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enjoytheride
Nov. 29, 2009, 01:59 PM
In an effort to gain some clarity and prevent a thread from being hijacked I shall start this new thread.

How much is a 2' 6" horse worth? Does it top out at 2' 6" or not?
Is it a valuable horse to own?
Can any horse do 2' 6"?
What makes it different from horses that can jump higher?

spmoonie
Nov. 29, 2009, 02:44 PM
Most any horse or pony can jump 2'6" unless otherwise prevented because of soundness issues, etc. The value of that horse is going to be largely determined by how fancy it is, breeding, rideablity, and age. My guy could be considered a 2'6" horse I suppose (He used to do higher, but I take it easy on him now since he is getting older). He's a good mover and a really good jumper. However, he is not easy to ride and does not currently do the changes (well, he does them when he wants to ;)). I would value him at 7,000. If he was 5 years younger, did the changes, and had better brakes, he could probably go for around 20,000+. Hopefully that gives you a general idea.

hntrjmprpro45
Nov. 29, 2009, 02:50 PM
Maybe $10k- $20k depending on location.

goeslikestink
Nov. 29, 2009, 03:08 PM
In an effort to gain some clarity and prevent a thread from being hijacked I shall start this new thread.

How much is a 2' 6" horse worth? Does it top out at 2' 6" or not?
Is it a valuable horse to own?
Can any horse do 2' 6"?
What makes it different from horses that can jump higher?

that would be an average joe public horse as most only jump 2ft 6 in a comfort zone the more braver go upto 3ft nine
if one was to go to shows theres a lot of entries in absolute novice , novice
and less in the imtermeidate than the open

thats unaffiliated same to in the affiliated classes only the braver more courageous riders with confidence to take the horse higher will enter

most horse can jump 2ft 6ins easily its the rider that have the problem

so average joe bloggs horse thats jumps 2ft 6in is average joe bloggs price
where as one that can jump 1.60 + is worth more

and a horse thats a good allorunder than can and does go clear in all that it does ie x/c ht one da event or sj -- and is in the prize money constantly is worth more than one that just goes round
ie agianst the clock or timed classes where by one round wins


2f 6 horse to me is average price of 3-5000k depending on ability of all roundment and size type of horse and age

GreenMachine
Nov. 29, 2009, 03:12 PM
Several years ago, I leased a mare who is a true 2'6" horse in the sense that that's the height she tops out at due to the length of her stride. She can jump 3' in true knees-to-eyeballs, back-cracking style, but her stride is too short to make it down the lines at the A-rated shows in VA without doing the ads. So, for all intents and purposes, 2'6" is where she tops out.

She has a great brain and is unfazed by anything a novice rider can do (trust me, I put her patience and sanity to the test many times), clocks around in one consistent rhythm with her ears up and expression bright, has auto changes, and jumps super-cute. No prep, no maintenance regimine, sound as a dollar. As long as I didn't do anything too ridiculous, we could pin in big classes and always had a shot at a tri-color...assuming we showed in a novice or pre-adult class that didn't also serve as a warm-up for the horses going in the 3' divisions (in which case we were outclassed). We showed and pinned at HITS, Lexington, Keswick, etc.... I think you could consider her pretty close to the ideal 2'6" horse in that she was saintly enough to tolerate novice riders and cute enough to win.

When I had her, she was about 10 years old and arguably at her best, she was priced at $10K. I think that adequately reflected the fact that she was a fantastic little horse who was great at her job but clearly wasn't going to become anyone's 3' horse. A horse that has the potential to move up obviously would be worth more.

Vandy
Nov. 29, 2009, 03:29 PM
For one that is going and winning and can't be more than a 2'6" horse? $5K to $15K. And for $15K, it had better win the hack, have a decent prepurchase exam, and be a seeing eye dog to the jumps. Although for a rider who needs one, this horse is worth its weight in gold, it really shouldn't be that expensive. I could find plenty that look the part and are safe and competent at this level for less than $10K. JMHO.

Sunny's Mom
Nov. 29, 2009, 03:35 PM
I paid 40K for a horse I have never shown above 2" (rusty stirrup). After a year of getting to know each other - we consistently did well at the A shows. If I'm riding well, we usually pin well and frequently get the tricolor. My trainer has shown him with success at 3 foot. He's very easy, safe for a nervous adult and moves cute (will win or pin well in the hack in good company). The plan was for him to be my move-up horse. But I'm not sure it will happen. I'm preggers now and he's hanging out in a field. I might find that 3" always looks too big for me!

JinxyFish313
Nov. 29, 2009, 04:44 PM
Depends on the market. In parts of some zones the 2'6" divisions are really competitive, in others they are not taken seriously. I know of people who have paid as high as $30k and as little as $500 for 2'6" horses at varying levels of made-ness. THey can be extremely valuable for adults or re-riders who don't have the desire to ever go higher, but want a quality, flashy, trustworthy and fancy hunter. They can also be very valuable to a trainer who can pass the horse from kid to kid as they move up. I have one of those now and if he were ever to be offered for sale (he won't be) he would carry a big price tag.

avec_love
Nov. 29, 2009, 04:49 PM
Interesting question...

In terms of height alone, barring any major soundness, conformational, or temperamental issues, I think every horse has the capability to jump three feet. They won't all do it in style, but they're all capable of making it over.

However, not all horses will be able to be successful in the show ring at 3'. Many horses who are able to make it over the height simply don't have the step to make it down the lines once the heights are raised from 2'6". To me, that's what people mean when they say a horse is maxed out at 2'6": it can make it down the lines comfortably.

Granted, there's also the question of brains. Since 2'6" is generally a novice division, "good" 2'6" horses are ones that not only have a fancy jump and can make the step, but can bring a semi-unbalanced, nervous, and/or hesitant rider around a course. It would, of course, also have a lead change - and if it's fancy, and going for a higher price range (around $15K in my area, I believe) also be winning the hacks in style.

CBoylen
Nov. 29, 2009, 06:03 PM
It depends on if the horse is actually limited to the 2'6" or if that is just what the rider wants to jump. If it's the latter, they can buy a very fancy horse out of another division and spend as much as they want on it. Many do. Some of them intend to move up to 3', and may do so, some don't or won't. But if you went to buy a horse out of the 2'6" division the horse that is capable of going back into the 3'6" division from which it came is still a very expensive animal, and the horse that is only a 2'6" horse by virtue of its step or scope is not.

Tex Mex
Nov. 29, 2009, 06:27 PM
IMO the biggest difference between the 2'6 (Green rider/low childrens) and the 3' is the dreaded two-stride that the course designers use. There are a lot of horses that just don't have the step or scope to chip in and canter out of a two-stride if the rider makes a mistake. So the 2'6-2'9 divisions at many A shows can still be really competitive with some fancy horses, some of which are priced at $50K or more. Then there are the other factors- movement, soundness, manners, etc.

Gry2Yng
Nov. 29, 2009, 07:47 PM
Tex Mex may have answered my question, but I am going to ask anyway. Shouldn't a horse that can jump 2'6" or 3' have an easier time making it down the lines at 3'? Or are they setting shorter distances (as they should) in the 2'6" lines.

Not sure if I am making myself clear, but wouldn't the greater jump height make it easier for the slightly shorter strided horse to make it down the line?

Trixie
Nov. 29, 2009, 08:08 PM
They tend to move out the lines.

Haalter
Nov. 29, 2009, 08:08 PM
So the 2'6-2'9 divisions at many A shows can still be really competitive with some fancy horses, some of which are priced at $50K or more.I still cannot wrap my mind around spending $50K+ for a horse that doesn't have the scope for a 48' two stride at 3'. Wow.

Eeq
Nov. 29, 2009, 08:50 PM
I would say a horse that jumps no higher than 2' 6" is in the range of $15,000-$20,000 a horse in that price range would also be totally broke and virtually bombproof and sound! Otherwise $5,000-$10,000

Tex Mex
Nov. 29, 2009, 08:51 PM
They will definitely move the lines out for the 3'.

I can't fathom spending that much for a 2'6 horse either, but there is an entire universe of kids and ammys that will stay in those lower divisions forever and they want to WIN! Especially the hack, since they know they are inconsistent over fences. Some of the nicest horses at the AA shows never step foot in the 3'. It's crazy...

tidy rabbit
Nov. 29, 2009, 09:06 PM
40K for a 2'6" horse? Damn. I'll meet you at the shows and tote you around on my back over a 2'6" course for a whole season for that! I think I couild move up to the 3' with a light weight rider. Not sure how I'd do in the hack though. I might have trouble keeping up with the pace with someone on my back.

Linny
Nov. 29, 2009, 09:11 PM
There are $50k horses in 2'6 divisions, not because they are 2'6 horses but because they have owners that are 2'6 riders.

In theory just about any horse should be able to jump 2'6. The question (and the price) is all about what you want him to do with it. A horse that is easy and sane and pretty enough for the clueless ammy to show at A shows is different from the trail horse that is capable of 2'6 but doesn't have to put 8 nice fences together in a row to get a ribbon.

LovesHorses
Nov. 29, 2009, 10:08 PM
I still cannot wrap my mind around spending $50K+ for a horse that doesn't have the scope for a 48' two stride at 3'. Wow.

You would give me a heart attack if you did two strides in a 48' line! It should be set at 36' for a 3 foot class.

Cindeye
Nov. 29, 2009, 11:50 PM
Two years ago in California...$20k to $50k. This year...free to good home. Word.

dags
Nov. 30, 2009, 07:31 AM
Two years ago in California...$20k to $50k. This year...free to good home. Word.

Dead on. Saw the 50K 2'6" horse out there with my own stunned eyes. Things would win all over the Short Stirrup ring and stop out in the Childrens. Amazing what people will pay to be Green Rider Hunter Champion.

Top of that market now, the creme of the 2'6" creme, probably lists at $25K and may actually fetch that if horsey is young, vets clean, has chrome and is certifiable daisy cutter.

The rest of them, decent looks and ability, medium age, clean vetting, $15K. Find one flaw in that PPE (or a Roman nose, donkey ears, and sewing machine movement) and you're looking at a 4 figure offer.

Hauwse
Nov. 30, 2009, 08:39 AM
Excluding cripples, and miniatures, I doubt there is a horse on the planet that cannot jump 4', and a rare horse that does not have the step for a 2'6" hunter course.

The question is more appropriately what a horse can do for the rider, as opposed to what the horse can actually do.

Example... ponies and EQ. horses, both can price well in the hundreds of thousands of dollars and only part of the value of the horse is based on what the horse capable of.

Think of the school horses who are wise enough to handle an array of riders, they are absolutely invaluable to any rider training program.

To an ammy who is scared to death of breaking the 3' barrier, but wants to compete and possesses the resources, why not spend whatever amount necessary to get "that" horse?

I know a mother daughter pair that purchased a 350K horse last year to share the duties of EQ horse and Ammy horse. The mother loved the horse so much she decided not to share, and ended up purchasing another 150K plus horse for the daughter.

Personally I would have taken 5K to the track, but it's not my money, and I cannot argue with the value they placed on the "right horses for them".

JinxyFish313
Nov. 30, 2009, 09:37 AM
^I know TONS of horses that don't have the step to get around a 2'6" course set at horse show distances. Most of the school program I moonlight at couldn't do a real 2'6" course with George Morris in the saddle.

bizbachfan
Nov. 30, 2009, 10:49 AM
^I know TONS of horses that don't have the step to get around a 2'6" course set at horse show distances. Most of the school program I moonlight at couldn't do a real 2'6" course with George Morris in the saddle.

I agree with that!

TSWJB
Nov. 30, 2009, 12:09 PM
They tend to move out the lines.

i know at the big shows they roll out the lines but at the shows i attend i never see them roll out the lines. the scooling hunters two six jump the same strides as the three foot hunters. this is at local A Shows as well. so does it make it harder for the two six hunters to make the lines?

Haalter
Nov. 30, 2009, 12:22 PM
You would give me a heart attack if you did two strides in a 48' line! It should be set at 36' for a 3 foot class.HA! I guess I should have proofread that before posting...That would be 36' ;)

dags
Nov. 30, 2009, 12:29 PM
i know at the big shows they roll out the lines but at the shows i attend i never see them roll out the lines. the scooling hunters two six jump the same strides as the three foot hunters. this is at local A Shows as well. so does it make it harder for the two six hunters to make the lines?

If this is a smaller event my guess is they're making it easier on the 3' horses by not pushing out lines set for 2'6".

JinxyFish313
Nov. 30, 2009, 12:35 PM
Any event I've been to where the lines were not adjusted per division didn't have any classes over 2'9" anyway.

Heineken
Nov. 30, 2009, 12:52 PM
I own the 2'6 packer model: auto change, hack winner, makes it down the 2'6 lines easy. He can JUMP the 3ft fine, but he can't make it down the lines unless I'm spot on and GOD FORBID I miss! Then we are hitting the double adds and I'm praying for forgiveness.

He's on the market now (and has been for a year) at 15k. He's the proven hack winner and kid proofed, vets clean etc. No takers. Everyone wants the move up model for that price...and the number of people who I've told very clearly, "he's a pre childrens/adult horse with a successful rated show record" ask at least three more times "Do you think he can move up?"

SERIOUSLY! If I thought he could move up I'd be showing him in the 3ft myself or selling him for closer to 70k! He's amazing and I love him but don't want to be tapped out at 2'6.

Any takers, lol?!?!

JinxyFish313
Nov. 30, 2009, 01:03 PM
If I had any younger kids coming along at this time, I wouldn't shy from that $15k price tag Heineken because I know how invaluable that type can be. As a trainer, a horse that can be leased to one or two kids each year as their first step up from the ponies or first show horse, is certainly worth that price but in this economy people (individual buyers) can't afford to buy a horse to use for one season and then have to trade up again quickly. If you're going to buy something now it needs to last for awhile or be a real bargain. Since solid 3' horses are going for peanuts now, a real bargain for a 2'6" horse is definitely not more than 4 figures.

Heineken
Nov. 30, 2009, 01:31 PM
Yes, Jinxy, I know. The good news is I love riding him so it isn't breaking my heart to keep him...I'd prefer a lease because I like him enough to want him back long term!

dani0303
Nov. 30, 2009, 01:47 PM
To me, the price of a 2'6 horse really has to do with its temperment. If it's fancy, flashy, and jumps 2'6 with its knees to its eyeballs but a bit more of a pro ride, it won't be worth much unless it had the potential to go higher. From my experience, the 2'6 market would be much more interested in a less flashy but more reliable horse.

Oldenburg99
Nov. 30, 2009, 02:13 PM
How much is a 2' 6" horse worth? Does it top out at 2' 6" or not?
Is it a valuable horse to own?
Can any horse do 2' 6"?
What makes it different from horses that can jump higher?[/QUOTE]

IMO, the 2'6" is an invaluable learning opprotunity. We've all been there and a "steady eddy" is worth its weight in gold. I show locally in VA, in the GRHSA and CHSA. And the 2'6" divisions are packed and very competitive. You better be consistent and fancy. And depending on the judge, you might be doing the striding but many accept the add's. There are horses in the 2'6" divisions around here for $10K-$30K or more. Some of these horses could jump higher and maybe someday they will as their owner progresses, or with the trainer. Others are limited in their abilities for whatever reason, age, injury, etc. These horses are solid citizens with good temperments and nice resumes. I would consider a nice 2'6" an assest to own, whether for your own learning experience or for re-sale. I also believe, that some horses are not meant to do the 2'6". They will be bored and become lazy which can become dangerous. Hope this answers your questions! :D

Dooner
Nov. 30, 2009, 03:05 PM
I leased a horse once who had shortish stride, and had a sticky change in one direction, but landed on that lead 90% of the time. She was as honest as you could get, and she went the same every time regardless of the conditions or the ride. She could do the 3', but her average jump became more average, and you had to be accurate to make the lines. She was purchased, as a very green bean who had only been under western tack, for $1500 and retired as a broodmare but I would have expected her owner to price her at $8000 - $10k at her peak. This was in the mid 90s, probably free to a good home in this market.

I think (hope) that the days of the $15 - $40K version of this mare--varying based on aesthetics rather than athleticism--are over, or at least suspended for the next few years.

Don't get me wrong, if someone can/wants to spend six figures for a first-year/regular horse, and take it in the 2'6", more power to them. But I think prices were artificially inflated in the last 3 or 4 years, and didn't reflect the true supply of very average horses.

Smiles
Nov. 30, 2009, 03:15 PM
The price of a said 2.6ft horse depends on whos marketing it. A bnt can command a higher price tag then your local run of the mill trainer. Yep there are people out their that have paid a lot of money for a horse that is never going to jumper higher then 2.9ft and if thats wht they are willing to pay more power to them. Almost any horse can jump 2.6ft, but can the horse go on auto pilot and take their rider around in style is another question.

RugBug
Nov. 30, 2009, 03:28 PM
Excluding cripples, and miniatures, I doubt there is a horse on the planet that cannot jump 4', and a rare horse that does not have the step for a 2'6" hunter course.


Must be nice.

I know PLENTY of horses that cannot jump 4' or even 3' safely and struggle to get down a normal 12' set line. Most are some type of stock horse, but their temperament makes them invaluable teachers.

To the OP, I purchased a confirmed 2'6" -2'9" winner, cute jump, decent looking, auto-change (blurgh), 6 mover, good brain, extremely clean vetting for low 5 figures. I'm hoping he can do 3' as well, but if he can't he'll have served his purpose with me (mileage) and will move on to the next person how needs that mileage.

kansaschester
Dec. 1, 2009, 11:58 AM
My observation of horse show trends, having shown in A shows for decades, is that the big divisions (both professional and amateur) are getting smaller and the low divisions are getting much larger in numbers. Concurrent with this trend is the increase in quality and competitiveness in the lower divisions, made up of older adults, reriders, busy working people and amateurs who want to ride their babies. There can be some very fancy horses in the 2'6' divisions! Some will jump higher one day and some won't but that is where the market is moving and prices will refect it.

ponies123
Dec. 1, 2009, 01:01 PM
To me, the price of a 2'6 horse really has to do with its temperment. If it's fancy, flashy, and jumps 2'6 with its knees to its eyeballs but a bit more of a pro ride, it won't be worth much unless it had the potential to go higher. From my experience, the 2'6 market would be much more interested in a less flashy but more reliable horse.

:yes: This. At 2'6" you're paying for the temperament. For an A/A horse at 3' you're starting to pay more attention to fancy too. Even an ugly thing that goes around quietly and does the changes and gets the strides will do well at 2'6". Nothing bigger than a medium pony, IMO, should be impressed by 2'6" enough to consistently have the big, knees to the eyeballs jump over something that small.

chawley
Dec. 1, 2009, 01:09 PM
My observation of horse show trends, having shown in A shows for decades, is that the big divisions (both professional and amateur) are getting smaller and the low divisions are getting much larger in numbers. Concurrent with this trend is the increase in quality and competitiveness in the lower divisions, made up of older adults, reriders, busy working people and amateurs who want to ride their babies. There can be some very fancy horses in the 2'6' divisions! Some will jump higher one day and some won't but that is where the market is moving and prices will refect it.

I completely agree Kansaschester! The 2'6" divisions at a couple of the larger shows I attend regularly are extremely competitive. The classes are big and the horses are fancy jumpers and movers. A minor mistake easily puts you out of the ribbons and don't bothering entering if your horse can't do the lines. Some of the horses have shown in this same division for years. They are typically owned by a trainer (or a trainer's client that has moved up) that leases them to a rider needing mileage, rerider, or older amateurs. That being said, rarely do I see one of these types for sale, and when they are, the price is anywhere from $10K-$40K depending on how fancy, sound, and easy to ride they are.

mvp
Dec. 1, 2009, 01:46 PM
No offense, but *show me* a horse-size "fancy jumping" 2'6" horse.

I'll make it easier-- show me something larger than 14.2 with its "knees near its eyeballs."

Making it easier, still, you don't even need to show me one with a bascule.

My point is that I don't see how one of regulation-sized animals (read: big enough to just step over a 2'6" out of stride) is really going to use itself well.

The hella over-jumping baby doesn't count. Remember that, as hunters for newbie, oldie or scared rider, these horses are not supposed to scare the bejesus out of their cargo with an unpredictably big effort over an oxer.

As I have asked elsewhere, how does one judge these pups besides looking for a saintly nature, point-n-shoot capabilities and pretty movement on the flat? Sure, those are part of being a hunter but it would really suck if the market changed such that breeders started aiming for this market and letting go of the athletic ability needed to jump something bigger.

As a service to future generations, perhaps we should keep the price paid for a kind but unathletic horse low.

JinxyFish313
Dec. 1, 2009, 01:57 PM
There's 2'6" fancy and then there's 3'6" fancy. Fancy jumping in a 2'6" class means somewhat even with the knees and not flat through the back. They don't have to have knees at their eyeballs, but they are certainly more valuable than the ones that are flat/inverted and have one knee pointing down and the other sideways.

Trixie
Dec. 1, 2009, 02:06 PM
Sure, those are part of being a hunter but it would really suck if the market changed such that breeders started aiming for this market and letting go of the athletic ability needed to jump something bigger.

There was a breeder on here who was very insistent that her program was developed to breed the "spectacular 2'6" horse."

JinxyFish313
Dec. 1, 2009, 02:08 PM
There was a breeder on here who was very insistent that her program was developed to breed the "spectacular 2'6" horse."
lol

i guess that's another reason why I wish big shows would drop the 10 different <3' sections

mvp
Dec. 1, 2009, 02:09 PM
JinxyF-

Thanks for the clarification. I still want to *see* the advertising shot of the 5-figure 2'6" people say warrants the dough.

C'mon, bring it!

But I only need to look for even knees and not upside down? In that case, my gelding who I have been calling a cotton pickin' slacker all these years (in jest, and in between peppermints) deserves an apology and a higher price.

JinxyFish313
Dec. 1, 2009, 02:30 PM
Its not just the picture, its the ability to find 8 spots in auto-pilot mode, move out nicely and not be a beast around the barn/show.

But anyway, this is about 2'6" eh?

http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/Orderpage.aspx?pi=09IK00DIAW0000&po=0&pc=28

I just looked up the winner of a low children's eq class @ this yr's hampton classic and grabbed a pic.

RugBug
Dec. 1, 2009, 02:37 PM
JinxyF-

Thanks for the clarification. I still want to *see* the advertising shot of the 5-figure 2'6" people say warrants the dough.

C'mon, bring it!


Here's a video of my new horse: http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/elf+sale+video#watch%3Dv158115246QjAAYHM

He's only confirmed at 2'6" (had done some 2'9" but not as successfully). Not a great mover, but very pleasant disposition and way of going. He was low 5 figures. Hopefully we'll do some winning one of these days.

And don't forget, cost is relative to the market. 5 figures in CA is different from 5 figures in BFE

(that's not me riding...so no critiques of the rider. If you don't like him, or don't think he's worth low 5 figures...fine.

relocatedTXjumpr
Dec. 1, 2009, 02:45 PM
The mare I leased over the summer sorta fits this model.

To me, its more about the horses ability to get me around safetly and honestly even if I make mistakes. As an adult the simple fact of knowing my horse will jump and take care of me if/when I mess up is worth a lot more than how stylish or how big it can go.

We could nail a 2'6 course and had plenty of step for the lines, auto changes, etc. At 2'6 she jumped fairly cute. At 2'9 she rocked. Knees to the sky with still enough step to make the lines. At 3ft she would start to twist her body and move her shoulders over instead of tucking her knees. She would also want to shorten her stride and get fast and bouncy instead of staying nice and long and relaxed.

While she could jump that height, and even 3'3, 2'9 was where we were most competitive in good company. Lovely mover at the trot but again, at the canter would want to get balled up and not stretch down and relax. We would usually pin in the middle of the pack in good company in the hack...5ths and 6ths. She is also plain bay, so we tend to get lost in the crowd.

No real soundness issues, but she does require pads on her front feet and a monthly joint supplement...12 years old, fairly easy keeper with little to no prep at shows as long a she has been ridden on a regular basis. Not a stop in her, but she does like to go. Fine on trails, loads...needs to be twitched for mane pulling. Very paticular on footing..HATES deep footing and rain slop footing.

Me...I would have happily handed over $10k for her had I been shopping and had that kind of money. To me, the piece of mind in knowing the horse and knowing she would take care of me and NOT hold a grudge was worth more to me than anything. The fact that she stood quiet and still at a show while the tornado sirens went off as we were walking into our hack made her worth even more to me.

Trixie
Dec. 1, 2009, 02:47 PM
I think it just really totally depends. If Heineken's horse is the same one she was once kind enough to let me show once a few years ago, I definitely understand why that horse is priced the way it is: he's a very enjoyable horse to ride and is pretty to boot.

I wouldn't pay mid-five figures for a 2'6" horse because 2'6" isn't my goal - same way I wouldn't pay $100K for an awesome reiner or something even if I had the money laying around. It's just not my goal. However, for some people, riding a nice, fancy, steady eddy that they feel safe on and can show and enjoy is priceless. I can understand that.

It's regional also - here in NOVA where boarding and land costs are exorbitant and salaries often commensurate, an average 2'6"-er will run you more than somewhere that disposable income is less.

RugBug
Dec. 1, 2009, 03:17 PM
I wouldn't pay mid-five figures for a 2'6" horse because 2'6" isn't my goal - same way I wouldn't pay $100K for an awesome reiner or something even if I had the money laying around. It's just not my goal. However, for some people, riding a nice, fancy, steady eddy that they feel safe on and can show and enjoy is priceless. I can understand that.


Absolutely. While 2'6" - 2'9" isn't my end goal, I need some more experience there and I would like to do it on a horse that isn't as problematic as my fancy, more talented one. So while it was a lot of money to me, it was worth it. During the purchase process, I was also keeping on eye on future sale potential (2-3 years) so soundness and temperament were tops on my list.

Heineken
Dec. 1, 2009, 03:18 PM
Trix, new model, check the FB, but even prettier and a better mover! He's worth every penny, as he hacks out alone, in company and with hounds and never looks at ANYTHING in the show ring. Takes no prep etc. He's the real deal...with a smaller step than is ideal. If I could do the add's in the 3ft and win I'd be keeping him.

LookinSouth
Dec. 1, 2009, 03:42 PM
No offense, but *show me* a horse-size "fancy jumping" 2'6" horse.

I'll make it easier-- show me something larger than 14.2 with its "knees near its eyeballs."

Making it easier, still, you don't even need to show me one with a bascule.

.

There are a number of 5 figure 2'6 horses here that have a fairly decent jump at that height here....

http://www.bigeq.com/horses-hunters.php?h269

Shrunk "N" Da Wash
Dec. 1, 2009, 03:52 PM
I wouldn't pay any more than 5k (CAN) for a 2ft6 horse unless it was 4 :lol:.

Most horses should be able to do 3ft unless soundness issues prevent it from doing so or it is not a breed that is meant to leave the floor. I recently got a horse that was long listed for the olympics in eventing for 15k (CAN) she is 16 but sound and hopefully will be showing 3ft3 this year at events maybe 3ft6. She's quiet enough to do hunters if I wanted to and she could do well beyond the 2ft6 class if she couldn't I wouldn't have bought her. If I wanted to just do 2ft6 I still wouldn't pay more than 5k. If you want a 2ft6 horse you can buy just about any nag put a wee bit of training into it and go do it. I bought a QH for 1.5K as a 3yo a few years back and he cleaned up in 2ft6 hunters after a year of work done with me and I was 11 at that time. The training it requires to make a 2ft6 horse no matter how good is minimal.

Anyways my point is no 2ft6 horse is worth more than 5k (CAN) in my eyes.. Some people may be willing to pay that but not ME.

A horse is worth as much as someone will pay for it... :yes:

Heineken
Dec. 1, 2009, 03:56 PM
Shrunk, was your horse capable of toting ANYONE around safely? Was it working mid level dressage? I bet not...

Shrunk "N" Da Wash
Dec. 1, 2009, 05:04 PM
Shrunk, was your horse capable of toting ANYONE around safely? Was it working mid level dressage? I bet not...

What did you bet? Because you certainly bet wrong... :winkgrin:

The 2ft6 QH I had was totting me around (I was 11) and several of my young friends. His dressage was quite good... Better than most hunters because in addition to our hunter stint he evented at pre-training level (3ft2). He took me around my first 2ft9 events when I was 11 and continued to safely get me around 3ft2 events he had one rail and one refusal in his ENTIRE event/hunter/jumper career.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=389856&id=546108503 Jumping

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=389856&id=546108503#/photo.php?pid=389873&id=546108503&fbid=6917503503 Jumping again

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=389856&id=546108503#/photo.php?pid=389877&id=546108503&fbid=6917523503 Dressage

And yes.. If you look through the album there are some bad photos. I wasn't the best 11yo rider and I would chase and I mean chase to fences because I believed that speed was power :lol: However, joey was pretty quiet so he never really got going tooo much.

If you mean the 15k event mare I just got.. Then you also bet wrong because she has won numerous second level dressage classes and she totes me around and I'm an ANYONE. :cool:

mvp
Dec. 1, 2009, 05:28 PM
Thanks for all who posted pictures.

I have a better idea of what a "great jump" at 2'6" looks like versus a meh (and worse) jump looks like.

I mainly see differences in the front end, but I didn't see any of these using a whole lot of back or neck.

Again, no offense or disses to any of the exemplar horses, but the general unbasculed look makes me think that we are producing the pointy-crouped, no-muscle-behind western pleasure horse of the English world. In this division, it's unreasonable to assume that a horse-sized horse would have to use its body significantly.

How long will we admire these horses and these pictures before they become the "search image" we use to breed or buy?

I do think a great-minded 2'6"-er should be valued and cared for. He does an important job. But making his job (and type of animal) an end in itself seems like a bad idea in the long run.

Again, no disrespect intended to the people or horses who showed up to help me learn.

In my horse's case uneven knees over his meh jumps has two causes: not enough step and his damned (but lovely) too-casual attitude about these speed-bump fences and about his cushy life in general. This may be the difficulty faced by all people producing and marketing 2'6'ers.

I also agree that what makes a great Little Jump horse is not what happens over the fence, but his ability to pack someone around all eight of 'em. I would like to see breeders and trainers placing value on these fabulous minds. That would go a long way in excluding drugging and lunge-to-death scenarios at shows.

RugBug
Dec. 1, 2009, 06:01 PM
Thanks for all who posted pictures.

I have a better idea of what a "great jump" at 2'6" looks like versus a meh (and worse) jump looks like.

I mainly see differences in the front end, but I didn't see any of these using a whole lot of back or neck.

Again, no offense or disses to any of the exemplar horses, but the general unbasculed look makes me think that we are producing the pointy-crouped, no-muscle-behind western pleasure horse of the English world. In this division, it's unreasonable to assume that a horse-sized horse would have to use its body significantly.

The ones who have to use their body significantly..and CAN use their body (some just can't due to conformation)...at that height really are maxed out. I was looking for pictures of a mare we have at the barn who's a lovely little hunter...but she has to do adds even at 2'6". It's too bad because she's cute as a button, ammie friendly, lovely mover and nice jump...she just can't get down the lines. She's got enough for some 2'9" in her at home...but not a competition course at a show.

My new horse doesn't have the greatest form, but between the fences he's pretty nice. He lopes around looking relaxed and happy. He does want to get a little quick, but he's very rateable. THAT'S what I liked about him. I'm hoping that he will even be able to do some 3' or 3'3", but am not sweating it because he has more value as the 2'6" packer...instead of wearing him out at higher fences.

My horse search started with a local horse that was doing beginner stuff (crossrails, 2' and some 2'3"). He was priced at $10k. His owner didn't want to show him to me because while she thought he could do 2'6", she didn't want to wear him out at 2'9". I ended up trying him for some beginners at the barn and I LOVED him. He was so easy to the jumps. He did have a little bit of a testing streak to him, but once you got past that, he was gold. He was going to be purchased in our barn but there was some suspicion about a hock. If injections would've taken care of the issue, we would've had the $10k 2' - 2'3" in the barn. Owners wouldn't budge on price and so he went back...and sold relatively quickly.

It really is about price, location and what someone is willing to pay.

dainty do
Dec. 1, 2009, 06:11 PM
Rugbug-- I love your horse, his canter, relaxed way of going, and his jumping.

Three years ago, I was looking for a horse like that and couldn't find one.

Show_hunters
Dec. 1, 2009, 06:23 PM
It depends on if the horse is actually limited to the 2'6" or if that is just what the rider wants to jump. If it's the latter, they can buy a very fancy horse out of another division and spend as much as they want on it. Many do. Some of them intend to move up to 3', and may do so, some don't or won't. But if you went to buy a horse out of the 2'6" division the horse that is capable of going back into the 3'6" division from which it came is still a very expensive animal, and the horse that is only a 2'6" horse by virtue of its step or scope is not.

I so agree with you!

lizajane09
Dec. 1, 2009, 06:25 PM
in addition to our hunter stint he evented at pre-training level (3ft2)

I'm confused... this is not a level in three-day eventing. There is the Novice level, which could also be referred to as the pre-Training level, I suppose, since it comes before the Training level, but it is 2'11". The Training level itself is 3'3". There is no 3'2" level.

Sorry, don't mean to be picking at details but I've been following this thread and am honestly confused about what exactly it was this horse was doing?

Shrunk "N" Da Wash
Dec. 1, 2009, 06:57 PM
I'm confused... this is not a level in three-day eventing. There is the Novice level, which could also be referred to as the pre-Training level, I suppose, since it comes before the Training level, but it is 2'11". The Training level itself is 3'3". There is no 3'2" level.

Sorry, don't mean to be picking at details but I've been following this thread and am honestly confused about what exactly it was this horse was doing?

Sorry I go pre-training in Canada. My rules may be out of date. But i did the metric conversions and pt is 3ft2, training is 3ft5 and prelim is 3ft7... Pretty sure those are the correct heights.

lizajane09
Dec. 1, 2009, 07:04 PM
Sorry I go pre-training in Canada. My rules may be out of date. But i did the metric conversions and pt is 3ft2, training is 3ft5 and prelim is 3ft7... Pretty sure those are the correct heights.

Ah, I see that the Pre-Training stadium height can in fact be up to 3'2". X-C though is equivalent to our U.S. Novice, 2'11". Similar for Training - 3'3" for x-c and 3'5" for stadium. Makes more sense now.

Heineken
Dec. 1, 2009, 07:58 PM
But, Shrunk, yours wasn't a 2'6 horse then. Not in the sense we are talking here. He did much much more. So it's a moot point :)

Shrunk "N" Da Wash
Dec. 1, 2009, 09:15 PM
But, Shrunk, yours wasn't a 2'6 horse then. Not in the sense we are talking here. He did much much more. So it's a moot point :)

My point was who would pay more than 5k for a 2ft6 horse?!!?!?
:lol:

I got a horse for 1.5k (CAN) and he did event higher but as for the hunters he really was most competitive at 2ft6. Therefore, who would pay 5 digits for a 2ft6 horse when you can get any nag (we got a QH off the mennonites) and turn it into a 2ft6 horse with next to no effort (an 11yo kid did it)

dainty do
Dec. 1, 2009, 10:17 PM
Well, if your willing to "Go Green", then it can be done, but it will take some time. I looked for more than a year, and could not find a 16H+ horse, with the stride, in the low 5 figures. Seriously, I looked everywhere. In the end, my options were to spend more, or get a very green horse. I decided to go green. My guy probably had about 60 days training, and had never jumped. But I thought he had potential and a great attitude. He now jumps great, but it was a risk.

AllyandPete
Dec. 1, 2009, 10:52 PM
I was trying to sell my horse as 2'6" horse a few years ago. He had the stride for 3', but not the form. He also ended up having major hoof issues that made farrier visits a wayyyy to regular of an occurance (he would occasionally rip off his glue ons <and half his hoof> after 4 weeks! ahhh) and was 15. This horse would win anything with anyone. He loved to show, and had a cute tuck (at 2'6"), auto changes, always won hack classes and was great in hunter under saddle classes. I could not get rid of him. Finally I ended up donating him to a college...the week after a 12 year old that was leasing him was champion at a series show in my area. ugh. stupid feet.

YankeeLawyer
Dec. 1, 2009, 10:57 PM
40K for a 2'6" horse? Damn. I'll meet you at the shows and tote you around on my back over a 2'6" course for a whole season for that! I think I couild move up to the 3' with a light weight rider. Not sure how I'd do in the hack though. I might have trouble keeping up with the pace with someone on my back.

LOL diet coke all over keyboard

GGsuperpony
Dec. 1, 2009, 11:08 PM
Is this the kind of "fancy jump" we are talking about over 2'6? Or is this a regular jump? Or... ?

I think this jump is actually 2'. I am just not sure what constitutes an amazing or good jump over the smaller fences and I want to know what everyone's talking about! :)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=37444171&l=00eb6dd7f3&id=22608014

Link should work for all regardless of FB participation.

ponies123
Dec. 2, 2009, 09:14 AM
Is this the kind of "fancy jump" we are talking about over 2'6? Or is this a regular jump? Or... ?

I think this jump is actually 2'. I am just not sure what constitutes an amazing or good jump over the smaller fences and I want to know what everyone's talking about! :)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=37444171&l=00eb6dd7f3&id=22608014

Link should work for all regardless of FB participation.

I think he is jumping quite nicely, but I would venture to guess that the goal with that horse is, ultimately, not the 2'6" ring. He looks like perhaps he is impressed because he is green over that little jump, rather than just jumping like that while in his niche.

I used to show a TB and in his season he showed at 2' and 2'6". He jumped very nicely, but he had the jump and stride to eventually do much, much more. He was also a natural wimp and fairly looky/spooky and while he jumped anything you pointed him at, he did get a bit snappier over the 2' and 2'6" because he was overjumping because he was a green bean.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=50034&l=a5a92fd4b4&id=575601279

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=50035&l=c64d8895ac&id=575601279

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=50037&l=8341ad188e&id=575601279

Not sure what he is doing now, but I'm sure if he continued to be shown at 2'6" for multiple seasons he would have lost that impressed jump at that height.

JinxyFish313
Dec. 2, 2009, 09:29 AM
Thanks for all who posted pictures.

I have a better idea of what a "great jump" at 2'6" looks like versus a meh (and worse) jump looks like.

I mainly see differences in the front end, but I didn't see any of these using a whole lot of back or neck.

Again, no offense or disses to any of the exemplar horses, but the general unbasculed look makes me think that we are producing the pointy-crouped, no-muscle-behind western pleasure horse of the English world. In this division, it's unreasonable to assume that a horse-sized horse would have to use its body significantly.

How long will we admire these horses and these pictures before they become the "search image" we use to breed or buy?


I don't know of anyone who TRIES to produce a horse who's end game is the 2'6" hunter ring. All of the ones I know just can't cut it anywhere else, or are older and are stepping down. They are 2'6 ers by default, not design. I would venture to say that in MOST places, the 2'6 horse does not have the 5 figure value it has in super competitive local areas, so I doubt we're in danger of ruining hunter breeding in America by paying good money for piece of mind at the 2'6 level.

Trixie
Dec. 2, 2009, 09:37 AM
My point was who would pay more than 5k for a 2ft6 horse?!!?!?

I got a horse for 1.5k (CAN) and he did event higher but as for the hunters he really was most competitive at 2ft6. Therefore, who would pay 5 digits for a 2ft6 horse when you can get any nag (we got a QH off the mennonites) and turn it into a 2ft6 horse with next to no effort (an 11yo kid did it)


Oh, dear... If you read this thread, your question is answered.

Sarabeth
Dec. 2, 2009, 10:20 AM
Here's a video of my new horse:http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/elf+sale+video#watch%3Dv158115246QjAAYHM

He's only confirmed at 2'6" (had done some 2'9" but not as successfully). Not a great mover, but very pleasant disposition and way of going. He was low 5 figures. Hopefully we'll do some winning one of these days.

And don't forget, cost is relative to the market. 5 figures in CA is different from 5 figures in BFE

(that's not me riding...so no critiques of the rider. If you don't like him, or don't think he's worth low 5 figures...fine.
RugBug, I LOVE your horse!

jas1317
Dec. 2, 2009, 10:26 AM
I still cannot wrap my mind around spending $50K+ for a horse that doesn't have the scope for a 48' two stride at 3'. Wow.

A 48' 2 stride!?!?

RugBug
Dec. 2, 2009, 11:09 AM
Rugbug-- I love your horse, his canter, relaxed way of going, and his jumping.

Three years ago, I was looking for a horse like that and couldn't find one.


RugBug, I LOVE your horse!

Thanks! He proved again last night why he was worth what I paid when he was ho-hum about a crazy busy barn. My other horse would've been bug-eyed and borderline unsafe to ride...or at least very challenging. Elf couldn't have cared less. :yes:

Shrunk "N" Da Wash
Dec. 2, 2009, 11:57 AM
A 48' 2 stride!?!?

I'm not sure I would want a hose that 2 strided 48' :lol:

RugBug
Dec. 2, 2009, 12:16 PM
A 48' 2 stride!?!?I'm not sure I would want a hose that 2 strided 48' :lol:

She already apologized for her error back on page two or so....