spinoff re: Ace

[Brooke]

I have a young TB mare that I've taken to a couple of small shows just to school around. I give her 1/4 to 1/2cc Ace before we go just to make the trailer ride and the first hour or so a little less exciting. I'm wondering how long it takes for it to clear the system, and if it would test if I were to actually show her in the afternoon. I don't want to do anything illegal, and I'd want it to be out of her system, but I'd also like her to be able to come off the trailer with a little something to help her think it's no big deal.

[toomanyponies]

I believe it is 7 days, but cant quite remember - it might be 10.

Dormoseden is only 48 hrs - more expensive but you give less.

[kellidahorsegirl]

Honest question here, so I guess flame suit on? haha

But is it common practice for people to ace their horses for riding and showing? This is the second thread I've seen just today about using ace to ride a horse.

Why not spend the time to teach your horse to acclimate to new places and behave?

I really do want to know the reasoning behind drugging a horse to make them 'safe' and/or rideable in a non-home environment.

I own 4 off the track TBs and rarely even lunge them after lots of time off, let alone give them any kind of medication.......I spent the time to teach them.

Is it a matter of a rider being able to handle a hot/hyper horse vs. one who isn't as able?

I know this sounds snotty and like I'm trying to start a fight...take it however you will, but I really DO want to know why people drug their horses. I GET if they're coming off injury and are WIRED and you need them calm to not injure themselves....but other situations, not so much.

OK back to my cave... :p

[toomanyponies]

I can give an example. . . nice horse, goes nicely at home, but green and sensitive. Maybe a little funny in crowds - or maybe a little funny about noises - whatever. He's perfect at home - jumps courses, does all the flat work. You want to start taking him to a show, BUT you want it to be a pleasant, successful experience. So, you could get him extra tired on the lunge OR you can give a him a little sedative. Sometimes, we ride or lunge them prior, and bring a little just in case - see how it goes. The last thing I want is a naughty greenie - possibly scaring himself, or hurting me. OR, even more annoying and rude to the people actually trying to show, riding around on a wild baby.

But, in my experience, its rare, not common. Most of them are fine - make sure they are quiet, hand walk, get on and go.

[Fluffie]

Honest question here, so I guess flame suit on? haha

But is it common practice for people to ace their horses for riding and showing? This is the second thread I've seen just today about using ace to ride a horse.



Keep in mind that the original ace thread WAS about ridding a rehab horse. :)

[lizajane09]

I believe it is 7 days, but cant quite remember - it might be 10.

Dormoseden is only 48 hrs - more expensive but you give less.

I think you're right about 7 days for Ace - so yes, if you give it in the morning, it's going to be "visible" in the afternoon.

And actually, I recently checked the USEF rulebook re: dormosedan, because I needed to sedate my mare for something 4 days before a show, and it says 7 days for Dormo as well IIRC.

[jse]

I just can't see the reason behind it, maybe for a local show with a timid or child rider and a horse that can be a little "up" at horse shows.
Sure bring some along if you absolutely need it but IMHO you should be able to get your horse to behave without it. Greenie or no greenie. We deal with a lot of babies and not once have we ever given them Ace before a show and you know what? The less of a deal we make of anything, the better they are.
This is just my opinion though and everyone does things differently.

[kellidahorsegirl]

Keep in mind that the original ace thread WAS about ridding a rehab horse. :)

Yes, I realized that now haha...and thats fine :)

I do know someone who's mother aces her horse all the time for shows and just schooling...its like common practice/habit. So seeing all this today just made me want to question it a lil more.

Toomanyponies:

I 'see' the point you make...but I don't buy it. I don't mean that disrespectfully by ANY means either. I just think (and know by personal experience from bringing up young horses and showing quite a bit) that it is very possible to be prepared for a horse to act up or be naughty in a show environment. You do not have to drug the horse.

My horses have been idiots a couple times just because something set them off. I remember everything I've learned and put my brain into action and work through the problem. If the problem becomes too bad, I load up, go home and try again another day.

I'm afraid there's no other way to say what I'm thinking other than bluntly haha, but I just wonder that if a rider isn't quite capable of containing a naughty young horse at a show, then maybe they're not the right rider. I don't think its necessary to fix a problem with drugs, that is a training error.

[jse]

Yes, I realized that now haha...and thats fine :)

I do know someone who's mother aces her horse all the time for shows and just schooling...its like common practice/habit. So seeing all this today just made me want to question it a lil more.

Toomanyponies:

I 'see' the point you make...but I don't buy it. I don't mean that disrespectfully by ANY means either. I just think (and know by personal experience from bringing up young horses and showing quite a bit) that it is very possible to be prepared for a horse to act up or be naughty in a show environment. You do not have to drug the horse.

My horses have been idiots a couple times just because something set them off. I remember everything I've learned and put my brain into action and work through the problem. If the problem becomes too bad, I load up, go home and try again another day.

I'm afraid there's no other way to say what I'm thinking other than bluntly haha, but I just wonder that if a rider isn't quite capable of containing a naughty young horse at a show, then maybe they're not the right rider. I don't think its necessary to fix a problem with drugs, that is a training error.

Completely agree with you....if you can't handle them then maybe you shouldn't be riding them?

[RedOTTB]

If your greenie is going to possibly hurt yourself or himself at a show, I think there are other issues which is kinda what Kellidahorsegirl said above. There are lots of training aids, exercsies, places you can haul to get your horse ready for shows without drugging them or possibly hurting yourself or others. Yes, if you want to go to a show you have to start some time. But what about hauling out for a group lesson first? Something more organized but slowly gets them use to "chaotic" shows.

I also think this is an ethical issue. How crappy is it to have an aced horse compete against me and place higher when my horse isn't drugged? That really is like a form of cheating to me.

Not starting a fight or anything, just saying, but I did see a lot of this when I was showing on the east coast and as you can tell, I don't like it :no: It's almost like there are too many people out there afraid of their horses :D

[toomanyponies]

To repeat myself - other than in rehab situations, or stall-bound to turnout again situations - I think its rare. I have used it once on a young horse out of the last, say, 20 I have done. He was definitely a special case, but he turned into a great horse, which may not have been the case if something had gone wrong the first time.

And lets be clear - there is no 'showing on sedatives'. Illegal.

[RedOTTB]

Also, if the unexpected happens at home or at a show, which horse is going to react better?

1) The one that has been trained to be level headed and not freak out or panic?

or

2) The horse that's always aced but not aced just this one time?

It can really come down to a serious safety issue.

[kellidahorsegirl]

To repeat myself - other than in rehab situations, or stall-bound to turnout again situations - I think its rare. I have used it once on a young horse out of the last, say, 20 I have done. He was definitely a special case, but he turned into a great horse, which may not have been the case if something had gone wrong the first time.

And lets be clear - there is no 'showing on sedatives'. Illegal.

Not sure of a way to prove or tell if people do it or not without testing,,,but I hope you're right in thinking its rare! :yes:

And yeah, its illegal......but that doesn't always mean a darned thing. Just means some people try harder to not get caught......lovely world we live in huh?

For the sake of benefit of the doubt though, I hope its a very rare occurance and people take the time to work with their horses, because thats what its all about, right? :)

[jse]

And lets be clear - there is no 'showing on sedatives'. Illegal.

It happens way more than you would think even though it is illegal, unfortunately. It's not rare at all.
No one is saying it's not ok to do so when a horse is being brought out of rehab, but to show your horse under the influence of a tranq. is not acceptable, hence why, like you said, it's illegal.

[Bogie]

If you feel the need to give some ACE to help your horse acclimatize to the show, then why don't you just take her, hand graze her or hack her a little on the grounds.

It's not a problem to give her a bit of ACE if you don't show her.

Actually, the first time I take a horse to a show, it's more of a look-see event for them rather than a competition.

I do find it interesting how anti-ACE everyone on this board proclaims to be . . . when several vets have told me that even they can't believe all of the things they see riders do to keep their horses calm at shows :no:. I no longer show and I never gave my horses any drugs when I did. So I'm just going by hearsay, but it does seem to be fairly common.

[tBHj]

Completely agree with you....if you can't handle them then maybe you shouldn't be riding them?

I agree as well for the most part. But lets face it.. not all horses are the same. I don't see an issue using ace/atravet to take a greenie to their first show if they are high strung horses. Usually (keyword) first shows are schooling shows that do not test for drugs anyways and are usually also crowded with green kids and green horses. Things can get dangerous fast IMO.

[faluut42]

when you are rehabbing a horse, not when you are showing.

When good ole Twister is off stall rest and ready for the first walk around the yard, ace makes him a little less true to his name...

As for giving Twister ace before a show to calm him down... I say give Twister a new name and learn how to ride better. Oops was that too blunt?

And it takes about 7 days for Ace not to test.

[mvp]

I have never given Ace with the expectation of the drug+experience teaching a horse to manage it better next time sans pharmaceutical help.

I have used that bit of chemical leverage for "just getting the job done"-- usually clipping. What I see there is that the horse will still make a bad decision (like taking aim for your head with a hoof) but he won't tell you first. To me, this means he's still worried and plotting beneath that calm, drugged exterior.

I would also use Ace to get a hand-walking job done for a rehabbing horse. The stakes are too high to allow him to make a mistake, and this is not a time to have a physically-taxing training conversation. I don't ever want to swing a leg over a drugged one since I'm not sure about the mind underneath.

This makes me wonder if "first visit to a show on Ace" has the mental affects you teachers out there want. Seriously-- I'm asking a question about training horses, not doubting or bashing the whole technique.

Acing to make a horse more manageable at a show seems to me like "getting a job done"-- as in people are unable or unwilling to wait out the whacky things a scared baby might do while figuring it out.

In an ideal world, we'd let them do that (and have training techniques for helping them realize that calm and thinking is better), and we'd give the hot/stupid ones enough time.

If, after shows-n-shows used to teach the experience doesn't work, the horse needs a new job. This is because he will always make you wish you could slip him a little illegal something. Thankfully, the vast majority of horses out there can be taught to put up with all kinds of chaotic crap.

[RockinHorse]

I agree as well for the most part. But lets face it.. not all horses are the same. I don't see an issue using ace/atravet to take a greenie to their first show if they are high strung horses. Usually (keyword) first shows are schooling shows that do not test for drugs anyways and are usually also crowded with green kids and green horses. Things can get dangerous fast IMO.

IMHO, whether or not a show tests for drugs, it is still cheating to compete on a sedated animal. Give the horse Ace if you want. Take it to a show on Ace if you want. Just don't take it in any classes until you can do so without sedation.

[lesson junkie]

With some OTTBs, I will give them a nip before we leave the farm. We go to the show, hang out for the day, hack around, then load up and head home. They can really light up at the sound of the PA system. The scrum near the in gate can set some off, too. Maybe all those horses standing around with people at their heads brings back starting gate. Once they see it's not racing, they're okay. That's when we try to get into the ring au naturale, never before. Better safe than sorry, you know.

I work hard, my horses work hard-it's just not fair to compete with someone taking a short cut, or hiding an unsuitable horse with drugs. I know it's "just a schooling show", but for some of us that's all we can ever afford to do. And, mvp, I think they learn on ace. We are talking no more than 1 cc, here.

[toomanyponies]

I'm taking 1/4 to 1/2 cc . . . for reference

And, for all of you out there who think showing on sedatives is widely prevalent, have you been to a rated show lately??? The drug testers are everywhere. . . no one wants to get set down. Besides there are many ways to 'skin a cat' so to speak and if you're smart you dont pick an illegal one.

[justplaintired]

I will probably be always mad about the time I went home from college for medal finals and my trainer drugged the horse I was riding. She owned the horse and I really was not given a say in the matter. I have no clue what she gave him but he was a hot OTTB usually did the jumpers. Did the first round alright and then went in for call backs, I was in first place so last to go for the test. The test required you to canter straight from line up to the first fence that was only about 5 strides away. I almost didn't get him to canter, thought we would crash the fence with a suuuuper deep spot. He 'woke up' a bit for the rest of the test but it was still horrifying. This was a local show where theres a LOT of drugging going on, it's pretty obvious which ones are drugged. I haven't ridden a drugged horse sense, I do recognize that it might be useful for rehab horses to keep them from further injuring themselves. As for using them on just spooky/hot horses...rain check for that one, I wouldn't do it but I can still see why some people would...hard to say.

A quote from a vet to a trainer "Now Martha, you can do start/train these horses one of two ways. You can do it the easy way or you can do it the way you're going to get hurt." The "easy" way is to medicate, not sure which specific drugs.

Re: rated shows...my new trainer said the last A shows we had at the barn there were drug testers there but she also said every sharps container had to be emptied at least every other day if not every day. That's an awful lot of needles...

[shawneeAcres]

First to answer the OP"s question, yes the horse would test positive for Ace that same day and for several days afterwards. Secondly, I REALLY do not think 1/4 to 1/2 cc is doing ANYTHING for your horse, it is in your head really. It is making YOU feel better but that amount of ace is not affecting that horse at all, unless you give it in the vein, and if so, that small amount MAY last 1/2 hour at best. I don't ace horses for shows, usually only if they are thrashing about with colic and the vet recommends it, choking (which helps them to relax and allow the food to pass) or REALLY acting awful for some procedure such as clipping. My advise is to take the horse one time WITHOUT the minimscule amount of ace you are mentioning and see how it goes. Go with the intent to jsut hang out and not show, and if she is acting fine then show. I'm not going to get into the "right" and "wrong" of it ethically. I do know that FAR worse things are done to "calm horses down" such as lunging for HOURS, which to me is really worse than aceing one! However, aceing a horse in any amount from one cc and up is pretty dangerous, as it affects the "Stay" apparatus of the joints and literally their knees can crumble out from underneath them! Now for rehabbing, and just quietly walking a horse in hand or possibly under saddle there is a place for tranquilizers as frankly I wouldn't want to be killed or risk re injury of the horse!

[RedOTTB]

A quote from a vet to a trainer "Now Martha, you can do start/train these horses one of two ways. You can do it the easy way or you can do it the way you're going to get hurt." The "easy" way is to medicate, not sure which specific drugs.

Re: rated shows...my new trainer said the last A shows we had at the barn there were drug testers there but she also said every sharps container had to be emptied at least every other day if not every day. That's an awful lot of needles...

Your quote above was directed to someone who clearly shouldn't be starting horses haha ;)

And I agree with your comment above. I don't care if it's a rated show or a local schooling show, drugging happens and it happens a lot more than people think. If you are fortunate enough to not see it, great, but it doesn't mean it's not there.

I grew up with OTTBs and any of the ones that had "problems" or were "hot" was 100% rider/trainer error, and ace was always the fix and it made me sick. Next thing you knew, these horses couldn't be ridden anywhere without it. People became scared of their horses and horse & rider were no longer a team. And this wasn't just at shows. This was out fox hunting, at home, on a trail ride, etc.

As an adult I am able to see the difference and I have yet to see a "stereotypical" OTTB with the respectable crowd I now associate with. My 6 yr old OTTB has been off the track for less than a year and is one of the best horses I've ever had. I won't go into the details or brag (:D), but nothing phases him because of how we've handled stressful situations in the past, and this was done with zero drugging or sedation.

[toomanyponies]

I will probably be always mad about the time I went home from college for medal finals and my trainer drugged the horse I was riding. She owned the horse and I really was not given a say in the matter. I have no clue what she gave him but he was a hot OTTB usually did the jumpers. Did the first round alright and then went in for call backs, I was in first place so last to go for the test. The test required you to canter straight from line up to the first fence that was only about 5 strides away. I almost didn't get him to canter, thought we would crash the fence with a suuuuper deep spot. He 'woke up' a bit for the rest of the test but it was still horrifying. This was a local show where theres a LOT of drugging going on, it's pretty obvious which ones are drugged. I haven't ridden a drugged horse sense, I do recognize that it might be useful for rehab horses to keep them from further injuring themselves. As for using them on just spooky/hot horses...rain check for that one, I wouldn't do it but I can still see why some people would...hard to say.

A quote from a vet to a trainer "Now Martha, you can do start/train these horses one of two ways. You can do it the easy way or you can do it the way you're going to get hurt." The "easy" way is to medicate, not sure which specific drugs.

Re: rated shows...my new trainer said the last A shows we had at the barn there were drug testers there but she also said every sharps container had to be emptied at least every other day if not every day. That's an awful lot of needles...

So lets see. . . one shot of legend and one shot of adequan equals 2 needles per horse (very common to give top performance horses legend and adequan on a weekly basis) plus say some get some banamine, or dex, that's a bunch more. Seems to be it'd be pretty easy to fill up a sharps box with perfectly legal substances.. . .

and somehow I see certain sense of irony in the phrases 'medal finals' and 'local show' being used in the same paragraph.

[yellowbritches]

There have been studies proving that horses learn while sedated, which, to me, makes the occasional little bit of Ace for a teaching purpose (the clippers WON'T kill you, hacking out is not the scariest thing ever to happen, you need to stand for the farrier, and, yes, going to a new place with lots of horses does not give you the right to act like a complete and utter idiot) a very good thing.

THAT BEING SAID, I have started A LOT of horses and taken a lot of young horses on their first field trips and to their first shows and can think of maybe twice where I've actually given them a little something to mellow them out (and usually it was the SECOND outing, after they tried to kill themselves and everyone around them in the process at the first outing). I would never in a million years think of entering any type of rated competition with any illegal substance, and I don't think I've ever even entered a schooling show class on something with a little Ace, but to get them out and about and seeing the sites without getting killed, I've done it and it has been useful. However, considering how many horses I've ridden in their first outings, 99.9% of them have taken it all in stride with very little shenanigans. Apparently, we do our homework right.

[Treasmare2]

I have been starting horses/ponies for 45 years and have never used ace or any other substance to start them or to go to a first show. I am now at the age I am not going to be the crash test dummy any more.....no more being the first rider. I can honesty say only one was ever an issue and he reared me off on our fourth ride and the fifth too. Not since then and he is progressing very well now. I can say I have had some interesting first shows but I think they learn about things better that way and remember better. With ace I think its a bit like having been to a party stoned....do you learn anything? Not so much.:confused:
I try to do the best prep I can, give them a good pre show lunge and hope its not your day to die.I try to do the things that keep me calm like be ready in good time and perhaps have a little pre ride tipple and away we go. Most time they are a star because :yes:they don't know what the heck is going one...its like show two or three that the think they have something to say about things.:eek:

[Release First]

and somehow I see certain sense of irony in the phrases 'medal finals' and 'local show' being used in the same paragraph.

Let's see. Medal classes are offered at the shows that you go to. There are rules and qualifications connected to those medal classes and to how you are eligible to ride in the year-end medal class. Only those qualified get to ride in the year-end medal class. Sounds like a medal final to me. There are many wonderful local associations in the country that offer medal finals that even the Big Eq kids try to qualify for but are not known at the national level. To the person riding in her/his local medal final (which he/she worked all year to qualify for) that class may be just as important to her/him as the Maclay is to someone on the National level.

Reminder to those in California that ALL shows are susceptible to drug testing. That is why we pay a California drug fee.

[sptraining]

I've gone to shows with *that* horse - the one I wished I could have drugged to his eyes so I could get around (OTTB). Instead I was stuck pretending I was a racetrack exercise rider sometimes even in the show ring.

There are lots of alternatives to Ace that help calm nerves of young show horses. Some magnesium/tryptophan supplements work well on some horses. It's not illegal and it's a longer term solution for the jittery horse.

It's a balancing act - can't give them something that'll test but also don't want to lunge their feet off if they are higher than a kite. If you have a horse that gets really nervous, I'd recommend taking a few months and taking him EVERYWHERE. That will probably be your best bet to calm him in new environments for the long term.

[toomanyponies]

Let's see. Medal classes are offered at the shows that you go to. There are rules and qualifications connected to those medal classes and to how you are eligible to ride in the year-end medal class. Only those qualified get to ride in the year-end medal class. Sounds like a medal final to me. There are many wonderful local associations in the country that offer medal finals that even the Big Eq kids try to qualify for but are not known at the national level. To the person riding in her/his local medal final (which he/she worked all year to qualify for) that class may be just as important to her/him as the Maclay is to someone on the National level.

Reminder to those in California that ALL shows are susceptible to drug testing. That is why we pay a California drug fee.
I absolutely agree with this "There are many wonderful local associations in the country that offer medal finals that even the Big Eq kids try to qualify for but are not known at the national level. To the person riding in her/his local medal final (which he/she worked all year to qualify for) that class may be just as important to her/him as the Maclay is to someone on the National level." In fact, I went to 4 of these finals this year with our kids. Being new to the area, I inquired about horse USEF show rating and they were STILL RATED LOCAL - therefore run under USEF rules and therefore no trainer in their right mind would ace a horse in this day and age and risk getting set down. There are lots of other ways to get 'em quiet. . .

[Tex Mex]

To get back to the OPs issue...You may want to check with USEF or your local show organization because I think that any horse on the showgrounds is subject to drug testing, not just those that compete.

As for the use of Ace itself, I think everyone should quit being so judgmental about it and simply respond if you have a constructive comment for the OP.

[dressurpferd01]

Ok, being a dressage rider I have a few thoughts on my mind here, so bear with me. Those of you who use ace to ride horses EVER, even rehabbing, do your horses ever get turned out? I had to rehab a fairly hot, sensitive, spooky mare several months ago that had been in a stall for about 4 months. We had some shenanigans, but oh well, deal with it, move on.

I've had several horses try to blow up at shows, even after they've been to a few, and it would never even cross my mind to drug them. Had a mare at championships decide she didn't want to go the show ring and just would go running backwards. Ok, so it took us 7 minutes to go 100 yds, and we almost got eliminated, it's a training opportunity.

I'm more interested in the turnout question. I have an idea already of the answers, but I'm asking anyway.

Perhaps those of you who have to drug horses for ANY reason undersaddle, should either:

A) Learn to ride better...

B)Stop riding crazy ass horses, it's not that hard to find sane horses...

C) Let a trainer deal with your horse to work out those issues...

Flame suit firmly zipped.

[Creaghgal]

From what I’ve seen recently, it would seem that the Ace would be better off getting injected directly into the thigh of the rider.

After all, if the rider is consistently relaxed, so is the horse. Or is that just old pre-ace thinking?

[hntrjmprpro45]

I would check USEF's banned substances list... If I am remembering it correctly I recall seeing many herbal remedies and non-prescriptions such as valerian, tryptophan, devils claw, etc. The bottom line is USEF does not want your horse "under the influence" so if you are using any substance to dull down your horse, just be careful. I would always suggest checking ingredients labels on anything that you give your horse to make sure they aren't illegal. And just because the label on the supplement says "show approved" double check anyways because that doesn't necessarily mean USEF approved.

As for riding horses under sedation (light or heavy dosages of Ace, dorm, etc) I would not do it. It compromises their balance and you could potentially do more harm than good. You can use it in some circumstances, like hand walking a horse that has been stall bound for weeks, or clipping a young horse, or for vet purposes but no riding.

[mortebella]

From what I’ve seen recently, it would seem that the Ace would be better off getting injected directly into the thigh of the rider.

After all, if the rider is consistently relaxed, so is the horse. Or is that just old pre-ace thinking?


Thank you for a great laugh! :lol::lol:

[tBHj]

IMHO, whether or not a show tests for drugs, it is still cheating to compete on a sedated animal. Give the horse Ace if you want. Take it to a show on Ace if you want. Just don't take it in any classes until you can do so without sedation.

What if you asked not to be judged? People riding green horses generally do not care about placings.

[Brooke]

Thank you to those who responded to my question. Just to make myself clear: I was not judged in any of the classes I entered- it was for schooling only. I have been riding for 50+ years, about 20 of those professionally, and most of those horses were TBs so I'm not unfamiliar with the OTTB, and I am a more than adequate rider. I have never before used anything on a horse I've taken to a show, (thus my ignorance about the use of the Ace) but this mare can be "up", and I'm too old to play games with her, and I don't like lunging them 'till they give up. So now I know, and now she's been to a couple of shows (and was wonderful by the way). So thanks again for the information.

[jse]

From what I’ve seen recently, it would seem that the Ace would be better off getting injected directly into the thigh of the rider.

After all, if the rider is consistently relaxed, so is the horse. Or is that just old pre-ace thinking?

:lol:

[faluut42]

Ok, being a dressage rider I have a few thoughts on my mind here, so bear with me. Those of you who use ace to ride horses EVER, even rehabbing, do your horses ever get turned out? I had to rehab a fairly hot, sensitive, spooky mare several months ago that had been in a stall for about 4 months. We had some shenanigans, but oh well, deal with it, move on.

I've had several horses try to blow up at shows, even after they've been to a few, and it would never even cross my mind to drug them. Had a mare at championships decide she didn't want to go the show ring and just would go running backwards. Ok, so it took us 7 minutes to go 100 yds, and we almost got eliminated, it's a training opportunity.

I'm more interested in the turnout question. I have an idea already of the answers, but I'm asking anyway.

Perhaps those of you who have to drug horses for ANY reason undersaddle, should either:

A) Learn to ride better...

B)Stop riding crazy ass horses, it's not that hard to find sane horses...

C) Let a trainer deal with your horse to work out those issues...

Flame suit firmly zipped.

I chose D) All of the above


From what I’ve seen recently, it would seem that the Ace would be better off getting injected directly into the thigh of the rider.

After all, if the rider is consistently relaxed, so is the horse. Or is that just old pre-ace thinking?

HAHAHAHA so true!!

I recently bought a TB mare that no one could ride because she was so nuts. What did I do? Gave her some tums for her tummy (she has uclers), and pretended like she wasnt going to kill me... Guess what I am still alive and well! Infact I am planning on taking her to the first event of the year :D

and guess what???? All WITHOUT ace!!! Snaps for ME!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

[CBoylen]

Thank you to those who responded to my question. Just to make myself clear: I was not judged in any of the classes I entered- it was for schooling only. I have been riding for 50+ years, about 20 of those professionally, and most of those horses were TBs so I'm not unfamiliar with the OTTB, and I am a more than adequate rider. I have never before used anything on a horse I've taken to a show, (thus my ignorance about the use of the Ace) but this mare can be "up", and I'm too old to play games with her, and I don't like lunging them 'till they give up. So now I know, and now she's been to a couple of shows (and was wonderful by the way). So thanks again for the information.

Don't let the ridiculous direction this thread has taken make you feel that you have to defend yourself. It's about the horse, not the rider's ego. A little ace for a horse at its first show where it is not competing is pretty damn standard, even for professionals. You are absolutely correct that working the horse tired is the wrong thing to do, as it makes the show a trauma. You want the experience to be pleasant for the horse, for the horse to be in a frame of mind to learn something positive, and you don't want it to learn new tricks because of a new environment. Nor do you want your young horse to be disruptive to horses that are there to show.

[Perfect Pony]

For those of you talking about using ACE, I wonder if you are putting ear plugs in?

For my mare who is sensitive to sound and can get a little spooky, I found ear plugs work much better than ACE.

I just rehabbed her after her stifle surgery without a drop of sedatives, just put in ear plugs when she was out of her stall.

[toomanyponies]

Ok, being a dressage rider I have a few thoughts on my mind here, so bear with me. Those of you who use ace to ride horses EVER, even rehabbing, do your horses ever get turned out? I had to rehab a fairly hot, sensitive, spooky mare several months ago that had been in a stall for about 4 months. We had some shenanigans, but oh well, deal with it, move on.

I've had several horses try to blow up at shows, even after they've been to a few, and it would never even cross my mind to drug them. Had a mare at championships decide she didn't want to go the show ring and just would go running backwards. Ok, so it took us 7 minutes to go 100 yds, and we almost got eliminated, it's a training opportunity.

I'm more interested in the turnout question. I have an idea already of the answers, but I'm asking anyway.

Perhaps those of you who have to drug horses for ANY reason undersaddle, should either:

A) Learn to ride better...

B)Stop riding crazy ass horses, it's not that hard to find sane horses...

C) Let a trainer deal with your horse to work out those issues...

Flame suit firmly zipped.

So to address your questions. . . yes, our horses do get turned out - some 2 hours, some half-day, some all day. If they get a soft tissue injury they are not turned out. They stall rest with ice, compression, poultice, meds etc until the injury is cold and our vet ultrasounds and tells us its ok to start handwalking. Then they start on 20 minutes and work up to 2xday for 20 minutes - still no turnout. Then, after recheck by ultrasound, we start walking under tack. Once they are trotting under tack we introduce turnout in small medical pen - sedated and watched - (and after one jumped out of medical pen and set back his progress, even more heavily sedated now). Depending on the horse and the weather, the horse may or may not be sedated for handwalking and or riding. Out of our 3 rehabs in the last 6 month 2 have been sedated and one hasnt. One we needed to sedate to handwalk (with chain over nose and earplugs in, he would rear, plunge, rear and strike out at the handler.) I had little or no interest in having my help hurt.

A) and C)? I am a trainer - in fact I often ride ones that other trainers are telling me to get off and lunge.

And finally, I have found some of my most 'sketchy' moments are riding rehabs - why? because your correct and normal reaction should be to ride forward with head up to stop the craziness. But what can you do on a rehab, with out potentially reinjuring it? WALK.

In my mind, I'd rather be safe than sorry. My vet agree with me.