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eventingismylife
Nov. 2, 2009, 08:29 PM
I am 16 (almost 17) years old and am currently making plans for my horse to be humanly euthanized. I bought her to hopefully, at least, take to training level and get my C1, C2 and hopefully my C3 on in Pony Club as. While I am in the same boat as many kids today that have the talent, guts, and determination to make it to the top, I also don't have the money. Fortunately I have a great trainer who has opened her door to me "literally", and an amazing grandfather that is doing all that he can to help me get there. But I am still out a horse and hundreds and hundreds of dollars. I am lucky enough to have found a possible horse for me, but at 5k he is quite a bit more than we can spend, his owner is willing to be neg and hopefully let us make payments. The down side is that he is a roarer and did so as a 2 year old on the track, to my knowledge he hasnt done so since.
Fozzy is a 17.1hh bay OTTB gelding, and 8yrs old. He has free jumped up to 5ft with ease (http://www.youtube.com/user/epinoiatyree11, this is him as I believe 2 years ago) Since then he has shown through 3rd Level Jumpers, Preliminary combined tests, and has been low jumper reserve champ in '08 in the local show circuit. He is also schooling 1st level dressage. He could easily take me to my A rating in pony club and probably go advanced in eventing. The only reason they are selling him is because her son lost interest. Tell me what you think, is he something to look into some more, will roaring be problem?
Thanks in advance!:)

eventingismylife
Nov. 2, 2009, 08:51 PM
Here is his pedigree:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/lord+raja

bornfreenowexpensive
Nov. 2, 2009, 09:14 PM
If he is a roarer...that can be an issue for eventing. Best thing is have a vet look at him and possibly scope him.

Sorry about your other horse and hope that you can find a new partner. Listen to what your trainer thinks and a good vet.

Gry2Yng
Nov. 2, 2009, 09:30 PM
His sire Lord Avie is first class. Can't tell anything about him conf wise in that video, he is too furry and never stands still. He has scope.

ThirdCharm
Nov. 2, 2009, 09:34 PM
How is he doing Preliminary combined tests if he is only schooling 1st level dressage?

That aside, roaring can be a problem in eventing even at the lower levels. One of my students had to have surgery on her Novice horse, a roarer, because when asked to go on the bit he could barely breathe and he would freak out. A couple grand later, he's fine, but she's always worried about aspirating feed and such.....

Jennifer

Jagged
Nov. 2, 2009, 09:42 PM
I'm not a huge fan of his form over fences. He really seems to drop his knees. And you don't think its a bit soon to be claiming him as an advanced prospect?

Beam Me Up
Nov. 2, 2009, 09:50 PM
I'm sorry to hear about your mare.

And very sympathetic to your situation as a similar thing happened to me around your age and I understand that trying to find something fairly close to event-ready on a shoestring is always a challenging compromise.

As others have said, roaring can be an issue for eventing, in some cases, and a vet would probably have to see him to make that determination.

It's hard to see much in the video.

My one concern, just from my own horse shopping experience, would be that a horse with as much show experience as claimed should at least be able to be shown ridden/jumping under saddle, and probably has a some cute show pics of him in shape, competing.

I am always surprised by how few sale horse competition claims check out--the jumper record you should at least be able to get on USEF if you know his show name or his rider.

pday09
Nov. 2, 2009, 10:01 PM
I caution you to be a little more realistic- I don't see anything in that video that would make me think of him as an advanced prospect, but videos don't show everything. I would want to see pictures/video of him more in shape and in competition. Check his records. If he shows that much, you should be able to talk to a third party about his performance.
And finally, I know that money is an issue but do not skimp on his pre-vet exam, and getting his roaring checked out.

Meredith Clark
Nov. 2, 2009, 10:10 PM
I hate to say this because I have a horse with every problem you can think of (cribber, headshaker, kissing spines, etc) some of which I knew about when I got him (cribbing).

However, I wouldn't buy a horse with breathing issues and hope it would be an upper level prospect. Breathing problems can become degenerative or more serious quickly. I had an OTTB who's breathing became so badly she had to be put down only a few months after she came off the track.

This is a great economy for a buyer... I'd keep looking

good luck!

Couture TB
Nov. 2, 2009, 10:14 PM
Roaring can be a major problem in eventing. I have also found, atleast IME, that most horses that are roarers also are bleeders. You would need to get him scoped. The video just shows a blurry fuzzy horse that will try to jump a large fence but has a loose front end. Have you seen him school XC? Have you ridden him XC? What level has he schooled XC? Why only CT which don't have XC? You seem to have listed everything but XC in what they tell you about him. You will not know if he is even a lower level event prospect till you get him out on the course. I have had horses that were great dressage horses and great jumpers but were not XC horses, didn't like drops or water etc. Before spending $5,000 on an 8yr that has no events under him, not even a BN I would think twice if I was you.

ohear001
Nov. 2, 2009, 10:18 PM
I was also in a similar situation. My horse died when I was 16 and then I ended up with a skinny OTTB who roared. My guy has turned out to be fantastic and the roaring doesn’t bother him very much. But we just do BN/N. For an upper level horse, I would think the tie-back surgery would be a necessity, which is $$ and also has potentially serious side effects. This horse looks cute, but I'll be the first to admit that I know nothing about picking out an nice prospect. Good luck with your search and sorry about your current horse.

TB or not TB?
Nov. 2, 2009, 10:19 PM
I will try to say this in the kindest way possible :) I think you should keep looking for something different, given your goals. He has a weak hind end and I'm not thrilled with his shoulder. If you add that to roaring, I would pass on statistics alone, irregardless of price.

Now, if he truly has the show record and stats they claim, he ought to be more than $5k. That is a huge red flag for me. If they are unfamiliar with eventing, is it possible they thought preliminary meant like BN? I know people who have made that error. Anyway, it just doesn't seem to add up. If I liked him a whole lot better in his video, I might track down the cause of the discontinuity, but I don't think it's worth that much effort quite frankly.

Blugal
Nov. 2, 2009, 10:41 PM
Agree with TB or not TB.

For what it's worth, when I was looking at age 15 for a YR and upper level pony club horse, I found a couple that were totally suitable. It was all about networking.

One through an Olympic rider/coach - her student was off to college and the parents didn't want to pay board. He was 11, 16.1 hh black TB gelding, had evented to Pre-Training but shown to 3'9 jumping and a bit more dressage - had done a lot of horse shows. We bought him and I did one Pre-Training then a full season of Training, did a Training 3-day and my B test, the following year moved up to Prelim. Great buy under $5K (mind you that was over 10 years ago) as we were a "good home".

One through YR contacts (I had joined my region's YRs and asked the Mums in Charge). Son had gone to NAYRC twice, was going to college, parents wanted horse to have a good home. 12 year old mare, I think she was TB, 16.1hh. They came down on price quite a bit, again for the good home factor. We ended up not getting her (got the other horse above).

There are also often good horses available through Pony Club - ask your region's head honcho about clubs in the area. Lots of times there are decent/nice horses who haven't realized their potential yet, but are quiet enough to work with and bring along.

Good luck & condolences about the horse you have now.

JumpingBug
Nov. 2, 2009, 11:51 PM
If the horse in question has done all of these things, why a 2 year old video. Do they have video of his jumper classes or combined tests. And even if a kid has lost interest 5k is pretty much give away money?

eventingismylife
Nov. 3, 2009, 12:53 AM
When I went to get the links to the other videos (of his prelim dressage test, and jumping rounds), they have been taken off. I wasnt too keen on his shoulder either..... Here are some more pics:
http://www.pandemoniumfarm.com/forsale.htm
got down to STILTS

judybigredpony
Nov. 3, 2009, 07:26 AM
While he has a drapey front end over the jumps @ his size that jump was a lope.
Its the wind...a big horse w/ supposed nice gaits who is as nice and easy to the jump as him is WAY more than $5K even in this economy.
If he Roars, he Roars. Paralyzed or slow/lazy flaps do not get better w/O surgery. He may have a tense throat or a naturally narrow airway and make a slight noise when nervous but if he Roars he Roars. The caveat being he may flip his palate or displace his palate that is something horses overcome or cease when not racing...but not always. Does he make a grunting noise when jumping?? He has to be scoped @ rest and immediately after hard work.
Honey I have great emapthy for your situation and where you live its tough. But if you truly have $5K to spend you can buy n vet 2 nice OTTB and ship them for the price.
CA C.A.N.T.E.R. has tons for you to go look @ w/ your trainer.
While he certainly seems like a very nice horse, I wouldn't put all my eggs in his basket and definately not hitch my advance star to him.

avezan
Nov. 3, 2009, 07:39 AM
Wow, he is big. And he can jump. I also think his hind end looks weak. But the red flag for me was the description of what he had done and the low price. There is a definite disconnect there. Should you investigate further? Yes, I probably would. Find people (other than the sellers) who are familiar with the horse and what he has done. Watch him be ridden. It doesn't sound like he has gone XC yet. See how he is with water. If you dont' find any skeletons in his closet, before you get too attached, do a thorough vet check. You will have to spend money on this. It will be money well spent. Another possibility may be to try and lease the horse. If the owner is off to college, having someone lease the horse to pay expenses is a good option for the owner. Then you can try to find out what his issues are without paying for a PPE and determine if he is the right horse for you.

But Canter and OTTB's are cheap and in large supply right now. If you have the time to bring one along, I'm sure you can do your ratings with the horse. I didn't get the impression that you were actually looking for an advanced prospect.

I'm very sorry to hear about your current horse.

Jleegriffith
Nov. 3, 2009, 11:09 AM
I was very prepared not to like him based on his video but I did like him a lot. I suppose I am looking at it a bit differently though because based on that video what we see is a horse that is very out of shape in the middle of winter who seems super sweet and pretty damn cool to be jumping that big of a fence with no real guidance from the groundsperson. Yes, his hind end looks weak but he could just be really out of shape. I liked the shape that he was jumping in nope not the best front end but there are many UL horses without great front ends. He looked drapey but used his body and got plenty of height over the fences so didn't appear he lacked scope. Has a nice stride and seemed like he had good gaits.

Roaring is an issue so have that looked under but it can be very easily fixed for not a lot of money.

I bet there are more videos of this horse when he is actually in shape and I would almost bet he is pretty impressive. I would be taking a look for $5k especially if they are negotiable. Ask to see his record and more current video. Temperament and attitude is half the battle and he looks to have the right qualities to make him very trainable.

I think everyone wants the "perfect horse." I work with CANTER and while I see a lot of nice horses he sounds like he has a lot of mileage and is already quite proven.

badawg
Nov. 3, 2009, 11:43 AM
Hey...you know who I am! Rowan's mom! Anyway, look. Not impressed by this horse at all. There is so much better out here for less than this and I think that M. would agree. The challenge with you is finding something tall enough. But, you certainly have the ability to take a young horse or an OTTB along, particularly with her guidance. So, with that in mind, you might turn your focus in that direction. I can tell you how satisfying it has been to bring one along and to see the results of my hard work. Look what I bought for $800!!!! Anyway, keep your eyes open, there are so many really nice horses out there right now for dirt cheap that will get you where you want to go.

LKF
Nov. 3, 2009, 12:00 PM
"The down side is that he is a roarer and did so as a 2 year old on the track, to my knowledge he hasnt done so since."

Once a roarer - always a roarer unless he had the tie back surgery that runs betweem $1500 to $2K. Not good for even a low level eventer.

If you really love this horse, make the owner on offer and get the surgery.

bornfreenowexpensive
Nov. 3, 2009, 12:19 PM
Personally....if he is a roarer...I would be looking elsewhere unless he really knocked my socks off in person. It could be that he is a roarer and that is WHY he is cheap. Because roaring is a problem even from a show horse and without the surgery...his uses are limited. But you need a vet's advice.

As for the free jumping...I loved his attitude. But don't be too impressed with the size of the fence. Just because they can free jump well doesn't mean they will jump as well with a rider on their back. So while I do like to see free schooling to get a sense about a horse....that isn't how I judge their scope or ability to jump as a competition horse.

ETA: Based on the video...I wouldn't rule him out and would go look at him. If he is 5K because his roaring is bad (otherwise he WOULD be more expensive)...then I'd want a vet's advice on him (and I'd want a PPE regardless....the purchase price is the least expensive part of owning a horse). As Jlee said...your can possibly do a fairly inexpensive procedure to fix the roaring....but you need a vet's advice on that and the cost and risk need to be factored into your purchase.

Meredith Clark
Nov. 3, 2009, 12:42 PM
Hey...you know who I am! Rowan's mom! Anyway, look. Not impressed by this horse at all. There is so much better out here for less than this and I think that M. would agree. The challenge with you is finding something tall enough.

Wait who's Rowan?

What is the challenge with height? This isn't hunters and people show ponies all the time. I def. don't think the OP should buy this horse because he's tall

Jleegriffith
Nov. 3, 2009, 12:50 PM
We are only getting a snapshot of this horse with this video. I don't think his form is that bad but my opinion is based on the thinking that we are seeing an unfit horse in the middle of winter. Sure it could be much worse with a rider up or he would continue to jump everything with enough height that a bit of a drapey front end wouldn't matter. The OP doesn't have a lot of money to spend and needs a big horse. If you are going to buy a big sound tb off the track you are looking at 1-2yrs to get it to the level that this horse currently is. I love my ottb's but we all know buying straight from the track is a gamble. That doesn't always matter but when it comes to finances and being in pony club it would be something I would consider. Sounds like she needs something that is guaranteed to do the job intended. It is quite possible he truly does have the record they say he does. A throat surgery is something that is relatively cheap to do and if the vet thinks he has a good chance of fixing the issue the horse should recover quickly and be ready to go to work before spring.

OP- if you get another video please share. I would be interested in seeing what he looks like now. I have many horses come in that started out looking like this and a year later you wouldn't even recognize them.

bornfreenowexpensive
Nov. 3, 2009, 01:02 PM
[quote=Jleegriffith;4480933]We are only getting a snapshot of this horse with this video. I don't think his form is that bad but my opinion is based on the thinking that we are seeing an unfit horse in the middle of winter. Sure it could be much worse with a rider up or he would continue to jump everything with enough height that a bit of a drapey front end wouldn't matter. [quote]


Edited my response to be more clear Jlee. My point wasn't to rule him out or in. I just think some people put too much weight on the free jump...good or bad. I don't. I use it just to see their attitude. He seems brave and willing...good traits. But don't count the size of the jump as an indication that he will be an Advanced horse or even that he is a good or bad jumper. With a rider on board...his whole jump could be different....and as you said...fit and in work...he is going to look a lot different.

To me...the big risk with this guy is his roaring. The OP should go look at him and try him. If she likes him...get a good PPE and scope him. It isn't a ton to fix roaring...if it is fixable...but it does cost $$$ and has some risk so that needs to be factored into his price. It may also be leverage to get his price lowered....unless it is already lowered because he has an issue (which is what I just suspect).

Meredith Clark
Nov. 3, 2009, 01:10 PM
The OP doesn't have a lot of money to spend and needs a big horse. .

Neville Bardos is 16.1 and i'm sure Boyd Martin is taller than the OP. I don't see why height is really an issue.

There are tons of 15'3 to 16'2 horses out there that are going in the Upper Levels, not to mention some amazing ponies and honies!

I told Rowan's mom via PM that although I get the height issue (after horse shopping with my 5'10ish sister) that a rider doesn't want to look silly on a short horse.. if you really want an upper level horse it shouldn't matter (as long as the horse can preform)

JER
Nov. 3, 2009, 01:18 PM
I agree with Jleegriffith on this one.

If he's doing what they say he's doing -- and you should get some video/documented evidence of this -- he's worth looking at.

I thought the horse's free jumping was fine. The 'dropping his knees' comments are irrelevant because he was clearing the fence will with his shoulder and jumping economically. This is a good thing in an eventer -- an extravagant, knee-snapping jump doesn't mean much outside the young horse auction.

'Roaring' can mean all kinds of things. You'd need to get the specifics. I hunted/evented a horse with an airway 'issue' for many years. His trachea tightens when he starts to work but then it relaxes and he's fine. (My PPE vet galloped him on a track to identify the issue.) He competed to Prelim till age 19 and retired due to a skin condition. If I posted a photo of him here asking for feedback on his conformation, I'd be laughed off the board. But he's quite sound and still jumping at 25/26.

I had another horse who competed at P for years without incident. He's a 17+hh TB will all kinds of structural funkiness. But he gets around just fine and is lovely in dressage. You'd never guess by looking at him and no vet in the world would recommend buying him. But he's very functional and that's what really matters if you want to get out and ride.

However, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that he's an Advanced prospect. More like Prelim -- after that the demands rule out a lot of horses.

Jleegriffith
Nov. 3, 2009, 01:20 PM
Meredith- you will never have to convince me that people don't need that big of a horse but many people are so set in their ways you will never change their minds in regards to height. Just try to sell that 15.2 h-15.3 h that is way more talented than the 16.2 h horse in your barn and let me know what you discover about why height matters in selling horses.

I had someone shopping recently who told me they were looking for anything under 16 h. I was shocked..it almost never happens no matter how tall the person is.

I think professionals are often a lot more open minded on height but then again those pro's who are buying for potential resale down the road still need to keep in mind what the general market supports.

Bobthehorse
Nov. 3, 2009, 01:23 PM
I'm not a huge fan of his form over fences. He really seems to drop his knees. And you don't think its a bit soon to be claiming him as an advanced prospect?

This. Its too son to be calling the horse an advanced prospect, and too soon for the rider to be claiming she has that kind of talent as well. The reality is, no one really knows how far a horse or rider will go until they get there.

badawg
Nov. 3, 2009, 01:37 PM
FWIW, I don't believe the OP ever claimed that she had the *talent* to go to the UL, just the drive and determination. Which, (although I've never been there either) I can tell you, the girl is seriously committed. I can't speak to the Upper Levels, but she would certainly give it her all if someone gave her the chance.

TB or not TB?
Nov. 3, 2009, 01:44 PM
I agree with Jleegriffith on this one.

If he's doing what they say he's doing -- and you should get some video/documented evidence of this -- he's worth looking at.

I thought the horse's free jumping was fine. The 'dropping his knees' comments are irrelevant because he was clearing the fence will with his shoulder and jumping economically. This is a good thing in an eventer -- an extravagant, knee-snapping jump doesn't mean much outside the young horse auction.

'Roaring' can mean all kinds of things. You'd need to get the specifics. I hunted/evented a horse with an airway 'issue' for many years. His trachea tightens when he starts to work but then it relaxes and he's fine. (My PPE vet galloped him on a track to identify the issue.) He competed to Prelim till age 19 and retired due to a skin condition. If I posted a photo of him here asking for feedback on his conformation, I'd be laughed off the board. But he's quite sound and still jumping at 25/26.

I had another horse who competed at P for years without incident. He's a 17+hh TB will all kinds of structural funkiness. But he gets around just fine and is lovely in dressage. You'd never guess by looking at him and no vet in the world would recommend buying him. But he's very functional and that's what really matters if you want to get out and ride.

However, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that he's an Advanced prospect. More like Prelim -- after that the demands rule out a lot of horses.

If it were an adult or person with means to own multiple horses, I probably would be more encouraging. Of anyone, I am totally all about the underdog wonderhorse! However, given the OP's age and circumstance, I would want for her the very best chance to succeed, which to me means decent conformation and medical history for the required job. For folks with their own farm, a bargain or a longshot is a chance maybe worth taking, but I've known too many young folks for whom it doesn't work out. Since the OP has already lost one horse tragically, I would like to see her with something that can really help her succeed. :sadsmile: Maybe see a little too much of myself there but what can you do?!

FWIW OP, I usually refrain from judging free jumping other than in the manner others have said - horse's willingness and generosity and attitude. Form and scope will change with a rider. What I was looking at was the way the horse was put together - he was indeed jumping with his shoulder because of the way he is put together. That will limit his ability with a rider. If you look how his back ties in to his loins, it's quite weak coupling with a high stifle. This is true no matter if he was dappled and show ready or straight OTT. I wouldn't pass him by as a long shot, especially not when he seems like a genuine guy, but I couldn't give my recommendation based on what is there, for the OP's goals. Does that make sense y'all?

mybeau
Nov. 3, 2009, 02:06 PM
I don't post on here alot, but I wanted to share my experiences with a horse that I leased that "roared". I admire your determination, OP, and it will pay off-the right horse is out there!

Please think very hard about purchasing a horse that has this issue. Its actually considered an unsoundness, which is why a horse that shows in the hunters can be eliminated for this. I know this is meant to be an eventing prospect, so all the more reason to stop considering this horse. When a horse roars, its breathing has been obstructed-and I would imagine that eventing and PCing at high levels, you'd want a something that can be athletic and breath well.

And, if you don't have alot of money to spend, you WILL be spending a lot of money to fix this issue, and its not guaranteed 100% to be a permanent fix. It was about a $2000 surgery. Anyways, after learning all of these things, I decided to not buy the horse I leased, even though I was heart broken. It was a great decision in the long run, and probably saved me thousands of dollars and tears...

I think you can find something nicer and more sound for under 5K-don't eliminate OTTB, just be sure to get a full PPE so you are know what you are getting-inside and out. Good luck to you-eyes on the prize, and stay positive!! :)

scubed
Nov. 3, 2009, 02:14 PM
Don't know if it is ok to post links. I am not in any way associated with any of these, but even on just a very quick look at dreamhorse, it seemed there were other available horses for less money and w/o concerns:

http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1481162&share_this=Y

http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1475381&share_this=Y

I'm sure a serious look could turn up many more, especially at this time

FoxChaser
Nov. 3, 2009, 02:21 PM
How funny! The second Dreamhorse link scubed posted is the horse in question :)

ThirdCharm
Nov. 3, 2009, 02:25 PM
He's listed on their site at $8K negotiable. They may not want to come down more. Though maybe they could buy some SPELLING LESSONS with the money!! (Not to be a snob, but eight errors in one ad?? If you are not a native english speaker, get one of your students to proofread!)

I would not go $5K for a horse that has never been XC even if he is the sweetest horse ever (and he appears to be very kind and intelligent, as he is not getting ANY help whatsoever from his handler, not even a properly set up chute). 17.3 is a big horse, a lot of horse to keep sound. Wind/conditioning becomes even more important with a big horse. Tieback surgery has complications attached. I'd much rather take a swing with an OTTB for a third of the money....

Jennifer

scubed
Nov. 3, 2009, 02:30 PM
FC, okay, that is funny. And interesting that there is no mention of the roaring in the ad.

Couture TB
Nov. 3, 2009, 04:20 PM
Did you notice when you click on 'other horses by this seller' they have two ponies priced higher then him? And they also include photos, one has done PC and eventing.

I would think if they had other horses they were doing XC with they would have him doing it also?

Eddy's Mom
Nov. 3, 2009, 09:48 PM
Be very, very careful buying something from that farm.....

Meredith Clark
Nov. 3, 2009, 09:58 PM
Meredith- you will never have to convince me that people don't need that big of a horse but many people are so set in their ways you will never change their minds in regards to height. Just try to sell that 15.2 h-15.3 h that is way more talented than the 16.2 h horse in your barn and let me know what you discover about why height matters in selling horses.

Gosh if I knew 16.2 horses were so easy to get rid of Jay would have been gone a long time ago :lol: (just kidding!)

I think that's where our perspective is different. I haven't sold a horse in 4 years and the horse's i've re-homed have had issues beyond height!

I've been lucky enough to be in the buyer seat most of the time and especially in this economy is the best place to be!



I had someone shopping recently who told me they were looking for anything under 16 h. I was shocked..it almost never happens no matter how tall the person is.

.

I think I asked you for under 16hand OTTBs a while ago when I wasn't sure if I was keeping Juice :lol: I always had larger horses until I accidentally got a short one and I've been stuck on them ever since!

anyway.. where did people find the farm information? my internet sloothing isn't as good as the rest of you!

eventingismylife
Nov. 4, 2009, 12:04 AM
The reason I need a horse over 16hh is because my legs are so long, even riding a 15.2hh this summer riding xc it looked like I was doing dressage. haha. I just wanted some opinions on his roaring and what you thought about him in general. I got kind of a bad feeling when I looked at the other horses by the seller.
The pictures I gave you guys to see are from an old ad, the people that are selling him bought him only a month ago from Pandemonium Farm- for 8k.
If any one knows of a horse for sale (northwestern usa), or an OTTB please let me know! Thanks!

Meredith Clark
Nov. 4, 2009, 12:28 AM
I did a dream horse search but it's hard because of where you live (tons of nice ranch horses though!)

this guy is cute but young :
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1459936&share_this=Y

Otherwise you could always plan a trip to one of the coasts. Line up a bunch of horses so it's worth the trip and find something you like and have it shipped.

Even if it's just going to the racetrack for a day you would prolly spend less in travel and shipping costs than buying a 5k horse near you.

ThirdCharm
Nov. 4, 2009, 08:42 AM
They've had him for a month and they are willing to take a $3K loss on him???

Yikes.

Jennifer

2horseowner
Nov. 4, 2009, 12:34 PM
My gut instinct says run. Listen to all the other posters on this one. You can do much better than that. As far as tall horses go, I have 2; 17hh and 17.3. They are both great horses, but you will pay more for blankets, bridles, any thing OS. I keep a constant check on legs and hooves. These are big animals and are susceptible to more lameness issues than a lighter, smaller horse would be. Also, these can a lot of horse to keep together, as they have a mind of their own, the wbx especially. You must also hope that the larger horse is not a klutz, and "knows where his feet are." Keep looking, he's out there.

Beam Me Up
Nov. 4, 2009, 12:53 PM
It does sound like there are more red flags turning up, in addition to the roaring.

OP, what is your timeframe? I ask because while taking something off the track and working with it will almost certainly net you the most talented horse with the most promising potential, if your PC/eventing goals are more short term, it might be better to settle for something a little less talented with a bit more mileage, if you can find it.

Are you planning to keep the horse you buy now indefinitely, or are you going to have to sell when you finish high school?

eventingismylife
Nov. 4, 2009, 03:07 PM
I would not sell after high school, I need a horse that I can event on and rate up this summer- the only problem with that is that people want more over 10k for a horse that can do that.....

bornfreenowexpensive
Nov. 4, 2009, 03:21 PM
I would not sell after high school, I need a horse that I can event on and rate up this summer- the only problem with that is that people want more over 10k for a horse that can do that.....


I think that you need to really think about what you want and need. For PC...most folks I know have borrowed horses for the ratings. Many kids do not have the right mounts to do the ratings on and people are generally pretty good about loaning a good horse for that limited purpose. For your own eventing goals...you may need to go for a green bean with talent and then take to time to bring them along. Take you time to find that one.

ThirdCharm
Nov. 4, 2009, 04:51 PM
I have had several students rate as C-3s and have lent or arranged for the loan of a horse for C-3 ratings a couple of times. If you are in an active club or have a competent trainer, this should not really be a problem.

I think you should be realistic about your budget.... yes, people want $10K plus for a horse that is ready to event etc. etc. RIGHT NOW.... because someone has put in the time and money to get that horse to that point and (if the horse doesn't have a big hole in it somewheree) usually expects to be compensated accordingly. I always tell my riders who are shopping on a budget.... "You have to give on SOMETHING". Training, potential, age, soundness issues, dressage.... If you need a big packer, you may have to give on age and soundness issues, and buy an older horse that needs maintenance.... if you need a big, sound young horse with upper level potential, you'll probably be more willing to give on how much actual training the horse has..... if you want a been-there done-that horse that is sound and not too old, you may find yourself looking at ones that have average gaits and so-so dressage..... but if you want big, young, sound, fancy, athletic, AND trained.... you are going to find the prices are high, or there is a problem that you don't know about. (and those are the things that will bite you in the rear).

Jennifer

GotSpots
Nov. 4, 2009, 05:17 PM
Or as a coach of mine once said, "Cheap, Sound, and Fancy - any two out of three."

Tommy's Girl
Nov. 4, 2009, 05:53 PM
This ad concerns me for a few reasons. As mentioned before, a horse with that much experience would have evidence in the ad... Why, with almost 2 minutes of video, none of him under saddle? That person in the arena could just have easily popped on a saddle than have him free jump. I think he looks fine on his own, he clears the jumps well - I think his neck and hind look really weak to have been schooling the levels he's advertised as schooling.

If your budget is $5000, but you're considering buying a horse that needs a $1500 - $2500 surgery, your budget is actually up to $7500... There should be nice prospects in that price range - especially going into winter, and with the dismal sale year we've just had.

The other thing I'd like to point out is that he's listed on the pandemonium site as $1000 more than a super-looking, scopey 16.1 Holsteiner mare (her price is also neg.), jumping nicely in the photos - you could have her for a lot less. Just to put your gelding in perspective.

Good luck to you, and very sorry to hear of your current horse's situation.

Heinz 57
Nov. 6, 2009, 03:02 PM
I know of TONS of horses for sale in the PNW.

However, I don't know how far you want to travel. I'm in Oregon, and there is quite a bit to be had around here. I just sold a pony to a nice family up in Bellevue.

gold2012
Nov. 6, 2009, 05:25 PM
I didn't read everything in between so this might be redundant:

1. We have a roarer. My Vet has a roarer. My mare has competed at TR3D and almost won a fitness award...never bother's her, and we had her scoped, she is as bad as it can be. My vet's stallion went to Radnor roaring....so...it can be managed. Fitness is the first key...the more fit, and the better you keep them fit the better. There is two surgery's. One fixing roaring and noise, the other fixes the breathing issue, however, doesn't get rid of the noise. So that ALONE wouldn't sway me against this horse.
2. This horse is EXTREMELY weak in the back end. It's more impressive to me that he actually jumped and went clean on those videos for it, but you won't be able to keep him sound even if you could get him up there.
3. Why didn't they have a rider? That just seems odd. If I had a horse that I was saying could do all this showing, they should be able to climb aboard and get some under saddle pics. His neck is upside down....
4. Why is he 5K? and that tall, that color....hmmm, I suspect something is up.

I feel for your plight. My daughter is an amazing rider, but we haven't got the horseflesh to get to those upper levels...just keep plugging along. Have you thought about some of the rescue organizations that take on OTTB's, or even some of the sites that sale them?

FolsomBlues
Nov. 7, 2009, 11:25 AM
They've had him for a month and they are willing to take a $3K loss on him???

Yikes.


THIS! Holy Cow! Usually, when you buy one and sell it quick it is to make a profit, I would be VERY worried if they were willing to take that kind of loss.

My husband works at a surgical veterinary clinic, they just had a roarer come back in who had the tie back surgery, he was there to get the flap removed because the tie back surgery didn't work. Lot's more $$$ being spent.

I'm with everyone else. Try to lease something or try to set up a buying trip over the holidays to the west coast to pick up something. If you don't mind a green bean with lots of promise, contact this guy: www.tbfriends.com He knows tons of farms that are going out of business with sound, talented horses that just need homes. Tell him what you want, he'll find it for you. He runs a rescue, but has become so well know that people contact him all the time asking for his help in rehoming their horses.

eventingismylife
Nov. 8, 2009, 12:45 AM
I don't want or need a packer or a fancy horse, just something that has potential, the height, and soundness. Thats it, nothing special.
More than likely I am just going to look for a younger horse that needs some more training, and I may have found one. I just really wanted to be able to qualify for NAYRC before I am 21, and for USPC Western Champs in at least eventing this year- and I am not sure that a young horse would be ready for even BN champs this summer.
The only thing with PC in MT is that no one wants to let you use their horse.....for anything. If you don't have money you are looked down upon, waaaaaay down.... Who knows maybe I will be able to use one my trainer's horse for ratings. But that is tough too being that we are 3hrs apart, haha. I'll have to figure something out :).

FolsomBlues
Nov. 8, 2009, 11:42 AM
Saw this on the giveaways thread and thought he might be a prospect for you...he's kind of in your neck of the woods:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=231565

FolsomBlues
Nov. 8, 2009, 11:46 AM
Or this one: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=231316 You don't have to pay to buy, but she could move you up the levels.

scubed
Nov. 8, 2009, 08:34 PM
That Moses horse on the giveaways is quite a looker IMHO. I'd go for him in a second (if I didn't already own two horses that I don't have time or $ for :p).

jenarby
Nov. 10, 2009, 05:56 PM
Did anyone else happen to notice this horse's big ankles or the knot on his right knee? If I were looking for an upper level prospect that in itself would be a red flg.

bornfreenowexpensive
Nov. 10, 2009, 06:10 PM
I just really wanted to be able to qualify for NAYRC before I am 21, and for USPC Western Champs in at least eventing this year- and I am not sure that a young horse would be ready for even BN champs this summer.
.


Please....you are kidding right?

If you get the right young horse...they can easily be doing novice or even training by this summer.

My current OTTB did a dressage show with an R judge (and a tough judge) with just 30 days re-training from the track...scoring a 31 on Novice B...and did his first BN HT with 60 days (clear xc with ease). And I'm not a fantastic rider by any means. (and he isn't a lightly raced OTTB either...over 20 starts). We have another OTTB in the barn who is very similar if not nicer....it isn't all that unusual. Both these boys will most likely be going training next spring after a couple of outs at novice.

It is all about getting one with the right brain as well as athletic ability. Then you do what they are ready for. But If you got a nice green bean right now....have access to good facilities (i.e. indoor, good footing, good training)....and if you don't have any set backs with injuries (a BIG "if")...a goal of being competitive at novice by spring isn't out of the question at all....and I would say is actually very VERY typical.

eventingismylife
Nov. 10, 2009, 11:18 PM
Thanks, I havent trained a young horse in over 3 years now, and boy she was a little b*tch and it took forever just to get her leads down. Haha. Anyways, thank you for your advise!:)