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asterix
Nov. 7, 2009, 11:22 PM
So, if you give your horse 1 gm of bute 24 hours before a (non FEI) HT, it's legal, but do you have to file a drug report?

Owners of ever-so-slightly-ouchy-after-a-xc-plus-dressage-day-2-days-before-my-moveup-to-T-pony want to know...

Tx!

JumpingBug
Nov. 7, 2009, 11:33 PM
You can give him more than one gram 12 hours before he does his stadium... So if you ride at 8am make sure he eats the 2 grams before 8pm.

YOU may not combine banamine in bute anywhere near each other though. Robaxin and but are legal together.

I feel it is ok to BUTE as long as a owner, vet and trainer agree where the pain is coming from. We have some oldies but goodies who do their job at BN and N and we know their arthritis sometimes causes soreness so we bute them.

SevenDogs
Nov. 8, 2009, 02:12 AM
I believe it is only one gram but regardless, YES it must be declared (forms available at the show office or should be). There is a USEF publication that is pretty helpful. The link has been posted on several threads here (sorry I'm too tired to look for it) or you can search the USEF site for it that can confirm the one gram or two. There is also an USEF hotline that has been helpful in the past. They will caution that every horse is different and the guidelines are merely the way an average horse metabolizes the bute. You can stay within the guidelines (whether that is one gram or two) and still test over the limit, so there is some risk.

I also believe there is a place for Bute at shows (for the oldies but goodies, etc).

Good luck.

asterix
Nov. 8, 2009, 06:01 AM
Thanks, guys! I will go find the form just in case they don't have it.
It was one gm and he is a 17h draft cross, so I can't imagine I'm in trouble.
It was more a head-off bute than anything else -- he just didn't quite feel his bouncy self yesterday. If he doesn't today in dressage warmup, we will go home -- no sense doing a moveup if we are not raring to go!!

inquisitive
Nov. 8, 2009, 07:15 PM
I don't believe you're expected to fill out the form for bute as bute is a 'restricted' medication.

I think the form is only for forbidden substances.

Regarding bute:
2.0 mg/Lb
(2.0 grams/1000Lb)
>12 hours Oral, IV

or 1.0 mg/Lb
(1.0 grams/1000Lb)
Am & PM feed Oral, 2 doses each day,
12 hours apart


http://www.usef.org/documents/drugsMeds/USEF_EquineDrugsMedicationsPamphlet.pdf

Viva
Nov. 8, 2009, 07:24 PM
When in doubt, call the USEF drugs and meds line (just call the USEF 800# and they'll connect you). They are really helpful and will spell out every rule in black and white so there's no question whatsoever about what you're supposed to do. They're available 24/7.

asterix
Nov. 9, 2009, 09:41 AM
So just for the record, according to the folks at the HT, yes, you do have to fill out a form for bute even within the amounts specific above.

(and he felt absolutely fine, so it all worked out great)

Jazzy Lady
Nov. 9, 2009, 09:44 AM
hmmm... I gave my boy bute before a prelim xc, the night before as per the show's vet requests. I didn't fill out a form and he was drug tested after xc the next day. I told them then that he'd had bute. Neither of them cared that I hadn't filled out a form because I had disclosed the information to them.

asterix
Nov. 9, 2009, 09:51 AM
Interesting! The organizer yesterday said "yes, please fill out the form" when I told her he'd had a gram the day before...

inquisitive
Nov. 9, 2009, 12:38 PM
I usually give bute to help my guy and have never filled out a form. My trainer competes in USEF events almost every weekend.

I'd talk to the USEF, not the HT organizer?

Sure hope I haven't been wrong all these years :confused:

SevenDogs
Nov. 9, 2009, 01:35 PM
I too had given one bute without filling out the form quite a few times over the years and thinking all was good. One day I happened to review the USEF publication and there it was in black and white that it had to be declared. I confirmed with TD and Oganizers. Oooops!!!! Got lucky on that one.

Jazzy Lady - maybe testers were kind that they accepted verbal declaration?

inquisitive
Nov. 9, 2009, 05:57 PM
I too had given one bute without filling out the form quite a few times over the years and thinking all was good. One day I happened to review the USEF publication and there it was in black and white that it had to be declared. I confirmed with TD and Oganizers. Oooops!!!! Got lucky on that one.

Jazzy Lady - maybe testers were kind that they accepted verbal declaration?

Where do you see this rule? I've re-read the med pamphlet and only see that the form is required for forbidden substances

Janet
Nov. 9, 2009, 07:26 PM
So just for the record, according to the folks at the HT, yes, you do have to fill out a form for bute even within the amounts specific above.

(and he felt absolutely fine, so it all worked out great)

I'd check with the TD rather than the organizer.

Or ask Gretchen.

asterix
Nov. 9, 2009, 09:45 PM
'doh! yeah, I could do that. :lol:
I'll let you know what she says...

JumpingBug
Nov. 10, 2009, 12:37 AM
"SevenDogs

I believe it is only one gram but regardless"

Maybe a small horse or pony but a decent size horse may have 2 grams 12 hours before the next days class! If we are drug tested sure we declare those that are but NO we do not fill out drug forms for regular HT or H/J shows.

asterix
Nov. 10, 2009, 06:27 PM
so, as Janet suggested, I asked my coach, who is a TD and official at horse trials (and FEI events) all over the country.

She said, basically, you do not have to fill out the form IF you are sure your serum levels would be in compliance when/if tested. So, in the case of my 1500 lb horse (on a svelte day), 1 gm of bute almost 24 hours earlier would probably be fine.

But if one wants to be better safe than sorry you can and should declare.

SevenDogs
Nov. 11, 2009, 12:05 AM
Thanks for the clarification! :)