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littletuna
Nov. 26, 2009, 04:14 PM
In an event prospect? I know everyone has different needs/preferences, but i guess in general? Definitely not heading to the Rolex or anything, but a low level, capable event horse? Thoroughbreds -- good or bad?

Also, slightly more off topic but what would you expect a 4 year old TB to be like after 90ish (maybe more like 100 now) days prof. training? I found a mare i really like, selling cheap before the trainer moves to Ocala in Feb. and owner has 2 other horses to pay board for. But, she tells me she w/t/c and has started over xrails. Is super quiet, rides in just a snaffle, kick to go type -- not spooky/overly sensitive. The videos show her in an outdoor (field) and she looks pretty slow, very quiet -- doesn't run into the canter. But is that realistic? I know every horse is different and i guess i'll see when i go to look at her, but she sounds too good to be true for a 4 coming 5 year old!

EDIT: Thought i should mention she is NOT off the track.

yellowbritches
Nov. 26, 2009, 04:55 PM
I look for a good brain and a good canter and decently put together. I prefer TBs or horses that are very, very heavy in the TB department (full TB is always my first choice). While a nice trot is a nice thing to have, a good canter is a MUST and I will sacrifice a good trot for a good canter any day (especially if I am fairly certain the trot can be improved, like I was with my horse).

What you describe sounds totally realistic for a young horse in professional training. I would say that most of the young horses that we've had come through here (whether off the track or out of the field) have been able to do that more or less easily within 3 to 4 months. We will start popping them over little things as soon as they understand forward and straight, just to get them started with the concept of "jump."

PS- My now 5 coming 6 year old had done a handful of novices by this time last year, and he's NOT uncommon.

purplnurpl
Nov. 26, 2009, 05:41 PM
I look for a good brain and a good canter and decently put together. I prefer TBs or horses that are very, very heavy in the TB department (full TB is always my first choice). While a nice trot is a nice thing to have, a good canter is a MUST and I will sacrifice a good trot for a good canter any day (especially if I am fairly certain the trot can be improved, like I was with my horse).

What you describe sounds totally realistic for a young horse in professional training. I would say that most of the young horses that we've had come through here (whether off the track or out of the field) have been able to do that more or less easily within 3 to 4 months. We will start popping them over little things as soon as they understand forward and straight, just to get them started with the concept of "jump."

PS- My now 5 coming 6 year old had done a handful of novices by this time last year, and he's NOT uncommon.

ditto.
I will add, though, for those of us used to riding and bringing along younger horses, what we may find very simple and straight forward may actually be difficult in disguise.

I do caution riders when buying young/green horses.

asterix
Nov. 26, 2009, 06:43 PM
Very good advice already.

2 more things:

1. "TB good or bad" -- for a lower level horse (up through Preliminary), it's about the horse in question, not the breed. Lots of great TBs out there, lots of crosses. I have a wb who is a wonderful amateur horse through Prelim, and a draft cross who easily moved up to Training this year and I expect will go Prelim in time. Ponies work, all kinds of interesting crosses work. My friend has a pony-size crazy cross (you wouldn't believe it if I told you what he was) that will move up to prelim this year. Can jump the moon, stunning movement.

Do not be biased, be open. TBs are wonderful but for BN-P you have lots of options.

2. If you are new to eventing, and the horse is very green, THAT I would really think twice about. If the horse has been out on xc and seems to "get" it, has a great brain, and you will be in a good program with an experienced event trainer, this could well work. But it is not easy at all to learn how to be a xc rider while teaching a total greenbean how to be a xc horse.

I'd be more interested for a first event horse in a horse that was at least going novice sensibly.

littletuna
Nov. 26, 2009, 06:56 PM
Thanks for all the advice already, glad to hear that her description is totally reasonable for 90 days, but i guess i will see when i go try her!

RE Asterix: She would be more my all purpose horse (given she has the abilities). I have never evented, but H/Js are getting kind of old for me so was looking to start learning a new circuit. I wasn't going to get her with the intent of eventing right away, i cringe at the thought of putting myself out on xc on a little greenbean! Was going to make sure she's solid on the flat and lower level dressage and work on scope, timing, etc for the 2-3ft range for a year or two with her while i took lessons for xc until i feel solid there. Never works to have a young horse learning the same things you are!

asterix
Nov. 27, 2009, 01:02 AM
sounds very sensible; if she's got a great brain you will probably have a blast! good luck!

findeight
Nov. 27, 2009, 09:09 AM
Also, slightly more off topic but what would you expect a 4 year old TB to be like after 90ish (maybe more like 100 now) days prof. training?... w/t/c and has started over xrails. Is super quiet, rides in just a snaffle, kick to go type -- not spooky/overly sensitive. The videos show her in an outdoor (field) and she looks pretty slow, very quiet -- doesn't run into the canter. But is that realistic? ...but she sounds too good to be true for a 4 coming 5 year old!


Ummmm...maybe, maybe not. See, that first 90 days or so is actually the easiest part of the training. Because they don't know any different, are a little scared and have not learned they don't actually have to or that they are bigger. It's all new.

When you get farther along things can change. ALL horses love to just putz around and hop rails and crossrails-when they have to start with the collect/extend/jump scary stuff and exert themselves? Not so much.

Also possible this youngster has never been in a regular program. Coming 5 for a TB, I'd expect a few more miles on them, she may never have really done much. And that begs the question why?

Not saying no, mind you. Just don't put too much stock in anything the seller says-any seller-and a video of that horse at home in the field going slow may only mean they got it real tired. And it is at home, not in a strange field. Not too challenging.

If you persue it, find out why it has been sitting almost 5 years and only has 90 days on it-and I would get the PPE. Nobody breeds a race horse and does not at least try to get it to the track. Even the most conservative WB breeders/owners would have more then 90 days on a coming 5 year old. Be sure you know why this one has been sitting so long.

Beam Me Up
Nov. 27, 2009, 12:03 PM
I love TBs myself, but there are good and bad (both in terms of athleticism and brain) horses of all breeds. Personally I look for an uphill build and gallop, and (as much as you can determine early on) a good brain.

W/t/c and x-rails are a totally reasonable claim for 90 days. That said, she's still really green, and most of her event/jumping challenges lie ahead.

littletuna
Nov. 27, 2009, 12:49 PM
Findeight: Thanks for the advice! I just went with the common TB birthday of Jan 1st for the coming 5, i do not have her foal date on hand but the trainer told me she is currently four.

She was not bred for the intent of racing, was purchased by a private jumper owner. I believe she consciously made the decision to not start her until she was a little more developed both physically and mentally, and has been boarded at a training facility for Prof. starting (i.e the 90 days). Has 2 other competition horses, so i also think she just didnt have the money to be paying training board for three horses until the spring, too. Definitely been in a regular 5-day-a-week training program, and the field was just my bad description of their mini xc-field they school the younger ones in to desensitize.

But definitely hear you on the caution, not really putting any stock in her until i try her myself! I also don't expect her to be out frolicking around the xc course any time soon, the first question was more of a general question since i really only have an eye for H/J conformation/gaits since that's all i've ridden. Just was wondering if it is reasonable to expect a horse with 90+ days to be confident and calm w/t/c.

deltawave
Nov. 27, 2009, 01:12 PM
Good conformation is sort of a "must have", but beyond that I want a horse that LIKES its job, likes HAVING a job, and isn't full of a million quirks and potential landmines. A good egg. I don't care if they're great movers, will score 20 in dressage, or are a certain size, shape, or color. I want to have FUN. Give me one who likes eventing as much as I do, is committed to jumping the jumps, and is fun to be around. :yes:

Outyougo
Nov. 27, 2009, 08:06 PM
To Quote Jack LeGoff


1) A Good Mind
2) A Good Mind
3) A Good Mind

Ok if you want to compete at FEI levels

Add speed!

ok that was 20 years ago

midnightride
Nov. 27, 2009, 09:23 PM
To Quote Jack LeGoff


1) A Good Mind
2) A Good Mind
3) A Good Mind

Ok if you want to compete at FEI levels

Add speed!

ok that was 20 years ago

So,yes to agree with above quote! is is pretty much the mind that matters.... i have 2 yr olds that have been showing all year and 2 yr olds that are not even broken..... same owner, same goal but the horse was either ready or not....

I do hold suspect a 5 yr old that is so green, even if they were going SLOW she should be jumping more than Xrails and really should have shown (and this is more WB speed) TBs just flat out grow and mature faster and need more exposure to avoid them getting bored....;)

summerly
Nov. 28, 2009, 03:41 PM
My four coming five year old started off with pro trainer and was showing within three months with her after I had put a light foundation of flat and small jump stuff into him for about two months at home. His attitude is great, everything is made out to be fun and he likes his job with no doubts, loves, loves xcountry! He is a Irish TB, he did have a few unsuccesful racing starts, only in Ireland though, so i guess he has seen the "world" for his age. But he adjusted very well and we had a fun summer, now he is on winter holiday just to finish growing and keep his mind wonderful. Pick something that's going to be fun and enjoyable! I hate horse stress, no bueno!!

asterix
Nov. 28, 2009, 04:49 PM
In terms of what they "should" have done by now, that really varies a LOT. It is definitely something to ask and you can assess the answer you get, but there are all kinds of reasons why horses get off to a slower start; some may matter to you and some may not.

My draft cross was just barely 5 when I bought him. He was green as grass in the ring (ok, I am not sure he had ever been in a real ring with a fence) but was very broke out and about -- he had been started by a foxhunter, and was super calm about cantering in a group out in the fields, hopping over ditches, stone walls, down drops, going into water, etc.
But steering was pretty notional, he had never jumped anything structured (like trot poles, grids, etc -- it was all pretty natural stuff), and he only had one lead.

He came around very quickly and is lovely to ride now, 3 good phases. I'm glad in the end that he was so lightly worked - he was VERY much still growing through his 6 year old year!!

I vetted him thoroughly and had no timeline for bringing him along, so wasn't at all disappointed to be starting out at BN just before he turned 6.

So, while he certainly hadn't showed by 5, and while it took him good year to understand stadium, I thank his first owner every time I introduce him to something new on cross country; he has always been "oh, ok, that's cool" as we jump into water, do down steps, trakheners, coffins -- it's quite the treat!!!

kookicat
Nov. 28, 2009, 05:31 PM
In no particular order:

Full or mostly TB.
Good walk and canter, with straight movement.
Bold/brave.
Nicely put together, with good legs.
Good natural balance.