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Codybug
Nov. 21, 2009, 11:47 PM
Hi, everyone!
I just bought this 3yr old OTTB mare from a friend and I am retraining her for eventing. What do ya'll think of her bloodline and confo? I know that there are little kids riding her but, it was in a controlled arena, and she is really laid back.

Pictures(sorry they are mixed in with other ones) http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/album.php?aid=2026400&id=1202365363&page=3

Pedigree http://www.pedigreequery.com/iluvaparade

Thanks!!

ThreeFigs
Nov. 22, 2009, 12:33 AM
i can't access the photos for some reason, but that pedigree is a Who's Who of the TB world! Cool!

How long has she been off the track? How did she do while she was there?

Codybug
Nov. 22, 2009, 12:58 AM
she has been off the track for about 5 months, she never raced. But she is a big sweetheart! Does this link work? http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2026400&id=1202365363&l=6cfaa72308

Codybug
Nov. 22, 2009, 12:59 AM
I don't know much about the TB bloodlines, could you help me out?

ThreeFigs
Nov. 22, 2009, 02:01 AM
Yes, those photos came through.

Glad you had a shot of her without tack and boots. It's hard to give an opinion on conformation if the photos aren't set up for that purpose. The first thing I see is, she needs groceries. She's been off the track for five months and she's still thin. Ask your vet for a feeding/worming/vaccination schedule.

Her neck is set on awfully low and has no muscle. Not too surprising for an OTTB youngster. Her overall demeanor in the photos doesn't say "gentle" as much as it says "tired & underfed". She may wake up and be a very different horse once she gets some weight and condition on her.

Please be careful putting everybody in the barn on this youngster. It's a liability I wouldn't take on, and not especially good for the horse.

Are you working with a good riding instructor/trainer? You will need GOOD advice and guidance as you bring this filly along.

Google some of the names in your filly's pedigree. Mr. Prospector, Raise a Native, Hail to Reason are good ones to start with. Hopefully other COTHers will stop in with their observations.

Codybug
Nov. 22, 2009, 11:10 AM
Ok, thanks for the help, I always work her hard before I even think about putting anybody else up on her and we just walk them around. The pictures of the little girl trotting was just one lap around the indoor arena. I am working with a instructer for myself, but I don't own a trailer to haul her somewhere for a trainer. We are feeding her a large scoop of pellets/oats/sweet feed mix and 1/2 c. of corn oil and 3 large flakes of hay. She also has a 3 round bales in her pasture. What more should we give her?

Codybug
Nov. 22, 2009, 11:12 AM
she has already been wormed and had her teeth done also.

LauraKY
Nov. 22, 2009, 11:43 AM
I second the idea that you may be surprised once she's up to normal weight and fit. We've had a bunch that, if we didn't know better, would have given a 1 or 2 on the temperament scale, and with groceries and training (especially the groceries) they turned into 5 to 9s. Then with work, got most of them calmed back down. We also try to give at least 6 months turnout if they've been on the track. Don't know if your girl was in hard training, if so, you may want to think about some time off so she can learn to be a horse.

I agree, I would keep the youngsters off until you know what you actually have there.

Nix on the sweet feed! We fed sweet feed only to our polo ponies, we wanted them to have excess energy. Free choice, good quality hay, as much as she will eat. Then I strongly recommend a low carb feed (Triple Crown, Safe Choice, etc) corn oil is OK if she's eating it. Triple Crown Senior is good for putting weight on also and is fairly low in NSC.

Las Olas
Nov. 22, 2009, 12:52 PM
I think she looks ok for having been off the track for 5 months. They generally lose condition as they lose the muscle mass and it's not replaced by fat quickly enough. Their metabolism needs time to adjust and I've had it take a year, sometimes more, sometimes less. Like others have mentioned, stick to the 'cool' types of feed and free choice hay. You may also want to have a fecal done. Even with a good deworming program, certain species are a problem at the track and are becoming resistant. Generally, the charge for a fecal is around $11. Did you pull blood on her when you bought her?

Sorry to say, but her bloodlines are very poor for a racing thoroughbred. Way too much of the wrong kind of linebreeding (Mr. P through 2 sons and a full brother up close). As a side note, Parade Ground was a common idiot, so if she's sweet, you got a bonus.

ThreeFigs
Nov. 22, 2009, 01:07 PM
I learn something every day here! I'm not that knowledgeable on TB pedigrees, and get all excited about the "older" names on the papers. Like Man 'O War, Hyperion, Mumtaz Begum, etc. Didn't know who Parade Ground is or was, or what his character was like.

Ask your vet about a feeding regimen. I'd have her on soaked beet pulp or soaked hay cubes -- something soft and easy to eat, just in case she's teething and is having trouble eating. TB's can be notoriously hard keepers, your filly especially so right now, because she's still growing and is in the middle of a "career change".

LauraK's feeding ideas are excellent!

Please, please don't treat her like a pony ride at the park!

ThreeFigs
Nov. 22, 2009, 01:15 PM
Just another thought. You say you "work her hard" before putting anyone else on her. Please, and this is why I suggest working closely with an experienced teacher or trainer, don't work her hard, work her CORRECTLY. If you don't know what that is, you need help!

Whenever you are working with a horse, you are teaching it SOMETHING. Be sure you are teaching it the RIGHT things. It's awfully hard to undo bad riding and training, and you decrease the horse's value rather than increase it if things are done wrong.

Las Olas, what do you think of the pedigree, given that OP wants to event this mare? I bought an OTTB years ago that couldn't run a lick, but had fabulous jumping bloodlines. I see some familiar names in this mare's pedigree, but they're somewhat far back.

TKR
Nov. 22, 2009, 01:38 PM
That much Mr. P up close would make me very nervous and nix the deal for me. Even if she is fairly correct, there is so much history of them not holding up, but maybe it will balance out with some of the "good" lines like Hail To Reason, Crimson Satan and His Majesty. Good luck.

Horses off the track are like starting babies, they only are ridden about 15 minutes a day. So they are not programmed for "hard" work or long periods. You have to allow them to learn to learn and progress it by lengthening the time period over a number of weeks and months. Their attention span won't last that long at first. They are creatures of routine and habit and your training should take that into consideration. You also don't want to overwork them in a new disipline that incorporates a different style of riding and use of different muscles as well as the mental part. Keep it short and simple listen to the horse so you can stop on a positive note when you feel the resistance starting. There is no advantage to working this horse hard at this point.
PennyG

Laurierace
Nov. 22, 2009, 01:49 PM
This is a generic question posed to everyone who comes to this forum and asks that question, not just the OP. Why do you care what her pedigree is? She was bred to race although I use that term pretty lightly as I am not impressed in the least by her sire and dam. Her racing career is now over, most likely before it even began successfully speaking. What you see is what you get and what you will have from here on out. Get some knowledgeable help and go on with her life, no?

Rubyfree
Nov. 22, 2009, 02:12 PM
This is a generic question posed to everyone who comes to this forum and asks that question, not just the OP. Why do you care what her pedigree is? She was bred to race although I use that term pretty lightly as I am not impressed in the least by her sire and dam. Her racing career is now over, most likely before it even began successfully speaking. What you see is what you get and what you will have from here on out. Get some knowledgeable help and go on with her life, no?


And a generic response, again not really directed to the OP.

While some of it may stem from genuine interest in the proclivity of certain bloodlines to produce competent sport horses, I think most of the interest in researching the family of OTTB's being retrained comes from plain curiosity- TB's are the only breed widely accessible to the average horse person that have well documented family and history. Given that most TB's hit the track at some point, even if just for training, there is a reasonable likelihood that someone somewhere will remember your horse, or it's dam or sire, and that is sort of interesting to people who may be used to owning horses whose previous history is completely untraceable. I agree that it doesn't change a thing and that 99 times out of 100, the information you are going to get isn't going to be anymore interesting than "I saw her run, she finished out of the money" or "She was at X track at the same time I was", but I think it's just fun for new OTTB owners to look into it.

tbracer65
Nov. 22, 2009, 02:12 PM
As a side note, Parade Ground was a common idiot, so if she's sweet, you got a bonus.

I was going to say the EXACT same thing. I had a son of Parade Ground & he was a royal pain in the butt!! He had his own mind & it was a struggle to do ANYthing with him....I almost took the cutters myself & chopped him (when I bought him he was a colt).

....maybe him being on the dams side is different, who knows??

...as for the kids riding -- at least you were smart enough to have helmets for them!!

danceronice
Nov. 22, 2009, 08:12 PM
I got one look at the pedigree and my worry for an eventer would be seeing Raise a Native and his garbage ankles that many times up close. I would be another who'd pass on a horse with those lines, for racing or anything.

But as she's three you'll have a lot of time before jumping her, right?

I would second what Beasmom said--I have had the problem of having to "unteach" a thoroughbred. I would not try to wear her down so you can put kids on her--she's too young and has too much to learn herself. Plus on the sweet feed she may end up being hotter than you think and the worst time to find that out would be when you've got a kid up.

Las Olas
Nov. 22, 2009, 08:45 PM
Las Olas, what do you think of the pedigree, given that OP wants to event this mare? I bought an OTTB years ago that couldn't run a lick, but had fabulous jumping bloodlines. I see some familiar names in this mare's pedigree, but they're somewhat far back.

Honestly, I don't have a clue, Beasmom. I am pretty much exclusively into racing, although I grew up h/j and polo. Last time I showed anything was IHSA...a looong time ago. Someone else will have to answer that one.

Las Olas
Nov. 22, 2009, 08:55 PM
And a generic response, again not really directed to the OP.

While some of it may stem from genuine interest in the proclivity of certain bloodlines to produce competent sport horses, I think most of the interest in researching the family of OTTB's being retrained comes from plain curiosity- TB's are the only breed widely accessible to the average horse person that have well documented family and history. Given that most TB's hit the track at some point, even if just for training, there is a reasonable likelihood that someone somewhere will remember your horse, or it's dam or sire, and that is sort of interesting to people who may be used to owning horses whose previous history is completely untraceable. I agree that it doesn't change a thing and that 99 times out of 100, the information you are going to get isn't going to be anymore interesting than "I saw her run, she finished out of the money" or "She was at X track at the same time I was", but I think it's just fun for new OTTB owners to look into it.

I agree. The pedigree may be completely irrelevant, but I think it's great that people with OTTB's want to research pedigrees and learn about their horses' backround and I'm happy to help, if I can. I think it's good business to try to develop interest in our sport, and it looks like Codybug has a lot of potential racing fans at her place.

ETA: Here's a link to more information on Parade Ground. I don't know anything about Hoss N Ryder, other than he stood in IL.

http://www.lanesend.com/stallions/stallions/parade_ground/index.html

Laurierace
Nov. 22, 2009, 09:00 PM
I can understand wanting to reach out and see if anyone here has an dealings with people from the horse's past. But to delve into the pedigree to see the tendencies etc seems silly to me. You aren't looking to breed a horse and get an insight into what type of animal may result. You have the living, breathing animal right there in front of you. It doesn't matter that her line may be crazy or unsound etc as long as she isn't. It just seems like the animal in front of you is going to answer much more of your questions than the pedigree can.

ThreeFigs
Nov. 22, 2009, 09:24 PM
Very true, Laurierace, but I'll confess I have spent an embarrassing amount of time tracing pedigrees back to the Stone Age just for the fun of it.

My Hanoverian has a "Quarter Horse" (early 1800's) in his ancestry! Means nothing at all, that far back, it's just an interesting factoid!

My Hanoverian, my ISR mare and my long-gone OTTB all share TB ancestors. Again, pretty meaningless, just interests me.

I'll admit I'm easily amused!

Las Olas
Nov. 22, 2009, 09:28 PM
I can understand wanting to reach out and see if anyone here has an dealings with people from the horse's past. But to delve into the pedigree to see the tendencies etc seems silly to me. You aren't looking to breed a horse and get an insight into what type of animal may result. You have the living, breathing animal right there in front of you. It doesn't matter that her line may be crazy or unsound etc as long as she isn't. It just seems like the animal in front of you is going to answer much more of your questions than the pedigree can.

Well, I once had a mare that ran decent on the dirt and she looked like a dirt horse. So, no one ever thought of trying her on the grass. I claimed her for $10k. She had a couple of turf runners in her pedigree, so we decided to try on turf for the heck of it. She wins her first turf start by 7 and turns into a nice ALW level turf horse. So, even though I had the living, breathing thing in front of me, her pedigree gave me the idea to try her on grass.

I hear what you're saying, and certainly agree to a point, but I do think that pedigrees can be helpful in determining performance, even after you are looking at the result.

TKR
Nov. 22, 2009, 09:38 PM
With all due respect, the OP DID ask for opinions on the pedigree and conformation with an eye towards pursuing an eventing career and possibly breeding. The sporthorse folks are also interested in pedigree and conformation as it's pertinent to holding up for the activity one is bought or being bred to do. So I think my answer was relevant. JMHO --
Cheers!
PennyG

Beam Me Up
Nov. 22, 2009, 10:10 PM
This is a generic question posed to everyone who comes to this forum and asks that question, not just the OP. Why do you care what her pedigree is? She was bred to race although I use that term pretty lightly as I am not impressed in the least by her sire and dam. Her racing career is now over, most likely before it even began successfully speaking. What you see is what you get and what you will have from here on out. Get some knowledgeable help and go on with her life, no?

OK, I'll bite.
I'm a non-race person (an eventer) and over the years have bought a bunch of OTTBs, both for myself and for resale projects. And I always look up their pedigrees and records.

A lot of it is, as you imply, that cheesy "gee whiz" stuff that comes with being outside of, and somewhat awed by the race industry. Non horse people are even more impressed. We had a party a few weeks ago and my SO bragged to folks there that I had a Secretariat and an Alydar grandson out in the field--everyone put on their shoes and went to see them--even they knew those names (and I guess not the frequency with which they show up in pedigrees).

Similarly, I just bought one off the track last month and found 2 winning races on youtube. And watched them like 5x each. I know, it changes nothing about the horse I own, it was just kind of fun to watch. And I bought one of the win pictures. I'm a dork.


For more serious reasons, when you buy off the track you are evaluating the horse in front of you, but all it's really doing is jogging the shedrow. For sporthorse buyers, seeing them in the track environment is almost like buying something unbroken in terms of predicting "emotional" traits like rideability or jumping bravery. A lot of sporthorse folks feel that some lines are better/worse suited to different disciplines, and since you can't ride or jump the horse yourself, those insights can be useful.

Same is true for resale--if people have strong feelings about some lines for sport, knowing those can help you pick a better project. I had a really stubborn, difficult horse with Danzig close up, and everyone kept ooh-ing over how Danzig is so great for amateurs and so trainable. Not that one, but I really think it created interest.

By the same token, I just had the easiest first month off the track ever with a Storm Cat paternal grandson, who I'm planning to keep, but I know that would concern some people for resale.

Anyway, I'm sure this gets so old for race folks, and I understand why, but it's a new thrill for us every time. We love it when you indulge us!