though they are certainly "stamped"! Do his babies inheret his tractability and rideability? He isn't that old himself, and most of his foal crop are younger (and from what I see, have fantastic jumping ability), but his one (older) approved son seems to be a bit "feisty" in his videos. Lots of tail wringing and buckiness. (Let's hope that's his dam's influence :p)

It's so hard to know whether to go with a young and amazing stallion (which is a bit of a crap shoot), or go with something more established in terms of what he (reliably) throws, but who may not be as fancy.

Sorry, if I seem a bit cranky! Winter coming on, and all :D This is the time to ponder these things, though (if one has a quality mare one plans to breed), and I have my own questions to post on this forum down the road...Good luck with your beautiful girl, and why don't you do more with her before breeding her?? She's awesome! I would ride her and compete her if I were you, while she is still young ;)

[Hip]

I don't really know much about Trak's but I have to say, you have a nice mare. To me, if her legs were opposite standing to where they are now, I would say that, to me, she needs a nip more back leg. Also, I don't know what you can do about it but seems a little pigeon breasted, but, that might be from where she's standing again. She certainly has a nice head and expression.

[sniplover]

Cabardino is pretty spectacular .. but the 3 year olds don't seem to have his legginess--though they are certainly "stamped"! Do his babies inheret his tractability and rideability? He isn't that old himself, ... but his one (older) approved son seems to be a bit "feisty" in his videos.

What the inspector said to me at the time was "he really improved these very average to just below average TB mares he was bred to" - those would be the 3 y.o.s in the US you're referring to, I believe. I honestly don't know about the tractability/rideability issues. I've seen pictures of the approved sun - fiesty or not in video, that boy can juuuump!

[Dr. Doolittle]

What the inspector said to me at the time was "he really improved these very average to just below average TB mares he was bred to" - those would be the 3 y.o.s in the US you're referring to, I believe. I honestly don't know about the tractability/rideability issues. I've seen pictures of the approved sun - fiesty or not in video, that boy can juuuump!

So if he were bred to a "wow" mare?? :D

I need to calm myself down, since I'm jumping the gun a bit for my own personal breeding goals. *Heritable Rideability* needs to be the main thing I keep in mind when it comes to choosing a stallion for my own "wow mare" ;)

[eventingismylife]

I usually don't chime in here, but am stallion shopping (with the future in mind) for my own red-headed mare, and I have to say that I think that the OP's mare is simply lovely, and has a fabulous hind end, well-muscled, good pelvic angles (for power), and that her back length is "just right". Simply my opinion, of course, but I *really* like this mare. If she were mine, I would do more with her and fulfill her (obvious!) potential before I bred her; again JMO, but why not see what she can do? I find it frustrating that many people with fabulous mares don't compete with them first before breeding them (this one is still young), and what a waste of potential in a lovely and talented horse, who happens to be female!

Londonderry is very attractive, and has an extravagant trot (and I love chestnuts ;)), but his jumping index isn't very high. San Amour--what a beautiful face! Are there any more pix of him?? He is pretty young, so probably doesn't have too many get on the ground yet.

Cabardino is pretty spectacular (and is on my rather long short-list), and seems to throw mostly "bays with a lot of chrome", but the 3 year olds don't seem to have his legginess--though they are certainly "stamped"! Do his babies inheret his tractability and rideability? He isn't that old himself, and most of his foal crop are younger (and from what I see, have fantastic jumping ability), but his one (older) approved son seems to be a bit "feisty" in his videos. Lots of tail wringing and buckiness. (Let's hope that's his dam's influence :p)

It's so hard to know whether to go with a young and amazing stallion (which is a bit of a crap shoot), or go with something more established in terms of what he (reliably) throws, but who may not be as fancy.

Sorry, if I seem a bit cranky! Winter coming on, and all :D This is the time to ponder these things, though (if one has a quality mare one plans to breed), and I have my own questions to post on this forum down the road...Good luck with your beautiful girl, and why don't you do more with her before breeding her?? She's awesome! I would ride her and compete her if I were you, while she is still young ;)

I second Dr. D on this one. I could see if she was unsound and you couldnt do anything with her or could just do light stuff. But really she is still green, why not finish her up and take her out in the big bright world and show her off?:winkgrin: Why not find out what she can do before breeding her?

[emcdunnough]

I usually don't chime in here, but am stallion shopping (with the future in mind) for my own red-headed mare, and I have to say that I think that the OP's mare is simply lovely, and has a fabulous hind end, well-muscled, good pelvic angles (for power), and that her back length is "just right". Simply my opinion, of course, but I *really* like this mare. If she were mine, I would do more with her and fulfill her (obvious!) potential before I bred her; again JMO, but why not see what she can do? I find it frustrating that many people with fabulous mares don't compete with them first before breeding them (this one is still young), and what a waste of potential in a lovely and talented horse, who happens to be female!

Londonderry is very attractive, and has an extravagant trot (and I love chestnuts ;)), but his jumping index isn't very high. San Amour--what a beautiful face! Are there any more pix of him?? He is pretty young, so probably doesn't have too many get on the ground yet.

Cabardino is pretty spectacular (and is on my rather long short-list), and seems to throw mostly "bays with a lot of chrome", but the 3 year olds don't seem to have his legginess--though they are certainly "stamped"! Do his babies inheret his tractability and rideability? He isn't that old himself, and most of his foal crop are younger (and from what I see, have fantastic jumping ability), but his one (older) approved son seems to be a bit "feisty" in his videos. Lots of tail wringing and buckiness. (Let's hope that's his dam's influence :p)

It's so hard to know whether to go with a young and amazing stallion (which is a bit of a crap shoot), or go with something more established in terms of what he (reliably) throws, but who may not be as fancy.

Sorry, if I seem a bit cranky! Winter coming on, and all :D This is the time to ponder these things, though (if one has a quality mare one plans to breed), and I have my own questions to post on this forum down the road...Good luck with your beautiful girl, and why don't you do more with her before breeding her?? She's awesome! I would ride her and compete her if I were you, while she is still young ;)

I forgot to explain why I'm thinking about breeding her!!! Okay I'll start from the beginning.... When she was 2/3ish she had a huge abcess in one of her hooves that took out about half her hoof. I didn't know her then but her hoof was x-rayed and it's perfect! She actually has AMAZING feet.... my farrier is always impressed with her!

She isn't a spooky horse AT ALL....not scared of anything but somehow developed a habit of refusing every once in a while....but it was strange because it would be at like a white x....nothing scary. I finally bit the bullet and started to think that there just MIGHT be something wrong with her so I called the vet. When he looked at her he noticed that she didn't track up by about 1.5 inches with her hind right. He said that it didn't look like it was anythings erious but that we would do some x-rays and such. It turns out that she has some liesions on her stifle and a few bone chips and cartilage flakes in there....her other legs are "textbook perfect".

I recently found out that when she had that abcess when she was younger they didn't have her on stall rest, she couldn't put any weight on that one hoof for over 6 months. She was turned out into a big field and fed dairy ration....great eh? Apparently she could canter on 3 legs...great for growing babies eh? The vet says that because of the uneven weight distribution it caused so much stress on that back leg that the bone just wasn't able to develop properly. We are going to try injections to see how she feels, but she is one of those horses that it's really hard to tell how much pain she is in because she is so tough....

If she stays sound I'll show her this summer and breed her next summer but if she doesn't, or she seems at all uncomfortable or unhappy I'll breed her this summer!

[emcdunnough]

I have heard *very* positive things about Carbardino's get from a very well respected big-name warmblood inspector, particularly for the hunter market. Will ponder on stallions for a bit...

Is the mare already approved with any registries or perhaps have a certificate of pedigree (COP) from the Trakehner verband? I would also like to vouch for how level-headed and not 'hot' most Trakehners are - I wouldn't steer you away from them any more so than any other breed.

The mare isn't approved with any registries....I actually am completely clueless when it comes to registering them and all that jazz....I'm very new to this so any advice to point me in the right direction would be much appreciated! :)

[mvp]

I'll take a shot at explaining what I see in her confo.

I think her front end is stronger than her hind end. I wish her pelvis were a bit longer and closer to the horizontal. I'm not sure if this is an illusion created by the picture, but her hocks look a little straight to me. If you want to jump big, you need more power back there.

Her neck looks set on a bit low-- or rather, it's thick at the base and leaves her chest at a low point. There's also lots of muscle near her shoulder at the top.

Caradino (who is stood up differently) looks really different in the neck's position and pelvis.

The tough part is determining whether you cross this mare with something really different from herself at these weak points, or choose a stallion whose conformation is more similar. Breeders worry about horses "put together by committee" that can happen when very different animals are combined. We don't usually get averages of the two features.

Most important, you must interview stallions carefully for the mind. This is true if you are breeding just one, for yourself or to sell. You are solidly in the ammy market and you want to produce a horse that anyone can enjoy. A good mind will go a long way in making you enjoy the baby-raising process and will help you (and others) not care so much about conformational imperfections.

Best of luck with your project! It's worth doing once at least.

[Dr. Doolittle]

I forgot to explain why I'm thinking about breeding her!!! Okay I'll start from the beginning.... When she was 2/3ish she had a huge abcess in one of her hooves that took out about half her hoof. I didn't know her then but her hoof was x-rayed and it's perfect! She actually has AMAZING feet.... my farrier is always impressed with her!

She isn't a spooky horse AT ALL....not scared of anything but somehow developed a habit of refusing every once in a while....but it was strange because it would be at like a white x....nothing scary. I finally bit the bullet and started to think that there just MIGHT be something wrong with her so I called the vet. When he looked at her he noticed that she didn't track up by about 1.5 inches with her hind right. He said that it didn't look like it was anythings erious but that we would do some x-rays and such. It turns out that she has some liesions on her stifle and a few bone chips and cartilage flakes in there....her other legs are "textbook perfect".

I recently found out that when she had that abcess when she was younger they didn't have her on stall rest, she couldn't put any weight on that one hoof for over 6 months. She was turned out into a big field and fed dairy ration....great eh? Apparently she could canter on 3 legs...great for growing babies eh? The vet says that because of the uneven weight distribution it caused so much stress on that back leg that the bone just wasn't able to develop properly. We are going to try injections to see how she feels, but she is one of those horses that it's really hard to tell how much pain she is in because she is so tough....

If she stays sound I'll show her this summer and breed her next summer but if she doesn't, or she seems at all uncomfortable or unhappy I'll breed her this summer!

Thanks for explaining all this (and it stinks that this happened to her, poor horse!) My fingers are crossed for you that she comes sound after the injections (sometimes they can surprise you!), and that you are able to bring out some of her wonderful potential before she becomes a mommy :)

Good luck to you both!

[emcdunnough]

She got her stifle injected on Thursday...I'll know within the next week what her fate will be.... :)

[sfstable]

What is her dam side pedigree ? Her head reminds me of one of my TB broodmares. I am interested if there is similar family lines, if so I can tell you who my mare has crossed well with (she has had 6 foals).

[toomanyponies]

I like your mare - lovely expression and look. She does look a bit 'front end heavy, so I would look for a stallion that is very balanced. Other than that, if you want hunter, find the best PERFORMANCE HUNTER stallions out there. They have demonstrated they have all the ingredients to be successful. Keep in mind that some may have had limited show careers because they are breeding. But does it jump like a top hunter?? Then look at pedigree - does that line produce hunters? and look at what they throw - does he stamp his offspring? What about quality of canter and temperment? both very important for a potential junior or amateur horse. Then, out of your short list, which ones compliment your mare, are the right registry, available in fresh if that is important to you. . . . For example look at Apiro - proven performance horse? yes. From a proven line that throws hunters? yes - tons of good Argentinus hunters out there. does he stamp his babies? sure looks like it, but he is young and doesnt have any showing yet. . . BUT he has a lot of size - maybe I wouldnt use him if I had a very big, coarser mare.

Now if you place a lot of emphasis on beauty and want to show on the line, you will look for a stallion that has produced successful hunter breeding horses. . . etc, etc.

[Lord Helpus]

I like your mare a lot. She is a lovely type and has a gorgeous expression looking out from a set of eyes set well apart on a broad forehead. Smart mare.

That said, she is not evenly balanced. She is a horse I would call "put together by committee". If you put your hand over the back 1/2 of her (at the saddle line) and look at her, then put your hand over the front 1/2 and look at her butt. Do those 2 horses look like they should be joined at the middle?

I would certainly look for a stallion with a really good hind end and an exemplary hind leg.

Getting picky (since you asked), her neck is lovely along the top line, but is a little thick where it joins her chest, creating a beefy or muttony shoulder. This surpirses me in an Anglo Trak. I would expect it in a heavier WB breed, like a Holsteiner, but not in a hot blooded horse.

If your goal is a tall, refined, balanced, well mannered, 10 moving, 3' ammie horse, look into Tish Quirk's Just The Best. I don't think you can go wrong there.