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View Full Version : This time the "hunters" get caught and charged



onlyanarabian
Nov. 22, 2009, 11:52 AM
So For the past few years my parents have dealt with finding shot deer in the pasture. The neighbors caught someone shooting from the road last year into the pasture. A doe was later found.

This past week (before opening day) my mom gets a call from her sister that lives next door that she had just witnessed a person shoot into the pasture from their truck, run into the pasture then take off. My mom is given the make of the truck and the direction they went (my parents live on a very lightly traveled dirt road).

My mom jumps into her truck gets behind the named truck (she said they were still road hunting at this time) She writes down the plate. This is where I told her she was a little crazy they pull over to let her pass she gets next to them windows down and yells things that I can't repeat on a forum. They proceed to tell her that they would never do such a thing.

Once back home she and her sister call DEC give all information. They came and got a statement and will be charging the guys. Come to find out the driver Is a cop in the city and was at his "camp" for the weekend ( their camp is a $100,000+ weekend home).

My mom walked the pasture to see if they shot anything but nothing was found. Each year before hunting season my parents walk the property and put up new posted signs. Their fence is right at the road they would have to climb it to even get a deer out.

My parents have had some hard times over the years with hunters and horses. Years ago at a self care boarding barn where my mom pastured her horses, a hunter (with permission from the BO) left the gate open and her horse was hit by a car after getting out Horse was euth. and my mom was sued.

I have nothing against hunting actually DH and my dad are out hunting together right now. But there is a difference between the safe hunters and the ones that are just out looking for an easy kill.

TKR
Nov. 22, 2009, 12:16 PM
Hunting? I don't think "hunting" applies any more to the aberration it's become. Men in the most outrageous camo garb sitting in trees (deer stands) with the latest in technology overlooking baited (formerly/recently) fields and just hang out and await a target. Or the shooting of a wayward deer from a vehicle driving along a road. They use dogs in some areas to flush and run them to the shooters. There is no hunting to it. They simply find the easier course of action to kill something by using the least effort. The weekend warriors have no respect for boudaries, property or other living creatures. Apparently it's some sort of testosterone rush of power to kill something. It's disgusting. We have had problems on our farm off and on, not so much now though. We back up to a wooded area with alot of wildlife (and great trails!) and have had hunters encroach.
Pe

fooler
Nov. 22, 2009, 01:57 PM
We allowed a father & son to 'hunt deer' on our property several weeks ago. They were very respectful of where to setup so they would NOT be firing in the direction of any home or horse pasture.
Funny thing is even though we have loads of deer around us, they chose to either not come out or even worse - stay only in the 'no-fire' areas.
A couple of days after our guests left, the deer were back to their normal patterns. Until marrying a hunter I did not realize just how difficult it is to find deer, much less have them stand in a position so you have a chance for a clean,kill shot. The deer are very aware of their surroundings and have a very acute sense of smell. Meaning many of the good hunters spend countless hours sitting looking for deer who never appear or are out of range or position for shooting.

Glad your Mom is ok and those guys are being charged. Hopefully she will leave it getting the tag number if there is a next time.

cloudyandcallie
Nov. 22, 2009, 02:08 PM
Hunting? I don't think "hunting" applies any more to the aberration it's become. Men in the most outrageous camo garb sitting in trees (deer stands) with the latest in technology overlooking baited (formerly/recently) fields and just hang out and await a target. Or the shooting of a wayward deer from a vehicle driving along a road. They use dogs in some areas to flush and run them to the shooters. There is no hunting to it. They simply find the easier course of action to kill something by using the least effort. The weekend warriors have no respect for boudaries, property or other living creatures. Apparently it's some sort of testosterone rush of power to kill something. It's disgusting. We have had problems on our farm off and on, not so much now though. We back up to a wooded area with alot of wildlife (and great trails!) and have had hunters encroach.
Pe

Good post. There's a vast difference between the "sporting" hunters who walk the woods and the drunks who let the dogs run deer out to them (or have tree stands over baited fields...down here the drunks fall out of their tree stands.) Today, with the split deer hunting season, a big deer hound got totaled on the hwy to the barn. More deer and deer dogs get totaled on the highways here than get shot in the woods.

deltawave
Nov. 22, 2009, 02:11 PM
While I totally don't get the bait-em and shoot-em thing that some forms of "hunting" have taken, there certainly are hunters out there who are thoughtful, conservation-minded, and have a great deal of respect for the animals they're hunting and the land.

We're surrounded by hunters, both types. I'd say the yahoo-type that just likes to shoot things slightly outnumbers the true sportsmen, but you certainly can't stereotype all of them with the same broad definition.

EqTrainer
Nov. 22, 2009, 04:59 PM
Ah yes. The beginning of Hell Season.

Here, men sit in lawn chairs on the side of the road after releasing their dogs to run through yours and your neighbors properties, which total hundreds of acres.

I have seen as many as seven "men" standing in a field as dogs are running deer towards them. So sporting. Funny thing is they usually miss, or shoot a dog. If they shoot a deer and it keeps on running they just sit back down. Damn if they are going to try to find it, that would be work. You can take one look at those men and know, no athletic event is going to take place.

After dark they drive around in trucks for an hour or so looking for their dogs. I have a clue for them - GET OUT OF THE TRUCK DUMBASS, YOU CANNOT SEE (OR HEAR) THE DOG FROM INSIDE THE TRUCK. We certainly can hear them.. all night long, until they freeze or starve to death.

They lose a few every time, no worries, they are never neutered or spayed so they can make more. Those dogs usually freeze to death or starve to death here, because they are totally unsocialized animals that do not trust people and will not come to you even when they are starving and freezing to death. Last week I felt so bad, my dogs beat the hell out of some lost hound dog that was on our property, I could not get to them quick enough to stop them. I suppose they get killed by people's dogs and we see lots of them that are hit by cars.

Sporting hunters? You don't see them, because they are quietly going about hunting in a humane and truly sporting way. They are out there and I applaud them.. it's not the hunting itself I have an issue with.. it's the blatant disregard for other people's property, other people's rights to not have to deal w/their animals (so much fun to have a pack of lost deer hounds circling in your woods at night, they sound like they have been eviscerated the way they scream) and the animal abuse that results from their "hunting".

To the OP, please tell your mom to be careful. My local game warden has told me to not, for any reason, confront any person w/a gun. I have his phone number and that is what I am supposed to use, no matter how outraged I am. He says it's simply not safe.

Talking to one of my neighbors last week and he commented that if you report them and they find out it was you, that you can expect your animals to be shot and dead carcasses to be dumped on your property. Nice.

Yesterday I was driving and there was a dead deer HEAD on the side of the road... guess they didnt want that part...

My2cents
Nov. 22, 2009, 05:21 PM
I am 'lucky' enough to live in a part of the state where hunting is prohibited on public land. Still, I hear gunshots that sound close enough to make me worry. I once asked a cop what to do if I ever encountered a hunter on public land (which, by the way, my property abuts) and he said basically the same thing, don't confront someone with gun in his hand. Call and report the incident and just maybe, they'll be able to track them down.

SaddleFitterVA
Nov. 22, 2009, 05:40 PM
Unsafe shooting is bad, whoever does it.

But, to be honest, the deer are so overpopulated around here, I wish they would authorize a season of Spotlighting in areas with clear area behind. Rather like the "crop damage control" permits that farmers got near my old house.

I know this is unpopular, but the deer are rats with hooves in my region. The body shops love them though.

I recently bagged one...with the dually + horse trailer. Nice young buck. I'd rather not count 50+ deer on a 6 mile stretch of road coming home at night. I want my pasture for my horses.

I want less deer around. A LOT less deer.

From Cornell:
http://wildlifecontrol.info/deer/Pages/DeerPopulationFacts.aspx


In the early 1900's there were an estimated 500,000 white-tailed deer in the United States. Unregulated commercial hunting and subsistence hunting threatened to eliminate the white-tailed deer from much of its range. At that time, many state wildlife agencies were formed with the goal of conserving the nation's depleted wildlife resources. Hunting regulations were put into place, and the harvest of antlerless (female) deer was prohibited. The rebound of white-tailed deer populations that followed is considered a wildlife management success story. Today there are over 20 million deer in the United States and numbers are rising.
I wish there were safer ways to eliminate these pests.

I don't personally hunt, own a gun, or particularly care for venison, but I wish I had a location to offer hunters. I'd encourage baiting personally as it would be safer in a more suburban area. At this point, I'd like to see the population controlled and could care less about the sporting aspect of it.

A bit like that study on foxhunting in Britain a few years ago. A lot of foxes needed to die to maintain a steady and healthy population. How they would be killed was the question.

twofatponies
Nov. 22, 2009, 06:10 PM
There are loonies everywhere, I guess. Around here the guys who live here and have permission to hunt on private land (often on their neighbors' land) are downright courteous, responsible and intelligent about their hunting. The opening weekend yahoos who show up from everywhere and run wild? Not so much. Even the regular local hunters will rant endlessly about the idiot hunters if you get them started. :D

EqTrainer
Nov. 22, 2009, 06:42 PM
Aren't mice the initial vector for ticks carrying lyme?

cloudyandcallie
Nov. 22, 2009, 06:45 PM
mice and rats carry most of the diseases that other animals are "blamed" for.
And ticks. I think ticks should be hunted down and killed, every one of them. I use skinsosoft to keep ticks off of horses.

pAin't_Misbehavin'
Nov. 22, 2009, 06:59 PM
Good for your mama!:cool: She did exactly the right thing.

We don't have problems here anymore with irresponsible hunters, because we landowners watch them and make sure they're doing the right thing. If they're not, we report them, or chase them down and read them the riot act, or both.

EqT - around here, one looks for hounds from inside the truck, because (I guess) that's where the gizmo is that transmits the signal from the radio collars.:) Hounds are a little flighty when they get separated from the pack - but so is any lost dog. Even housepets. They get disoriented and panicky. Anyway, for stray hounds I just put out kibble and a warm bed and by morning they've usually figured out which direction home is.

EqTrainer
Nov. 22, 2009, 07:47 PM
Good for your mama!:cool: She did exactly the right thing.

We don't have problems here anymore with irresponsible hunters, because we landowners watch them and make sure they're doing the right thing. If they're not, we report them, or chase them down and read them the riot act, or both.

EqT - around here, one looks for hounds from inside the truck, because (I guess) that's where the gizmo is that transmits the signal from the radio collars.:) Hounds are a little flighty when they get separated from the pack - but so is any lost dog. Even housepets. They get disoriented and panicky. Anyway, for stray hounds I just put out kibble and a warm bed and by morning they've usually figured out which direction home is.

Rarely does a hound show up here w/the collar device on :( I think that is too sophisticated for this crowd. No, driving up and down the road, enjoying a beverage, hoping a dog will wander out... yep, that's how they "find" them.

I have had responsible guys come to my house sheepishly to tell me their radio controlled device says their hounds are behind my house.. uh huh, I could have told you that because I have two ears that work :lol: nonetheless I am kind to them for caring about their dogs and respecting my property. The others.. need to get out of their truck and try using their feet!

danceronice
Nov. 22, 2009, 08:02 PM
That's not hunting, that's poaching. It's also illegal to shoot from the road even if you have permission to hunt that particular land.

I don't care about a few dead deer (rats with antlers, and you can't blame bovine TB or chronic wasting disease on the mice), but you only shoot where you're supposed to shoot. The laws are there to keep people from getting hurt when someone shoots where they're not supposed to.

vineyridge
Nov. 22, 2009, 08:05 PM
I've got absolutely nothing against using hounds to hunt deer, any more than I have about using dogs to hunt rabbit, coon, or fox. That's what the dogs have been created by humans to do. The hounds don't hurt the land they run over, and it's absolutely certain that they will never catch a deer.

Why are you guys so anti hunting with hounds? I can remember when I was a kid, we used to have people who rode to hounds while deer hunting.

danceronice
Nov. 22, 2009, 08:07 PM
I don't have a problem with the dogs, I have a problem with people shooting from the road (illegal) at deer on land where they don't have permission to hunt (also illegal.) The guys near my parents who run coon dogs ASK before they run them on someone else's land.

AKB
Nov. 22, 2009, 08:11 PM
Bow hunters are the worst. We used to have a neighbor who gave hunting permission to a very responsible bow hunter who knew how to shoot what he was aiming at. For years, he hunted on her property, and we had no problems. Now, we have been overrun by bow hunters who hunt without permission in our back yards. We live in a neighborhood of 5 acre lots. We found an arrow this weekend where our horses like to stand, not far from our back door. The neighbor across the street had someone shoot a deer in her horse pasture, next to her foals. She was also in the yard. Three other neighbors have found dead deer next to their houses. Another neighbor keeps seeing a deer with an arrow stuck in his nose.

Unfortunately, Fairfax County allows bow hunting. We have posted our neighborhood with lots of yellow no hunting signs, but there isn't much we can do to stop the hunters. Deer often are wounded instead of killed, and die a slow death from infection. Neighbors are tired of cleaning up dead deer from our suburban yards. We are tired of worrying about being shot by arrows. Bow hunting is apparently legal until the middle of spring.

EqTrainer
Nov. 22, 2009, 08:28 PM
I've got absolutely nothing against using hounds to hunt deer, any more than I have about using dogs to hunt rabbit, coon, or fox. That's what the dogs have been created by humans to do. The hounds don't hurt the land they run over, and it's absolutely certain that they will never catch a deer.

Why are you guys so anti hunting with hounds? I can remember when I was a kid, we used to have people who rode to hounds while deer hunting.

Personally? I don't want to live in what sounds like a fox hunt. Heck, my neighbor who fox hunts cannot stand it either. The noise, the disruption to your daily life and work - it's not insignificant. I am sure each hunter thinks "oh, it's just one day I am out here!" but there are lots and lots of them - I expect an absolute barrage of dog noise from day one - and actually it starts early, as some of them like to "practice" running their dogs".

I have a creek bed that runs the length of my property. The other side is another horse farm. Of course deer run down the creekbed. Of course I have a perimeter fence. Of course they cut the fence to let them in. Of course dogs don't backtrack to find how to get out. They just run in circles, baying.

The other factor, as I mentioned, is the dogs still being here after they leave. This is a serious problem around here. We will end up catching a few of them this winter and calling animal control but the rest will run around baying for days.. weeks.. joining up into packs.. until they starve or freeze. Year before last was bitterly cold here, there was little baying after a few nights of 20 degrees plus a nasty wind chill. It's sad and kind of - well, sick, IMO. Drive to someone elses land, turn your dogs loose, leave the ones you cannot find and call it a day. They are clearly considered disposable dogs. My neighbor routinely shoots them when he can get a clear shot but it's hard when you are surrounded by horses, kids and other farms.

Every once in while one will show up and my dogs don't go after it.. one was FAT as a tick and OLD... it would have been funny if it had not been sad... exhausted dog, just wanted to lay on the porch and sleep :lol: another one a few weeks ago was young and so thin, not just hound thin but skin and bones.. cowering and peeing all over itself when you approached it..

the whole thing just makes me ill. I have complete respect for people who hunt skillfully and sportingly. I hunted as a kid; it's not easy to make a clean kill and tracking something you effed up on is a necessary, unpleasant evil. Hunting with dogs makes it too easy IMO, for people to just be incredibly slack in the name of hunting. They show up, have fun for a day and we get to clean up their mess.

If they want to do this they should buy their own land and do it where they cannot affect anyone else.

lorilu
Nov. 22, 2009, 08:32 PM
I've got absolutely nothing against using hounds to hunt deer, any more than I have about using dogs to hunt rabbit, coon, or fox. That's what the dogs have been created by humans to do. The hounds don't hurt the land they run over, and it's absolutely certain that they will never catch a deer.

Why are you guys so anti hunting with hounds? I can remember when I was a kid, we used to have people who rode to hounds while deer hunting.

WHY? Here's why:
Because here in N Central Fla, every year, there are emaciated "lost" dogs wandering the road - esp HWY 19 north of Dunellon towards Cedar Key - after "dog season". Some have collars. Some are dead on the side of the road.

I have seen them.

L

vineyridge
Nov. 22, 2009, 08:41 PM
But that's irresponsible hunters, not hunting with hounds. Irresponsible hunters are everywhere, not just dog hunters.

I'm sure that for every hunter who drives out drunk leaving hounds behind, there are some who stay for long hours and days searching for their lost hounds. That's one reason radio collars are such a Godsend.

EqTrainer
Nov. 22, 2009, 08:55 PM
But that's irresponsible hunters, not hunting with hounds. Irresponsible hunters are everywhere, not just dog hunters.

I'm sure that for every hunter who drives out drunk leaving hounds behind, there are some who stay for long hours and days searching for their lost hounds. That's one reason radio collars are such a Godsend.


I am sure that there are, too. But we are still left with the ones who get left and there are *a lot* of them. I do feel for the ones who are responsible and like I said, I try to not lump them in w/the rest. However.. the "good" ones dogs are still running around my farm, too. If this was a once a month occurence... it would not be so bad. But it is non-stop, good guys/bad guys regardless, there are still hounds running around baying non-stop. At some point you just really don't care, you just want them to SHUT UP!!!

Unfortunately this form of irresponsible hunting leaves two victims - the dogs, and us.. possibly three, as the deer certainly don't appreciate being harassed until the dogs freeze or starve....

I'm sorry, this is my pet peeve, I really wish they would just buy their own land and keep their dogs off of mine. Period. I don't show up on their suburban homes lawn Saturday morning and make a racket for the next couple of days... why on earth is it ok for them to do it to me, I have no idea... if I did, I'd get put in jail for causing a nuisance.

JSwan
Nov. 22, 2009, 10:01 PM
But there is a difference between the safe hunters and the ones that are just out looking for an easy kill.

I'm glad they were caught and charged.

I'm a big hunting supporter but nothing burns me up more than poachers or unethical or unsafe hunters. Throw 'em all in jail and let 'em rot. :mad:

Frank B
Nov. 23, 2009, 10:06 AM
By no stretch of the imagination could those scumbags you described be called "hunters". They're poachers, even if they do have a deer tag and license.

Once the true sportsmen find out who they are, their life and reputations will be forever changed.

wildlifer
Nov. 23, 2009, 10:54 AM
Ugh, that is awful. Sadly, there are fewer and fewer who actually hunt, most of the time, it's just about killing deer in any way possible, since we have eradicated their predators and created patchy edge habitat they love by building endless roads and subdivisions thus resulting in mass overpopulation.

Around here a very popular form of "hunting" involves going to your local pound, bringing home everything remotely hound-shaped, and loading them in your truck/boat. Then you mount a bass-fishing seat in the bed of your truck, drive to the side of some road and release your (malnourished, wormy, desparate) dogs. You sit in said chair drinking your beer on the side of the road until some of the dogs happen to run a deer towards you. You shoot vaguely at it and maybe gut-shoot it. If it's a big buck you might try to find it and chop its head off so you can hang its staring eyes on your wall. If it's small or a doe, you shrug and leave. If the season is over, dogs are not collected, they are just left in the woods to starve or get hit and a few lucky ones wander into sympathetic eyelines.

Alternatively, you can make a huge pile of corn in front of your stand until the deer are reliably coming to eat a guaranteed food source. When they are calmly eating their fill, you can shoot them with practically no effort at all!

Yup, they're awesome.

chai
Nov. 23, 2009, 12:37 PM
only, I think your Mom is a brave woman, but I hope your parents will be extra careful for the immediate future, watchful for retribution. People who do things like shoot from a truck, use lights to blind deer and poach at night and otherwise 'cheat' are the types who have no conscience or empathy.

I am not anti-hunting because I have seen what happens when deer overpopulate. Hunting is not allowed where I live now and by spring, the deer have tried to stay alive by eating anything and many starve to death because there are so many.

When I lived in ME, I knew hunters who respected the woods, took only what they were going to eat and would never cheat or leave an injured animal in the woods. The trouble is, the bad ones like the creep who shot into your parents' pasture cause a lot of damage. My last year in ME, I was almost killed when three drunken hunters flushed a doe into the road right onto the hood of my car. She literally leaped out of the forest on to the hood, flipped, landed on the other side of the road and ran off into the woods. If I was a half second faster, she would have landed in the windshield.
Fortunately, one of my neighbors and his sons were coming the other way and saw the whole thing. They told me not to go into the woods without blaze orange on, but they had been hunting and they kindly spent the next hour in the woods looking for the doe while I sat by the road.
The three fools who had been flushing that deer toward the river grew up in town and knew exactly where they were. They thought it was hilarious that a deer lover like me had 'bagged' my first deer. I was disgusted by them but I know better than to tangle with half brained, half drunk fools with guns.

They also caused over $500 damage to my car and they could have killed me with that stunt. My friends who searched for the deer didn't find her, so I had to hope that she was ok, poor creature.
Things like this happen every year and I remember shuddering when I would see all the MA license plates with men dressed in brand spankin' new hunting gear rolling up our hill. It's scary out there and I hope your folks will be ok. Your Mom really is a special woman to protect her property like that.

Aggie4Bar
Nov. 23, 2009, 01:20 PM
Deer are so overpopulated now, I couldn't care less about baited hunts. Some call it unfair, but I wonder if those same people thinking about fairness to feedlot cattle when they buy beef at the grocery. Same principle in my book. And I'd like nothing better than to thin the population around us and simultaneously fill my freezer, which would be simple to do since the neighbours feed them every day. Rattle a bucket, and here they come. The most we ever counted in their pasture was 23. "Rats with antlers" is a brilliant analogy. Unfortunately, hunting is forbidden in the immediate area.

But I also have a problem with some of the attitudes of many so-called "hunters". It seems ever more common that "hunters" are merely out for the thrill of shooting something. I grew up with people who hunted and treated it like something of a duty. They went out, got a deer or two, came home, processed the meat, and that was that. We were all the same way with fishing. It was neat to brag over a prize catch, but the point was dinner. Sure, there was fun involved, but there's also always been something respectful in the way it was conducted, the way the animal was ultimately handled, and the overall attitude toward hunting. This was life. It just irks the hell out of me when there are yahoos driving the roads, trespassing, and just genearlly not giving a s*** about anything other than they want to shoot something. And for that matter, many don't seem to care if they kill it. The whole point is to make the shot count. But some of these folks don't even verify what they're shooting at - much less the aim - when they pull the trigger. There was a story a few years ago about a guy with "buck fever" who shot a women in her garden. She was wearing a red flannel shirt with blue jeans, and he mistook her for a deer. WTF? :mad:

wendy
Nov. 23, 2009, 01:28 PM
I am not anti-hunting because I have seen what happens when deer overpopulate. Hunting is not allowed where I live now and by spring, the deer have tried to stay alive by eating anything and many starve to death because there are so many.

hunting does NOTHING for over-population. In order to get the population down you need to go out and remove a very large proportion of the does in one year. Shooting a few, or even a lot, of the bucks every year doesn't do anything to control numbers.
I suppose it's remotely possible a few hunters are out for meat and are responsible, but my experiences suggest it's mostly a "get together, drink a lot, and shoot at anything that moves" fest. Our deer are so tame and the killing equipment these people use is so sophisticated it's impossible to describe the event as "sporting". I also find it really strange that around here the only way to keep hunters off your privately own land is to post signs everywhere. Anyone else attempting to trespass is illegal by law, but guys dressed in camo lugging guns are legal unless you take expensive pro-active steps.

Thomas_1
Nov. 23, 2009, 01:32 PM
Fortunately in the UK it's illegal to have a gun without a licence and if you break any legislation then you lose the licence and can't go shooting.

It's an offence to shoot on anyone's land without permission.

It's an offence to shoot from or across a public highway.

I'm in the heart of hunting country and there's a gazillion game birds put down every year but I've never ever ever had a problem with the irresponsible shooting across or on my land.

Worst we've ever had in 40 years is the phone wire was shot out about half a mile down the lane from the farm ..... and that was by an over zealous American on a syndicate shoot ! !

cloudyandcallie
Nov. 23, 2009, 02:19 PM
But after our english ancestors arrived here from debtors' prisons, they decided they had the "right" to bear arms, so they proceeded to extend that right to automatic weapons, drinking while hunting, and shooting at anything that moves and driving home while drunk.

My father was a hunter all of his life. He was very critical of the people who drink, bait, hunt deer with dogs, and the generally careless people who fall over their own guns. Dogs are for bird hunting. If all the hunters walked as much in a day as my father did every day of hunting season (deer and dove and quail, sat in boat in freezing weather for duck, had his own business so hunting daily was his thing), they would not be drunk nor would they have those beer bellies.:lol:

RacetrackReject
Nov. 23, 2009, 02:35 PM
Running deer with hounds is illegal in Texas. Is it not illegal in other states? Just curious.

cloudyandcallie
Nov. 23, 2009, 02:54 PM
Legal in some Georgia counties here. Illegal in some. The dog hunters got the law changed on the amt. of acreage you have to have available to run deer with dogs. But the regulations are seldom enforced as the DNR rangers are more interested in catching dopers than in enforcing game laws now.

Several years ago a hunter told me how good it was that 2 deer and 3 dogs made it across Interstate 95 w/o getting killed, "just 2 dogs" got killed.:mad: And they are always losing their dogs to gators down here, the gators wait by the water where deer trails cross and get the dogs as they run thru.

Like a poster said, they breed their dogs so they always have replacements in the pens. And if a dog breaks a leg, I learned at the vet's one day, they bring them in to be put down, not treated. My father's setters slept in the bed, ate at the table, and rode inside the car.

EqTrainer
Nov. 23, 2009, 03:01 PM
CC, I am surprised they did not just shoot it. We've had a few shot hounds in ditches at the end of the hunting day - I always assumed they got hurt and so they shot them.. or accidentally shot them, which probably happens quite a bit considering how they hunt. I am always grateful that at least, for whatever reason, the dog was put out of its misery rather than waiting around to starve or freeze.

They are in the first steps of banning hunting w/dogs in my county. Even my friends who fox hunt begrudgingly have to agree that it is so out of control that nothing but a complete ban will stop it. Sad for those who are truly sporting.

ZiggyStardust
Nov. 23, 2009, 03:46 PM
But, to be honest, the deer are so overpopulated around here, I wish they would authorize a season of Spotlighting in areas with clear area behind. Rather like the "crop damage control" permits that farmers got near my old house.

I know this is unpopular, but the deer are rats with hooves in my region. The body shops love them though.

I recently bagged one...with the dually + horse trailer. Nice young buck. I'd rather not count 50+ deer on a 6 mile stretch of road coming home at night. I want my pasture for my horses.

I want less deer around. A LOT less deer.


I wish there were safer ways to eliminate these pests.

I don't personally hunt, own a gun, or particularly care for venison, but I wish I had a location to offer hunters. I'd encourage baiting personally as it would be safer in a more suburban area. At this point, I'd like to see the population controlled and could care less about the sporting aspect of it.

A bit like that study on foxhunting in Britain a few years ago. A lot of foxes needed to die to maintain a steady and healthy population. How they would be killed was the question.

This is what happens when humans eliminate natural predators. As the "top" predator, humans are responsible for managing the wildlife and ecosystem problems we create. Unfortunately, in many instances, we are also the stupidest and greediest predator.

RacetrackReject
Nov. 23, 2009, 03:56 PM
I guess that I am fairly lucky to have a friend who is a Game Warden. I had issues with my neighbor poaching fish out of my pond, that I paid to have stocked, and with them shooting towards deer on my land (it is illegal if you shoot and your bullet leaves your property limit). I called the GW and they had a discussion with the neighbors, searched their house and found illegally taken game. The neighbors offered to come by and apologize for stealing all of my fish, but the GW quite pointedly told them that it would be best if they stayed away from me or he would be back and he would not be as nice as he was that time.

Since then I suspected my neighbors shot a deer before season opened, not on my land. They were pulling something out of their truck with a riding mower and dragging it to the hay field behind their house, but in front of my pasture with the pond. They had whatever it was covered in a tarp and waited until after dark to pull it out. Oddly enough, I ran into the GW at lunch the next day and he asked me if anything odd had been going on. I told him my suspicion and he said that it was time for him to do a recheck on their house anyway, so he would stop by later and see if he found anything.

I'm just glad that my neighbors have left me and my land alone.

Since we are on the subject of hounds. I often see 3 Vizla (spelling) crossing the highway on my way to work. It is obvious they are working and they have radio collars on, but I thought they were more bird dogs. What would Vizla's be hunting in a pack? The first time I saw them, I thought they may have been lost and was going to try and pick them up until I noticed their radio collars.

MistyBlue
Nov. 23, 2009, 04:06 PM
Today there are over 20 million deer in the United States and numbers are rising.

Heck, I probably have that many walk through my yard every night. :eek: :winkgrin: :eek:

Around here we don't get scads of the truck-hunting poachers thank goodness. Probably due to lack of open fields. Most hunters here hunt from stands...since visibility here in the woods is tops 60 feet or so.
We can tell the main hunting season is open. I live surrounded by state forest and have seen a ton of trucks out today parked along the road carrying in and setting up their stands in their chosen spots. Dogs are primarily used for birds around here. And crossing property without permission isn't very common.
But yes, there are many areas where some "hunters" are just butt heads with firearms. Drunken butt heads. :no:

JSwan
Nov. 23, 2009, 08:28 PM
Running deer with hounds is illegal in Texas. Is it not illegal in other states? Just curious.

That form of hunting was banned in the mid 90's in Texas. For lots of reasons. (double check me on that date). Other states established a minimum acreage requirement, and/or designated a specific season for deer dogs - to eliminate conflicts among sportsmen (and the general public)

Dog or man drives are pretty much a southern thing - it evolved due to the type of habitat common in some parts of the South (dense, brushy bottomland). The deer dogs drive deer from extremely dense, brushy areas into a common area where they are shot by waiting hunters.

In my state, they account for 40% of the deer harvest. They can kill many more deer, more efficiently, than a single bow or rifle hunter. They also have a lower wounding rate - as the deer are hit from a shorter distance and die quickly. However, more acreage is required, and other hunters, particularly bow hunters, want the woods quiet and empty. So there is competition and dislike.

But like every human activity, there are good and bad apples. Some folks don't take care of their dogs, some poach or trespass, or others aren't safe hunters. Other folks are really good hunters, have great clubs, and their Walkers are well cared for and excellent hunting dogs.

There is also some class warfare involved as well. Hunting deer with dogs was primarily a method of "meat hunting" (hunting for food, not for trophies) of the poor or working poor in the South.

Some people still look down on it as something only done by minorities (it was and is very popular among rural African-Americans,) or the poor, and that the only proper way of hunting with a dog is for birds. Grouse, pheasant, quail, etc. Bird hunting is a more upper class activity in comparison.

It's unfortunate that people still think that way but there it is.

Hope that helps. Hunting deer with dogs has a rich culture and history behind it - but I admit it is very hard to see it sometimes. The bad apples make everyone look bad. :mad:

AiryFairy
Nov. 23, 2009, 08:45 PM
There was a story a few years ago about a guy with "buck fever" who shot a women in her garden. She was wearing a red flannel shirt with blue jeans, and he mistook her for a deer. WTF? :mad:

She was wearing white mittens hanging out her laundry and he said it looked like a deer's tail. He got off, by the way....:confused:

HuntJumpSC
Nov. 24, 2009, 09:06 AM
I hunt deer, both alone and with my husband. We still hunt, and yes we bait, and we also hunt with dogs at a club. Hedgerow hunting with dogs is what gives the rest of us a bad name. It only takes a few yahoos and poachers to cause all hunters to be stereotyped into the same category.

For those who think still hunting over bait is not sporting and we are just kicked back waiting for the deer to show up, think again. There is a lot that goes into outsmarting one. You have to be perfectly still and quiet, as well as scent free. And timing is key. You have to consider moon phases, weather, and when they should be walking. We scout for scrapes and rubs, we set up wildlife cameras to get an idea of what's there, and we manage the herd. That means we take a few does for meat when necessary, and we selectively harvest bucks. As a result of that, we have some beautiful trophy bucks walking this year, and they didn't get that big for no reason. Bagging one is tough.

As for hunting with hounds, we use tracking collars on them. When they go beyond the clubs boundaries, we are trying our best to get them up. No one wants one of their best hounds bashed up on I-95. People think that the hounds catch the deer after running it to death, not the case at all. A hound will rarely catch one, those deer stay well ahead of the dogs. I've watched a buck slip through a large cut-down, taking his time, while the pack was still a good 1/2 mile away.

It irks me when someone stereotypes all hunters as ignorant hillbillies, riding down the roads shooting deer from their trucks. All it takes is one bad experience with a hunter and people immediately label us all as such. I love to hunt, I selectively harvest, and I eat what I kill. So some people don't like it, fine, your perogative. But please, educate yourself a bit about the sport before spouting off and labeling everyone as a bunch of yeehaw poachers.

Everythingbutwings
Nov. 24, 2009, 09:52 AM
Bow hunters are the worst. We used to have a neighbor who gave hunting permission to a very responsible bow hunter who knew how to shoot what he was aiming at. For years, he hunted on her property, and we had no problems. Now, we have been overrun by bow hunters who hunt without permission in our back yards. We live in a neighborhood of 5 acre lots.

Unfortunately, Fairfax County allows bow hunting. We have posted our neighborhood with lots of yellow no hunting signs, but there isn't much we can do to stop the hunters. Deer often are wounded instead of killed, and die a slow death from infection. Neighbors are tired of cleaning up dead deer from our suburban yards. We are tired of worrying about being shot by arrows. Bow hunting is apparently legal until the middle of spring.

You may be interested:


Fairfax County


In addition to the urban archery season, archery deer hunting is also allowed during the early archery season and the general firearms deer season (i.e., from the first Saturday in October through the first Saturday in January).
Hunters must gain written permission for posted property and verbal for un-posted property.
It shall be unlawful to discharge an arrow in a manner that can be reasonably expected to result in the impact of the arrow upon the property of another without permission from the owner, fee holder, or tenant.

Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries - Urban Archery Season (http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/urban-archery/)

We looked into various groups that hunt by property owner/HOA request when we noticed a tree stand along one of the trails we frequent out of our barn. The contact person for Suburban Whitetail Deer Management of Northern VA (http://www.swmnv.com/) reported back that the stand was not one that they had installed. The man I spoke with was very helpful and concerned that I understood how conscientious their members are.

You have recourse if you are willing to report the incidents.

wildlifer
Nov. 24, 2009, 10:13 AM
Fortunately in the UK it's illegal to have a gun without a licence and if you break any legislation then you lose the licence and can't go shooting.

It's an offence to shoot on anyone's land without permission.

It's an offence to shoot from or across a public highway.



These are also laws here. Making everyone follow them, however, is the issue.

Wendy is also correct that the "population control" excuse is often misused. Shooting bucks does NOTHING to control population and is completely pointless aside from some compenstory ego boost for the shooter -- she is correct in that to make a real dent, you have to continually remove large numbers of does every year (they taste better anyway) as therein lie the numbers.

SmartAlex
Nov. 24, 2009, 10:50 AM
We always have trouble with uninvited hunters. This year, during archery season, DH and Neighbor were out with the tractor posting along a power line right of way. DH was driving, neighbor was riding along, nailing brand new No Tresspassing signs (remember this)... unknown hunter walks up to them and asks... "Do you guys know who owns that land?" As Bill Engvall says... here's yer sign.

Anyway, unknown hunter wanted to know of they had seen a tree stand his Dad had left in a tree last year. Yep, it's down at the police station, but if you claim it, you will be arrested for trespassing. :yes: Dumba$$.

danceronice
Nov. 24, 2009, 11:20 AM
Does are good eating. Dad actually got a buck this year besides a doe, but normally he just fills his antlerless on opening day because that's what he sees and spends the rest of the season..."still hunting." (Ie, he goes for long walks in the woods and happens to have a gun. Which is STILL more productive than turkey season usually is. I swear, the toms have a calendar and know exactly what shotgun range is, too.)

Aimee Thanatogenus
Nov. 24, 2009, 01:24 PM
Hunting? I don't think "hunting" applies any more to the aberration it's become. Men in the most outrageous camo garb sitting in trees (deer stands) with the latest in technology overlooking baited (formerly/recently) fields and just hang out and await a target. Or the shooting of a wayward deer from a vehicle driving along a road. They use dogs in some areas to flush and run them to the shooters. There is no hunting to it. They simply find the easier course of action to kill something by using the least effort. The weekend warriors have no respect for boudaries, property or other living creatures. Apparently it's some sort of testosterone rush of power to kill something. It's disgusting. We have had problems on our farm off and on, not so much now though. We back up to a wooded area with alot of wildlife (and great trails!) and have had hunters encroach.
Pe

AMEN!!!!!!

I have a large expanse of timber land behind me, sandwiched between that are several hundred acres of farm land.
"Hunters" are truly a joke.
I saw a bumper sticker that said:
"Protect Wildlife, Hunt Wolves"

I want one that says:
"Protect Wildlife, hunt Hunters"

I've seen a number of animals shot only to bleed out on my fence trying to jump it to get to a tree line on my property.
These people have absolutely NOT ONE IOTA of an idea of sport, or the chase.
Atrocious!

JSwan
Nov. 24, 2009, 03:26 PM
ou have to continually remove large numbers of does every year (they taste better anyway) as therein lie the numbers.


Well yeah, if any of y'all look up what the regs you'd see that's what the goal is. You have to fill your tag with antlerless before you can kill buck. At least in my state (which has a horrible deer problem east of the Blue Ridge) the goal is to reduce the herd. The most efficient method of hunting is to use deer dogs - it account for 40% of the deer harvest in this state.

Everythingbutwings posted a link to a good group - Suburban Whitetail Management. This is a group that helps urban/suburban HOA's and landowners reduce deer populations in highly populated areas. The group has liability insurance, the hunters are vetted, licensed, and proficient.

wildlifer
Nov. 24, 2009, 04:18 PM
Yes, JSwan, I am aware of that, I work for the state wildlife and fisheries agency. We basically give out unlimited doe tags. Getting people weaned off the testosterone driven obsession with bucks is another step entirely.

Frank B
Nov. 24, 2009, 04:30 PM
The QDMA (http://www.qdma.com/) is another contact point for deet population control.