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BAlter
Nov. 26, 2009, 08:39 PM
we just can't get along, I guess. :no:

For those of you married 5+ years, what's it supposed to be like, a happy, not newly-wed marriage?

It's been a long time. I guess we've always been up and down, I thought, that was just how life was?
He used to be nice, now constantly makes fun/mocks me, despite my begs and pleads not to.
I've talked to a lot of people about it. I've changed. I don't get mad anymore. I let little things blow over. I pick my battles, and, I don't want any battles.

I suggested counseling for both of us, at the suggestion of my counselor. He said we can't afford it. I said your insurance will cover it, there is free or cheap help available.

Finally today I had to cancel our plans last minute because of the tension. I said "Why do you want to be married to me anymore?" He can't come up with anything nice to say about me. He "thought things could have gotten better one day." But just last week he said how he finally admitted to himself that he had a lot of anger and contempt towards me for my career choices the past 2 years.

I've tried tiny little goals. 2 weeks ago it was just to touch each other- with a hand, or sit nearby. I was the only one trying. My begging to please do the one thing I can't handle- make fun and laugh at me- well, I don't know if there's a day that goes by without it. I can blow it off now almost all the times on the outside, but not the inside.

No kids, no cheating, no real money involved. We've moved far from my family (I wasn't close anyway) and my career keeps me traveling, so not many close friends. Most friends are mutual friends/couple I can't confide in. We both come from screwed up families, which doesn't help at all.

Do I just give up now, as I'm pretty young? Or is there something I am missing, something more I cold try. I literally have tried doing things so differently- and changing has been tough- but I have done it, and tried my very hardest. I stopped saying words like always, never, and literally I just don't get mad. He noticed it, and things were better for a while, but now it seems like he ups the anty to get me mad. I still don't get mad, just sad. He used to get very sad seeing me so upset. :sadsmile: Now he will keep going, until I'm about to suffocate from crying so hard, 'to get his point across and be heard.'

I purposely say kind things, thankful things. I did so today, several times, I remember exactly when. He just came over and said how I am "never" appreciative of his hard work. (Nevermind all mine...)

I used to run and leave when I felt this hopeless. I never had anywhere to go but I left anyway. I stopped leaving this year, to show how committed I was to making this work. But all I want to do is pack my stuff, and go to work, far far away from here and never come back. :uhoh:

We do have animals, and own the property, and long time back he proudly said he'd take care of all the animals for me, and even be so 'kind' as to not kick me out, until I get my feet on the ground and get my own set up. So, I guess I don't have to worry about taking the horses with me....

heatherny2
Nov. 26, 2009, 08:48 PM
I don't have too much advice, just some hugs for you. I work in family law, so see broken marriages on a daily basis. I have been married for 18 years, to my best friend. That is the key, since we are able to laugh and cry and make fun of each other, yet still love each other. I will tell you the one thing that worked for me years ago, and worked for my friend recently, is that I realized that he was the only person that knew how to make my coffee just the way I like it, even better than I can. :)
Good luck, in the end only you will know what is right.

FlashGordon
Nov. 26, 2009, 08:49 PM
Anyone that cuts you down like that, belittles you or makes fun of you, is not worth having around. From what you describe in your post, the stuff he is doing to you is hurtful and abusive.

Peace out, now, and don't look back.

And don't make the same mistake again, so be sure you get some counseling for yourself, ASAP.

Hugs to you.

Pelican Bay
Nov. 26, 2009, 08:50 PM
Nothing is going to change if you are the only one working on it. I cannot as an outsider give you advice but you need to follow your heart and your counselor. I am really sorry you are going through this. It is never easy or painless.

fatorangehorse
Nov. 26, 2009, 08:52 PM
You know it. Don't let time tick away. Leave. he doesn't deserve you.

BAlter
Nov. 26, 2009, 09:02 PM
Your guys are really helpful. I guess, just hearing what others would do, and hearing some things I already knew.

It's easy to say leave, but not so easy, when there is no place to go, and not enough money to fund that. I am leaving an extended period for work in 2009. I just got back from a short work trip, expecting to hear how much I was missed. Oh how wrong I was. :cry:

I'm sitting here asking total strangers for help, and he's been drinking beer all day, went and ate dinner in front of the Tv in the bedroom without talking to me, and is asleep.

Ironically, my friend called me for relationship advice today. She's been trying to get out of a physically abusive relationship for a while. She doesn't have many other places to go. I told what I always do, what he did is not acceptable, she knows she deserves better, and she deserves better than that. I guess I should heed that advice myself. She said she was feeling claustrophobic and wanted to run away. :sigh: I guess I should call her tomorrow and say where are we off to??? Two broke girls, horse poor, with dogs....

It just seems so - stupid- to end a marriage for such a -stupid- reason. We just can't get along? It wasn't always like this. But probably for the last 1.5 years, I feel like I don't even know what love it. We used to be so happy. We spent every day together. We were best friends long before we dated. I just, just don't know what happened.

KPF
Nov. 26, 2009, 09:03 PM
Sounds like it's already over, to me. Once you lose that much respect for someone, or vice versa, it's hard/impossible to get it back. You sound like you'll do fine on your own and will probably be much happier without him. So I agree with FlashGordon, peace out now, time's a'wastin'.

Hugs... been there, done that. Not a fun process but in the end, the right decision, and life is MUCH better now.

BAlter
Nov. 26, 2009, 09:08 PM
Im scared. Broke, my perfect credit fell down the toilet because of a job change 3 years ago. No support system. Nothing. :(

EponaRoan
Nov. 26, 2009, 09:17 PM
Talk to a divorce attorney before you leave especially since there's property involved.

I don't think it's a stupid reason to end a relationship when someone is verbally abusive to you.

FlashGordon
Nov. 26, 2009, 09:19 PM
Well, ok, here's the thing.

I've been married 6 years. We had some really difficult times for the first 2-3 years. Really hard.

But we always had two basic elements-- respect, and trust.

Even when we were not speaking much, were not the best of friends, and I wasn't sure how we'd make it through... we were never nasty, spiteful, hateful, hurtful to each other.

I don't think fear is a good reason to stay in a relationship. I see far too many women do it for way too long. See if he will try counseling.... but get your things in order as best you can. Cut your costs, even if it means letting go of horses and/or pets for now. Put some of your own money away, pick up a second job, something.

You've gotta have a friend or family member somewhere that can offer you a shoulder and a little help? A place to stay for a little while?

Anyway good luck to you, my heart breaks for you.

Leather
Nov. 26, 2009, 09:19 PM
Retrouvaille will help you decide whether or not it's over.

http://www.retrouvaille.org/

KPF
Nov. 26, 2009, 09:20 PM
Build your credit back up best you can and try to save up some money, as fast as you can. Make a plan and then bide your time until you can leave. Seriously.

When I left, I didn't have a lot of money, my credit was good, though-- I went from a 2500 sq. ft. house on a farm to a 700 sq. ft. apartment. Racked up a lot of debt the first year or so and it sucked, big time, but in the end I was glad I did it.

Good luck.:sadsmile:

grandprixjump
Nov. 26, 2009, 09:26 PM
I have been married 2 times, the first one, ran off on me before we got married, but I was dumb enough to take her back, about 4 years later, she ran off again with a convicted child molestor, so I ended up with our 3 year old daughter. I started dating again and got remarried to a woman with NO SELF ESTEEM, who was always accusing me of cheating, even though I had a very young girl with me all the time (wasn't like I was dropping her off somewhere and disappearing). So I had to end that one, got tired of being kept up all night, yelled at for some stupid little $hit, accused me of cheating with the YOUNG teenagers at the barn, they liked watching me ride, since I was one of the few jumping over 3'. I know your pain of being accused and challenged all the time.
Since then I haven't really been dating, was with a horse friend for awhile, but they didn't understand my desire to compete, and only wanted to trail ride.
All I can give you is the thought, that being in NO relationship is better than being in an emotionally or physically abusive one.

But in the END IT MUST BE YOUR DECISION, NOT SOMEONE ON HERE WHO DOESN"T KNOW HOW LONG OR EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING ON.
Kind of sounds like he wants out, but is there some kind of state law, that helps him if you file for divorce first? Maybe with alimony, or spousal support.

gieriscm
Nov. 26, 2009, 09:31 PM
The hubby and I haven't been married long - only eight years after dating for two. It seems like yesterday we met.

We have up days and down days. We also have a business together. Neither of us are perfect, and while constructive criticism is (mostly) appreciated, belittling, insulting, disrespecful behavior is not. The only time we ever had an argument where I ended up in tears, I was preggers and majorly hormonal, and the right song on the radio would have me bawling.

Frankly, both spouses need to commit 100% to the relationship. While that doesn't mean you have to live joined at the hip, it does mean that you have to appreciate and respect your spouse - even though I'll admit there are times when mine is completely exasperating!

Love isn't just a feeling, it's an action, and from your post it sounds like you're the one making all the attempts to make the relationship work. That won't fly, and eventually you'll burn out.

Once you decide to leave it doesn't mean you have to walk out immediately (unlike your friend - her life could be on the line). It means you make a plan. You set money aside. You look around for housing options. You find places for your horses to go - even if you have to give them away to a good home. You get a credit card solely in your name. You get (back?) into a career field that will let you support yourself and a critter or three. You don't get knocked up.

Hugs and luck to you.

glfprncs
Nov. 26, 2009, 09:32 PM
I've been through a fairly similar thing with my husband over the past 18 months...I feel that our issues evolved mainly from the fact that I am the primary money earner in the family. In a nutshell, my husband resented my career, resented that I provided most of the money for the family, and resented that he couldn't provide for his family like I can and do.

He hit his breaking point this summer...came home from working out of state and decided, on his own, to begin seeing a counselor. Things have truly improved since then. Seriously, we truly enjoy one another's company, we do things together, and can sit with the television off and just talk.

Turns out, my husband's baggage went back 17 years to when his dad died. Pile about 5 major life events on top of that, and a personal feeling of unworthiness, and it can be pretty destructive to a marriage. I'm grateful that my husband realized how destructive his own demons were...I was simply the easiest and closest person to lash out towards.

I'm glad to have the man I fell in love with back as my partner in this lifetime.

Anyhow, I'm sure this doesn't help. However, 6 months ago, I was done. I was ready to go to the attorney and start filing. I was fortunate that my husband realized that our issues weren't necessarily all about me.

buschkn
Nov. 26, 2009, 09:35 PM
So sorry to hear you are struggling. I had a break up after 3.5y about a year ago. It was hard, and I still miss him, but ultimately I know I made the right decision. And he was NEVER nasty to me. You know what the answer is. If you have to ask it is probably time to call it. If he can't stop ridiculing you for even one day, it is time to get out.

Call your friend, talk to a lawyer, and maybe make a fresh start together by pooling whatever resources you have. You can support each other as you leave your abusive relationships. Just because he doesn't beat you, doesn't mean it isn't abuse.

Certainly I think counseling would be a good thing to try if he would agree, just to give yourself some peace, but if he won't go, or won't fully participate, you need to get out. NOW. Hugs, jingles, and good luck to you.

Pascova
Nov. 26, 2009, 09:40 PM
Wow-- you seem to have great perspective and I am sure there is someone out there for you that you would actually enjoy being with.... You can find someone who loves being with you, looks forward to you getting home from your business trips, and who make you feel good about yourself. Life is not a honeymoon and everyone who as problems, but overall your spouse should be your best friend and respect you. You should not tolerate someone who is less than respectful --- life is too short!

Gayla
Nov. 26, 2009, 09:40 PM
He knows what is going on. Why is he so angry? What does he say when you ask him what is wrong? What in the world is he making fun of you about? Sounds really childish. Very disrespectful.

Go Fish
Nov. 26, 2009, 09:46 PM
We do have animals, and own the property, and long time back he proudly said he'd take care of all the animals for me, and even be so 'kind' as to not kick me out, until I get my feet on the ground and get my own set up. So, I guess I don't have to worry about taking the horses with me....

How big of him...kick HIS sorry ass to the curb.

I'll be blunt...get rid of this sorry loser, now. :mad:

BAlter
Nov. 26, 2009, 09:58 PM
How big of him...kick HIS sorry ass to the curb.
I wish I could, but it's not in the budget. At all.

I tried giving the horses away. No luck. I've cut expenses drastically. When the economy recovers I am confidant I will (with $$). Until then, I'm massively confused, and hurt.
.

What does he say when you ask him what is wrong? What in the world is he making fun of you about?
My lame response is always, if you love me, how can you stand to see me hurt so much? I don't know the answer.
I think he battles with low self esteem, I know I always have. Now we both feel worthless, when we used to be able to help each other and pick up when one of us was falling behind, like a team should.

Pascova, those are the kindest words I've heard all day. :sadsmile:


Pile about 5 major life events on top of that, and a personal feeling of unworthiness, and it can be pretty destructive to a marriage. I'm grateful that my husband realized how destructive his own demons were...I was simply the easiest and closest person to lash out towards.
You've hit the nail on the head, here.
Glad to know I am not alone
I know he worries about a lot. He worries about money and debt (who doesn't right now??). I've left him with a lot of responsiblity when I travel. He doesn't have a good support system either. He resents me leaving for work (although we took a year to decide this, as a couple), and me, and where we are in life, and what we've become. Even though I think we've done amazing for ourselves and at our young age, have learned ad weathered so much, and have gone farther in life than any of our parents or family ever did.

I guess it's like an addict, they can only seek help when they want to, right? There is nothing I'll do to change it (although, knowing someone else, somewhere, had the same situation and it got better, is really amazing).

Until then, I guess I distance myself as much as possible, avoid being home at the same times, and hope? If I knew what the answer was, I wouldn't be asking.... I really, honestly, don't know. It's been so long and the waters have been muddiest so much, I don't know which way is up.

Grataan
Nov. 26, 2009, 10:10 PM
Nothing is going to change if you are the only one working on it. I cannot as an outsider give you advice but you need to follow your heart and your counselor. I am really sorry you are going through this. It is never easy or painless.

Yeah. Same sort of thing just happened to a good friend of me and Dr Mr G-he's an ob/gyn and sometimes he has to take call on holidays or whatever-or take an emergency c section etc. His wife would get all upset "What do you mean someone is giving birth? This is Thanksgiving! Come home right now" etc. Sad part is she is off living this wonderful life and he is the one all torn up about it.

2foals
Nov. 26, 2009, 10:17 PM
In your heart you will want to know that you've tried everything so that you have no regrets, so try your best to get him to go to counseling or to try to get him to understand that your marriage is on the line...but if he refuses to participate in your marriage please don't waste your life waiting for him to change. Life is very short, and while divorce is a drastic change it will free you up to find someone who will be willing to be a true partner to you in life.
Hugs!

AiryFairy
Nov. 26, 2009, 10:23 PM
we just can't get along, I guess. :no:

For those of you married 5+ years, what's it supposed to be like, a happy, not newly-wed marriage?

It's been a long time. I guess we've always been up and down, I thought, that was just how life was?
He used to be nice, now constantly makes fun/mocks me, despite my begs and pleads not to.
I've talked to a lot of people about it. I've changed. I don't get mad anymore. I let little things blow over. I pick my battles, and, I don't want any battles.

I suggested counseling for both of us, at the suggestion of my counselor. He said we can't afford it. I said your insurance will cover it, there is free or cheap help available.

Finally today I had to cancel our plans last minute because of the tension. I said "Why do you want to be married to me anymore?" He can't come up with anything nice to say about me. He "thought things could have gotten better one day." But just last week he said how he finally admitted to himself that he had a lot of anger and contempt towards me for my career choices the past 2 years.

I've tried tiny little goals. 2 weeks ago it was just to touch each other- with a hand, or sit nearby. I was the only one trying. My begging to please do the one thing I can't handle- make fun and laugh at me- well, I don't know if there's a day that goes by without it. I can blow it off now almost all the times on the outside, but not the inside.

No kids, no cheating, no real money involved. We've moved far from my family (I wasn't close anyway) and my career keeps me traveling, so not many close friends. Most friends are mutual friends/couple I can't confide in. We both come from screwed up families, which doesn't help at all.

Do I just give up now, as I'm pretty young? Or is there something I am missing, something more I cold try. I literally have tried doing things so differently- and changing has been tough- but I have done it, and tried my very hardest. I stopped saying words like always, never, and literally I just don't get mad. He noticed it, and things were better for a while, but now it seems like he ups the anty to get me mad. I still don't get mad, just sad. He used to get very sad seeing me so upset. :sadsmile: Now he will keep going, until I'm about to suffocate from crying so hard, 'to get his point across and be heard.'

I purposely say kind things, thankful things. I did so today, several times, I remember exactly when. He just came over and said how I am "never" appreciative of his hard work. (Nevermind all mine...)

I used to run and leave when I felt this hopeless. I never had anywhere to go but I left anyway. I stopped leaving this year, to show how committed I was to making this work. But all I want to do is pack my stuff, and go to work, far far away from here and never come back. :uhoh:

We do have animals, and own the property, and long time back he proudly said he'd take care of all the animals for me, and even be so 'kind' as to not kick me out, until I get my feet on the ground and get my own set up. So, I guess I don't have to worry about taking the horses with me....

Sounds to me like you live with a bully. And if I were you I'd show HIM the door instead of acting like the mat in front of it. Your unwillingness to stand up for yourself is what he's feeding on, people can only treat you badly if you let them. Time to get a backbone if you want to leave this behind with any self-respect, methinks....

magicteetango
Nov. 26, 2009, 10:29 PM
Leave.

I have never been married, but I had a mean live in boyfriend, like yours. I couldn't clean well enough, cook well enough, he told his friends how I was just average in bed, I only looked okay with makeup on, his female friends all looked better than me, you name it, he said it. Sad part? I believed it.

I've been fighting so hard to regain my confidence. I used to be a very secure person, but it took it all away. I tried my hardest, but my hardest was never good enough. In turn, it turned me into a snappy, mean person who felt attacked constantly. It has affected my work, and numerous dating attempts for a long time as well.

I left, finally. A friend of mine took my moment of desperation, and she ran with it. She picked me up, all my stuff, my four horses, and moved me into her home for a price I could afford to pay to live and keep them there. She made sure I had something to fall back on, to support me whenever I felt weak. And I never looked back, thank god.

He's been obsessive for over a year now, despite the fact that he has a new girlfriend who is due with their child in short time. He claims leaving him made him realize what an ass he'd been, and how much he regretted it. In the next breath, he would tell me he never loved me until I left, and that he never changed because he felt sure I'd never leave so why did he have to?

Please don't stick around long enough for this to change you. I live in the Central PA area and I am more than happy to try and assist you to find a place for horses and self here. Please PM me if you need any assistance or just to talk, I know how it feels to an extent (not married).

Petstorejunkie
Nov. 26, 2009, 10:31 PM
My father gave me a piece of advice when i was younger that i think is so helpful.
Never invest in a relationship until you have invested $5k socked away somewhere that only you know about. That way if things get weird you can walk, take a month or two to sort your stuff out and get on with your life.

onelanerode
Nov. 26, 2009, 10:33 PM
I've been married a little more than three years, so I'm probably not qualified to respond to this. But you've got more than just "not getting along" going on here. Your guy sounds like a real dick. Maybe he didn't start out that way, but it sure sounds like he's lost any respect he once had for you.

Are there any good reasons to stay with this guy? He doesn't sound like he's interested in changing his (appalling) behavior anytime soon (maybe because he knows you'll put up with it?).

Money's important, but so is your happiness (which money cannot buy). You only get this one life. Don't get to the end wishing you hadn't wasted so much time with butt-munch.

If your friend who's in the abusive relationship is a good friend, maybe y'all can make an escape plan together ... if nothing else, it'll help with the money part. It's almost always cheaper to split rent, groceries, etc.

My hat's off to you for how hard you've tried so far. I could not put up with that BS ... even if it meant eating Ramen for a year and moving into the parents' basement.

Taking that step is the hardest part. Once you do it, and you get over the initial OMG what have I done, you'll wonder what the hell took you so long. :yes:

Good luck. (((hugs))) Keep us posted?

chizmom
Nov. 26, 2009, 10:36 PM
Be careful about him suggesting that he'll take care of the critters while you leave YOUR home and try to find another living situation. He might not care for the animals just to be mean. He'll be in the power position living in YOUR house and in control of the critters you love. Then he can really jerk you around. I'm sorry for your troubles. Get some legal advice before you do anything.

BAlter
Nov. 26, 2009, 10:48 PM
All good sound advice.

To be fair, there are 2 sides. He says I am non appreciative. I leave too much of a burden, and managing a farm alone is a lot. I'm utterly stressful. I'm broke. I'm mean, I pick fights. Today, at the store, I said we already have some of that pasta, in fact, 2 other packages, we don't need more. He took it as my bossiness. I meant it as we are supposed to be cutting costs and I didnt think he knew we had some, already, at home. I reminded him if he wanted to pick pasta as a battle. He did. Maybe I am a real bitch. Very possible with all this.

He had a very rough upbringing. Dad left, mom was very verbally and sometimes physically abusive. I found her stealing a lot of money from him and really convinved him he was worthless. He was heartbroken at her, and rightfully so. They're on the best terms they can be now, many years later, but it's like he talks to me now the way he would talk to her.

In the past he says the reason he loves me, and would like to work it out, is because I have opened his eyes to so many things and am such a caring person. But now he says he hates the decisions we've made and feels like it was all a mistake.

Sounds like I should push the counseling option. For nothing else, I want *him* to have a great life- he is truly a great guy at heart and deserves it. We werent always like this. If he doesn't want to help himself, then, there is nothing I can do. He's started to read some of the books I've brought home, but obviously, that's not enough.

Some of you probably "know" me and I'm not known to be a doormat. I wish I had $5K tucked away to say F'off.... I used to but don't anymore. I'm ashamed to use an alter, but very greatful for the sound advice. :p And people who listen.

magicteetango
Nov. 26, 2009, 10:53 PM
The other boarder at my barn had a crazy (clinically) husband. He was supposed to care for her horses after she moved out. He did not feed them, not a handful of grain on the property when she went to go and get them, and not a bale of hay. Please do not leave your horses on the property if you do leave. The day you go, they go.

I'm sorry but BAlter... not sure if you married my ex, lol. That sounds just like him. He also had a very tough childhood, but it's kind of like horses... that's not an excuse for his behavior, and it's not your responsibility to fix or save him.

If you'd like to try and lighten the load, try and find a boarder who will have reduced or free board (as in they pay for grain and feed) in exchange for feeding some or all of the time you are gone. This will give him less excuses to act out.

LLDM
Nov. 26, 2009, 10:59 PM
This is just an impression, but he sounds angry. I mean at you. It almost sounds like he thinks you are the one who is bailing out on him. You said that you've made career choices that have taken you away for long periods of time - is that right?

Why not ask him? He may have thought that you would have kids by now, be more settled, be closer not farther apart. Do you leave him home with the animals, the work, the land - all by himself. Is he resenting you checking out on him? You also say that when things get bad you leave.

Again, this is just a thought based on what you have written. Sometimes you need to fight. If he is trying to fight it out with you and you are just "getting calmer" he may feel that you simply don't care any more - not even enough to argue. He is acting like someone who feels abandoned already.

I am NOT justifying his behavior. I am NOT taking his side, telling you to stay or placing any blame. I am simply trying to do as you asked, which is to answer the question, "am I missing anything?" Maybe you are.

If he is telling you that he resents the choices you've made in the last couple of years, then you should probably believe him. In a marriage, those choices should be made together - as you both have to live with them. It seems that he can't. And it kind of seems like you have chosen your job over him (and your home and animals). At least that is one way to look at it. Put yourself in his shoes... how would you feel?

It's not right, but often a spouse will try to hurt their partner as much as they feel they have been made to hurt. So if he pushes you until you are completely devastated, maybe he is completely devastated already and simply can't believe you haven't noticed.

It sounds to me like there is more pain than anything. And a huge amount of things unsaid. Whether the marriage survives or not, those things need to be said (and heard). If nothing else they will help you heal. Best case they will heal your marriage.

Good Luck to you.

SCFarm

Roxyllsk
Nov. 26, 2009, 11:02 PM
I stayed in a really crappy marraige for entirely too long. He would also always put me down, was always very negative about everything, and tried to be controlling. AND he lied constantly. We tried counseling 2x, and he would make an effort while we were in couseling, but once we stopped going, things would slide back the way they were before. He was very, very different before we married (and we were engaged for almost 3 years), and I realize now that is now who he really was. I spent so much time trying to make a miserable person happy that I gave up my own happiness.

I realize a lot of the belittling was because he was insecure that my career was more successful than his, and it was his way of making himself feel better. What finally helped me to make the decision I should have made years ago came when he was in Iraq and gone for 3 years. I wanted him to come home safe, I didn't want anything bad to happen to him, but I honestly didn't miss him at all. I was a much happier person. He wasn't there to drag me down or make me feel bad about myself.

So, I decided that once he was back home safe & sound I would tell him that I wanted a divorce. I was nervous to be out on my own as I had never done that before, but honestly, there is ALWAYS a way. Yes, I've had to cut back on a lot of things - I only have the one horse now, I don't compete very much, and I have to watch my pennies - BUT I am so much happier than I've been in years. I have lots of friends that I hang out with, and I'm so glad to be out from under that negative influence that I'm not in any hurry to get in another relationship at this point in my life.

You really CAN do it. You will have to make some sacrifices. It will be difficult at first. But there will come a day when you know in your heart that you've done the right thing.

You deserve so much better, he's not worthy of you.

Trixie
Nov. 26, 2009, 11:03 PM
If he won't go to counseling, go alone. It won't hurt, might help.

Good luck to you!

MunchkinsMom
Nov. 26, 2009, 11:07 PM
You have my sympathies, it sounds like you gave it the best shot, and he is not even attempting to meet you half way. I've been there and done that.

My first marriage was a disaster even before we walked down the aisle, but I was young and foolish enough to think that he would become more secure after the rings were on. Wrong! He got worse. We went to counseling after I said I was leaving. After 10 weeks with the counselor, we had seperate sessions, where the counselor told me that I had two choices, stay with him and be miserable or get out. I told him I was going home to pack.

It was easier for me, I moved back home with my mother (who never liked husband number 1 anyway), and had no animals and no property, I didn't even have a car. Well, it was ugly for a while since we also worked together at the same small company for a few months until I left the job too.

At any rate, even if you can't convince him to go see a counselor, go just for yourself, and also get legal advice, since there is property involved, if you are in a community property state, you are entitled to half the assets. And if he makes more money, you will most likely qualify for alimony also.

Pally
Nov. 26, 2009, 11:24 PM
Be careful about him suggesting that he'll take care of the critters while you leave YOUR home and try to find another living situation. He might not care for the animals just to be mean. He'll be in the power position living in YOUR house and in control of the critters you love. Then he can really jerk you around. I'm sorry for your troubles. Get some legal advice before you do anything.

This comes to my mind too, because although I don't know all the details, a "bad divorce" was cited as the reason my horse was neglected a couple of years ago. I feel terrible bringing it up when you are already feeling so much pressure, but I think it's better that you consider it now and not after the fact.

But I do think I'm with those who say go, this is mean and disrespectful stuff. Ideally you would try counseling before you actually go, as it definitely sounds like the other issues are underlying the marriage ones. But if you can't get him to go, you can't just keep on living like you're living now.

As for you being not the nicest either, good for admitting it. Don't underestimate how strong the "viscous cycle" of negative emotions can get in a relationship. Every negative act or thought that is met with or creates negativity in the other person drags you guys further into it. Sometimes breaking the cycle does mean breaking the relationship. In my case, while it didn't bring a complete 180 in our individual issues, it did give us both a huge first step and sigh of relief. Now, we can react much differently (and healthier) to tough certain situations than we would have before, knowing now we only have to emotionally invest as a friend, not as a partner.

Good luck!

Go Fish
Nov. 26, 2009, 11:31 PM
Hon, I may be wrong on this, but the more you write, the more you are sounding like an abused wife. Those who have recommended counseling, I would agree, if you don't have the strength to either kick him to the curb or walk out. Do you have health insurance?

You need to seriously ask the question, "why do I stick around and take this abuse, and on top of that, make excuses for him?" Counseling may be able to help you answer that and move on with your life.

EqTrainer
Nov. 26, 2009, 11:38 PM
Anyone that cuts you down like that, belittles you or makes fun of you, is not worth having around. From what you describe in your post, the stuff he is doing to you is hurtful and abusive.

Peace out, now, and don't look back.

And don't make the same mistake again, so be sure you get some counseling for yourself, ASAP.

Hugs to you.

Please listen to my soul sister. She is so correct. Move on now, you have done all you need to do or can do.

Big hugs to you!

Miss Motivation
Nov. 26, 2009, 11:39 PM
My father gave me a piece of advice when i was younger that i think is so helpful.
Never invest in a relationship until you have invested $5k socked away somewhere that only you know about. That way if things get weird you can walk, take a month or two to sort your stuff out and get on with your life.
I learned that too, in a similar way, with a boyfriend who was... controlling, mean, insecure...

Taxi Money meant having enough cash attached to my person at any time to get away from him. Sad, though, that I used my Taxi Money more than once before I finally figured out that this was not a life I should be leading.

I still always have enough money on me to take a taxi away from wherever or whatever I am doing.

Above and beyond that, I have worked hard to get more security in life, and that extends to things like having accounts at a couple different banks, credit cards I never use but could... like a spy movie, I could probably disappear for a couple weeks and not be found, but now with a son and a much nicer husband, I hope that's never a consideration.

JanM
Nov. 27, 2009, 12:18 AM
You've already decided to leave somehow haven't you? If you weren't thinking about how to get away you wouldn't have asked us. Like Dear Abby says "When you ask the question, you already have decided on the answer". I agree with the posters that say you can't leave your animals behind or they will probably suffer or disappear suddenly. It wouldn't be the first bully who punished an ex-by hurting or killing her animals. Why should he stay in the house? You have just as much claim in the house and maybe more-you could get a roommate who takes care of the animals when you travel (maybe your girlfriend would move in and do that? That would help both of your situations). It is awful to live in fear of verbal or any other abuse and you are too good to live like this. You have to save yourself and coming here was the first step. Good luck.

redkat
Nov. 27, 2009, 12:58 AM
I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but you can add me to the growing list of people who stayed in a relationship like this for too long. It took me 9 months to gather enough resources to get out, but I finally did it and it's been the best thing I could've done.

My ex-BF (unmarried, but living together,) resented me, called me an ingrate, put me down, complained about everything, and then was upset because I was not as "affectionate" as I had been. Which...HOW? How do you stay affectionate with someone who treats you so badly? And this is all while we were contributing financially in proportion to our incomes. He should not have been able to resent me financially, because we talked about and agreed on everything up front.

In my case, there was also infidelity involved on his part (when I was already planning on leaving.) That was the final straw for me. While he says he never slept with the person, the fact that he still cheated on me on an emotional level was enough to irreparably breach the trust I had in him. There wasn't anything to fix at that point.

I think you know, deep down, that you want to leave. I dithered about it. I went to therapy. The therapist looked at me and said, "WHY are you still with this man if he makes you feel that way? Tell me." and I had no good answer. What I needed then was a plan. It look me a while to pool the resources to make a soft landing, but I did it. Nothing is impossible.

You deserve someone that you don't have to stop being yourself for. You deserve happiness and someone who loves you back. Don't stay in a situation like this because of finances. It might be overwhelming while you're processing what's happened to your marriage, and go talk to someone if you can. But the important thing here is to make sure that you're getting what you want and what you need.

Equilibrium
Nov. 27, 2009, 01:27 AM
Well I've been married for 9 years and we really have to work at it. No we don't have one of those marriages in which we never fight. Both of us are defensive creatures! Now it's more constructive and I do realize he vents differently than I do.

When we first moved to Ireland he got really nasty and because I was somewhere I had no support system, I sort of let him. That got old quickly and I had to nip it in the bud.

Of course, then I met his brothers, sisters, and mother and I had a much better understanding of how he works! That would be a whole nother can of worms, but understood his lashing out was entirely insecurity. And being Irish, counseling is a no no.

I'd say about 5 years ago I was ready to leave for good, but we worked through things and got everything back on an even keel. If he makes a comment about the house, then I tell him do it yourself. If he whines about how much more he thinks he does, I tell him to go to the pub and tell all his buddies how his 100pd wife can't really move things like round bales on her own. You know the buddies who's wives have cleaners, don't work and spend money faster than they make it. Wants to complain about my cooking - you can cook, and he does. No I'm not perfect and for years I tried to be and that got old. When he used to complain about me I tried to make everything right. I don't play that game anymore. I work my butt off the same as he does so I won't be treated like crap.

Yesterday he had a vent fest out of sheer frustration on a couple of matters and I just let him go. He needed to vent and he got seriously annoyed with me over trivial things, but I just let it go. He apologized later on and I knew he was sorry. I'd rather him get it out than stew in silence which is what he used to do.

I'm sorry for what you're going through. I don't know either of you as people so can't comment on your individual situation. Just be true to yourself and no matter what money is like, you have to try and make the situation right for you and the animals. It's times like these I wish there were "secret" barns and homes where people could take their animals and take time to get things right for themselves without all the worry.

Good Luck,

Terri

BAlter
Nov. 27, 2009, 11:47 AM
I'd say about 5 years ago I was ready to leave for good, but we worked through things and got everything back on an even keel.

What made things better? I've tried that approach, and it seems, 1 step forward 2 steps back sometimes. He seems more and more frustrated, and I guess I wonder, how much more can (or should) I give to this relationship, at my expense? At some point I have to look out for me.

Most importantly, I'm losing a lot of my passion and love for other things, giving so much into the relationship. I barely want to ride, etc.


It's times like these I wish there were "secret" barns and homes where people could take their animals and take time to get things right for themselves without all the worry.
:yes:

asb_own_me
Nov. 27, 2009, 12:12 PM
This may have already been said but it bears repeating - there are many types of abuse in relationships. Abuse isn't always physical. In fact, that's probably the rarest kind. More often, relationships are emotionally abusive.

Your not-dear DH sounds like a champion emotional abuser.

My marriage is far from perfect, and has been floundering on the rocks for over a year now. If we didn't have the horses/dogs/property, I would have left with a duffel bag a year ago - and he is NOT any type of abuser. He's wonderful. The love's just lost and I can't find it. What stops me from leaving is a lack of feasible alternatives for those things I love so much - the horses and the dogs. And I'm not in an abusive relationship - but you ARE. Soul searching time.

So this is the question, at least in my mind. What can you live with, and what can you not live without?

annikak
Nov. 27, 2009, 12:15 PM
I was married to a great guy- and I was not young (30). We had a child, and this child has a lot of medical problems. We had no money (he was horrid with money and covered it up) and also went elsewhere to get some of his frustrations taken care of. (yes, *that*). I knew, but ignored until I was such a mess I could not even go to work and manage things at home. Had the whole range of feelings, and thought about suicide. Ended up in the hospital for a short stint (2 weeks). Stayed with him still.

Silly, huh?? I had been a single mom with my first child for 11 years- handled everything just fine. BUt when it came to this? I wanted it to work. He was not mean at all, was funny, sweet and kind. But dishonest about money and unfaithful with whomever was willing. Eventually I decided enough was enough.

Flash forward to today (12 years later). Married again, to a great man, whom I love dearly. Yes- it's not perfect, but I don't think anything is. But the good outweighs the bad BIG time. He loves me, and I love him.

Do what you must to as this is one life, and it's a hellofa lot shorter then we might like. Being in a happy, committed marriage (of whatever kind works for you) is worth it. Being single is worth it, too, if that makes you happy. Having a relationship that takes up emotional energy in a negative way is just not any good.

Good Luck to you!!!

Equilibrium
Nov. 27, 2009, 12:20 PM
What made things better? I've tried that approach, and it seems, 1 step forward 2 steps back sometimes. He seems more and more frustrated, and I guess I wonder, how much more can (or should) I give to this relationship, at my expense? At some point I have to look out for me.

Most importantly, I'm losing a lot of my passion and love for other things, giving so much into the relationship. I barely want to ride, etc.


:yes:

The only thing that made things better is that my husband tried too. Both of us tried together. It never would have worked if only one of us tried and that's what seems to be happening in your relationship.

I'll tell you a story of a friend of mine in Ireland. When I first started hanging out at her house for a coffee I noticed some weird happenings. She and her husband never spoke and the kids called him by his first name not Dad. Now being as how I just met this woman I didn't really think it my place to ask questions. But then in the barn they seemed to get along fine and work as a team. Finally after 3 months I got up the nerve to find out what was going on. They had been "separated" for 10 years. They lived in the same house with different rooms and carried on completely separate lives. Home was neutral ground and that's just the way it was. They did work togther ok with the horses but that wasn't an everyday situation.

They did end up divorced only a couple of years ago, but you see in Ireland it only became legal to divorce not too long ago so you had many couples such as these. Also the money factor meant each earned their own living and they paid bills for the children together but everything else was their own.

When my friend realized her husband was not going to try in the slightest to get things back on track she basically started her life over even though they lived together in the same house. No it wasn't an ideal situation but she quit feeling guilty and just did what she had to do. She's an amazing person really because I could never see myself doing that and staying sane!:no:

Maybe that will make you feel a little better about yourself.

Terri

Alagirl
Nov. 27, 2009, 12:33 PM
All good sound advice.

To be fair, there are 2 sides. He says I am non appreciative. I leave too much of a burden, and managing a farm alone is a lot. I'm utterly stressful. I'm broke. I'm mean, I pick fights. Today, at the store, I said we already have some of that pasta, in fact, 2 other packages, we don't need more. He took it as my bossiness. I meant it as we are supposed to be cutting costs and I didnt think he knew we had some, already, at home. I reminded him if he wanted to pick pasta as a battle. He did. Maybe I am a real bitch. Very possible with all this.

He had a very rough upbringing. Dad left, mom was very verbally and sometimes physically abusive. I found her stealing a lot of money from him and really convinved him he was worthless. He was heartbroken at her, and rightfully so. They're on the best terms they can be now, many years later, but it's like he talks to me now the way he would talk to her.

In the past he says the reason he loves me, and would like to work it out, is because I have opened his eyes to so many things and am such a caring person. But now he says he hates the decisions we've made and feels like it was all a mistake.

Sounds like I should push the counseling option. For nothing else, I want *him* to have a great life- he is truly a great guy at heart and deserves it. We werent always like this. If he doesn't want to help himself, then, there is nothing I can do. He's started to read some of the books I've brought home, but obviously, that's not enough.

Some of you probably "know" me and I'm not known to be a doormat. I wish I had $5K tucked away to say F'off.... I used to but don't anymore. I'm ashamed to use an alter, but very greatful for the sound advice. :p And people who listen.


Well, if you are not a doormat now, you are working hard to become one.

I am saying that with a big hug.

Your story kinda makes me think of this one Roseanne episode, were she gives in to all her boss's demands to cut a deal for her coworkers and then he double crosses her "He doesn't want me to be OK"

Fighting over Pasta? That is such a lame thing. That is LOOKING for discord!

Maybe you are not mean enough to him. I have been told kids marry their parents, in good as in bad. A friend of mine was in a marriage from hell, he was not the Momma he wanted to have, yell at him and cut him down. She was brought up to be subserviant and obidient...took her over 20 years to break free of that with many psychological scars.

I can understand where he is having issues with the farm and such things in these times, but there are ways to deal with this other than being an Ass, and we are not talking donkey here either!

If you can't get him to go, go get yourself some counseling! It will make a lot of issues clearer for you.

chai
Nov. 27, 2009, 12:35 PM
BAlter, I am sending you a big hug. You have already received such sound advice here, especially from grandprixjumper who pointed out that we don't know the intimate details of your situation, so I hope you will weigh all suggestions with care, mine too.

Because my sister was in a similar situation, I saw the destruction a man like this can do. The damage is on the inside, and women who have had their self esteem crushed are often embarrassed to admit the situation they are in. I hope that being able to come here, even with an alter, to put your thoughts down and examine your situation will be the first step for you in putting yourself first and moving forward with a plan.

If he refuses to go to counseling and you are tapped out financially, I think your plan to concentrate on yourself, working with your counselor, is a good one. If he is belittling you, laughing at you and exhibiting verbally abusive behavior, you are smart to not play into it, but limit your exposure to him while you plan your next move.

Can you start squirreling money away for an escape route? Even though you are not close to your family, perhaps they will help you get back on your feet if you decide to leave and start over. You might also consider a live in farm care position if you are really broke and have just had enough and want to get away while you regroup.

I know how hard this is, on so many levels, because I had a front row seat to my sister's torment at the hands of an abusive husband, a fact she hid from my family for years and years until it almost destroyed her. Her husband took care of that. Women have a tendency to take on guilt and responsibility that is not theirs to carry, so please don't let yourself fall into that trap. Life is too short to allow someone else to dictate who you are or tear you apart from the inside out. It sounds like your husband grew up with destructive patterns that have returned when the chips are down, but you deserve better.

Please be good to yourself and look for a women's group that may be able to help you with an escape plan if it gets too bad. If you ever want to vent, please feel free to PM me. Best of luck to you.

BAlter
Nov. 27, 2009, 12:42 PM
Many months ago I laid down the law, and said we both either try 100% and give everything we can, or walk now (or, like Equil. said, live seperate lives in the same house until one can walk).

He cried, said of so much good he'd learned from me, so much I opened his eyes to some things, and said he'd do whatever it takes. I really think he is trying- the best he knows how. I didn't have work today- he did- and he came over to where I slept (guest room) and tried to say goodbye and kiss me. I just cried and said have a better day... and asked him what he expected me to say? He left without saying anything else.

The "making fun of" is a lot of sarcasm (which, he learned from me...) and mocking. I was very quilty of it for a while, too, but finally realized how much it ws not helping, anything, and told him this summer how I really want to be more accepting and less judgemental. Now that I'm more aware, it hurts more. He gets angry- or laughs- when I said please stop making fun of me. I was one of those kids always picked on in school, anyway, always talked down to by parents, so, I'm sure I'm much more sensitive than the average girl.

I feel in my heart, well, I don't really know. That's an odd feeling for me, I have strong gut feelings that lead me in the right direction. I feel like I should ask him why he's so angry, and say he needs to seek counseling. I did go to counseling, my health isurance max was hit (and I maxed out what I could pay out of pocket) so I'm on my own until next year. He still has benefits available. I've tried pointing out before that there always "drama" and anger somewhere- if it can't be at work, family, neighbors, than it always comes back to me. And I don't want it anymore.

I guess, for those of you married 5+ years, a happy marriage is one with more good times than bad, eh? Respect, dignity, and empathy are probably involved, too. Seems like we've lost that, no matter how hard I (we) try, I don't know if it's possible to get it back.

Sunny's Mom
Nov. 27, 2009, 01:16 PM
I'm in a bit of a rush so I haven't had time to read the other responses, but I'm one of the folks that thinks you should give counseling a go. I've only been married 6 months, but I had to take us to counseling very early in the marriage because things were not working. It has been a hard road and its going to be a hard road for years to come too, but I think we are on the way to recovery.

One of the biggest things he will need (and maybe you too, I can't tell) is to eliminate contempt from your relationship. It's a big relationship killer. If you can't get it under control (especially him) your marriage probably won't survive no matter what you do.

It is worth the money (for counseling) to try to figure out if your marriage can be saved. Your economic situation will go down a lot it sounds like...and that can't be discounted. You will be hurt emotionaly and financially by leaving him.

I think the little things you are trying to do are a good start and you should keep up with that. Sometimes it takes one person bending for the other person to start to come around. Being "right" isn't what matters, trying to build a relationship of trust and connection is what matters. when someone says mean things, you should say "you know, I would you wouldn't say things like that, it really hurt me, it made me feel like you thought [I was stupid]" or however it made you feel, etc. He might respond sarcastically, but if you are patient maybe he will think about it later and realize he's being a dick.

I think that being married is very difficult and I had no idea what I was getting into when I said "yes", etc. But I know the man I fell in love with is in there, and I just have to help him find his potential.

BAlter
Nov. 27, 2009, 01:35 PM
One of the biggest things he will need (and maybe you too, I can't tell) is to eliminate contempt from your relationship. It's a big relationship killer. If you can't get it under control (especially him) your marriage probably won't survive no matter what you do.
That's been proven scientifically, too. ;) I do a lot of reading, know a lot about psych., and I showed him a chapter about it not very long ago.



I think that being married is very difficult and I had no idea what I was getting into when I said "yes", etc. But I know the man I fell in love with is in there, and I just have to help him find his potential.
Amen, sista'




So, I called him at work, and asked if there was anything ot be said. I got one of the most sincere, truthful "I'm sorry" that I ever heard. It's been a long time since I've heard that without sarcasm or blame tied into it, or the word "but" afterwards. I said I feel like the respect and love are gone, and I don't know what to do, because everything I have tried, hasn't been good enough. I got the 2nd most sincere I'm sorry. He was working, and around others, and couldn't speak very freely. We'll see what tonight brings.

I'm looking into the Retrouvaille. There is not one in my area
for months, and I'm willing to take a 12 hr road trip next weekend to one....

arghhalter
Nov. 27, 2009, 01:42 PM
He might respond sarcastically, but if you are patient maybe he will think about it later and realize he's being a dick.

He already knows he is being 'a dick'. Unless he is unemployable or in jail because of uncontrollable behaviour, he absolutely is aware that what he is doing is wrong. Most likely, he'll think about it and justify his behaviour as being completely your fault because you deserved it. If you didn't X, then he wouldn't Y. YOU make him angry. Unhappy. Mean. Grumpy. Take your pick.

It still astounds me the way my husband sometimes treats me. He would NEVER EVER treat a co-worker, friend or neighbor like that.

My heart goes out to you BA. Reading this thread really hits close to home for me. All the best to you.

Respect, dignity and empathy.

HighFlyinBey++
Nov. 27, 2009, 01:45 PM
http://helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects .htm

Emotional or psychological abuse

The aim of emotional or psychological abuse is to chip away at your feelings of self-worth and independence. If you’re the victim of emotional abuse, you may feel that there is no way out of the relationship, or that without your abusive partner you have nothing.

Emotional abuse includes verbal abuse such as yelling, name-calling, blaming, and shaming. Isolation, intimidation, and controlling behavior also fall under emotional abuse. Additionally, abusers who use emotional or psychological abuse often throw in threats of physical violence.

You may think that physical abuse is far worse than emotional abuse, since physical violence can send you to the hospital and leave you with scars. But, the scars of emotional abuse are very real, and they run deep. In fact, emotional abuse can be just as damaging as physical abuse—sometimes even more so. Furthermore, emotional abuse usually worsens over time, often escalating to physical battery.

Four years ago, I left a husband who was much like the OP's. It wasn't easy but I'm a lot happier. From what I'm told, my ex is still mad at the world.

OP, I wish you the best of luck. You've got a hard road ahead of you.

arghhalter
Nov. 27, 2009, 01:48 PM
I got one of the most sincere, truthful "I'm sorry" that I ever heard.

After one particularly bad incident, my husband came out to the barn and wept about how sorry he was. And how he wanted things to be better. And how he would do anything to take responsibility for his actions.

He did. For a while.

But it's like blowing up a balloon. Every time you let the air out of the balloon and then blow it up again, it's never quite the same. I'm still holding the string though.

HighFlyinBey++
Nov. 27, 2009, 01:59 PM
My ex cried all the time about how sorry he was and how he was going to change, yadda yadda yadda.

Nothing ever changed and the cycle would repeat itself over and over and over....