View Full Version : What would coming 9yr horse that has upper level potential be priced/insured at?
Nov. 19, 2009, 09:20 PM
So I will be competing my TB next year and I am going to have to insure him for what he would be priced at. Not looking to sell (but as you know every horse has his price!) Little back ground on him:
8yr 16.1h TB gelding. Very very very large mover, has better movement then most WBs. Is a very sensative horse though, you have to ride him very correct and he can get a bit grouchy if you have an unsteady leg. Has very smooth and correct gaits, knows shoulder in (though better one way then the other, but working on that this winter among other things), haunches in, leg yeild, and working on his flying changes. As for over fences can jump 4ft with ease when in shape, but is going to be spending a lot of time doing grid work as he can get a bit rushy though has improved 200% just in the last week. Honest to his fences, but has a huge jump on him. Will do anything to not pull a rail. Has schooled up to Prelim with ease and is very bold.
However he has only ever done a BN due to my health these last few years. Went on a couple of fox hunts with his former rider. He will never be a packer though as he is just to hot and has to much power under him. Though he does not take a 'joke' well, he will bale himself out of a situation as he has true XC sense. The goal is to do Prelim by late fall if he goes well at his other events. What would be the right number to insure him for? My insurance company usually insures my horses for what they would be marketed at. Any suggestions? Not looking to sell him (so please don't take this as a sales ad) as I am hoping he is my next Advanced horse.
Beam Me Up
Nov. 19, 2009, 09:33 PM
Most insurance companies will let you insure for up to "market value" which they usually determine by show record (you list shows, placings), unless it is a higher dollar horse (25K+ for my insurance) in which case they send out an appraiser.
My insurance has never asked about or touched upon questions of scope, carefulness, rideability, sanity, or even training beyond the show record. It matters for marketing, but insurance is way less detailed.
I think they are pretty flexible on valuing the less expensive horses, just because it is not a big enough payout to justify sending an appraiser for each, and because if you buy 20K instead of 10K of insurance, you're paying 2x as much.
Because more insurance is more expensive, you probably need to ask yourself what you would want/need if the worst happened. If you'd end up buying an OTTB, it isn't worth spending 3K on insurance annually. If you want to replace him, I don't know--at 9 and 1 BN maybe 10K, then bump it up when you in fact do go prelim?
Nov. 19, 2009, 09:34 PM
I had pretty much the exact same horse last year.
We insured her for $6500 and sold her this year for a little less than that. The owner and I discussed the possibility that though she was insured for that, they may not have paid out for that as she had no recognized events at the time of insurance and only four by the end of the year.
Nov. 19, 2009, 11:48 PM
My UL horse was insured for $10K. It was the max without any added special premiums that you will pay for an eventer. If I remember correctly, the higher the level the higher my premiums went (almost 50% higher than a pleasure horse and 25% higher than h/j).
Nov. 20, 2009, 12:05 AM
Hard question to answer as you are wanting to insure a horse based on potential not present value. I would not recommend insuring him above the level you are competing at. Just because your goal is to do Prelim by fall, you never know - how you will do at Novice & training, and quite personally I think going from BN to Prelim in one year is a bit ambitious. I would suggest you insure your horse for between 10-15K (depending on what you paid for him) and then figure out the MM portion. If Novice and Training is a breeze and you go on to prelim in fall you can probably up your insurance at that time w/ a simple phone call (like home/car insurance).
Nov. 20, 2009, 11:05 AM
The more you insure him for...the more expensive your insurance will be. The market price is just the MAX that you can insure them for...you can always insure them for less.
I never insure mine for their market value...just a basic amount...usually 7500-10K...what ever amount needed in order to get the max amount of major medical coverage;). Even if it isn't enough to get a horse of the same level or quality right away, it's enough to cover some of the vet bills (that might not get covered by the major medical) and maybe let me get another youngster if needed.
I have one who is easily worth 80K+...even in this market. He's still insured for 10K.
Nov. 20, 2009, 11:15 AM
What BFNE said. Insure for enough to get full major medical/surgical, and for enough to buy a nice youngster should the worst happen. Otherwise you'll be paying a fortune every year. We tend to insure for purchase price as modified (up or down) to fit the above rule - and only modified upward after showing actual competitive results. Most insurers won't give you a quote based on "potential".
Beam Me Up
Nov. 20, 2009, 11:21 AM
I never insure mine for their market value...just a basic amount...usually 7500-10K...what ever amount needed in order to get the max amount of major medical coverage;).
That's always been my approach too.
If my horse runs up a 5K vet bill, I need 5K right now to pay the vet.
If my horse dies, I have some time to figure out replacement strategy.
However, I might feel differently if I had just PAID 5 figures for the horse, and viewed myself as "out" that much.
Nov. 20, 2009, 11:57 AM
I would recommend insuring your horse at his present value (BN level eventer). Your premiums will be based on the value of the horse, and if anything were to happen to your horse and you went to collect an insurance payout, you will have to prove your horse's insured value.
When my horse died last winter, before the insurance company would payout on his mortality claim I had to send them a copy of the check I wrote when originally purchasing the horse. Then I had to provide them with proof of performance to justify the difference in value between his purchase price and his insured value. That is where the USEA database history comes in, as I printed off a copy of that, and the insurance company accepted it as proof of increased value since purchase price.
So, if you insure the horse at his prelim potential amount, but can only provide proof of performance at BN...I wouldn't expect a full insurance payout, no matter what you paid for premiums.
Insure for the BN value, then as his moves up the levels and you can document the performance, then increase his value accordingly with the insurance company. You can up the value in the middle of the year - you don't have to wait until annual renewal to do so.
Nov. 20, 2009, 12:25 PM
It's not a matter of choice, really. The OP is not going to be able to insure the horse for more than the purchase price without the justification of value based on a breeding or performance record. Mortality insurance is property insurance and the horse (or asset) cannot be insured for more than its actual value. I can't imagine any insurance carrier being willing to over-insure a horse based on its potential. That would be inviting anti-selection and insurance fraud. I believe a good many of us can recall what can happen when a horse is insured for a far greater amount than its actual value. Insurance underwriting has tightened up considering that history.