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selah
Nov. 10, 2009, 08:02 PM
I saw a very unusually marked deer in my pasture a couple of days ago, and managed to get (poor quality) pics of it at dusk last evening. I researched on the internet, and found they are referred to as "Piebald Deer". Pics here:
http://s2.webstarts.com/selahwayfarm/piebald_deer.html

These markings are apparently a recessive trait, and happen in one in one thousand. Few make it to adulthood, as the markings make them walking targets. Rumor is rampant about them...one friend told me the DNR urges them to be shot (phone call to our state DNR says this is NOT true). Other rumors state that they are genetically defective, have immune deficiencies, and dwarf-like deformities...and should be "culled". I could not find ANY genetic research that backs up these claims, nor could I find any pics on the internet of other than very normal, healthy-looking (prior to being shot, that is) colorful deer. I did find that albino deer are protected in some states, and that Native Americans thought them sacred:
http://www.orangecountyweb.org/legends.html

I was wondering, what would make these markings any different than those of a paint horse...or similarly marked cow, etc? Any thoughts?

Ajierene
Nov. 10, 2009, 08:16 PM
They are probably not different at all, genetically speaking.

This would be how the first paint horse came to be. The difference is, someone liked it, someone protected it and bred it.

The deer is not protected and the white on them do make them more easily seen by predators.

Cows with similar markings are also protected by man, hence their ability to continue as a breed.

harveyhorses
Nov. 10, 2009, 08:27 PM
We had one in my neighborhood for a couple of years, along with an albino. It was hit by a car:(
The albino, I don't know what happened to it, but it was always smaller than its peers, and seemed to have a sort of rash on her face. Then one day we did not see her any more.
(as long as I can keep them out of the garden they can hang in my yard all they like, no I take that back, highjacking slightly, I heard an odd noise in my outside last friday looked out to see Bambi and Bambette doing what deer do this time of year:eek: NOT IN MY BACKYARD!)
VERY cool pics, thanks!

Daydream Believer
Nov. 10, 2009, 09:14 PM
I remember seeing a piebald deer years ago as a kid in Pennsylvania (where I grew up.) She was quite striking and standing in a herd of brown deer.

MHM
Nov. 10, 2009, 09:22 PM
Cool pics! :cool:

I believe there is a herd of albino deer near me, but they're fenced in on a property that's not open to the public, so I've never seen them.

Rubyfree
Nov. 10, 2009, 09:33 PM
I've seen one once- a member of the herd (I'm assuming) that MHM mentioned.
There is a very large breeding population of white deer on the now closed Seneca Army Depot in Geneva, NY. It's not open to the public so the herd is somewhat protected, so long as they don't jump out. If I recall correctly, piebald is an incomplete expression of the gene that causes the white.

They are extremely cool looking. Here's some more info about the Army Depot herd-

http://www.senecawhitedeer.org/

MHM, if we are talking about the same herd- go drive by the depot any night around dusk. You cannot miss them. The place is crawling with them.

Sabovee
Nov. 10, 2009, 09:34 PM
My BIL's work in a deer processing shop, they had two albinos and a partial albino (which I think is a piebald) come in to be processed. Apparently hunters love getting these guys. All three were made into full mounts - which is very $$$.

There's a story somewhere on the net about a piebald buck that Cabelas paid the hunter $13,000 for the hide and head.

MHM
Nov. 10, 2009, 09:43 PM
They are extremely cool looking. Here's some more info about the Army Depot herd-

http://www.senecawhitedeer.org/

MHM, if we are talking about the same herd- go drive by the depot any night around dusk. You cannot miss them. The place is crawling with them.

Yes, that's the herd I meant. I'm on the other side of the lake, but one of these days, I'll have to go see them! :)

FalseImpression
Nov. 10, 2009, 09:45 PM
I thought you were referring to this sad story. Pinto/piebald and deer.


http://news.therecord.com/News/CanadaWorld/article/626369

MistyBlue
Nov. 10, 2009, 09:54 PM
CT has a semi-healthy population of white and pinto deer. Probably due to a couple pretty randy pinto bucks.
They're kiinda considered "pets" when they have white markings. Most of the hunters will not shoot them...but there are a few who want to bag only the marked ones. Probably due to them being easier to see, LOL!
The actor Rip Torn owns a large acreage farm here in CT and he has quite a few of the pinto deer on his property.

Calvincrowe
Nov. 10, 2009, 10:03 PM
We had a few in our neighborhood when I was in my early teens (about 25 years ago). There were probably 5 or so in a herd of 20 deer that hung around the area. So cool to see them stream by up the hill from our house, through the trees. Never got a picture, but pretty similar to the ones in the OPs post. No one hunted them, but I never saw them much more often as the county I lived in exploded in population:no:, wiping out most of the wildlife.

FatPalomino
Nov. 10, 2009, 10:48 PM
I JUST saw a decent size buck. He ran across the street and I had a great view of him. Looked very healthy. By the time I could pull over and grab my camera, he crossed back and ran into the woods.

He was all white, not an albino.

In the past few years, every once and a while, we spot one, and they always look healthy.

My friend has 2 living at her big farm. A buck and a doe :)

strawberry roan
Nov. 11, 2009, 06:09 AM
Your pictures were really good! We have spotted a nearly all white one in the woods around here. Saw it in a field one day--no camera but had the cell phone--really bad photos!! :)

Guin
Nov. 11, 2009, 06:45 AM
Neat! I had no idea there was such a thing as a pinto deer!

Bluey
Nov. 11, 2009, 07:01 AM
Many years ago, when this discussion came up, our game warden told us that pinto deer were a recessive that showed up in inbred herds most, otherwise was rare, as those deer were hunted by predators and humans easier.

We have never had one and our herds have not been that large or inbred, so maybe there is something to that?
Or maybe the deer in the East have a different set of genes.

The white ones, I don't know about those, we also have never had any of them here, that we know.

cloudyandcallie
Nov. 11, 2009, 08:12 AM
Oh wow, pinto deer! I've never heard of them, altho I've seen pictures of albino deer. Please do not let the color breeders know about this.:lol:

selah
Nov. 11, 2009, 08:34 AM
Oh wow, pinto deer! I've never heard of them, altho I've seen pictures of albino deer. Please do not let the color breeders know about this.:lol:

That's so funny...the color breeders are the first ones I thought about...and then when I kept seeing all the rumors posted on the net that somehow the hunters were doing the world a favor by "culling" them...well, that did not sound right either. I'm certainly not anti-hunting, but I hope to see this one for years to come.

LOVED the pics of the white deer herd in NY!

Hate the story about the woman's horses getting shot for deer. It's difficult to think of horses getting mistaken for deer...but every year the hunters are out there shooting each other as well...go figure:(

SmartAlex
Nov. 11, 2009, 09:10 AM
We have had some piebald and albino deer around here, but unfortunately I've never seen one (alive). A friend of ours who is an avid hunter said he saw a "palomino" or "dun" deer near his house in Depew, NY. It wasn't white or albino. It was as close as he could describe it a "palomino" And he breeds paints, so he knows his colors.

I've also seen emailed photos of twin albino black bear cubs and 20 years or so ago, we had an albino barn swallow. I did see that one!

CDE Driver
Nov. 11, 2009, 09:50 AM
There was a story in the news in Oregon a couple of years ago about a woman that had raised a mostly white deer. If I remember it had some brown ticking on it. I think it also had some sort of deformity. Anyway, the wildlife people confiscated it because she didn't have a permit. Any other Portland area people have a better recollection than I do?

fooler
Nov. 11, 2009, 11:15 AM
I've seen one once- a member of the herd (I'm assuming) that MHM mentioned.
There is a very large breeding population of white deer on the now closed Seneca Army Depot in Geneva, NY. It's not open to the public so the herd is somewhat protected, so long as they don't jump out. If I recall correctly, piebald is an incomplete expression of the gene that causes the white.

They are extremely cool looking. Here's some more info about the Army Depot herd-

http://www.senecawhitedeer.org/

MHM, if we are talking about the same herd- go drive by the depot any night around dusk. You cannot miss them. The place is crawling with them.

Our house guests this past weekend are from that area and mentioned the 'white' not albino deer at the old Seneca Army Depot. He confirmed it is due to a recessive white gene in a closed herd. That was the first I have heard of this.

lcw579
Nov. 11, 2009, 07:09 PM
We have a herd around here that has a mostly white buck and a few piebald deer. Of course, I always spot them when I am driving along a narrow road with no place to pull over and and there are cars behind me, so no pictures! :lol: They are really neat to see.

I almost crashed the car the first time I saw that white buck off in the woods - I couldn't believe my eyes!

DressageFancy
Nov. 11, 2009, 08:19 PM
Cumberland Island, GA occasionally has pie-bald deer. The park service says this is from inbreeding of the herd. The island deer are also smaller than the mainland deer.

TBMaggie
Nov. 11, 2009, 08:46 PM
Those pibald deer are really neat! I didn't know such a thing existed.
We have lots of albino or white deer here - I live in an area that's know as 'trophy buck' county in WI, and some of the albino deer are pretty huge. Hunters are not supposed to shoot them...but every year, a few get shot by 'accident.' (Don't know how that's possible, as the white deer are so white that they actually 'glow.'). I've known about the white deer for many years (40 plus yrs.), but have only seen one once personally. Pretty cool.

inquisitive
Nov. 12, 2009, 09:02 AM
Where are you located? We have been seeing two at my parents' farm the past couple of months!

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs111.snc3/15833_1246632800686_1075391436_30850345_6590061_n. jpg

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs111.snc3/15833_1246632840687_1075391436_30850346_749584_n.j pg

3mares
Nov. 12, 2009, 10:15 AM
love the pics you guys took! We have a piebald buck near us - I have only seen him a couple of times while riding, but the local hunters who use the land won't shoot him - they say he is off limits. Same with the three legged doe who has been around at least 3 years that I know of. We call her "Peg"

We drive by the Seneca Depot frequently and see the white deer up there - they can get out now as some of the fence has been removed, but seems they pretty much stay where they are. They do let hunters in there via lottery - not many allowed in and they need a special permit to take one of the white ones.There are a lot of brown ones there too.

bird4416
Nov. 12, 2009, 10:40 AM
When I was a kid at summer camp, someone found a piebald fawn with very crooked legs and took it to the DNR. The camp owners were wildlife rehabbers and took the fawn. One of the camper's father was an
orthopaedic surgeon and he fixed the little guys legs. He had casts on both fronts for a while. That was about the time I went back home so I'm not sure how it turned out but he sure was cute.

bdj
Nov. 12, 2009, 01:06 PM
We've got at least one white deer near our house (it appears to live near a local barn), too. I think it's lasted as long as it has because it seems to live close enough to that barn and the nearby residential area to be safe from most hunters. In our area, that's definitely the biggest danger to any odd colored deer - we don't have any predators large enough to be a real threat to a full grown whitetail.

We also have/had (I haven't seen it in a while) a white or albino squirrel in our yard! There's a small population of white squirrels in a town about 5 miles from home, but this is the only white squirrel we've seen in our area.

And then there was a resident Fallow deer (non-native species) who escaped from the pen of some folks I knew - her name was Amber, and she eventually went to live with a neighbor's herd of goats!

ponymom64
Nov. 12, 2009, 01:13 PM
CT has a semi-healthy population of white and pinto deer. Probably due to a couple pretty randy pinto bucks.
They're kiinda considered "pets" when they have white markings. Most of the hunters will not shoot them...but there are a few who want to bag only the marked ones. Probably due to them being easier to see, LOL!
The actor Rip Torn owns a large acreage farm here in CT and he has quite a few of the pinto deer on his property.

I was recently on the Merritt Parkway driving home from work and I saw a spotted deer standing by the side of the road. I had never seen one before. I do hope she made it home safely, she was awfully close to the road

Rubyfree
Nov. 12, 2009, 01:20 PM
We also have/had (I haven't seen it in a while) a white or albino squirrel in our yard! There's a small population of white squirrels in a town about 5 miles from home, but this is the only white squirrel we've seen in our area.


We had a white or albino squirrel around here for a while too. That startled me more running across the road in front of my car than the white deer do!
When I was younger, we had family in Olean NY, down by the PA border, and they had the most fascinating (to a six year old) variety of squirrel colors- black, white, red, 'dun'. I was very upset that we only got the standard gray at home near Rochester.

I was talking about this thread with my trainer this morning and she says that there was a small herd of piebalds that frequented the farm a few years back. It's so interesting that so many people have seen them, I thought they were much less common than it appears they are.

moonriverfarm
Nov. 12, 2009, 01:35 PM
What cool photos! For the life of me I cannot understand how anyone can shoot deer. Makes me sick to think about it. :sad:

talloaks
Nov. 12, 2009, 01:40 PM
We have a yearling male with large white spots on each side, not as much white as the ones in the photos. Last year as a fawn, I thought he was a male since he had excellent bone and conformation. We are so happy to see him from time to time with his little sprouts on the top of his head. This is the first time we have seen any with white in this area in over 30 years. We named him White Spot for the Canadian restaurant with super hamburgers!! No, don't want him made into hamburgers!! Eek!! Hope no one shoots him ever.

wateryglen
Nov. 14, 2009, 03:09 PM
When I boarded near Gilberts Corner I used to see them all the time. Most common are the white undersides/legs I think. Overo? or Tobiano or Tovero? I can never remember! Seen many all white or white w/brown heads! I have one in my pasture that's like an oreo cookie ie: brown front/back & white in middle! All are healthy but few make it thru dear season. Horses are confused & scared when they see them when they don't mind the regular ones. I think they occur more often than you think!

CowgirlDressage
Nov. 15, 2009, 10:39 AM
When I lived in WV the county I was in had a large number of piebald deer. One area was well known for it, and while visiting a friend's farm a small herd bounded through, sure enough, about 4 of them were piebald. They were beautiful.

I also saw piebald squirrel more than a couple of times in my 12 years living there. Also gorgeous animals.

Stacie
Nov. 15, 2009, 04:56 PM
This is the first time we have seen any with white in this area in over 30 years.
There was a piebald one off Rokeby Road near the Upperville Colt Show grounds (actually it's on the Mellon compound) last year. Not sure if it's still there but I would be surprised if it was hunted. We used to call it "The Goat" as in, "Hey the Goat's out tonight!" I understand that Fort Belvoir in Eastern Fairfax County has quite a population of them.

Triplicate
Nov. 15, 2009, 05:48 PM
There is a herd of strawberry roan deer in our local state park. When they travel outside the park and breed the offspring are often pink and tan spotted .
Last week a hunter got a huge buck on the farm and it had a beige roan head - I am sure that one will get mounted.

TWF
Nov. 15, 2009, 06:12 PM
Last spring a piebald showed up in my neighborhood in Rehoboth. He ran with a solid colored doe. We are next to a large preserve Henelopen State Park. The deer reguarly eat our hosta plants in the spring and jump into the canal behind my house. I find after the tourist leave the deer strolledright down the streets along the ocean. I took several pics of the piebald at dusk....where is my hard drive from that time!!!

My friend & famous photograher,, Kevin Fleming told me he took a few shots of the piebald too...http://www.wilddelaware.com/2008/02/

My favorite is this one Not sure this is a piebald but a wonderful shot ...http://www.flickr.com/photos/11051247@N08/3314040920/

Eventer55
Nov. 15, 2009, 06:31 PM
I was told by a restaurant owner that most of the deer raised for consumption are colored and not the usual fawn color.

I would imagine the ones that are piebald or off color are escapees from a farm. When you order venison in a restaurant you aren't actually eating a wild deer, but a farm raised and they come in all colors. Although some are the usual fawn color.

Just like pheasant, quail etc in a restaurant you are eating farm raised and not actual wild birds.


I found the following on a domestic deer web:

"A herd inventory and management plan can be used to see how many deer will be available for slaughter and when they can be harvested. Some farmer/ranchers focus on producing and selling live animals or bred does. These operations frequently build the majority of their business around developing outstanding blood lines for trophy-hunting operations. Producers with breeding stock operations usually focus on selling bred does sired by high-scoring-rack bucks and live immature bucks. They also sell deer and elk feed, urine and other products. Some also sell piebald and all-white (non-albino) deer for consumers interested in more exotic stock for personal pets, petting zoos and agritourism operations."

hauntedoblivion
Nov. 16, 2009, 12:16 AM
There is a large herd of deer that live in the woods down the street from where my horse is boarded. One of the deer is white, though I think it may have a few small brown spots on its back. It's also slightly deformed. A few of its legs look crooked and it's kind of gimpy. Fortunately, only a few people are allowed to hunt on this land and they don't bother this particular deer. All of the others are normal.

I've tried to get pics of it, but I've only seen it out close to dusk and its always been too far away to get a pic with my cell. I always forget to bring my camera with me.