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nightmoves
Nov. 18, 2009, 10:58 AM
I'm starting to investigate carts a little more and was wondering about what measurements are the most important to determine size. I was told length of shaft is usually pretty close to blanket size give or take a little. The first cart I came across that I liked had a 68 inch shaft and my pony measures a 63" blanket so I figured it was going to be too long even if I could cut off an inch or so. The wheel on this particular cart was also a 40" and if I go by the chart at the American Driving Society it says 36" for a 12 hand pony and 39" for a 13 hand pony. My pony is 12.3 so I figured I would need something inbetween those two numbers. I may just order one to his measurements if I can't find something that will work. Seems easy to find small pony and large pony but a bit more difficult for ponies inbetween. I looked thru the archives but couldn't find much. I want somthing like this for Dressage, Cones and to show Pleasure driving http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/copperhorse/countryroadcart.jpg

China Doll
Nov. 18, 2009, 05:07 PM
I just measured my horse tip of the should to longest on the rump and she measured 63" but I am guessing a 72" blanket would fit her. I am probably getting 80" shafts
I would ignore the blanket theory and measure the length of the pony. Then you need room to spare so cart isn't too close. I was told ADS rules are the cart should be at a minimum 19.5" from horse but most go closer so the horse isn't so far away. Width is also important on shafts depending on how wide or narrow your pony

nightmoves
Nov. 18, 2009, 06:43 PM
His actual length would be 58" Using your method (length + 19.5") that would be 77.5" shaft and I know that isn't correct.

China Doll
Nov. 18, 2009, 08:03 PM
His actual length would be 58" Using your method (length + 19.5") that would be 77.5" shaft and I know that isn't correct.

I said most go closer as the 19.5 rule is too far. The used one you are looking at doesn't sound too long. Only 10" longer than pony which may be too short.

China Doll
Nov. 18, 2009, 08:11 PM
small pony 60"
large pony 65" sounds like what you need

nightmoves
Nov. 18, 2009, 08:31 PM
I said most go closer as the 19.5 rule is too far. The used one you are looking at doesn't sound too long. Only 10" longer than pony which may be too short. Yes, the used cart has 68" shafts. If you are saying the 68" may be too short how is the 65" going to work?

China Doll
Nov. 20, 2009, 09:42 AM
small pony 60"
large pony 65" sounds like what you need

This is just some general sizing I pulled off a website that sells shafts.
Making a general statement. If it were me I would hook it up and look at it.
As far as the wheels the shafts should be level when hitched.

nightmoves
Nov. 20, 2009, 12:00 PM
This is just some general sizing I pulled off a website that sells shafts.
Making a general statement. If it were me I would hook it up and look at it.
As far as the wheels the shafts should be level when hitched.

So how would you measure a horse to know if the particular wheel height is going to be correct or not if you can't have the horse there to try on the cart?

Nojacketrequired
Nov. 20, 2009, 01:47 PM
The shafts must be horizontal to the ground (or close to) when in the tugs.Therefore, you have to know where the harness tugs go on the horse, correctly, and measure from there to the ground. With that info, a carriage maker should be able to tell you what size wheels you need on their cart.
All carts are different, depending on their design. Easy entry may have shafts that attach to the cart lower, etc.

The length of the shafts is a different matter entirely, and I can't help with that except to say that I've been told you should have at least 10" clearance between the horse and the swingletree, and to never use the last opening in the traces.

Good luck!

NJR

China Doll
Nov. 21, 2009, 11:55 AM
I just ordered a new carriage yesterday and we are ordering it 13-15" longer than the horse. But a 4 wheel is at a lower angle than a 2 wheel so 2 wheel could be less distance

pricestory
Nov. 22, 2009, 08:16 AM
part of how far you want the carriage from the horse, is the way the horse travels and the build of the carriage. My pony wears a 69" blanket, my 2 wheel vehicle has 66" shafts. There is nothing under the vehicle for her to get her legs hitting so she could be pretty close. She is a little further away with the marathon vehicle because it is built lower.

nightmoves
Nov. 22, 2009, 08:43 AM
So if I was going to purchase a cheap easy entry cart to begin with would it be o.k. to purchase the Cob size which has 72" shafts because the pony size comes with 60" shafts that's going to put him too close. I plan on ordering another show cart to fit him in the spring.

Thomas_1
Nov. 22, 2009, 09:05 AM
I think the reason why you've struggled to draw response from the experienced drivers here is that your's is a question that can't be definitively or properly answered.

Also the vehicle you showed in the photo wouldn't really be suitable for dressage or cones. I can't actually see properly but it doesn't have a back step does it?? Also it's looking like it doesn't have a swingletree? Looks to me like a fixed trace attachment?? Is it??? What it definitely doesn't have though is any adjustments and as such it's a very basic exercise pleasure driving vehicle. Hence I'm thinking that those who know cones and dressage driving will be knowing that it's just not the right sort of vehicle.

How long the shafts are depends on what sort of carriage you're looking to buy.

For instance a horse driving trials cross country vehicle often has short shafts so the horse can move totally freely at the shoulder.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/classic_carriages/driving/Kateshorse.jpg

A private driving gig or trap would have different shafts totally:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/classic_carriages/driving/DSCF0040.jpg

There's all sorts and types in between those two photos I've exampled. I think you will understand from seeing the differences in shafts on the photos that this stuff about blanket size is just nonsense.

Then we turn to how far in front of the carriage the horse is. You've got some nonsense "advice" there too.

How far the horse is forward of the carriage again totally depends on the design of the carriage. Quite simply though the horse has to be far enough forward so that nothing interferes with his hind leg extension.

For a small pony the size you mentioned for a 2 wheeler gig type of carriage then you want to be looking at wheels between 28 and 33 inches.

39inches would be pretty huge.

pricestory
Nov. 22, 2009, 11:50 AM
I understand that Thomas may have a different perspective but the vehicle you show, a road cart, as made by County Carriages, and many others, is perfectly fine for pleasure shows, cones, dressage and low level CDE's. They are a great beginner to whatever vehicle, until you are doing Prelim CDE and want a 4 wheeler.
The 2 wheel, easy entry cart for anything over a mini, has problems. The wheel base is very narrow and it is not stable. The wheels are not strong enough to take the pressure on turns. Many shows do not allow them. Save your money and get a vehicle you can use for a while or forever.

nightmoves
Nov. 22, 2009, 12:06 PM
I want something I can do dressage, cones and show in the Welsh shows. I really don't like the looks of the easy entry carts at all even for just training. I did see that you could get steel wheels for them.

China Doll
Nov. 22, 2009, 03:30 PM
I want something I can do dressage, cones and show in the Welsh shows. I really don't like the looks of the easy entry carts at all even for just training. I did see that you could get steel wheels for them.

Not sure about the Welsh breed shows but the rule book will give you lots of info on what is allowed. ADS is what I am going to show in next year and there rules are totally different than my breed shows. I also thought your cart seemed suitable for that and they can be made to the standards required for CDE.