I saw the makings of a wreck today.

[Yip]

Our trainer invited her students and some local drivers to a drive-in for a drive and lunch.

All was well until one couple was getting ready to unhitch - and took the bridle off before the cart. The horse saw the cart, I guess and walked off a couple steps. When the *monster* chased him, he bolted several strides, but then stopped. His owner was holding the halter (big horse) and went with him. The leadrope was tied to the trailer, so I guess he must not have been tied when they took his bridle off.

There were a bunch of people and a few tied horses there amidst the trailers, but the horse looked like he was ready to head for the open pasture. Many mistakes, but thankfully, no one was hurt.

I didn't see everyone unhitch, but the ones I saw, none of them tied the horse to the trailer. They had one person unhitching and unharnessing while the other person headed the horse. Is this typical? I would think it would have to be safest to tie the horse rather than have a header. Especially when there were several horses tied in the same area and other people walking around. If I am wrong, please explain the logic behind not tying the horses.

Yip

[SmokenMirrors]

Yip...when we go for a pleasure drive or when were at a show, when I come back to the trailer my husband heads the horses and I unhitch BEFORE taking off bridles. At many shows we go to, if your caught doing what you saw, you could be disqualified or asked to leave, it is a safety hazard.

As for why I don't tie them up before taking off the wagon or cart, honestly, never really thought about why we don't do it, just how we do things and always have. Once the cart or wagon is off them, then we tie them to the trailer. I guess it would be because it is easier to maneuver the team or a single animal back to the trailer with nothing hitched to them, as were often right next to a friend with several animals themselves or someone else who has things going on.

Hope this helps....

[Thomas_1]

Tried and tested safe practice is NOT to tie the driving horse up.

One person should head the horse and the other person should quickly and efficiently remove the carriage FIRST and move it back from the horse so the horse can't step back and break the shafts or do himself damage.

THEN you take the harness off.

If the horse isn't being driven with a driving slip headcollar under it's bridle then you put the headcollar on and fasten on a leadrope before you take the carriage away. Then after it's away, you take the bridle off first and then remove the rest of the harness.

Makes no difference whether you've a single horse, a pair or a team.

That's the only safe way to do it.

[goodhors]

Recommended ADS and CAA method is to have a header with a LEAD ROPE attached to horse head, while vehicle is being hitched or unhitched. Lead can be on the bit, noseband, halter over bridle to give Header control of that horse. We find noseband, cavesson to be the most useful place to put the lead rope clip for control. Header has much better control with a lead rope than trying to do things with the reins.

If you attend things alone, you may want to hitch while horse is tied to the trailer. With horse in the often BUSY trailer area of show, hitching without being tied might be distracting to the normally, well-behaved animal that stands well. Safer then, to hitch to a tied up horse. They make a noseband buckle halter/headcollar, that will go over a driving bridle and come off easily even with reins attached to the bit.

Then there are the horses who do not KNOW HOW to tie well, have NEVER stayed tied, hard and fast, to anything because owners do not expect it. They always have horses tied with breakable strings, breakable halters or quick release snaps, cheap leads that break with any pull, to prevent any damage to the horse who does not wish to stay in place when tied. These kind of horses need a header to hitch, or the driver needs to be holding the lead rope as they hitch alone.

Safe is best, tied or held, at shows, activities away from home. I don't care how WELL they stand alone at home, no lead rope to hold or tie the equine with, is plain dangerous.

Bridle NEVER comes off the horse before he is unhitched from a vehicle!! You were DARN lucky they even had the rope around his neck. TIME after time, a wreck is preceded by removing the bridle first, before unhitching the horse.

No head control with bridle, means you have removed ALL method of controlling the equine with his vehicle still attached.

[Thomas_1]

I maybe didn't make it clear when I said about having a header earlier. I didn't mean header instead of a leadrope or head collar.

Nowadays I always drive with a slip headcollar on underneath the driving bridle.

When the horse is brought back in the person who heads it just clips the leadrope on the front and then the driver quickly gets on with taking the carriage off.

When I was competing then the last thing to come off when I went to drive was the headcollar and it was the first thing to go back on when the horse came back. The lead rope was then clipped to it before the driver dismounted.

We tend to just leave the leadrope hanging down where it can quickly be got hold of but I do have one member of staff who tends to just place it over her shoulder. (not a method I would necessarily teach folks though)

[Yip]

You were DARN lucky they even had the rope around his neck.

She didn't have the rope around the horse's neck. The bridle was off, halter on - and the leadrope was still tied to the trailer , end hanging loose. NOT on the horse at all. She wentt with the huge horse till it stopped, holding the halter alone, and the horse was still hitched.

I was wondering at what point she'd have to decide to let go or get hurt, but it worked out OK.

[Cartfall]

If a horse decides to leave, a header isn;t going to stop him. A rope tied to a trailer or hitching rail, just might.

My opinion. Having been in a bad bad accident when we used aheader at a show, with the header, the horse climbed over a car and tapped danced on the header;s head.

No thank you.

Tie him.

[Renae]

Just as I would never get on or off a riding horse while it was tied I would never hook or unhook a driving horse while it was tied. To me the danger of a horse panicing while tied and rearing and flipping over is far too great.

I use a header for hooking/unhooking, and if a situation warrants the driver keeps the lines in hand ready to go while assistants do all of the hooking/unhooking and the driver, header and assistants are all in agreement that if the horse needs to it will be allowed to move forward and steered in a large circle to the left (typically something I only have to do when starting colts or reschooling horses that other people have scared).

[Fancy That]

Just as I would never get on or off a riding horse while it was tied I would never hook or unhook a driving horse while it was tied. To me the danger of a horse panicing while tied and rearing and flipping over is far too great.

I use a header for hooking/unhooking, and if a situation warrants the driver keeps the lines in hand ready to go while assistants do all of the hooking/unhooking and the driver, header and assistants are all in agreement that if the horse needs to it will be allowed to move forward and steered in a large circle to the left (typically something I only have to do when starting colts or reschooling horses that other people have scared).

I agree. I think it's far safer to be holding a horse, rather than tie it hard and fast onto a trailer or post or ???

Not sure why one would think a person has less control of a horse if it decides to move it's feet....versus a "trailer or post"

I think it's MUCH safer and I couldn't fathom doing anything slightly risky, with a horse tied hard and fast.

[goodhors]

I agree. I think it's far safer to be holding a horse, rather than tie it hard and fast onto a trailer or post or ???

Not sure why one would think a person has less control of a horse if it decides to move it's feet....versus a "trailer or post"

I think it's MUCH safer and I couldn't fathom doing anything slightly risky, with a horse tied hard and fast.

Well, thinking you can HOLD even a small horse who wishes to leave, with reins or lead rope, is dangerous thinking to me. Yes, you might be able to redirect a held horse a little, but you WILL lose the hold most of the time, if he is only half hitched when he decides to leave. Shaft end coming at you, does make you see things differently!! Vehicle flipping as you try to circle him in tiny circles, is not going to let you hold his rope or reins very long. Then he is the proverbial "loose cannon" out on the grounds.

I sure DO EXPECT a post or trailer to hold a horse if I tie it there! Such anchors are stronger than I am, rope does not hurt their hands, when pulled hard!

Each of us makes choices. My tied horse is anchored with a neck rope and halter over his bridle. Neck rope takes force of pull away from the tiny area behind the ears if horse pulls back hard. Moves pull to mucular area of neck, no damage to spine.

We ALWAYS tie with neckrope and halter when away from home. A very safe method with the trained (to tie well) horse. I have had horses try to break such ropes in training, and they have been unsuccessful, even very large horses in a temper. Purchased horses doing this, not brought up in our barn! We give them the chance to make good choices when tied way BEFORE we ever ask them to tie on a trailer. They have learned that they WILL NOT get away from anchor point, whatever antics they wish to display, so they don't act up when tied later on. Never been rewarded for such bad behaviour by getting loose, why bother trying it again?

They are tied hard and fast, if I tie them up. I want to find them exactly where I leave them, when I return. Ropes and halters used are solid, not going to break. We train them to know how to tie well, relieve the pull, way before they ever get tied. It is extensive training, they really understand what is expected, action and reaction, so they don't hurt themselves with stupid actions.

Our horses are always praised and petted when standing tied on the trailer. It is a good place to be, sometimes you get fed there too! A horse who stands quietly tied at the trailer is never harmed, no matter how much excitement, noise is going on around him, so trailer is a SAFE place to be.

I guess this is showing my Western riding roots, where a good horse stands tied quietly until he is needed. Could be standing a short time or all day long. Easier than working!! You can work on him tied, get saddled, harnessed or hitched to vehicle. He accepts what you do easily. I expect no less from my Driving horses than any Western horse, whatever their breeding or ages. Tying well is just one of the most basic training steps for us, that anything else is unacceptable. Letting a horse learn to break loose with special tack, string ties or unique methods, instead of standing well, is just very foreign thinking to me.

I said in the previous post, that tying to hitch, if attending a Driving activity ALONE, would be safest. I will stick with that thought.

Sorry, have seen a NUMBER of folks, men and women, who want to head the dancing horse while hitching. Even with extra help, they have a hard time hitching. With lack of basic control over animal, this is actually dangerous. They can't hold him if he REALLY decides to leave. Seen that too. Skilled or not as a Driver or handler, on some days a horse can make anyone look bad.

Any and all methods can go bad in certain conditions, regardless of skill, safety precautions in place. What works with one animal, is not an option with another animal.

We do headers with Lead ropes for our Multiples, can't hitch while tied for that. We have a routine, do not VARY AWAY from that routine. Headers MANAGE THE HORSES, driver hitches them. Headers pay attention to what the animals are doing, stay one step ahead of any reaction to other activities around the animals and vehicle. Keep up CLEAR communication between headers and Driver while putting to or unhitching. We have been told REPEATEDLY that hitching and unhitching is the MOST DANGEROUS time in Driving Multiples. We do not wish to add to the many bad stories that circulate.

I would not go with any absolutes in hitching methods. Like "never tie to the trailer for hitching" or "always tie to the trailer to hitch" or "ALWAYS use a header" or other techniques. Being safe is going to be an ongoing job, taking a thinking person who can always be learning from observing others. Learning never ends. You find methods that work for you, but sometimes you can add a step from watching another person. Makes you safer, works easier in your setting.

The only absolute is NEVER UNBRIDLE OR REMOVE REINS FROM BIT, before the vehicle is TOTALLY unhitched and free from the equine.

[Cartfall]

Well, thinking you can HOLD even a small horse who wishes to leave, with reins or lead rope, is dangerous thinking to me. Yes, you might be able to redirect a held horse a little, but you WILL lose the hold most of the time, if he is only half hitched when he decides to leave. Shaft end coming at you, does make you see things differently!! Vehicle flipping as you try to circle him in tiny circles, is not going to let you hold his rope or reins very long. Then he is the proverbial "loose cannon" out on the grounds.


I would not go with any absolutes in hitching methods. Like "never tie to the trailer for hitching" or "always tie to the trailer to hitch" or "ALWAYS use a header" or other techniques. Being safe is going to be an ongoing job, taking a thinking person who can always be learning from observing others. Learning never ends. You find methods that work for you, but sometimes you can add a step from watching another person. Makes you safer, works easier in your setting.

The only absolute is NEVER UNBRIDLE OR REMOVE REINS FROM BIT, before the vehicle is TOTALLY unhitched and free from the equine.

Thank you for a very good post goodhorse. As always just good plain explanations to the point.

so true about always learning.

[tandem4u]

A good header or better horse holder can stop a horse from bolting. The main trouble people get into is that there help has very little training. A good groom is worth there weight in gold when the #$% hits the fan. It is just as important to train your help as it is your horse! I have come across this far to often from Coaching to CDE's. If your horse holder does not know what parts of the harness is what or has not worked around driving horses, your just looking for trouble.

One other thing, just because you have been in an bad accident does not mean you know or understand anything about them. I'm sure as hell Thomas & anyone with some smarts will agree. Personaly I can count the number of bad accidents I have had on one hand! But I have lost and don't keep track of the ones I have prevented because of my training.

Most accidents can be caught before they turn into to something nasty, if you have the training and understanding to recognise the signs before hand. Preventing accidents is your "job" when you elect to take your horse and carriage out in public and in private. If you have guests or even grooms you are in sole charge of there safety. Too many people take too many risks with horses they "know" have some form of problems. There was just a nasty wreck in PA where a team bolted, turned the carriage over. Ejected the people and ran into a phone pole. One horse was destroyed and the other three are a mess. I doubt the driver or the grooms could have done anything to stop the team from bolting, but the owner was "told" not to drive those horses because they where unsafe & that the onwer did not have the skills to handle them!

Many accidents can be stopped before you put your horse to the carriage!! All to often I hear people explain to me what happened in there accident, it's always the horse did this or the horse did that! They hardly ever lay blame in their hands.

I don't want anyone to experience a wreck, but if you do I want you to learn from it! Ask yourself what "you" did. What could you have done sooner, quicker, better! Horses will do what they feel they need to do at that moment & unless you are right there "no one" can tell you what you should or could have done differently, you have to be your own teacher. There are too many things to consider when things go wrong to give advice afterwards! Everything from equine psychology to human psychology is involved. Some people can handle themselfs in trouble & recover, just as some horses can recover & calm down. I have found in my years of doing this that people often panic way before there horses get really spooked.

The only way you can avoid many wrecks is with training! Training in all forms, horses, driver and grooms. You have to think of your turnout as a "team" and ask yourself what is lacking, where is your weak point. Find your weak point and work on it & fix it! Once you have done your best to train your horses and your staff, if you do ever have an "accident" thats what it will be......an "accident"! And not something you where trying to avoid.

Robert

[Yip]

Well, thinking you can HOLD even a small horse who wishes to leave, with reins or lead rope, is dangerous thinking to me. Yes, you might be able to redirect a held horse a little, but you WILL lose the hold most of the time, if he is only half hitched when he decides to leave. Shaft end coming at you, does make you see things differently!!

Goodhors, that's exactly this scenario. Since she didn't even have a rope, she was holding the halter, which put her waaay too close to the shaft. I was afraid for he.

I sure DO EXPECT a post or trailer to hold a horse if I tie it there! Such anchors are stronger than I am, rope does not hurt their hands, when pulled hard!

I also expect a set in post or trailer to hold longer and safer than a person could. I liked the trailer idea because it would act as a barrier. A crazed horse might run into it, but it probably can't run through it. I can't see any downside to tying to the trailer while unhitching - with bridle on.

Ropes and halters used are solid, not going to break.

Unfortunately, the hardware WILL break. I've seen it happen 2x in my short horse-life. Never thought about it, but maybe a rope halter is better than nylon or leather in that respect.

Great post, goodhors!

[winfieldfarm]

Yip, everyone has great advise here and I agree that there are never absolutes in the mind of a horse. develop a safe system and be ready to alter it if circumstances warrant it.

If you see this unbridling while hitched incident happening again ever, I want you to do us a favor. Get you and your horse the hell out of there. Walk briskly but quietly somewhere far away! If that horse gets loose dragging the cart, the header is the least of your worries. I have seen too much carnage from loose horse with a carriage, regardless of how that horse got loose. You just don't want to be in the way, believe me.

I hope your trainer had a safety meeting before the driving session. If not, I bet she will next time!

Unbridling while hitched is akin to diving head first into murky unventured water. You may not crack your head wide open but why take the risk?

[xsuzi]

I have read of a Carriage Association person who insists that his horses stand as if ground tied. He says that a horse ought to stand while being circled by a human before even taught to pull. Okay, but too late.
Once I was at a presentation show and the judge wanted to know why I had a second noseband below the bridle--it was a nice, thin biothane halter, mind you--and when told, he said "oh, a safety thing". uh, yeah.
I tie to my trailer coming and going. Pony will put nose on rope when coming back, and I unhook the carriage. I know, in a perfect world, he would stand quietly before take off..and we're working on that. I will say that one time i had an attack of air head and was harnessing him without resnapping the lead. He stood quietly, but kept giving me funny looks, until I noticed. My horse was giving me funny looks. We have had a near once or twice and this is when your relationship is at that crucial line: trust, compliance, obediance--whatever.

Headers look nice, expecially when they have nice boots, but I have seen a mini-Whinny (VSE)cowboying all over a show grounds, dragging the carriage, because the header was unprepared (untrained) for a ferocious rottweiler-sized horse. That no one, horse or human, was hurt was nothing short of a miracle.

I am no expert, obviously, but I have been to the emergency room and don't want to go back. I have put too much precious time, money and love into this, my hobby, to want to buy an error from which there may be no return. Thus, i rather look like a scaredy cat ninny and be safe with a spare person, a tied to trailer pony, and a prayer card in my handbag.

[Cartfall]

I don't want anyone to experience a wreck, but if you do I want you to learn from it! Ask yourself what "you" did. What could you have done sooner, quicker, better! Horses will do what they feel they need to do at that moment & unless you are right there "no one" can tell you what you should or could have done differently, you have to be your own teacher. There are too many things to consider when things go wrong to give advice afterwards!
The only way you can avoid many wrecks is with training! it will be......an "accident"! And not something you where trying to avoid.

Robert


Robert, I could not agree with you more, that accidents most often are the result of the driver--

and after the wreck I was referring to--I did indeed ask myself why I ddin;t tie to a solid object (as show a trailer) as I did at home on my hitching rail.

Could not give myself a good reason. Horse bolted due to someone else's inconsiderate actiong--dropping a ramp on a utilitiy trailer not 15 yards behind us. Yes if horse had been tied to trailer, would not have been a true bolt. You are correct that it was my fault for not doing what I usually did.
Was it their fault, no, these things happen at shows. We cannot control what goes on around us--so we need to be more safety conscious and aware of what is going on around us. So what did I learn from this wreck? I want my horse secured to a solid object, and will let him off that tie when I am in the cart.

Training is the answer to all as I found out this weekend on the trail (see 27 miles, bear and a good day thread") . You cannot have enough of it.

But as we as horseman know, there is always more to be learned. But in my mind, something that works and I consider a great safety precaution, I suggest to folks, and continue to do what works for me.

I am not preaching to anyone on how to put their horse to, but as was suggested above, when I see things that are what I consider to be unsafe, I will offer my opinion if they seem willing to hear it and then I remove my self from that area.

As they say, an ounce of precaution is a good thing

I also want to add something about the luxury of having a header, groom, etc. As I drive a single horse, I rarely have someone around to head my horse. Many of us on this board are in that boat. We are recreational drivers for the most part and if we have to wait for someone to be there for us, we would not get to drive. Therefore, we do what we can to make it the most safe sitatuion we can.

I know this has been beat do death on previous threads, so I won;t belabor that point.

[tandem4u]

Hi Cartfall, don't think I was saying you where to blame. As I said you can only understand what happened by being there and seeing it as it happens! And by the sounds of this fits in to the category of "%$#$ happens"!
As people who train horses we understand there is no right way to do things and no wrong way. There is only your way and there is my way, what works for you may not work for me and vice versa.
Personally I never tie my horses to anything even while harnessing. My horses are conditioned to remain standing untill I ask them to move. This works well for me and I consider that an asset to there training. In my thinking if a horse startled while tied to "anything" he will always fight the rope, as I call it. He will try at least once to pull himself free. And once free he makes a choice to stand or run. Most run & many run because they see us, humans freaking out also!

I choose never to tie my horses because it cuts out that first "fight/flight" reaction. If the horse jumps at something (and they have) I can collect them in hand. I always have a rope or a rein on them to catch them, but it is also the "way" I cath them that matters. I am a very relaxed and controlled person and handle myself very well in hard times. Most of the time if you, or more likely the people around you don't over react your horse will calm down after that first fright with tie rope. But thats only my way of doing it.

And yes it is good to have grooms! If you can get them or afford them! Even as a trainer I do not have grooms, for the cost of training I can't afford to hire them! A groom is only a plus "if" they know what they are doing. Personally I do much better on my own 90% of the time. I am luck to live in an area with some good other trainer and we often lend each other a hand when asked. So if I'm putting a new horse to the carriage I have faith in my ground person. But I do end up training alone at times! I don't advise it! But I even do it myself & I have clients who do it! I'm lucky that my cleints are very truthful with me and if they tell me they need to be able to drive alone at times I will understand and help them do it in the safest way possible! That all starts with training the horse to stand! Like I say on my website, if a horse won't stand it's like having a car stuck in gear! And to be really honest with you it's not hard to do! I'm going to post some vids on youtube for some of my students and if you watch them all my horses stand & stand untill asked to move.

So Cartfall, don't think I'm judging you thats really not the way I work.
Safe driving all.
Robert

[Cartfall]

Most of the time if you, or more likely the people around you don't over react your horse will calm down after that first fright with tie rope.
So Cartfall, don't think I'm judging you thats really not the way I work.
Safe driving all.
Robert

Its all good, Robert, nothing taken personally. Just having an intelligent conversation between horse enthusiasts.

And I could not agree with you more than your statement above. Even though I was slung out of the carriage on the trail, I held those lines and asked for a whoa not in a screaming manner. Just a firm and rather quick :yes::lol: whoa. Training is all and how we react is so very much part of the equation.

But I will still tie my horse. :yes::winkgrin:

[Yip]

Robert, will you please post the videos when you get them running? I'm all for statue horses.

If the horse jumps at something (and they have) I can collect them in hand. I always have a rope or a rein on them to catch them, but it is also the "way" I cath them that matters.

But what if the horse jumps on you? One sideays jump is all it takes to knock a person down. You'll have the rope or lines in your hand, but be powerless to head off another jump or bolt. I would hate to hear a person got trampled after being knocked down, even accidentally.

That's my point. A sturdy post or trailer is steadfast. A person just isn't.

I enjoy your explanations. It does prove that we don't all have to have the same opinions to remain friendly and open to discussion.

Yip

[tandem4u]

Hello Yip. I understand exactly what you are saying & yes you are correct. If the horse spooks and jumps on you your done! You might as well be holding his foot! And the funny thing is I once saw a guy do that! Grabed the horses leg to stop him. I'm sure you can guess it didn't workout for him, Lol

The main thing you have to understand is that I have had some really good training in my past. My first job was nothing more than a "Horse holder" And I mean a horse holder! Just stand there and hold horses. But it was very important that the horses did not move an inch. So I was taught everything from tricks to reading a horses body language really well in order to do my job. And trust me the job below me was a bit cleaner! so I wanted to go up in the world for sure.

That said, I never put myself in a place where the horse can get me as best I can & I have very fast reflexes. If you watch me move around a horse every move is a calculated risk. I only pass in front of the horse after I have read his body and I always tell him to stand as I pass. This all sounds like alot of stuff to do before walking around to fix a trace and such, but it only takes a fraction of a second & it's something I don't even think about doing, I just do it every time.

Now in my thinking, I would rather take the chance of the horse spooking and catch the horse and calm him down by the comfort of my voice and hand than the horse panic and fight with the rope tided to a post or trailer. If the horse panics on the trailer he will always be pulling backwards. If he snaps the rope the shock of just the rope breaking can scare a horse more than what spooked him.
For me I like a horse to move forward if he spooks! let him jump forward and catch him and spin him or what ever. If the horse learns to spook backwards your in a great deal of trouble. If I'm in a carriage I want the horse to understand that if something is scary to him, he can run forward and around it. If he spooks and has learnt to stop and spook backwards your in a heap of trouble.

The thing with spooking horses is that most people don't train for them! How many people put a trace under a leg or teach the horse that the carriage can hit him ? these are all things old trainers use to do. "Better to train for a accident than just react to one", they use to say.
How please don't go out and try any of this!! you have to get training yourself in how to do it.
All the horses I train understand what a trace between there legs feels like. They can take the carriage hitting them to a degree & they won't kick after comming here. Kicking is a pet peeve of mine!

The thing with me is I try and train all my horses with the owners skills in mind rather than mine. To me, it makes no sence to train a horse to the level I'm at and send it home as broke! I like to dumb them down so to speak. so when they go home and the owner starts driving them and make mistakes the horse is past the point of reacting to everything thats could happen.

I also enjoy your opinions and everyones thoughts. The best thing we can all do with the knowledge we all have is share it! Knowledge will never expand if we keep it to ourselfs. There is no right or wrong, only different.
My father had a good saying " beware of the man who knows too much".

Thanks Robert

[Yip]

Thank you! I can't wait to see your videos. Cookie stands very well, but not like you're talking about.

Yip

[tandem4u]

Hi Yip. I did a few video's over the weekend and put them up on Youtube. I had to split the video into three parts. I'll do some more in the next week or so and I'm open to any topics you may have. Thanks Robert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t-8lWhppgw

[Yip]

Thank you, Robert! Those were great! I enjoyed seeing your horse's attitude change at the transition times. He sure knows what's coming next and wants to be ready the second you say WALK. I think I could get Cookie standing well, but I honestly don't know if I could ever keep her head up out of the grass. I think that's the first thing we need to work on, just focusing on me with her head up and alert.

You sure have a wonderfully trained horse there. I thought I saw the same one in the blessing of the hounds video. Do you hunt him too?

Thank you again! Please let us know when you add videos which would be helpful to us newbies. And you should have a PM soon.

Yip