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Whoanellie
Nov. 27, 2009, 10:18 PM
I just received a call from one of the TIER volunteers regarding one of the horses we have here.

His registered name is Post A Note, we call him Garrett. The caller indicated she had pulled up some records somewhere (I have no idea where and do not know how to do that stuff myself) which indicated this horse is listed as deceased as of 1999. At the time of rescue, Garrett's hock was blown. Here is a link to his page on our website w/the full story: GARRETT (http://www.tierrescue.org/Garrett.htm)

When we got Garrett out of the feedlot, I did a tatto search on him and was able to identify him. I contacted the breeder who was also listed as the owner. I was told they had given him to a lady after he sustained his injury and the registration papers went with him.

A year or so ago I noticed that the farm where he was foaled was under new management and contacted them for more information. I was told the same story and the new management indicated that there was no information at the farm on this horse other than he had been given away and they didn't know what happened to his papers.

How do I go about finding his registration papers? He's not dead. Here's the link to the Del Mar Pedigree on Post A Note (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=POST+A+NOTE&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

Thanks for any info that can be provided.

danceronice
Nov. 27, 2009, 10:35 PM
Unless you can find the lady who was sold him with his papers, you are pretty much SOL. Someone else just had a thread about it, and basically you need a notarized letter from the last person to have the papers saying they're lost and then you have to pay a fee to the Jockey Club to get duplicate papers. So unless you find the owner who had the papers, there isn't much you can do.

vineyridge
Nov. 27, 2009, 10:36 PM
What difference would having papers make on a gelding if he is who you think he is? Just enjoy him and be happy.

He's a lovely, lovely horse, and a blacktype winner to boot with a droolworthy sport horse pedigree.

Cammie
Nov. 27, 2009, 10:37 PM
Not quite sure why it would matter if someone thought the horse was dead?

Anyway, the Jockey Club requires a notarized statement from the previous owner stating how the papers were lost or destroyed along with a $150 fee. Not worth the effort or the money for a gelding.

He shows up in the Jockey Club's tattoo search, so he is still in their system. If his papers had been returned and destroyed, his info would not show up in their database I don't think.....

It's actually on a sample sire report for Avenue of Flags from EquineLine where he's listed as being deceased in 1999. It's a mistake on their end, and not worth wasting your time trying to fix the error.....

http://www.equineline.com/samples/samp31.htm

Whoanellie
Nov. 27, 2009, 10:48 PM
Thanks everyone. I just thought it was rather strange that I was informed that he was listed as deceased when I had spoken to 2 different people at the farm on two different occassions.

Las Olas
Nov. 28, 2009, 10:18 AM
Whoanellie,

Did he come with the name Post A Note, or did you get that name from the tattoo reasearch? If you were reading the tattoo number off his lip, are you sure your tattoo number is correct?

From the pictures on your website it doesn't look like he has any white markings, so I went to TJC's tattoo reasearch site, typed in the tattoo you have on your website and that the horse doesn't have any white markings and the result didn't match Post A Note. I used the Y01507 tattoo number. Does he have any markings?

I used to work for TJC and handled the tattoo reasearch and we would have this issue come up every so often. Usually, one of two things were the cause. The tattoo was read incorrectly and they identified the wrong horse, or the owners that gave the horse away gave the new owners the papers, but filed a death report so the horse couldn't race again. Some racehorse owners will do this with geldings (generally not mares), as it gives the sporthorse owner the satifaction of having the papers in hand, while giving the racehorse seller the piece of mind that the horse won't be returned to racing.

danceronice
Nov. 28, 2009, 10:23 AM
Is it possible to report a horse dead without returning the papers? Or are they just culled from the records after a certain time? My old horse's name has been released--does that just happen automatically?

Las Olas
Nov. 28, 2009, 10:27 AM
First answer is yes, you can file a death report online and not return the papers. I have the papers on all of my deceased horses.

Second answer is also yes. The names are recycled automatically. Here are the exact rules regarding the reuse of names from TJC's rule book.


E. Names of horses over ten years old may be eligible for use if they are not excluded under Rule 6(F) and have not been used during the preceding five years either for breeding or racing.
Names of horses that were never used for breeding or racing may be available for use five years from the date of their death as reported.


F. The following classes of names are not eligible for use:
1. Names consisting of more than 18 letters (spaces and punctuation marks count as letters);
2. Names consisting entirely of initials such as C.O.D., F.O.B., etc.;
3. Names ending in "filly," "colt," "stud," "mare," "stallion," or any similar horse-related term;
4. Names consisting entirely of numbers. Numbers above thirty may be used if they are spelled out;
5. Names ending with a numerical designation such as "2nd" or "3rd," whether or not such a designation is spelled out;
6. Names of living persons unless written permission to use their name is on file with The Jockey Club;
7. Names of persons no longer living unless approval is granted by The Jockey Club based upon a satisfactory written explanation submitted to the Registrar;
8. Names of racetracks or graded stakes races;
9. Names clearly having commercial, artistic or creative significance;
10. Names that are suggestive or have a vulgar or obscene meaning; names considered in poor taste; or names that may be offensive to religious, political or ethnic groups;
11. Names that appear to be designed to harass, humiliate or disparage a specific individual, group of individuals or entity;
12. Names that are currently active either in racing or breeding (see Rule6(E));
13. Names of winners in the past 25 years of grade one stakes races;
14. Permanent names. The list of criteria to establish a permanent name is as follows:
a. Horses in racing's Hall of Fame;
b. Horses that have been voted Horse of the Year;
c. Horses that have won an Eclipse Award;
d. Horses that have won a Sovereign Award (Canadian Champions);
e. Annual leading sire and broodmare sire by progeny earnings;
f. Cumulative money winners of $2 million or more;
g. Horses that have won the Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Belmont Stakes, The Jockey Club Gold Cup, the Breeders' Cup Classic or the Breeders' Cup Turf; and
h. Horses included in the International List of Protected Names.

Whoanellie
Nov. 28, 2009, 11:39 AM
Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to find more info. I'm just not familiar with the researching other than trying to find the identity of one of our other TB's and not coming up with anything at all.


Whoanellie,

Did he come with the name Post A Note, or did you get that name from the tattoo reasearch? If you were reading the tattoo number off his lip, are you sure your tattoo number is correct?

We got the name from tattoo research. Our vet confirmed the tattoo when he came to the rescue. He was a 3 year old at the time and the tatto was very clear. I haven't revisited the tattoo in some time. Our vet is VERY familiar with racing TB's as he also has racehorses and does some vet work at Santa Anita, Pomona.


From the pictures on your website it doesn't look like he has any white markings, so I went to TJC's tattoo reasearch site, typed in the tattoo you have on your website and that the horse doesn't have any white markings and the result didn't match Post A Note. I used the Y01507 tattoo number. Does he have any markings?

No, he doesn't have any white markings. What white markings are listed in your research?


I used to work for TJC and handled the tattoo reasearch and we would have this issue come up every so often. Usually, one of two things were the cause. The tattoo was read incorrectly and they identified the wrong horse, or the owners that gave the horse away gave the new owners the papers, but filed a death report so the horse couldn't race again. Some racehorse owners will do this with geldings (generally not mares), as it gives the sporthorse owner the satifaction of having the papers in hand, while giving the racehorse seller the piece of mind that the horse won't be returned to racing

With the injury he sustained, I would imagine they wouldn't have wanted him to be returned to racing. The other thing I was wondering about was if he was listed as deceased in 1999 did the farm have insurance on him and collect?

Las Olas
Nov. 28, 2009, 12:06 PM
The other thing I was wondering about was if he was listed as deceased in 1999 did the farm have insurance on him and collect?

Unlikely this is the case. A vet would have had to submit a false death report which is insurance fraud and would cause him to lose his license as well as a potential prison sentance.

I looked up the tattoo number you provided, Y01507 and entered that it was a bay gelding (I also tried colt) and the system comes back that the tattoo number doesn't match a bay with no white markings. So, I'm not sure how they came up with Post A Note. It sounds like it's possible you have the wrong horse. You can confirm by calling TJC at (800) 444-8521 and they will research it for you. Maybe someone else here will go in their account and try it to make sure I'm not typing something in incorrectly.

Cammie
Nov. 28, 2009, 02:14 PM
Post A Note has the following markings-

Mixed patch of white hairs to right in forehead. Right hind: patch of white hairs on coronet in front; heel white. Cowlick to left at top of eye level.

If your horse is a plain bay, then the tattoo you researched is the wrong one......

Lady Counselor
Nov. 28, 2009, 02:52 PM
A bit off topic here, but I wondered how well he healed up for you? I see your link shows info from 2004. That was an ugly hock on him. Were you able to get him sound enough for light trail riding?

Whoanellie
Dec. 4, 2009, 11:22 PM
Mixed patch of white hairs to right in forehead. Right hind: patch of white hairs on coronet in front; heel white. Cowlick to left at top of eye level.

The cowlick,white hairs on cornet in front match. The white heel is on the right rear. Can't find "mixed patch of white hairs to right in forehead"


Lady Counselor: A bit off topic here, but I wondered how well he healed up for you? I see your link shows info from 2004. That was an ugly hock on him. Were you able to get him sound enough for light trail riding?

It was an ugly hock! He is fine for trail riding and has a nice temperment. The only time he exhibits any "stiffness" is when he lays down to roll. Getting up is no problem, going down he takes his time.

furlong47
Dec. 5, 2009, 12:21 AM
There was another TB named Post a Note foaled in 1984. Is it possible THAT Post a Note is the one that died in 1999?

Whoanellie
Dec. 5, 2009, 08:31 AM
There was another TB named Post a Note foaled in 1984. Is it possible THAT Post a Note is the one that died in 1999?

Hmmm. I suppose anything is possible. I do have a link to the 1998 Camino Real Derby where OUR Post A Note ran. I am not terribly knowledgeable regarding the race horse industry. In this race, he seemed to be dong pretty darned good until his stablemate, Event of the Year, out ran him at the end.

1998 Camino Real Derby (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF7ftz0UWaA)

I know he also ran in the Golden State "something or other". Don't know the name of the race, but it was in California I think. Probably in 1998. I was told there is a video of this one too, but I can't seem to find it.