Bow legged jumper - your experience?

[AnnaCrew]

Have any of you had have a good jumper with bowed hind legs? Had they survived well (tendons and all that)?

I have now a bombproof children jumping horse, sweet and caring horse over the course and a real angel, but - bowed hind legs.

She also has cosmetic injury on her hock since yearling. But she does well 3-4 ft with beginners and had not been lame at all.

And now I would like to ask for your experience and knowledge - would it be OK to let her jump or she must have different career? She is born 2003.

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae135/lillydelully/13-11-09gamma/PICT8777.jpg

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae135/lillydelully/13-11-09gamma/PICT8793.jpg

This is about the worst how it goes
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae135/lillydelully/13-11-09gamma/PICT8798.jpg

A small video
http://www.youtube.com/user/barryz15#p/a/u/2/4ovkfr7bB6s

[Go Fish]

I'd have your farrier take a look to see how her foot is initially hitting the ground. It may be a balance issue - high or low on the in - or outside, depending on how the foot is landing. Shoeing might be in order. From what I can see in the photos of her walking away, I'd guess high on the outside, but it's hard to determine from the video. I'd like to see her walking and trotting away in a straight line.

I love this mare's low set hocks. Rare to see in a WB.

Haven't responded to your threads in a while, but just wanted to say that I'm impressed all to hell with what you guys have accomplished over the past year or so. Truly amazing! I love the telling of your experiences and the progress you've both made considering you started as novice owners and can now pass on words of advice to us all. Can you give us an update on Puika (sp?)? I'd like to hear how he's doing considering he's the one that started you both on this path to being crazy horseowners! :lol:

[LudgerFan]

Does this mare stand bow-legged, or just move that way? What I see is a mare with a VERY weak hind end. Very weak all over, actually. She is so light in her musculature that there is little stability of the stife joint, predisposing her to all sorts of lateral deviations due to pure weakness. I am betting she stands pretty straight, but her hocks rotate outward as her legs extend while she is in motion. This mare is a prime candidate for hill work, particularly galloping up steep hills if they are available to you. If not, then gymnastic gridwork is in order to build strength in her hind end.

She also looks like she might be protein deficient, making putting on muscle rather difficult.

[Go Fish]

Does this mare stand bow-legged, or just move that way? What I see is a mare with a VERY weak hind end. Very weak all over, actually. She is so light in her musculature that there is little stability of the stife joint, predisposing her to all sorts of lateral deviations due to pure weakness. I am betting she stands pretty straight, but her hocks rotate outward as her legs extend while she is in motion. This mare is a prime candidate for hill work, particularly galloping up steep hills if they are available to you. If not, then gymnastic gridwork is in order to build strength in her hind end.

She also looks like she might be protein deficient, making putting on muscle rather difficult.

I don't disagree with you, overall, but a weak hind end does not predispose a horse to travel this way. And if you look at the photo of her from the hind she IS balanced, to some degree. Her hind end might improve with weight and conditioning. She is light all over. My major issue with her hind end conformation is being light in the gaskin and somewhat parked out. Her stifle is not that bad. What do you mean by "instability in her stifle joint?" How can you judge that from the information provided? How do you come up with protein difficient? I see a horse that needs some groceries, but I couldn't judge that protein difficiency is the cause of her present condition.

Anna - I'm not trying to pick your mare apart. She looks like she could use some weight and conditioning which I'm sure you'll be on top of right away. I still stand by having her feet looked at. Traveling can certainly be a conformation issue, but foot balance issues usually is a huge contributor as well.

[AnnaCrew]

Thank you all!

She had not been a real neglect case, but owners are very short of cash now and that probably affected her overall condition in general.

She is very sweet, calm and gentle mare with humans, easy to ride, obedient and nice, and polite to other horses. No vices at all.

She had not been worked much last few months (children riding season is over here) so she is not in the jumping shape at all.

We took her home on Wednesday, so she had been in our home only 3 days now. And my current experience says that we shall get her back in shape until the spring, I do not worry about that - she is young and healthy in general.

She stands flat, hills too low by my opinion and hoofs need a good work for probably all winter until she will be back in shape. (here are few pictures of her hoofs, including a crack)
http://s965.photobucket.com/albums/ae135/lillydelully/13-11-09gamma/?start=60

But in general the question is - can a bow legged horse do jumping without real harm to the overall condition?

Let' s say - in theory. Actually I was looking for somebody here who had a horse with such confirmation fault and how it was going - is it really prone to more injuries, was it lame at 5, 10, 15 yo, what problems such a horse had over the jumps and so on.

Her back legs somehow rotates out at hocks and then back - and when you start walk her at the beginning, it is more noticeable than later, when she has warmed up. So far I had find out that her mother had even worse bow hind legs.

Here she is jumping if it helps (all riders except the first picture, are children, just starting to learn)
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae135/lillydelully/gear%20box/gamma2.jpg

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae135/lillydelully/gear%20box/gamma4.jpg

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae135/lillydelully/gear%20box/gamma6.jpg

Feel free to "take her apart", I'm learning from you - that's why I am here :) To learn as much as I can.

She also has high withers (I do not know exactly, but she is about the same height as Giva, so probably 17.1- 17.2 h), which made her not very suitable for the riding camp as children were not really careful dressing her up so she had several saddle rubs.

I'm asking these questions as I want to plan her future. I do not want to breed her - in her case such confirmation fault is inheritable. She can jump and does it with everybody - really easy ride, so she can make some young child really happy as a jumper for small shows, but it means 3-4ft jumps. Would it be OK for her?


PS. Puika is very happy and naughty as usual :) Today's "achievement" was to put his nose in girl's pocket and steal the glove :) He did not run away - he was asking for a game, to get the glove. It was great fun. It means that since we started with him, he from a quite dangerous horse has turned into funny clown, still naughty and I suspect that his problem still is that he does not realize how big and heavy he is towards humans, but e is very loving boy and enjoys every attention, treats, kisses and cuddles. And he is standing next to Daggy, his best mate, and on other side he has girls - currently e has a crush on gray mare in foal - they can stand for hours, licking and kissing.
He is much much better on lead - goes nicely in and out and had not had colicked a year now. I am sure that he is having a wonderful life now. Will take some pictures of him next week.

[Go Fish]

http://s965.photobucket.com/albums/ae135/lillydelully/13-11-09gamma/?start=60

You can definately see where she is high on the outside. This can contribute to the way she's traveling. Her overall conformation is probably a factor, but the question is which came first? The chicken or the egg? Proper trimming can help, as well as shoeing beind. Talk to your farrier about a trailer on the inside. This will help her put the inside of her foot down first and drag the foot straight for a split second, thus helping the tendency to bow out when the foot rocks to the outside (high side). If the foot is high on the outside, the horse places the high side down first, thus rocking to the outide.

"But in general the question is - can a bow legged horse do jumping without real harm to the overall condition?"

It's probably not ideal, but probably some low jumping won't kill her. I'd work on balancing the feet and improving her condition first. It may take several trims/shoeing before you see a difference and I'd keep up a regular schedule of farrier service - say every 5-6 weeks.

"Let' s say - in theory. Actually I was looking for somebody here who had a horse with such confirmation fault and how it was going - is it really prone to more injuries, was it lame at 5, 10, 15 yo, what problems such a horse had over the jumps and so on."

Hard to say. Again, low level stuff probably won't hurt, but addressing the hoof imbalance and improving her condition would be my priorities.

"Her back legs somehow rotates out at hocks and then back - and when you start walk her at the beginning, it is more noticeable than later, when she has warmed up. So far I had find out that her mother had even worse bow hind legs."

Exactly - this is caused by the hoof hitting the high side first, i.e., the outside.

"She also has high withers (I do not know exactly, but she is about the same height as Giva, so probably 17.1- 17.2 h), which made her not very suitable for the riding camp as children were not really careful dressing her up so she had several saddle rubs."

Saddle fit, saddle fit, saddle fit.

"I'm asking these questions as I want to plan her future. I do not want to breed her - in her case such confirmation fault is inheritable. She can jump and does it with everybody - really easy ride, so she can make some young child really happy as a jumper for small shows, but it means 3-4ft jumps. Would it be OK for her?"

Wouldn't move her up to this height until I did my best to correct her travel problems as best you can. I think you might be surprised at what you can accomplish.

She's six - young and probably not done developing body-wise. It's been my experience that WB mares gain height at a rather early age then spend years 5-6-7"bulking up." You might be surprised what she looks like in the spring.

Thanks for the update on Puika - the guy who got you guys into this "mess!" :D

[Horseforthecourse]

Anna,

I'm not going to comment on your horse because I can't really say much without actually seeing the horse and how it naturally goes. I'm also not a DVM.

My advice to you would be to consult a veterinarian (they will need to see the horse) if you have doubts about the horse's suitability for jumping or what path you should take next with the horse. You could also ask the vet if there was anything you could give the horse or any kind of conditioning exercises could help the problem and the overall health of the horse.

Best of luck.