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View Full Version : Would you be eliminated for losing your armband?



gully's pilot
Nov. 2, 2009, 04:11 PM
I know you've got to start your jumping phases wearing your medical armband, but are you eliminated if the sucker falls off?

On Sunday I ran xc in the rain at Virginia; for the first time ever, I had a windbreaker on over my vest but under my pinney. My armband slid down the slick fabric of the sleeve and was actually looped over my rein--ie, it was entirely off my arm, but still "attached."

Then Gully stopped at the water. I went to shorten my rein and realized that if I did that, my armband would fall to the ground. So I took the time to shove it back onto my sleeve--time which would have better been spent whacking Gully--who decided he was really not ready to get any more wet.

In retrospect I should have grabbed the strap of the armband along with my rein, and carried on that way--and in further retrospect, that's the last time I start without safety pinning the armband in place. But--what would have happened if I'd dropped it?

SevenDogs
Nov. 2, 2009, 04:18 PM
But--what would have happened if I'd dropped it?

Nothing would have happened. I believe the rules have a monetary fine as a consequence for not wearing your armband -- not elimination and I doubt seriously there is any ground jury that would assess a fine for an armband lost on course.

deltawave
Nov. 2, 2009, 04:19 PM
I think this sort of thing falls under "at the discretion of the Ground Jury", and it would be pretty hard-hearted of them to eliminate a rider for an unforeseeable "whoops" like this. :)

gully's pilot
Nov. 2, 2009, 04:20 PM
Damn. Shoulda let it go.

Ishi
Nov. 2, 2009, 04:29 PM
At Morven Park mine slipped on my Prelim horse after the bounce, I thought it was tight but guess not. I just held it in my hand with my reins, but thought about dropping it somewhere I could go back easily and get it. Galloping to the water I kept thinking over and over again if I ever read if you would be eliminated for losing it. I decided to hold on to it, I forgot to ask after XC too.

scubed
Nov. 2, 2009, 09:27 PM
MEDICAL CARDS. An approved and completed medical card is required any time while
jumping. It must be enclosed in a transparent, waterproof carrier. It must be securely
attached to the competitor’s upper arm on the outside of the competitor’s clothing. Failure to
wear one’s own medical card shall be penalized by a fine of $100. (Payable to the
Organizing Committee)

So, in theory they could fine you, but I doubt anyone would under those type of circumstances

cowgurl1985
Nov. 3, 2009, 12:49 AM
As much of a pain the booty those things are it sure came in handy when i fell off recently on XC and had a rather bad accident and was in so much pain I couldnt answer any questions and luckily I had that dang thing on! If only there was a better was to attatch them bc mine falls down continuously too and i put it on super tight.

Ishi
Nov. 3, 2009, 07:15 AM
Thanks scrubed! I decided that I probably would be OK if I had to drop it, because I went out with it on, and it broke/slipped and sometimes that happens out on XC. I held onto it because there is something in it that I didn't want to lose. I just got a new holder for mine before the next event. The velcro stretches over times, and I guess it was time for a new one for me. I'm glad gully's pilot posted this, I completely forgot to ask at the HT.

frugalannie
Nov. 3, 2009, 08:17 AM
Having had my armband slip down more times than I care to think about (new or slightly used velcro: didn't matter), I now always safety pin it to my sleeve, through the elastic. Said safety pin lives on the elastic between events. I figure even if I fall on it and impale myself, a 1/2" safety pin isn't going to kill my arm that much!

mg
Nov. 3, 2009, 08:46 AM
I've seen people attach them around their xc vest up near the shoulder. I don't know if this would work for a model other than Tipperary (only seen it done on them). Can't slip down there! Though it would be covered up by certain pinnys.

NMK
Nov. 3, 2009, 08:51 AM
I have often thought of making a XC shirt with a built in waterproof sleeve pocket for your Medical ID. If you could buy such a thing, custom in your colors, would you? I've often thought this would be a good thing to have.

Nancy

gully's pilot
Nov. 3, 2009, 09:05 AM
I think that would be a great idea.

NMK
Nov. 3, 2009, 09:24 AM
I have been very seriously thinking about this for a while. I would do a short and long sleeve version, with a color stripe down the outside sleeve. The material would be an athletic stretch type, with some cotton content. No fold over collar, just a simple one that won't bunch under your vest. Each would have a built in waterproof armband and the long sleeve would have a cut out for the watch.

I've thought about chevrons, etc but I think those are best left on the helmets with simple colors under a vest. I'd be interested in hearing what anyone else would want in a xc shirt. Perhaps a zip collar on the short sleeve one?

Nancy

asterix
Nov. 3, 2009, 09:29 AM
NMK, that's a great idea. I'm another one whose armband slips down frequently, and I can't keep track of pins (this from the person who recently lost her stock pin, while trying to pin it on, in her own dressing room)!

I have a couple different shirts in my basic color -- short sleeve, long sleeve, and fleece, to work with different weather.

What I'd love is some kind of wicking/comfy material, non bunching/fairly slim cut. I always wear my vest in stadium but if I didn't I'd want the shirt to be presentable for stadium as we MOSTLY go direct from SJ to XC here, with no change in outfit (some folks pause to put on their vest and change horse boots.)

I am an outlier here but I do wear a vest with shoulder pads (see my pics) so in a perfect world, the pocket would be below that level so easy to see even with those pads....
:D
You asked!!

Outyougo
Nov. 3, 2009, 12:04 PM
I second the "Resident Safety Pin" I hate jumping the last 1/2 of the course holding my reins, stick and arm band!

i found a I-pod arm band at the $1 store and bought the last 2 much more comfortable but i still pin it to the shoulder seam of the shirt or coat

Hilary
Nov. 3, 2009, 12:30 PM
I use duct tape - a circle of it when I don't want it to show and atually think ahead. Just a piece slapped on to the top or bottom edge of the card when I am in a hurry. Apparently the manufacturers of the armbands did not do any market research to know that the majority of eventers are thin women.

My armband would fit my DH's popeye arms just fine.

scubed
Nov. 3, 2009, 02:19 PM
NMK. I would be in for a shirt like that, but safety pin nice because it also works for sj jacket at shows where not waived

secretariat
Nov. 3, 2009, 02:24 PM
I don't read the rule as the commenters have. The fine is for wearing someone else's card. You are REQUIRED to wear a card, so are subject to elimination if you don't wear it "while jumping." If you're wearing someone else's card, you're subject elimination AND fined. As with all rules, the ground jury has some freedom of action.

SevenDogs
Nov. 3, 2009, 02:59 PM
When you read the rule book, I believe there is a section that lists the violations that are penalized by elimination (and even then the Ground Jury usually has the final say on that), in addition to covering it in the actual rule for that violation. Not wearing an armband is not listed as a violation penalized by elimination.

I believe the wording was changed to specify wearing "your own armband" instead of just "wearing an armband" because some folks (certainly not me ;) ) would just grab the nearest armband, regardless of whom it belonged to and there was no rule against it.

For the record (and please accept my apologies for the rant in advance), I HATE the armband rule and was against it when it was enacted. If someone has an issue that needs disclosing, of course they should carry a card (or a med-alert bracelet, etc.) but this rule was made at a time where safety was in the spotlight (the Christopher Reeve incident among other high profile accidents had just happened) and I think it was a knee jerk reaction to "look like we are doing something". I don't think there is any hard core evidence that requiring everyone to wear armbands has made any significant contribution towards safety.

Particularly at the lower levels, I think it also sends the wrong message that eventing is crazy dangerous -- much more so than other disciplines, particularly since we are now required to wear it for stadium. Just exactly how is an eventing stadium course more dangerous than a jumper course? Is a 2'6 Beginner Novice XC Course really more risky than a Grand Prix Jumper class? Yes, if you are an idiot, a BN course is a very dangerous place but so is a H/J course and frankly, so is life (if you are an idiot). I do not believe that a lower level horse trials is significantly more risky than a jumper show for the average intelligent rider who receives appropriate instruction and rides within the limitations of themselves and their horse.

Again, if you have an issue that needs disclosing (diabetes, pregnancy, allergy to bee stings, previous injuries, etc), you should have that information with you and I believe that prior to the armband requirement, most riders that needed to carried that information either in a med-alert tag, medical card, or by having a "in case of emergency" person right there (heck, we have those people even if there are no medical issues to disclose). Perhaps having the cards/armbands handy for those needing them even makes a lot of sense, but I do not believe that everyone should be required to wear them.

I wear mine, because it is required but the extent of the information on it is my name and address. I'm not even completely sure of my blood type but who cares.... is someone really going to give you blood based upon a card strapped to your arm without type and cross-matching? I sure hope not! I also dislike the armband format -- for the reasons cited here. We shouldn't *HAVE" to safety pin ourselves into something that is supposed to be for safety sake and many officials will not let you wear it anywhere besides your arm.

Again, if you have issues you need disclosing, you should wear that information on you at all times, regardless of your discipline. But requiring it of everyone is ridiculous and once again goes back to personal responsibility.

Sorry... rant off.

baxtersmom
Nov. 3, 2009, 05:07 PM
The one argument I can imagine regarding an armband versus another form of medical alert is that it is consistently located in the same place for all riders. Some medical alert bands are bracelets, or necklaces, etc, and so not always easy to locate.

SevenDogs
Nov. 3, 2009, 05:20 PM
Valid point Baxtersmom, but then encourage armbands for those that need them (and provide the information that event emergency personnel are trained to look for armbands at events, *if* indeed they are) and let it go at that.

People with medical conditions are usually very good at making good provisions as needed (alert info, epi pens, always having a ground person with them, etc.) and most emergency personnel are well-versed in looking for bracelets, necklaces, bands, etc. Let people choose instead of assuming we are incapable of assessing the risks and making decisions appropriate for ourselves. Again, personal responsibility and all that ....

cranky
Nov. 3, 2009, 05:24 PM
I don't really have an opinion about the armband being a requirement, but I'm happy to wear one (and if not a rule, maybe I would never have thought to). I'm an adult and single, with not a lot of close family. Additionally, the little bit of family I do have live far away for the most part. So, if I were to get injured at an event, it's peace of mind to me that someone would at least have my emergency contact and health insurance information. It also takes the burden off of my trainer should something happen. I obviously hope that I'll never need it, but I think it's a good idea to have it generally. Not everyone has a big cheering section who would be there for support, information and decision-making were they to get injured.

SevenDogs
Nov. 3, 2009, 05:33 PM
Cranky: Then it totally makes sense for you to wear one and if it were offered as an option, it would get you thinking in that direction (if you would not have thought of it otherwise). I am not opposed to armbands for those that want/need to wear them or even for the USEF to "strongly recommend them". In fact, I am quite in favor of them in those instances. I am only opposed to it being "required".

cranky
Nov. 3, 2009, 05:40 PM
Cranky: Then it totally makes sense for you to wear one and if it were offered as an option, it would get you thinking in that direction (if you would not have thought of it otherwise). I am not opposed to armbands for those that want/need to wear them or even for the USEF to "strongly recommend them". In fact, I am quite in favor of them in those instances. I am only opposed to it being "required".

I agree and now that I've been wearing one, I would want to continue to. I'm just not too sure if I would have really given it enough consideration in the first place, had it not been rule. I guess it would depend on how commonly they were used by most people. Moot point in any case.

Now, I would not be very upset if they eliminated the jumping vest rule! Of course, I'm not going to hold my breath over that one going away any time soon.

SevenDogs
Nov. 3, 2009, 05:50 PM
I'm actually completely in favor of the vest rule. Although I can't say that I have reviewed the data, I believe there is evidence that vests do offer injury reduction/prevention (as do helmets, etc.), particularly in a XC environment.

...armbands... not so much. I won't be holding my breath on armband requirement going away any time soon either. Even though I truly believe it was a knee jerk rule change meant to "look like they were improving safety" it was cheap and very visible.

... sigh.... cheap and visible do not equal improved safety.

cranky
Nov. 3, 2009, 07:08 PM
I'm actually completely in favor of the vest rule. Although I can't say that I have reviewed the data, I believe there is evidence that vests do offer injury reduction/prevention (as do helmets, etc.), particularly in a XC environment.


Oh, I'm sure you're right. But I hate, Hate, HATE wearing one!

SevenDogs
Nov. 3, 2009, 07:48 PM
I will admit that by the time I get the vest and all the gear on, I feel like the Michelin Man and I'm not entirely sure I will actually be able to ride. Somehow, it all works out. :)