I just inhereted a really interesting mystery

[thatmoody]

My trainer's father, before he passed, left me his old saddle (ok, that really does sound weird but my trainer is a friend). This saddle has a really interesting history, and it probably will remain shrouded in mystery, but I know that some on COtH are very saddle savvy and perhaps could help me.

Harry was a jockey for the queen of England somewhere around the late 1940's, and lived in Morocco around that time. He told me that he bought the saddle in Morocco, although he was beginning to wander quite a bit so take that with a large grain of sea salt. He also raced in England, Denmark and Holland, and spent time in Germany but that was quite a bit later. I know that it's handmade, and has the stamp on the side "NAHU 06 80".

It has a stitched felt underside (I've never seen that). There is a maker's plate on it but the first word is undeceipherable (something ?atlerma? Weisbaden Schwalbachers). That sounds like a German saddlemaker, but even though I do know that Harry spent some time in Germany, he did tell me that he bought the saddle in Morocco, although perhaps it was a German saddlemaker working in Morocco?

I'm not going to sell it, but I'm just kinda interested in it. I've actually ridden in it - Harry actually is the one who gave me that thoroughbred I just had to put down, and he just gave me the saddle before he died. It's slippery as snot, but talk about close contact! I've uploaded some pictures here:
http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k307/thatmoody/Harryssaddle/

[Alagirl]

Well, considering the traffic morocco had in the early 1940s, German origin can't be completely dismissed.

Interesting piece. :)

( thought it was a racing saddle. Those I have seen with felt underneath.)

[Vibrant]

No ideas about it's origin, but what an awesome heirloom! It looks like it's in great condition, too.

Could it be a steeplechase saddle? That's the first thing that came to mind when you said "jockey for the queen" (huge Dick Francis fan, here!).

[thatmoody]

Yes, I believe it is a steeplechase saddle. It's in GREAT shape, and I am taking good care of it, as well. Harry babied it, and valued it for sure. He had a pretty storied career, from what I've heard - my trainer told me that they retired his colors when he stopped racing. He finished his life out in civil service, and ended up retiring to Florida, which is how I met him. He still attended the races regularly, and liked to place a little bet now and then - he usually won, too :).

[Alagirl]

Could the inscription read something like 'Sattelmacher' ?

[thatmoody]

Probably - that would be german for saddlemaker?

[MEP]

That doesn't look like a steeplechase (or any kind of racing or jumping) saddle - the pommel is too high and the flaps way too straight. I found a photo of a steeplechase jock at the 2009 Atlanta Steeplechase which gives an idea of a steeplechase saddle.

http://www.photosbysoto.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=15238

To me, it looks much more like an old-fashioned dressage or all purpose type saddle.

[thatmoody]

Yes, I did check with my trainer and this is not one of his racing saddles - it's his dressage saddle; even better :). I'm a total English newbie, so English saddle design is not my forte - I know what I ride in today but I am NOT a saddle historian. I like the way this one looks, but know nothing about saddle design.

Edit: Oh, and as to why I don't just ask my trainer about the saddle - she didn't grow up with her father and she doesn't really know that much about it, although she knows a lot more about saddles than I do. She can't do internet research at ALL, though :P.

[kerlin]

That looks a LOT like an old dressage saddle I have from the 1940s - very similar lines. Really the only difference is that mine does not have felt on the bottom.

Very, very cool. :)

[baylady7]

Wiesbaden is the name of a city in Germany (west)

[Hampton Bay]

The seat looks very similar to the older Passier saddles, so maybe it was modeled after them?

The felt panels are called serge panels. They are very very common with Australian saddles, and I have seen some Schlese saddles with them as well. You can fluff up the flocking in them easily with an awl or something. Stick it in, move it around to fluff up the flocking, and then move on to a different spot.

Very interesting saddle! It looks much much newer than 70 years old.

[whicker]

Now you get to see if it will fit your horse.

The serge is getting popular for endurance saddles because it is suppose to be more comfortable and flexible for the the horse's dynamic moving back. It also wicks the sweat, keeping the back cool and from overheating. A good saddler with some background should be able to re-flock it to fit as long as the tree will suit your horse. You don't want to ball up the flocking. The resulting lumps will cause pressure points. You may have a super saddle in your hands. Think of it as a Stradivarius violin.

[pintopiaffe]

No help on the mystery...

Just a "HOW COOL" drool. :cool:

[Janet]

When I started riding in the 60s, there were still saddles with felt/serge on the panels. But yours is on the WHOLE underside.

But from the top, yes, it looks like a typical non-jumping saddle.

[Alagirl]

Probably - that would be german for saddlemaker?


Indeed.

I did google for it togeter with Wiesbaden (city) and Schwalbacher, but all I got was a hit for the newspaper.

[thatmoody]

Well, I'm happy with my Verhan for riding (and for fitting my Friesian's rather prominent shoulders) so I'm not really planning on riding in it. Right now it's sitting on a beautiful wooden saddle rack that my husband built for my birthday in my office. I love it, though.

Thanks for the drools - it's a very special saddle and it looks like it's in VERY good condition. He must have taken very good care of it and I always do mine as well.

[Bluey]

I have seen saddles with that kind of underneath, not leather, but most were canvas, not felt.

It does look like an old dressage saddle and the lines and cut back could have been designed after the Passier ones.
Some parade military saddles also had that kind of long, straight flap, if I remember well.

Whatever it is, I would just display it, not use it.
That may even be a museum quality saddle.:)

[baylady7]

did you try googling "wiesbaden sattlerei"?