Just wanted to point out this lovely photo

[Forte]

With all the controversy and bad feelings surrounding many of the topics on this board lately, I thought I'd try to post something positive. I just LOVE this photo Ashley Holzer and Pop Art. http://www.eurodressage.com/reports/shows/2009/nov_toronto.html
I really like how engaged his hind end looks, his front leg is very expressive as well. He looks so easy and soft in the bridle, poll at the highest point and face in front of the vertical without looking stiff or braced. Ashley's seat is just lovely as well, what a great team!

[Alagirl]

holy cow, this horse looks like he is enjoying himself!!! :eek:

Something you don't see all to often, very nice pair.

[esdressage]

They're also a lot of fun to watch "in motion" - Ashley smiles during her rides! They just seem to have a fabulous time together. I love, love love watching Pop Art's piaffes!!!!!

[Elegante E]

I saw her in LV and thought they were lovely. Her warmup was one of my favorite rides of the whole event.

[Ziutek]

She rides with Anky and practices Rollkur. This "horrible" practice apparently can create some beautiful rides as well. I saw her in LV and her piaffe-passage tour was absolutely breathtaking.

[Carol O]

Lovely photo.

[Elegante E]

She rides with Anky and practices Rollkur. This "horrible" practice apparently can create some beautiful rides as well. I saw her in LV and her piaffe-passage tour was absolutely breathtaking.

Well dang, now I hate it. LOL. Whether or not she uses RK, he horse still reaches out to the bit, for the most part. More than that, the horse wasn't a bundle of nervous energy which is what impresses me most.

[esdressage]

She rides with Anky and practices Rollkur. This "horrible" practice apparently can create some beautiful rides as well. I saw her in LV and her piaffe-passage tour was absolutely breathtaking.

Really? Have you seen her practicing rolkur?

Elegante E - did you see that in the beautiful warmup you mentioned?

Not saying it's untrue, Ziutek, just curious how you know that.

[Daydream Believer]

Did you notice that was Ziutek's first post ever? Sounds like a troll or an alter. I thought the ride was lovely. It's posted on Youtube.

[caddym]

I've never seen her ride in rollkur. I do know Sjef found the horse for her.

So, maybe Sjef and Anky aren't the antichrist's they are often portrayed to be:)

[Forte]

I don't know or even care who she trains with. She has shown Poppy in a harmonious, relaxed and correct manner at the highest levels of the sport for the last few years. Her performances at World Cup and the Olympics were a delight. Whatever she is doing at home is clearly working. If she trains with Anky, then clearly she is doing a good job with this pair.

[Hobbs]

She trains with Robert Dover.

[mbm]

I do know Sjef found the horse for her.

So, maybe Sjef and Anky aren't the antichrist's they are often portrayed to be:)

please explain how finding a horse for someone has any bearing on how people feel about SJ?

i honestly dont see the connection...

[Alagirl]

Are you guys paid for every time you bring Anky in to play?

Crammanitly, can't you have this lady who is riding a happy horse with a smile have her OWN moment in the limelight?!

Seriously.

[slc2]

I think the idea is that if she got the horse from them, if it had even stood in their barn, they would have had to already ruined the horse, and it couldn't possibly perform properly....except it is...OH NO....

First of all I'm not so sure every horse in Anky's barn is ridden any amount of time in an extreme position. Anky said Painted Black 'didn't need it', so he wasn't ridden that way. So you can't assume all her horses are hyperflexed. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't.

Secondly, if Robert served as an agent for the horse, or if Anky did, doesn't say anything about what training the horse had or didn't have. Maybe hyperflexed, maybe not.

Based on how many people use the method today, I'd guess 'most likely hyperflexed, at least during some part of its training'.

Robert Dover is in the business of selling horses to customers. There were years there when he took 150 or more of his students to Florida with him for the winter, most of them mounted on horses he had been the agent for.

He himself has not ever indicated he's against hyperflexing horses. He's written a lot of words on his web site about it, but never said he's against it and wouldn't buy/sell/agent for a horse trained that way. In fact, I'd consider what he said a very cagey reply to the debate, but some readers still picked on him for not clearly saying one way or the other whether he was a 'pro' or an 'anti'. I read it all very carefully, and found no statement that said, 'I would not serve as the agent for a horse that had its neck hyperflexed'.

Didn't see that. Not once. In fact, I think most of the trainer/coaches/agents have done so.

I'm going to guess here, of course, just being a lowly nobody outsider observer of that world, but I'd say any of the dressage coach/agents today, would be more than happy to make a 15% or more commission on a horse that sold for half a million dollars or one and a half or two times that, whether someone had flexed its neck or not.

[Elegante E]

When I saw her ride in LV, she did not use hyperflexion and the horse did not look to bite at his chest, ever.

[Sabine]

.

He himself has not ever indicated he's against hyperflexing horses. He's written a lot of words on his web site about it, but never said he's against it and wouldn't buy/sell/agent for a horse trained that way. In fact, I'd consider what he said a very cagey reply to the debate, but some readers still picked on him for not clearly saying one way or the other whether he was a 'pro' or an 'anti'. I read it all very carefully, and found no statement that said, 'I would not serve as the agent for a horse that had its neck hyperflexed'.

Didn't see that. Not once. In fact, I think most of the trainer/coaches/agents have done so.

I'm going to guess here, of course, just being a lowly nobody outsider observer of that world, but I'd say any of the dressage coach/agents today, would be more than happy to make a 15% or more commission on a horse that sold for half a million dollars or one and a half or two times that, whether someone had flexed its neck or not.

another really good post slick- you are growing on me...
I'll let you in on a secret: No top competitor will speak against RK. Why- because some horses do need it and it works wonders- it's like Yoga to the stiff horse...it's a turnaround method and in some cases it is truly the change agent.
Riding deep everyone does now- I hope at least...haha!
but - to stay serious I think that no matter where you are located- there is a strict and loyal commraderie in the top echelon that will not truly ever explain why and how and also will not ever accuse another member of using the dreaded RK...it's a big nono- and if you ride seriously you will naturally understand why...because you'll know when a horse benefits from it and you'll know when to use it and how...the word is out, Sjef has won= at least undercover...hehe!
AH looks very nice- although I'd like a little more sit...! so there...;)

[mbm]

hey sabine.... i think you are incorrect.... at least a little bit....

Debbie McDonald has spoken loud and clear - no holds barred - while STeffen also has said how he feels about it -

check out the link for dressage radio and listen up :)

dang! i did it! sorry folks. :( didnt mean to help derail this thread.

i will say tho that Ashly's ride was one of my faves from Vegas - it just made me happy :)

[Kyzteke]

I agree -- the horse looks relaxed & happy, as does the rider. I wish I could watch the video :(

So in this "near perfect" freestyle she gets a 75% and AVG gets 80-90% as a matter of course.

Apparently some judges are still having vision issues ;)

[Sabine]

hey sabine.... i think you are incorrect.... at least a little bit....

Debbie McDonald has spoken loud and clear - no holds barred - while STeffen also has said how he feels about it -

check out the link for dressage radio and listen up :)

dang! i did it! sorry folks. :( didnt mean to help derail this thread.

i will say tho that Ashly's ride was one of my faves from Vegas - it just made me happy :)

Hey Mary- I do listen up- and I do still see the majority of dressage in Europe...Debbie is wonderful but retired from competition and Steffen has not clearly said anything...;)!

[Kyzteke]

Steffen has not clearly said anything...;)!

Indeed he has -- very diplomatically, but he said it.

Listen to the radio broadcast...

snippets: "it looks rather rough,".... "(not sure) why you would have to use (this method)" and, after repeating again that it looks rough, said, "it's something I want to stay away from..."

Pretty clear, wouldn't you say?

[happyhorsegirl]

I saw the pair warm up at the Eqxiss(?) masters in Wellington last year and didn't see any hyperflexion. But I did see her during warmup occasionally stop and call for groom who would absolutely sprint over from wherever she happened to be (sometimes at the complete other end of warmup arena) and stuff a sugar cube in Poppy's mouth. It was amusing.

[Bronte]

Great job from Ashley. The consumate professional! Ashley is a highly accomplished trainer, she will pick what is right for her horses, without influence from others.:yes:

[KatherineC]

I really like how open he looks in the throat latch.