Speak to me of Numero Uno! :D

[00Jumper]

EDIT 12/8: With the passing of Rampal, I have decided to choose another stallion (limited supply makes me nervous). I am now wondering about Numero Uno - see post 22.

Hey all! I have lurked a long time on this forum, but never really posted. I am thinking of breeding my mare this spring and I am wondering what you all would breed her to. She is a dynamite jumper and a very lovely little girl besides, but I am going into an intense 1.5 year program to get my BSN and will not be able to ride very much. I have always considered breeding her, so as far as timing goes, it seems pretty perfect to breed her this spring.

The mare is reg. KWPN, 9 y.o., by Wolfgang out of a Concorde mare. She's only 15.2hh but both of her parents were 16.1. I've had her since she was 4 and she is really a great horse - I showed her in the AA hunters for a year or so but then switched to the AA jumpers. She's certainly capable of doing the Low AO jumpers, but a) I am a wuss :D and b) since starting college I have not been able to dedicate the time to riding that would allow me to make the push from the 3'6" to the 4'. Some weeks I can ride every day, some weeks I have 5 exams and am lucky if I see the outside of a textbook, you know how it goes. :lol:

I came to this forum to get an opinion from the breeding gurus - what do you think of that cross? Is there another stallion you would choose for my mare? Who?? I would like to be able to register the foal KWPN, so that narrows the field a lot, but I would be okay with KWPN Reg. A. I would obviously like a good temperament that would be pretty suitable to an amateur. The only thing about my mare I would improve on, really, is a little less stubbornness (there are a couple things out there that once she makes up her mind about them, game over :lol:), and a little more height (not crucial, I am a short person).

Thanks for reading, here are some pictures of the mare if you're interested:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=38958538&l=1d88ec7145&id=11324903 (best recent conformation shot I have, sorry)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/plottwist13/Lola/Lola_swanlake_8-08.jpg (forgive the watermark - I did actually purchase this picture, I just never scanned the unmarked version)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/plottwist13/Lola/Saugerties0707MS.jpg

Her pedigree:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/tsunami+m

[Perfect Pony]

Your mare is adorable and that stallion is lovely. I'm not one to give any advice at all beause I am in the same boat as you, all I will say is that the stallion owners are typically very nice and helpful. I notice he's at Iron Spring Farm, I bet they would be happy to spend some time talking to you and advising you on their stallions.

Have fun, I am sure you will have a wonderful foal. Love your mare, I too have a tiny bay mare with a big personality.

[Valentina_32926]

I also own a Wolfgang mare - but her damsire is Voltaire. Believe it or not she is a Third level (showing) PSG (schooling) mare.

Regardless - a friend told me the Wolfgang Flemmingh crosses are a GREAT niche - Flemmingh is also jumper bred but throws fantastic movement with AA temperment and nice long legs to boot.

It would have to be frozen but the Europeans like that niche quite a bit.

Gotta love the Wolfgang neck and uphill movement! (My mare also likes to jump - but I don't :D).

Post pictures of the baby when it's born!

[EquineLVR]

I ride a rampal son - he is one of the best jumpers I have ever ridden but he is quirky and hot.. he did come from a TB mare.. but Ramiro line horses can have some spice.

What about Cavalier? http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/cavalier18

Way underused IMO... and wonderful sire of jumpers with excellent temperments..

[Majestic Gaits]

Flemmingh frozen has run out and no more since he has passed. :-(

Do you want to use fresh or frozen. For a first time breeding fresh is easier of course. I would suggest Navarone (Jus de Pomme x Armstrong). He is producing incredible jumpers and all around horses for anyone to ride. Impeccable characters that really want to work hard for you. Really is a strong trait in his foals. Very easy to break and train, and very well balanced. Navarone goes very well with the Wolfgang and Concorde lines. Plus there is a breeding special for him for bookings this month. $200 off.

For frozen I would suggest Corland. Super characters and fantastic jumpers. Many go to Grand Prix but good for anyone.

Another nice one that puts on really nice characters is Tenerife. They are such nice horses to work with. I have had several and they are super amateur horses and of course lots of talent for the jumps.

Kathy

[sfstable]

I have a Calvados mare out of a Wolfgang mare that I purchased from Team Nijhof as a 3 year old. Interesting is that I bred her to Concorde before importing her from Holland (on the advice of Jeanette from Team Nijhof). My Concorde/Calvados/Wolgang filly is very nice.

You might try and see if Team Nijhof (www.team-nijhof.nl) has any frozen still left from Calvados. The cross with your mare would be very nice. He is approved with KWPN.

This is my Calvados/Wolfgang/Ulft mare freejumping the other day. My girls were playing around with her and video taped her. The standard height is 5 feet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puH24S2K5wI Obviously, she is my 22 year old's next jumper.

[TKR]

I'm sure Iron Spring can give good advice. The only Rampal I knew was quirky to dangerous, although very talented and huge. I've had some other feedback from folks who had Rampals with the same comments. Bred to the right mare, I'm sure he is wonderful.
PennyG

[00Jumper]

Thanks to those of you who have replied already. Some of the comments about Rampal worry me - my mare is not hot by any stretch of any definition (most days you'll find me dragging her in from the field to ride; once in the barn, she promptly falls asleep. Then we meander out to the arena, etc. :lol:) and a little more blood would certainly not be something I'm totally uninterested in, but it's the 'quirky' that gets me. She is not bad, but she is very quirky sometimes. Perhaps Rampal is not a good cross in that case? I had heard that about Ramiro lines, but I hadn't ever really seen it in the Rampal babies I've known (though I've certainly seen it in other Ramiros!).

So perhaps I should open the field a little more - if YOU had my mare, who the heck would you breed her to?! I would prefer fresh but all I can seem to find is frozen - is there even any KWPN stallion that could ship to DE fresh?

[FMulder]

Speak to Judy Yancey about Kannan, he fits the bill for everything you're asking. There's video of him at www.frenchstallions.org

He's a lovely guy, I ride him a couple of times a week in the woods and his kids tend to be super nice temperaments and great for amateurs to pros.

[TKR]

Kathy at Majestic Gaits is probably as knowledgable as anyone in the US about the Dutch horses. Her stallion, Navarone would probably work well for you and she might have other suggestions as well. Good luck!
PennyG

[JER]

Olivier (http://www.imajica.net/gallery2.html).

Olivier is KWPN, 17hh, does GP dressage and has a terrific jump (see the video). He was trained by a YR (who posts here) and his offspring have very ammy-friendly temperaments -- a number of them have been trained/started by ammies and teens.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I LOVE Olivier! http://www.imajica.net/olivier.html

[ne1]

you haven't said what needs improving on your mare, which is critical to know in attempting to select a stallion. often the height of small mares is one of the hardest things to counter even with the biggest stallions. while there are exceptions, when you get a stubborn small gene in there it can take generations of breeding to large stallions before you're back at the size you want.

she is smaller than the standard 16.2h which many breeders aim for, and certainly many smaller horses are at a disadvantage getting down the lines in the hunter ring without looking like they're stretching hard.

she is attractive and looks attentive to her work and also athletic.

if i were looking to make a slightly bigger offspring to do 4' jumpers but also 3'6 hunters i would be considering the stallion cunningham carefully.

[xsalute]

I've known two Rampal mare, although quite athletic they were very unrideable.

[Horsecrazy27]

I like Navarone too... never met him in person, but seems to have a lovely mind.

[About Time]

I started a Rampal over fences. I wouldn't say he is all that hot but I would say I think he would be better suited to do dressage. He jumps okay and has his knees up but he throws his lower leg out in front of him over fences. I don't know how he'd make out as a jumper but as a hunter, its not appealing. He does have the most comfortable canter I think I've ever sat. I would also consider Consul. I know several Consul's and they are fun, quiet, talented over fences for sure, and move well too. Only drawback to them is I'd say that he will tend to give the foal a sizeable head. If your mare has a smallish head, I think it's be fine. Good luck!

[stoicfish]

Judgement. That would be really cool.

[JMurray]

I have a 2 yr old Rampal gelding out of a Thb who is not hot. the dam is very quiet and not hot and is 15.2. My guy will be about 16.1 - 2. Free jumping he is quite good with his knees and back. Nothing quirky about my guy at all and is a real pocket pet.

[Centuree]

Speak to Judy Yancey about Kannan, he fits the bill for everything you're asking. There's video of him at www.frenchstallions.org

He's a lovely guy, I ride him a couple of times a week in the woods and his kids tend to be super nice temperaments and great for amateurs to pros.

I'm going to second you take a look at Kannan. He's a tall rangey stallion that is cited as specifically suited for smaller or medium mares that lack size, scope and power. His offspring express so much scope, just take a look at the recent posting about the P.S.I. auction, and now look at the Kannan offspring: http://www.psi-auktion.de/en/psi-auction/psi-catalogue-2009/showjumping-horses-2009/

[00Jumper]

Thanks again guys for replying. I spoke with Meghan at ISF and while she favored Judgement I am hesitant on the closeness of the cross, as am I with Kannan. In light of Rampal's recent passing, I am reconsidering my choice. I have a maiden mare, and he's a limited supply of frozen semen now and, well . . . I don't like those odds. So the stallion hunt beings anew. :rolleyes::lol:

As far as what I am looking to improve on my mare, I would like a little more height (not huge - 16.2 horses are plenty big for me!), a better topline (she has a little bit of a roach back but nothing absolutely terrible - I didn't really ever even notice it much until the KWPN mentioned the slight roach at her inspection), better hocks and a little more forward. She has plenty of jump and scope, but I suppose those things wouldn't go amiss in a stallion ;). I'd like to use fresh semen if possible (the mare is in DE) and, again, a KWPN stallion would be preferable, but I would be willing to go with a stallion that would get me a Reg. A-eligible baby.

I have gotten some great suggestions on this thread, and have started seriously considering two of them, but keep 'em coming! The more the merrier, imho. :lol:

[STF]

http://www.a-1performancesires.com/Dutch/wilton.asp


;)

[00Jumper]

Thanks you all for all the replies! It was all very helpful in getting me head straight and helping me look at a LOT of nice stallions. I kind of got a good feel for what I like to see, what I don't like to see, etc.

I have a short list assembled (hopefully for good) but I don't know much about one of them: Numero Uno. What do you guys know about him? He seems to have a very nice collection of offspring, but how are they to handle? Or to ride? Please let me know! :D

[peskee]

Numero Uno is absolutely incredible.

[buschkn]

I have a superb coming 3yo by Numero Uno who is perfectly conformed, sweet, huge, and very athletic. I have no complaints

[Oakstable]

If you want fresh and a son of Libero H, take a look at Ikoon in BC.

I have a yearling by him out of my B. Rolando mare, and she is adorable and sweet.

She inherited his massive forelock and mane.

Actually she looks like an Arabian -- two crosses to the Shagya Ramzes though far back in the pedigree.

There is a photo of Duesi in my blog. Maybe in the month of August?

[ne1]

there's been some less than reliable information in this thread.

ramiro can sit in a pedigree multiple times and has no reputation for making 'hot'. where it has occurred it can reasonably safely be attriubuted to the dam. typically he brings scope, type and disposition.

there is no cause for concern with the closeness of judgement's pedigree (although he would not be my choice), but i agree kannan brings in a lot of linebreeding which may be a slight risk, or could even prove beneficial. however, one of the most frequent problems of linebreeding when it occurs (and folks need to study pedigrees and figure out exactly where and with what horses it occurs, because it is not equal to all) is that it will make the offspring typically smaller.

numero uno is a holsteiner i believe bred in holland but also now approved in holstein, and has been described as the most significant son of libero, who some regard as the most significant son of landgraf. to have a good mare from either of these stallions is a very good thing for a serious jumper breeding program, and i wish i had one!

apart from my earlier suggestion of cunningham, which would probably still be the direction i would go, the other young stallion with a great type and disposition as well as size (from his cantus / ladykiller mother) that i would consider for your mare is rolling roc. rr is a holsteiner approved on this year's tour with a unique blending of jumper blood relative to anything else on this continent.

[BBowen]

An acquaintance of mine has a gorgeous gelding by Numero Uno. He is a big boy, 17h +, and has done very well in the hunter derbys this year. His show name is Trust Me. He has been shown by a pro and his ammie owner.

[bloomingtonfarm]

[QUOTE=00Jumper;4524850]
As far as what I am looking to improve on my mare, I would like a little more height (not huge - 16.2 horses are plenty big for me!), a better topline (she has a little bit of a roach back but nothing absolutely terrible - I didn't really ever even notice it much until the KWPN mentioned the slight roach at her inspection), better hocks and a little more forward. She has plenty of jump and scope, but I suppose those things wouldn't go amiss in a stallion ;).QUOTE]

I like your mare and I think it would make a wonderful match with Numero Uno.

I love love love Numero Uno. I was hoping this thread would bring some information on the quality of his semen.

Are you sure it’s not her loins that are roach instead of her back? Anyway you wouldn't have to worry with Numero Uno as his back and his loins are not roach at all. Wolfgang loins were very roach.

Numero Uno would add some height and you certainly have to expect a nice long neck and a LOT of jumping talent. He has good conformation except for his sickle hocks but obviously this is not the problem of your mare so I wouldn't worry.

[00Jumper]

Wow, thank you all so much for the replies! It sounds like I have a first choice!


I love love love Numero Uno. I was hoping this thread would bring some information on the quality of his semen.

That's a good point - does he have high quality semen? The mare is maiden, and I would have to go with frozen if I went with this stallion, which I am told is a little patchy in and of itself (although I was also told that frozen should be fine since I have a younger mare - any insight to shed on this?), so I'd love to hear about semen quality for this guy. Since he has so many babies I'd assume it's good, but you never know.

As far as the roach, I would probably describe it more as her loins than her back, but I do not have her grade sheet from her keuring right here with me. But I've always thought her back was fine - it's just this small bump in her topline above her stifle. Either way, I have been told my numerous people that as long as the stallion doesn't have a similar issue, there should be no problems there with the foal. :)

[mikali]

I believe that Numero Uno's semen quality is just fine. Tracy Holmgren (Longwood Stables) is the representative for the de Wiemselbach semen here in Canada and she has had three Numero Uno foals using the frozen semen.

As for using frozen on a young maiden mare, I think it shouldn't be a huge problem with a healthy mare and a knowledgeable vet. I bred my 6yo maiden mare this year with frozen to Wittinger VDL - she caught on the first try.

[baywithchrome2]

I believe that Numero Uno's semen quality is just fine. Tracy Holmgren (Longwood Stables) is the representative for the de Wiemselbach semen here in Canada and she has had three Numero Uno foals using the frozen semen.



I've always liked this stallion, but I've heard sketchy things about his frozen semen, even direct from vets who've worked with it. Definitely would research the number of confirmed pregnancies with whomever you are purchasing it from. Please let us know what you find out about his semen :yes: Good luck!