Ultium vs. Progressive

[zakkandtoto]

After months of throwing out nearly half of my gelding's TC Senior (along with his supplements - including his isoxsuprine) each day, I've decided to switch him to something that he'll eat.

I bought a bag of Ultium last week, have been mixing it with his TC Senior, and he is finishing it up(!!!), but I tend not to trust Purina's ingredients. The benefit of feeding the Ultium is that I can get it delivered to the barn every week.

On the other hand, I've heard a lot of people speak highly of Progressive and a woman at the barn feeds it to her horses. They look good. Problem is I'd have a 30 mile drive (each way) once a month to pick it up.

Up until a week ago, he was "eating":

7lbs Triple Crown Senior (he was probably eating 5lbs of what's given on a good day)
6oz Cocosoya*
Coastal hay (free choice - he usually eats around 12lbs/day)
6lbs Alfalfa*
10g Smart Energy
.12oz Vita B-1
.5oz Nu-Foot
.5oz MSM

*Adding the Cocosoya was the only way I could get him to eat any of the TC Senior. I added the alfalfa because he was getting ribby from not eating his grain. He won't eat enough coastal to maintain weight on TC Senior. I'd prefer to get him off the alfalfa.


Ultium Diet

6lbs Ultium
Coastal hay (free choice)
10g Smart Energy
.12oz Vita B-1
.5oz Nu-Foot
.5oz MSM

Progressive Diet

1.5lbs ProAd Grass
1.5lbs Envision
1.5lbs Crimped Oats
Coastal hay (free choice)
10g Smart Energy
.12oz Vita B-1
.5oz Nu-Foot
.5oz MSM


Feedxl is telling me that that the Progressive and Ultium diets are nearly identical as far as calories and nutrients go. The straight cost will differ only $14/month (Progressive being higher).

Would feeding the Progressive be worth the trouble in getting it? Or should I just leave him on the Ultium?

He's an 11yo Appendix - 1100lb hard keeper - finicky eater - turned out 6hrs a day. Not in work.

Any advice would be appreciated. He's driving me insane.

[suzyq]

My guy quit eating TC Senior so I went to TC Complete and he loves that. Yours is the first other horse I've heard of who doesn't like the senior, I just thought my horse was wierd :) He didn't do well on Ultium (made him too hot) but I know lots of people who feed Ultium and love it.

[smay]

I have two out of my four horses that eat Ultium and they both seem to like it enough to gobble it right up - one is TB, the other Arab. It doesn't seem to make my TB "hot" any more than anything else he has eaten. The high-fat ingredient in Ultium can be purchased separately as "Amplify," in 30-lb buckets, and can be a convenient way to give them that 30% fat additive, if you don't want the rest of the stuff in Ultium.

[LarkspurCO]

Progressive is great but I have one horse that does very well on Ultium. It's the only feed I've found that works and that he really likes (he hated TC senior).

Until recently I was top-dressing his Ultium with 1 lb. of Progressive ration balancer for a protein supplement, because my grass hay is very low protein and it was the only way to keep the weight on him.

Two months ago I started him on an orchard-alfalfa mix hay. He has put on weight and muscle, I've dropped the Progressive and cut the Ultium almost in half -- from 7 lbs. down to about 4. So, I'm questioning why you want to drop the alfalfa -- is he not tolerating it?

[Melelio]

I'm rehabbing a 300 lb. underweight senior Arabian mare on Ultium. I started her on Strategy, then bumped her up after I felt confident she wasn't going to colic on feed.

I'm not a big fan of Purina but like the content of this, mostly the 12% fat and beet pulp base, and she Miss Picky, likes it, too. I think I'm on my last bag of it for her, though, as she's just about a horse again, and I feel she is getting a bit of 'tude on this stuff. But the weight is there. Haven't run into any other issues with Ultium, however. We're in 5-6 bags now.

I'll drop her down to something in the TC line, since the other horses are eating Lite.

[zakkandtoto]

Thanks so much for the replies.


SuzyQ - You're so lucky yours will eat the Complete, that was the first feed I tried on him when I bought him. Unfortunately he refused to eat it. That's why I switched to the Senior.

Smay - Have you had any colic issues with it? I've noticed that since I began mixing it with his Senior, his manure is heavier and drier. That's really my main concern.

Larkspur - I'm glad you've got one that's doing well on it, too. And I wish I had an alternative hay, because he's not a fan of coastal, but here my choices are coastal and alfalfa. The problems I have with the alfalfa are:

1) It's giving him way more protein than he needs and it tends to make him a little spooky.

2) I worry that he'll get enteroliths.

3) The weekend feeders aren't the best and, for example, on Sunday they threw him over 10lbs of alfalfa. He didn't eat the coastal (nothing like seeing 15lbs of hay stomped, peed, and pooped on) and his stall absolutely reeked. I wanted to cry.

4) It's $16.50/bale and it sometimes comes in moldy.

In truth, no matter what grain I go with, I'll probably keep him on 3oz of Cocosoya (1oz at each feeding), just because he loves it so much and 1 thin flake of alfalfa/day to help buffer his stomach.

Melelio - How's the quality of her manure?

edited to add: I just checked and I actually could keep him on a mix of TC Senior and Ultium (1lb of each @ each feeding), since he'll eat the TC Senior as long as the Ultium's mixed with it.

[Melelio]

I don't think protein has anything to do with hot tempers. I think that's been disproven but I could be wrong. And Ultium is only 12% anyhow.

Mare is on grass full time, and is apparently eating a ton of it, so her manure is soft, grassy mushy. I attribute that to mostly the grass.

[zakkandtoto]

Melelio, I do realize that experts say protein doesn't make them hot, but for some reason, my guy does get hyper alert on alfalfa. On Sunday, after his alfalfa binge, he was nearly levitating out of his stall. I dreaded going in with him to clean it. He just couldn't hold still.

Last week, a chicken flew overhead as I was leading him to the washracks and he spooked so badly he almost pinned me to the opposite aisle wall.

Last month, he was being ridden by a trainer in the covered arena. A three year old girl ran down the driveway about 20 feet away. He spooked and bolted halfway across the ring.

This was a lazy horse. This was a horse that used to ground tie. I don't trust him like I used to.

I don't know if it's the additional calories or if it's the protein itself, but I know he was a much calmer horse before I added alfalfa to his diet.

[smay]

Hmmm, my TB is a world-reknowned nutcase, but Ultium doesn't make him any worse than his usual... He also gets an alfalfa/orchard grass hay almost free choice and he stays about the same on that too. We've gone through several feed changes in the 10 years I've owned him, and I believe he's about the same attitude, no matter what he eats. He has never colicked, aside from an occasional very mild gassiness he gets after long turnout - maybe three times in 10 years. Manure hasn't changed on Ultium that I can see. I'm pretty happy with it and my TB is FAT right now so that's a bonus going into winter.

[FSPBeth]

Have you check this horse for the possibility of gastric ulcers? Being flighty, having strange poops, and not eating can be some of the classic signs. Just a thought. My horse (ottb) is much bettered tempered after ulcer treatment, and he gets alfalfa pellets, and to my surprise, he is a dream to be around (was a nuttball before ulcer tx) and he is eating better than before.

Good luck and keep us updated!