One draw rein???

[VanEq]

Okay... please help me here. I have recently moved to BC and in the year I've been here this has come up several times. I'm trying to figure out if it's a regional thing, a new fad, or just something I've never noticed.

The first time I saw it, a girl at my barn was in a lesson (with a well-known local dressage trainer), and was riding with a lead rope attached to the girth and run through the bit on one side, like a draw rein. I admit, I stared for a bit... I've never seen this before. Since then, I've seen others riding this way, and then one day I took a young gelding to a learner-type show (where you ride the test once, get judge's comments and then ride the test again) and one of her suggestions to me was to ride with one draw rein "on his bad side". I am so boggled by this... am I just out of the loop??

[cute_lil_fancy_pants_pony]

I saw Michael Poulin had someone do this in a clinic. Ehh... Not a fan, but I'm not gonna freak out about it, I guess it might be better than riding with two draw reins, it will really let you know if you are relying on your draw rein too much.

[ideayoda]

It is a substitute for the rider having the ability to put the horse to the bit. And draw reins are not to enforce longitudinal flexion but lateral flexion, and only momentarily. I have seen it used by one international trainer so that the girls can ride their big $$ horses and do movements....sorta irrelevant if the rider really cant keep the horse on the bit even in a full bridle.

And if one was to put in only the bad side, that is usually the opposite side of where they are putting it since the horse is out of balance and defensive.

[pintopiaffe]

During a certain phase of my riding/learning that might have included an above mentioned trainer, I had success with using just one draw rein on a very thickly built fjord who's head just about outweighed me (not an easy feat, trust me!) It was used very briefly, 3 rides maybe? But made a breakthrough in teaching her what she could do.

<shrugs> Haven't ever felt the need to bring it out again for *riding*, but have used it now and again while lunging. generally a normal side rein on the outside, and a sliding side rein--a draw rein--on the inside.

The irony of draw reins, or a single draw rein, is the majority of people educated enough to know when and how to use it, are usually the ones who DON'T need it. ;)

Some trainers have ideas about the level of resistance/submission which is acceptable and isn't. Since they have the seat to back it up, I'm not going to judge them.

An incredibly qualified instructor had me use a side rein like a standing martingale for a lesson (girth to cavesson) on my guy coming back from what should've been a career ending injury. It worked a charm--horse hit it when resisting only. When I sheepishly mentioned to a friend how horrified I was (mostly that it worked) I said "yabbbut--it's a crutch!" Friend's wise reply was, "yes, and your horse is coming back from injury. WE use crutches when we are injured, and rehabbing. When we are back to 100% we don't use the crutch any more."

Sometimes there IS a place for something. Unless I'm the one on the horse's back, or the one on the ground TELLING the rider, then I really can't be too harshly judgemental. <shrugs>

[slc2]

Got no problem with it, seen it, done it. :lol:

Never used a lead shank, though. Used a heavy clothesline type string with a snap on one end. Trick is that one can drop it if a problem ensues and it ceases to have any effect immediately.

When the horse has learned some bad habits and 'has the rider's number' it can really help, such as when the horse is pulling the rider out of the saddle, ducking its head and dumping the rider, etc. Works very well with thick necked strong willed ponies.

[EqTrainer]

Tee hee, I like that La String name.

Very effective when dealing with a horse who grabs the bit on one side, braces against it and takes off.

So like most things, it has a time and place to be used, as a corrective when someone else has allowed a horse to learn to do something nasty/dangerous.

A single drawrein thru the cavesson can be equally effective without the same amount of leverage.

[slc2]

The pony that scraped the kid off backwards running under a fence plank, got Le String. So did the one that pulled on his side reins til the donuts on 'em broke.

[egontoast]

Schumacher sometimes uses that (through the cavesson).

I think POSSIBLY it's more for the rider than the horse.

[EqTrainer]

The pony that scraped the kid off backwards got Le String. So did the one that pulled on his side reins til the donuts on 'em broke.

:lol: sometimes I wonder about LMEqT's pony having a single grazing rein.. is it a crutch that she will lean on forever? Horrors of horrors, a gadget!

Just joking of course :D

[Zigea]

The only time I have ever used draw reins or shall I say "draw rein" on my now 19 year old gelding is when we started our changes. You'd ask, he'd change, throw his head up in the air and take off. Using the draw rein eliminated the head throwing and taking off until he figured out exactly what we were asking of him.

I used it for about a month. He finally started listening to the half halt and was definitely softer and for him it seemed to work. Since then he has always been a flying change machine and is never ever late behind even when he is not set up correctly...just don't as about our collected work. lol

[Tif_Ann]

Our trainer calls it a "guiding rein" but she runs it through the noseband. We've only used it on one horse who had horrible balance problems (he wears corrective, weighted shoes in the summer to help with his back end as well). I didn't use it - my sister did - so I have never really listened to my trainer's logic behind it, other than it is to help with his balance and works somewhat like a standing martingale. Her horse also had a serious problem with throwing his head up. She's also used martingales on that horse, so obviously there is a difference.

[Beasmom]

Yeah, I've seen Schumacher's version that uses one draw rein run through the cavesson. Similar effect, no pressure on the mouth.

[Ibex]

LOL - maybe, it's a bit of a regional thing! I bet I know which trainer or "school" of trainer you were watching teach.

I'm guessing the horse was bracing off that side and the trainer wanted the rider to use the rein to reinforce bend/flexion when the horse was resisting/tuning out the correct aid.

Used correctly, it's a great tool, and no, you will not be going to hell for it :lol:

My trainer used a single one to teach changes on her old mare, and I rode in both for a while with my youngster who would fling her head in the air, brace, and totally tune out correct aids when asked to do something that might be considered "work". Now that she's developed a work ethic and gotten it through her head that she's got to listen to the leg/seat, we've taken them off.

[lstevenson]

It is a substitute for the rider having the ability to put the horse to the bit.


Totally agree.

[slc2]

Emphasis - using a lead shank is wrong. It needs to be string, that will break, and is very light. Otherwise it does not release properly or fall away easily if something goes wrong.

Too, it's not exactly a draw rein. It goes from the girth billets to the inside of the bit, out to the outside of the bit and back to the hand.

Draw reins can be strung that way, but the fact that there are two of them makes their action very different. And far easier for the rider to 'just' get the horse OFF the bit, rather than actually get him to bend correctly.

Getting the horse on the bit???? I don't think that's what it is for or what it does. I think it is something that allows the rider to BEND a horse that is overpowering him and running through his aids. I don't think it actually 'puts the horse on the bit' at all.

It may be that because of it, the rider can get some semblance of control of a horse, so that he has a HOPE of then getting him on the bit!

It allows the rider to have some semblance of control without yanking the rein til the horse has a 12 inch smile, without putting a harsher bit or caveson on. Instead of bulking up for a few months and then yanking the horse's face off every time he turns into a runaway tank. Instead of blocking the horse with the reins in a panic because he feels he has no control. Instead of watching helplessly the tiny weak rider who can't sit and use her core and use her reins effectively, on her 2000 lb equine Semi.

The old masters were pretty big on riding in some sort of assist when they needed to. The idea was, that the horse is then controllable with a lighter but still correct hand. Such things can indeed be misused, and often are, of course. That's why it's good to learn to use it with a great trainer who knows not only when to put Le String on, but when to take Le String off.

Giving of the rein is great. But there has to be some balance. When the rider doesn't have a balance between give and take, and is too much one or the other, he can create for himself some pretty awful riding problems, when he has a very strong, athletic youngster, he may have that without ever having done anything wrong. That's where Le String comes in.

[DownYonder]

I too have heard of Conrad Schumacher using it at clinics - but in the cases I know about, he put it through the bit ring, not the caveson. Several of these instances were with talented young riders who knew how to put a horse on the bit, just needed a bit of help with a horse very stiff to one side and/or blowing through their aids on one side.

[lstevenson]

Too, it's not exactly a draw rein. It goes from the girth billets to the inside of the bit, out to the outside of the bit and back to the hand.

Draw reins can be strung that way, but the fact that there are two of them makes their action very different.


That's exactly how draw reins are usually used. The variation, which is even worse, is anchoring them between the front legs.

And the "action" is leverage, which is the same whether there is one draw rein or two.

[mbm]

Totally agree.

yup. when i was in canada i saw it a lot - altho i was in ontario. a certain trainer used it for most horses/riders.

it is a short cut for a rider that does not have the skills to work thru the stiffness of the horse.

i also see them used on $$$$$ horses with young riders. again it allows them to do the tricks without the horse working correctly.

i am not sure tho.... if it can help the rider "get" a concept then it is taken off - okay. but if it is used as a crutch day after day? not so good.

[dressageUK]

When I've seen Conrad Schumacher use it, it was on a horse that was giving the rider a really hard time. If you have a big moving horse that is unsteady in the contact & are working on your seat, it becomes a repeating circle.

The rein steadies the horse down, which allows the rider to ride better & then there is no need for the rein. I don't agree in it being used daily & automatically on all horse & rider combos but have found it personally useful for a short period. So I won't condemn it's use & it's one of those tools in the training box, but it's having the discipline to put it away.

[lstevenson]

The rein steadies the horse down, which allows the rider to ride better & then there is no need for the rein.


Steadies the horse down? That's a more politically correct way of saying pulls the head down. It teaches the horse to carry his head in a false frame, and once he knows that there is no need for the rein. ;) And the damage is done. He will tend to stay in that false frame and never really be through to the bit.

[sid]

Interesting topic.

Our trainer/instructior here many years ago, Sue Kenny, who was from the same era/school as as Mike, Carol, Pam-- who all trained under Rehbein did use this technique, very judiciously on one particular very strong horse that grabbed the right rein and could become out of control for that rider's hands.

Fixed the problem for the rider (and the horse), then back to business. Put the side rein away.

Surely, not a cookie cutter training method, just for a severe problem for a short period of time until the desired results were achieved.

[Beasmom]

Ditto, sid!

It's a tool, like a screwdriver or pliers. You use it to fix a problem, then back into the toolbox it goes.

You may never need to use it again.

[EqTrainer]

Ditto, sid!

It's a tool, like a screwdriver or pliers. You use it to fix a problem, then back into the toolbox it goes.

You may never need to use it again.

Exactly!

One horse that I used it on had been grabbing one side of the bit, flipping his shoulder against it and bolting for quite some time. Once he was fixed, that was it, he never did it again.. is now a childs horse and has been for many years, a great guy.

Of course I also had his atrocious teeth done and got his feet fixed and his head put back on straight again but I did need that one draw rein to show him that it was all over!

[thatsnotme]

I had a trainer put one on my mare last year. it actually crossed under in front. So, hooked to the left side of the girth, through the right snaffle ring and to my right hand. Helped alot with not wanting to flex right and throwing the shoulder. We used it alot for about a month, then weaned off it.

[Beasmom]

Every time I scroll past this thread title, I think of that song about "One Meatball".

Then I get an earworm.

[dressageUK]

Steadies the horse down? That's a more politically correct way of saying pulls the head down. It teaches the horse to carry his head in a false frame, and once he knows that there is no need for the rein. ;) And the damage is done. He will tend to stay in that false frame and never really be through to the bit.

Well for me it was useful, riding a tricky huge moving mare that good pros also found a complex ride. It was only used for 10-15 minutes & instead of a fight, got us both to a good place without a big battle & was then removed. As others have said, a tool for select use but I hardly think using it for 15 mins taught the horse to go in a false frame & caused unfixable damage ;)

[alicen]

Is there a marketing opportunity here? The sale of one draw rein for just slightly more than 1/2 the price of two?

[Beasmom]

Hey, go for it, alicen!

[lstevenson]

I hardly think using it for 15 mins taught the horse to go in a false frame & caused unfixable damage ;)


You'd be suprised. That can be all it takes for leverage to teach a horse that he should tuck his nose in the direction of his chest when he feels contact. And THAT is a hard problem to fix. But riders seem to go on blindly thinking everything is great, since the horse is now not resisting and is carrying his head "in position".

[slc2]

You don't understand marketing at all.

It's LE STRING, it costs 125 dollars, it is most emphatically NOT one draw rein, it's DIFFERENT, and BETTER, and it's made of clothesline, not leather, so your markup is more.

[alicen]

Hey, you go for it, slc!

[slc2]

Watch. The minute I start selling Le String, I will become French.

Fact is, it's just as possible to misuse Le String as it is possible to misuse ANY training technique or equipment.

AND WITH MY 8 - DVD SET, you are most certainement, not going to go WONG!

[Blackberry Farm]

I wonder what colors will be "in" next spring! ;)

[Blackberry Farm]

BTW I'm for showing them "the ropes" when it will help. :)

[alicen]

How about a punk version in baling twine for the younger set?

[Beasmom]

That sounds more like a White Trash Dressage thing to me!

[alicen]

That sounds more like a White Trash Dressage thing to me!

That ,too. To be used when wearing low rise breeches and a sport riding bra.

[Blackberry Farm]

Maybe one in a nice leopard print too??-Matching cami top for rider?

[Beasmom]

That ,too. To be used when wearing low rise breeches and a sport riding bra.

And an exposed thong!

[dressageUK]

You'd be suprised. That can be all it takes for leverage to teach a horse that he should tuck his nose in the direction of his chest when he feels contact. And THAT is a hard problem to fix. But riders seem to go on blindly thinking everything is great, since the horse is now not resisting and is carrying his head "in position".

Well in this case the horse still tends to go a little too up & open & last show we got 70% plus at second level so I'm pretty happy :D

[EqTrainer]

Watch. The minute I start selling Le String, I will become French.

Fact is, it's just as possible to misuse Le String as it is possible to misuse ANY training technique or equipment.

AND WITH MY 8 - DVD SET, you are most certainement, not going to go WONG!


Better yet.... have Mr. EqT do the infomercial. The french accent will add to the cachet of this priceless item that the unwashed masses cannot do without...

what will you add FOR FREE if they call and buy NOW?!!!

:lol:

[Beasmom]

The complete 10-volume set of "Everything I Know" by SLC. Leather-bound and signed by the author!

[slc2]

No no no no no. Not interesting to know what slc knows. Slc is just a middle aged amateur.

BUT....INTERESTING to know what the CREATOR OF LE STRING knows. And not something the CREATOR OF LE STRING would SHARE IN A DVD, too easy to be MISINTERPRETED! YOU MUST SIGN UP FOR THE CLINICS!

[Beasmom]

Oh, very good! I bow to your superior marketing instincts!

[alicen]

what will you add FOR FREE if they call and buy NOW?!!!

:lol:[/QUOTE]
A single, specially designed glitter glove, left or right hand.

[slc2]

Le hell with ze jeweled glove, EET HAS BEEN DONE!

Inventeur de Le String (LA STRING?) will provide a SINGLE JEWELED SOCK.

Though a single glove would be more practical. You'll need it if Dobbin takes exception to LE STRING....especially EEEF we make EEET of zee cheap clotheseline!

[goeslikestink]

No no no no no. Not interesting to know what slc knows. Slc is just a middle aged amateur.

BUT....INTERESTING to know what the CREATOR OF LE STRING knows. And not something the CREATOR OF LE STRING would SHARE IN A DVD, too easy to be MISINTERPRETED! YOU MUST SIGN UP FOR THE CLINICS!

so why post as a guru then

[slc2]

You assume that is what it means.

[SpiritN]

Schumacher sometimes uses that (through the cavesson).

I think POSSIBLY it's more for the rider than the horse.

Back to the point of the original message......

I have seen Schumacher do this several times in his clinics including on my own horse. All the times I have seen it, the rein goes through the flash, not the cavesson. In these instances, the bridle always had a flash of course. It goes under the chin. The rein is held on the "soft" side. For example, if your horse is really stiff on the right then you would hold the extra rein on the left.

I am not speaking for Schumacher in any way but just reporting how I have seen it done many times.

I use it from time to time on horses and it works great in the proper context.

[Beasmom]

Interesting -- and I saw it done by Schumacher at one of his clinics through the cavesson -- there WAS a flash on the bridle. Maybe it depends on the horse's needs where he places the rein?

[SpiritN]

Interesting Beasmom - could be related to the construction of the bridle too? (I am only speculating.) In my horse's case, the cavesson was quite wide and flat. I can say for sure it went throught the flash though.

Weird. I guess the point though is that it does not go through the bit ring. In my horse's case he explained to auditors that he feels this is a more gentle set up than traditional draw reins which would hit the mouth more quickly and more directly when the horse inverts. (My horse was extremely green when she cliniced with him and was particularly freaked out at the setting that day thus was inverting and scooting at the crowd. )

[Beasmom]

Yes, that's the same explanation he used the day I attended the clinic. Gentler than going through the bit ring.

Might the rein through the flash be slightly less "direct" than through the cavesson? Just wondering, and I certainly could be wrong.

The horse I saw it used on (through the cavesson) was very strong and overpowering its very petite rider.

[mvp]

Wow-- one draw rein to "fix the bad side"

I'll make the OP and any takers here any one of the following bets:

1) The horse is ridiculously weak or unsound on the hind leg on the same side as the draw rein.

2) The rider is an effective "trainer-type" rider who gets the job done (sometimes on "bad ones")... and is crooked, has no clue and has been that way for some time.

3) Others of the trainer's horses have the same "bad side"

4) Sooner or later, a whip shows up on the "bad side" or that one gets the spur rub.

I'm not being mean, just putting together what I know about "horses with bad sides" and bridle-centric solutions. I think using a one draw rein this way is probably digging an existing hole deeper.

[Beasmom]

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

(Attributed to Sigmund Freud)

[SpiritN]

Well mvp, I am not interested in your bet, but are you suggesting that many green horses do not naturally have one side that is stiffer than the other?

(Note: " fixing the bad side" is your language - not mine.)

[lstevenson]

Well mvp, I am not interested in your bet, but are you suggesting that many green horses do not naturally have one side that is stiffer than the other?


Of course most horses have a stiffer side, but the problem is not in the mouth!!! And therefore is not solved by using leverage on the mouth.

A horse's one sided-ness is only truely corrected by correct lateral work which strengthens the horses weaker side and makes him truely straight.

Then the horse will feel even in both reins, and it won't be because you tried to artifically make it that way with a single draw rein, it will be because of correct dressage training.

[SpiritN]

Yes, lstevenson, but if you read in my case - my horse was scared and inverting and spooking away from the bleachers. This isn't very helpful in a clinic situation or safe for a rider either. (I was not the rider BTW.) So, in this case when she surprised us with this behavior (because we would not have put her in this situation if we had known she would react this way - she had always been really level headed) this is what Schumacher did.

I am (again) not speaking for him. I am not saying what he did was right or wrong. I am not saying it was to fix one side or another. I am just repeating how he suggested it would be set up in the sense of which side you hold the single rein on.

The OP was asking if anyone had seen it and I was reporting back how I had seen it done and under what circumstances.

[Beasmom]

This technique puts no leverage on the mouth. It limits the horse's ability to resist through stiffening and inverting the neck. It is not used for long, only as a tool to get through a tough spot.

Lstevenson, while I respect your abilities and experience with horses, IMHO you're being too dogmatic on this. As much as you know, and as much as you've accomplished, I think Schumacher trumps you.

[Atypical]

I too have seen Conrad Schumacher use it in a clinic. I 'believe' it was through the bit, but I can't precisely recall. I thought it was very interesting. The rider was a very talented young rider, one who most certainly could put her horse on the bit.

[lstevenson]

This technique puts no leverage on the mouth.


If it's attached to the bit it puts leverage on the mouth. If it's attached to the cavesson, then it's leverage on the face. Both are simply covering up the problem instead of fixing it. And show a lack of skill or knowledge from the rider/trainer using them IMO. Or in the case of a clinician, possibly an attempt to rush things along to make themselves look good. ;)

[Beasmom]

When I attended his clinic, it was through the cavesson.

Of course, through the bit, it would place the leverage on the mouth. An asymmetrical application of a draw rein is worse than two draw reins -- so I have to conclude (hope) that either people's memories or vision are faulty.

Schumacher isn't here to defend himself, so we're all kind of p***ing up a rope.

[Atypical]

Well God knows Im blind as a bat, and it was YEARS ago. No reason to be snarky...

[Forte]

I am in the same area as the original poster, and I also have a very good idea of what trainer she is referring to. In our area, many of the trainers are trained by another very big name trainer. That very big name trainer uses this technique, therefore many of the less big name trainers use it as well.
I think drawreins (one or two) can be useful in very skilled hands. I am not skillful enough to use them effectively, so I don't use them.