New Harness! Fit Q's...

[Sara417]

Hi,
I just bought my first new harness and was wanting an opinion about how it fits. I will use this to pull a simple 2 wheeled easy entry cart for the time being.

My pony "Peter" is FAT and HAIRY, please excuse him. :) He is built with NO withers at all, his back is as flat as a picnic table and he is as round as a whale.

The saddle of this harness digs into him on the very bottom back of the saddle on both sides. I cannot even slide my hand under it. Do I have it positioned correctly? Can I pad this, or should I keep shopping?

What about the rest of the fit? I think the breast plate should be a bit lower...(?) Does the breeching look to be the correct height?

What about the crupper? Every harness I have put on him, if I snug it up enough that it is above his anus (not laying directly on it), then it seems to pull the saddle back...

Help?

I can't figure out how to load pics on here... Please see Pete click here (http://5acredream.blogspot.com/2009/11/petes-new-harness_25.html) to see him. Thanks!

[nightmoves]

Your breast collar is too high.

[Cartfall]

A pad would raise the saddle some if it is thick enough and might get you the clearance you need.

The britchen is too high on his butt--On my horses it is about half way down the gaskin muscle. http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2884306530057548781axhcgv

Without seeing a front view of the harness in draft, it is hard to tell about the breast strap. But it appears to be too high--you need to find where his wind pipe/neck comes into his chest. It is very possible to cut off a horse;s wind by putting the chest strap too high. The breast strap should be low enough to give clearance of his wind pipe. Here is a photo of where it needs to be--
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1281642874057548781aMcbng

Cute ponie is Mr. Peter!!!

Good luck

[nightmoves]

Cartfall is that the same horse in both of your photos?

[Drive NJ]

To look at the fit of your harness
For starters - unbuckle the traces so you can see how the breast collar hangs. You want it to clear the bottom of the throat so it doesnt choke him as he pulls. You probably need to drop the neck strap one hole on each side and see how that looks

You should get a caveson for your bridle. You can actually use a riding bridle caveson if you dont have anything else. Run the caveson thru the cheekpiece loops above the bit (to hold the cheeks closer to the face.)

Your saddle does not look like it has tugloops attached - are those available? If not you need to get them so there is something to hold the shafts. It may need to move back an inch or two but it may just be a tough fit cuz of Pete's round figure (haha)

The breeching needs to come down -probably 2 holes on each side. What you are trying to prevent is the breeching riding up under his tail when you put some pressure on it. Again with Pete's roundness - it could easily slide up. Better to be a tiny bit low than too high
You also dont want it so low it sags or cups the bottom of his butt which would sweep his feet out from under him

The breeching is also on the narrow side and you might want to get a pad so it doesnt cut into his butt with pressure on it.

Based on his current build, the rein loops on the neckstrap may be too high to use and get a straight line from bit to hands - that is something you will have to see. You dont want the reins to go up and down between bit, reinloops, terrets and hands (It willnot be a completely straight line, but you dont want lots of angles either.

Depending on how stiff the crownpiece is, you may want to braid some mane and forelock together over the crown to keep it in place. Ponies can be very clever about shaking bridles off and he's got a lot of mane

Otherwise, it looks like you are on your way.

[Sara417]

Thanks a bunch!

Yes, there are tugloops attached, but they are really high on the saddle in the pic,and they almost blend in. It is a different configuration than I have seen before, but a step up from my old harness! I have not attempted to lower them yet.

Pete is such a weird shape, I swear I could set up an elegant place setting on his back, it is so flat!

I'll move the breastplate and breeching a bit lower. I had never considered padding the breeching, but that makes sense.

Any thoughts about fitting cruppers? It cant be right for it to touch his b*** hole, but should there be tension on the strap that connects it to the saddle?

Also, the harness came with a nose band, but I took it off, as my last driving bridle didnt have one. I'll have to put it back on! :)

Thanks for the thought about the reinloops on the neckstrap. I hadn't even considered that! There is a lot to driving and I am new to it, but love it so far!

(Pete feels really important to have a job now too, besides eating!)

[Cartfall]

Cartfall is that the same horse in both of your photos?

No, MN, the white white gray in http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2884306530057548781axhcgv ia Looker. She is the mama of the other one who is Zanzer in http://pets.webshots.com/photo/12816...57548781aMcbng This is an old photo of him, when he was just 3. I wish he had stayed that color.

Zanzer has grayed out so he looks more like his mama now. Here is a photo from 2008 but it is probably the most recent I have easily accessible. http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2604373400057548781OHUHxF

They would make an awesome pair!!! Just gotta have money. :D

[Christa P]

Here are some pictures of a reasonably well fitted harness on a pony similarly shaped to yours (Note - there is a noseband, it is just hard to see black leather on her black nose):

http://s620.photobucket.com/albums/tt284/cap7297/Oreo%20Driving/


This is a pony I am restarting driving to sell for my BO so she is only being driven with the basic working harness and cart - stuff that is easy to transport and store:).

For your pony, I would take a good look at the tree in your saddle - it might be too narrow. If it is, it can be widened or even removed to make it completely flexible like the saddle I am using in the pictures.

Your saddle is also too far forward, try moving it back a couple of inches and it might fit better.

Christa

[Sara417]

Thanks for the advice! Oreo is cute cute cute!

[nightmoves]

No, MN, the white white gray in http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2884306530057548781axhcgv ia Looker. She is the mama of the other one who is Zanzer in http://pets.webshots.com/photo/12816...57548781aMcbng This is an old photo of him, when he was just 3. I wish he had stayed that color.

Zanzer has grayed out so he looks more like his mama now. Here is a photo from 2008 but it is probably the most recent I have easily accessible. http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2604373400057548781OHUHxF

They would make an awesome pair!!! Just gotta have money. :D

BTW I love your dark green cart that would look lovely on my black bay stud pony. They sure would make a pretty pair.

[Drive NJ]

OK its good you have all the "missing" pieces.
You want to drop the height of the tugloop so it is approximately the same height as the breeching/breast collar. With this harness you may need to punch another hole BUT FIRST you can just do something temporary to hold it at a given height and slip the shafts in to check for how they fit with the cart. The shafts should be approximately level, but with and EZentry they may slant upwards towards the front. One you have the approx height you can punch holes to make it work

I havent seen harness with that lowest keeper at the bottom of the saddle sides. You may want to skip using that until you see how the whole harness fits and works. You do not want the tugs clamped to the horses side, needs to be a bit free-moving.

As for the crupper. Its ultimate purpose is to keep the position of the backstrap in place. It should NOT be tight but you dont want it so loose it is annoying to the pony. The backstrap purpose is to carry the loinstrap which carries the breeching. It also keeps the saddle from riding forward but this is not that critical on most horses

Your next step is to make adjustments and take more pix so you can look at it critically NOT while stareing at the pony. You can plan out any additional changes you might want to make without annoying the pony with endless adjustments

[Sara417]

Thanks Thanks Thanks! I knew this would be a good place to ask for advice!

I cant wait to get home and make adjustments!

Happy Thanksgiving!

[Thomas_1]

Pete is such a weird shape, I swear I could set up an elegant place setting on his back, it is so flat! He's fat and needs some weight off.

I'll move the breastplate and breeching a bit lower. I had never considered padding the breeching, but that makes sense. You don't pad britching. But it's way too high. The ring needs to be on his stifle. Drop it down 3 holes. and it needs to be a little further forward on his rump.

Any thoughts about fitting cruppers? It cant be right for it to touch his b*** hole, but should there be tension on the strap that connects it to the saddle? You shuold be able to get one hand turned sideways underneath the back strap and with ease.

Also, the harness came with a nose band, but I took it off, as my last driving bridle didnt have one. I'll have to put it back on! :) the bridle looks like it fits ok but you do need your nose band on.

(Pete feels really important to have a job now too, besides eating!) It will do him good to drive. I've quite a few shetland ponies that drive and Pete wouldn't look out of place with them at all.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/flodden_edge/Driving/DSCF0011.jpg

[pricestory]

thomas, your pony and Mr Pete make me feel better. The pony I just got is 10.1h and very over weight. We can work on that, but it is nice to know he isn't the only one on the planet. He's never going to look like one of those breed show shetlands.

[goodhors]

thomas, your pony and Mr Pete make me feel better. He's never going to look like one of those breed show shetlands.

Probably could not look like the show Shetland because the basic design is not the same. American Shetland ponies have much other breeding in their base makeup, not straight English Shetland ponies from the Islands.

Americans wanted a more leggy, slimmer pony that could get their knees up, back in the heyday of pony showing. They kept the short height, colors, but not much else when they reached the final product. When the bottom fell out of the pony market, most of the common ponies were ignored and standards were not kept up, so the plump, short legged ones reappeared.

As with the minis, you have to consider that all ponies are made to survive in harsh locations, on almost nothing. They get double value from every calorie they ingest! So any rich grazing blimps them up and can put them in health danger.

Once trained, regular workouts in driving helps them retain a more svelte figure. A good grooming instead of treats will benefit them better in the long run, and keep them friendly too.

[Sara417]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I am not really sure if Pete is a Shetland or just an overgrown mini. He was $100 auction pony.

He is my first pony and a really funny guy. He likes to kill the wheelbarrow and has little big man syndrome. He is at the bottom of the horse and people herd, so he lords over the cats, lol!

He HATES being groomed and at times acts like he is going to throw himself on the ground. Dork!

He is green broke to driving, I have probably 6 drives on him now. He really takes it seriously and you can see the little wheels in his pony brain turning. :)

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Thanks again the advice! Ill take better pics and post them after making adjustments.

[Thomas_1]

thomas, your pony and Mr Pete make me feel better. The pony I just got is 10.1h and very over weight. We can work on that, but it is nice to know he isn't the only one on the planet. He's never going to look like one of those breed show shetlands.:lol:
Mine is a breed show shetland. Has done a lot of winning!

He's a little chubby in the photo I linked to earlier but shetlands come that way and then run off as they work and winter comes on. The photo was him getting started for the season.

If Pete isn't a shetland then he looks more like one than any shetland pony I've seen posted on an American board previously ;)

But then I've strong opinions on US (so called) shetland ponies!

[nightmoves]

Are there also alot of differences in the U.S. Welsh? Just wondering as I have a Section C Welsh stallion (he's actually a B/C cross) and the Section C's that I've seen online in the U.K. look much heavier (and fatter) LOL

[goeslikestink]

Are there also alot of differences in the U.S. Welsh? Just wondering as I have a Section C Welsh stallion (he's actually a B/C cross) and the Section C's that I've seen online in the U.K. look much heavier (and fatter) LOL

section and a and section be are like little show ponies types
of varies colours but not coloured sec c are a tad smaller than the D but still have larger bones knees and hocks bit thicker set than a section b but not as thick set as section d
they were used for all sorts of things and are the smaller of the cob type
as they are under 14.2hh they are the pony cob type
the welsh d is over 14.2hh so is the horse cob type
go here www.wpcs.uk.com

all sections of the welsh dont have coloured horses or ponies
but they can be roan ie strawberry bay or blue , they can also be palomino
dun- and mostly are of solid colours ie bay chestnut, grey, black which palomino is a solid colour and so is dun
as palominos aren't a breed but a colour of type

[nightmoves]

I understand all that with the different sections and the types in each section. What I am wondering is how they differ in the U.K. from the ponies bred in the U.S. I'm sure there are some differences.

[Thomas_1]

As with all breeds you get huge differences in types.

IMO it's VERY simple, the main difference is:

Not true to type and to the conformation breed standards

and

True to type and to the conformation breed standard.

:winkgrin:

Here and there we've got ones that are true to type and ones that aren't. Fashion and trend (bad judging ;) )sometimes determines that those that aren't true to type start becoming more common.

So a Welsh Section C according to breed standard is supposed to be just the same as a Welsh Section D - apart from height which should not exceed 13.2.

It's full breed standard follows and I've highlighted the relevant parts which should be considered when looking at these refined 'types' too often seen nowadays.

You can decide for yourself if the ones commonly seen in the USA meet the standard and are "correct" or not.

For sure I do know there are some nice ones over there, I've seen them. But as here there's a lot creeping in that are not cob like as their breed standard requires and they don't look up to having the strength and stamina to enable them to be one of the best all purpose ride and drive animals in the world and for sure they don't look up to living out in the Welsh Mountains or doing a day's hunting or driving in such challenging terrain.

General Character

The general character is the embodiment of strength, hardiness and agility. the head shows great quality with Pony character: bold prominent eyes, a broad forehead and neat, well set ears. The body must be deep, on strong limbs with good "hard wearing" joints and an abundance of flat bone. Action must be straight, free and forceful, the knees should be bent and then the whole foreleg extended from the shoulders as far as possible in all paces, with the hocks well flexed, producing powerful leverage.
Strong, hardy and active, with pony character and as much substance as possible

Colour
Any colour, except piebald and skewbald

Head
Full of quality and pony character. A coarse head and Roman nose are most objectionable

Eyes
Bold, prominent and set widely apart

Ears
Neat and well set

Neck
Lengthy and well carried. Moderately lean in the case of mares, but inclined to be cresty in the case of mature stallions

Shoulders
Strong but well laid back

Forelegs
Set square and not tied in at the elbows. Long, strong forearms. Knees well developed with an abundance of bone below them. Pasterns of proportionate slope and length. Feet well-shaped. Hoofs dense. When in the rough, a moderate quantity of silky feather is not objected to but coarse, wiry hair is a definite objection.

Middlepiece
Back and loins, muscular, strong and well-coupled. Deep through the heart and well-ribbed up.

Hind Quarters
Lengthy and strong. Ragged or drooping quarters are objectionable. Tail well-set on.

Hind Legs
Second thighs, strong and muscular. Hocks, large, flat and clean, with points prominent, turning neither inward nor outwards. The hind legs must not be too bent and the hock not set behind a line falling from the point of the quarter to the fetlock joint. Pasterns of proportionate slope and length. Feet well-shaped. Hoofs dense.

Action
Free, true and forcible. The knee should be bent and the whole foreleg should be extended straight from the shoulder and as far forward as possible in the trot. Hocks flexed under the body with straight and powerful leverage.

[goeslikestink]

I understand all that with the different sections and the types in each section. What I am wondering is how they differ in the U.K. from the ponies bred in the U.S. I'm sure there are some differences.

there shouldnt be if its well bred and under the same breeding rules
if not then perhaps its not a true welsh but a part bred