Horse *likes* a longer toe?

[alterblue]

Sorry for the alter I can't seem to login under my normal name.

I hope this doesn't start a war, but it's really been intriguing me lately.

My farrier and I have noted that my horse goes better and better through his shoeing cycle as he get longer. He is certainly not trimmed too short, my farrier does amazing work, and if he leaves him a little longer (which he has been doing since we figured this out), my horse seems happier and more comfortable.

I'm just wondering WHY having a longer toe would have a beneficial effect? He tends to be a little upright, and probably has some navicular changes (I say probably bc they didn't find anything on his xrays but we didn't do the 2K suggested MRI to look into it more). He has had his coffin joints injected in the past.

Anyone have a horse like this or ideas as to why he prefers a longer toe? It's baffling me, but I'm happy if he's happy!

[Patty Stiller]

My farrier and I have noted that my horse goes better and better through his shoeing cycle as he get longer. He is certainly not trimmed too short, my farrier does amazing work, and if he leaves him a little longer (which he has been doing since we figured this out), my horse seems happier and more comfortable.Part of a being a good farrier is listening to the individual horse.
I'm just wondering WHY having a longer toe would have a beneficial effect? Pictures would be a great help but here are some ideas in general: There are several factors that a few horses have that I find commonly require a little longer toe or breakover point than what we would usually consider "ideal". He tends to be a little upright, And thats one of them. If the heels are quite tall, or the horse is "over at the knee", the may need a little longer toe to prevent them from tending to "knuckle over" or break over prematurely.

[JB]

There is a poster here who had a horse (I shall not name names, they can out themselves if they wish :D) who, due to some low articular ringbone, could NOT have a "correct" foot because it caused the joints to "activate" the ringbone pain. The horse needed a long(er) toe in order for the rb to be as inactive as it could be.

In your case, it would be extremely interesting to have your vet there when the farrier comes next time, get xrays of at least 1 hoof that shows this issue before the trim, and one after, to see how the alignment of the P1-3 bones are. If you haven't had xrays (in a while), you might find there are some bony changes which cause the horse to be more comfy with a longer toe. Maybe ;)

Or, as mentioned, with the higher heel, you may be seeing that the toe post-trim is too short for the heel, causing a broken-forward pastern axis, and by the end of the trim cycle, the bones are actually correctly aligned.

[Chall]

I know nothing about shoeing, but several farriers over the years said my Arabian needed a longer front toe because that was what his confirmation called for. He has long pasterns and they are pretty sloped. The farriers also said he had "normal" hind feet, which to my eye are less angled than his fronts. So, I have seen farriers give my one horse longer front toes than my other horse (TB) .

[JB]

One has to remember it's not about how long or short or sloped or angled the foot it. What matters is that the pastern bones - P1-3 - line up in the manner that makes the horse most comfy.

For the horse with nothing wrong, this is a straight line. For ones like above, it might not be straight but it's a line that keeps things out of the way (ie calcifications).

That's why horses with long, sloped pasterns have more angle to their foot - that's what lines the bones up. Horses with short upright pasterns have less angle - that's what lines them up.

But a horse with a long pastern that isn't very sloped will have a more upright hoof angle compared to the long/sloped pastern horse.

[AnotherRound]

For what its worth, my mare used to always be entirely comfortable with whatever kept her soles up off the ground. That mare HATED stones, gravel, and was ouchy on anything that touched her. Eventually, I just gave in and kept her padded in front. Happy horse. I could imagine an ouchy horse liking a long toe and heel which kept them up off the ground. I realize that that isn't optimal for a hoof, either, but hey, its what hit me first reading this.

[Androcles]

Sorry for the alter I can't seem to login under my normal name.

I hope this doesn't start a war, but it's really been intriguing me lately.

My farrier and I have noted that my horse goes better and better through his shoeing cycle as he get longer. He is certainly not trimmed too short, my farrier does amazing work, and if he leaves him a little longer (which he has been doing since we figured this out), my horse seems happier and more comfortable.

I'm just wondering WHY having a longer toe would have a beneficial effect? He tends to be a little upright, and probably has some navicular changes (I say probably bc they didn't find anything on his xrays but we didn't do the 2K suggested MRI to look into it more). He has had his coffin joints injected in the past.

Anyone have a horse like this or ideas as to why he prefers a longer toe? It's baffling me, but I'm happy if he's happy!

How do you know he prefers a longer toe, and not some other part of the foot that has also grown into the place he prefers? Or is the toe the only thing on his feet that grows?

Having said that and reading the other comments it probably does have to do with his upright-ish pastern which probably results from a higher heel. A longer toe will change the angle of the pastern but this puts strain on the joints as they move through the range of motion, the breakover of which is being artificially extended. It might be physiologically healthier to get the angle more sloping through better trimming at the outset of the cycle.

[Amwrider]

Is it just the toe that is longer or is the whole hoof longer? Longer foot with angles maintained well?

I have a horse with upright, stubby pasterns and we keep him with a longer foot and longer heel. He is navicular and that is what keeps him comfortable.

If it is just the toe that is long with a low heel, they you need to watch for navicular changes, suspensory damage, and separation of the white line at the toe. A long toe with a low heel can cause all kinds of problems.