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RacetrackReject
Nov. 2, 2009, 11:34 AM
Saturday, while my JRT and I were playing in the pond, we stirred up a grumpy slithery guy. I am looking to identify the guy so that if he is venomous, I can look at getting him relocted.

Anyone into snakes? MistyBlue?

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq111/weltemaker/Tanner/pond040.jpg

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq111/weltemaker/Tanner/pond039.jpg

I don't know why he was so upset. Not like this would have waken him up or anything.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq111/weltemaker/Tanner/pond031.jpg

paintjumper
Nov. 2, 2009, 11:44 AM
If the snake is swimming in water, an easy way to determine if the snake is poisonous or not is to observe if it floats when at rest. A Texas snake that floats at rest is likely a western cottonmouth (remember "cotton floats") or a rattlesnake, as Nerodian water snakes do not float, even at rest, though their spines may come close to the surface when they swim vigorously. Rattlesnakes, like the cottonmouth, swim with their bodies slightly submerged, and float with their bodies above the surface of the water when at rest. ( from a snake website)

This is what I have always been told, the bad ones swim on top of the water mostly. Any snake folks around?

Heart's Journey
Nov. 2, 2009, 11:47 AM
Water Moccasins can be very agressive and yes poisoness. 2Jakes is on her way back from Lake Louisa, so she probably won't see this for a day or two. She can probably tell from the photos.

Louise
Nov. 2, 2009, 11:49 AM
You might want to go to this thread

http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=222550&page=23

and post. 2jakes will know, if anyone will.

RacetrackReject
Nov. 2, 2009, 11:52 AM
Thanks guys! I will post a link over there.

jaimebaker
Nov. 2, 2009, 12:39 PM
Looks like a water moccasin to me, but difficult to tell from the photos. And yes, they are quite aggressive and venomous.

wildlifer
Nov. 2, 2009, 02:14 PM
It is difficult to tell from those pictures, even though I look at a lot of snakes. It looks most like a water snake to me, not a cottonmouth. Both will readily flee in the water. Water snakes are actually generally grumpier than cottonmouths are and will bite much more readily. They are smelly but not venemous. But without a clear picture of the body pattern or head, you can't really tell.

AnotherRound
Nov. 2, 2009, 02:26 PM
Looks like a water moccasin to me - don't want to stir them up. Highly venomous and agressive.

Blkarab
Nov. 2, 2009, 02:26 PM
You can also go to the website

oksnakes.org

Even though the snakes on the site are native to Oklahoma, it will have good pictures and information on Water Mocassins/Cottonmouths, Copperheads, Rattlesnakes, along with non-poisonous snakes too....

We found a cute little snake in the barn Saturday...not poisonous, but it was fun to look it up on the website and know that we didn't kill something good.

Saidapal
Nov. 2, 2009, 02:34 PM
Looks like a water moccasin to me - don't want to stir them up. Highly venomous and agressive.

I agree. Not to be messed with. Gave me the heebie-jeebies just looking at the pictures. I'm sitting at my desk and my feet automatically came off the floor.....yikes. And I'm on the 3rd floor LOL.

RockinHorse
Nov. 2, 2009, 02:47 PM
I agree. Not to be messed with. Gave me the heebie-jeebies just looking at the pictures. I'm sitting at my desk and my feet automatically came off the floor.....yikes. And I'm on the 3rd floor LOL.

:lol::lol::lol:

I agree. There is something about snakes in water that is even creepier than snakes on dry land.

chai
Nov. 2, 2009, 03:01 PM
This is one for 2 Jakes. Your pictures are beautiful.

cloudyandcallie
Nov. 2, 2009, 03:04 PM
2Jakes 'rassles snakes for a living. And has pet snakes. PM her or post on her thread and she'll tell you if it is a cotton mouth or not.

2Jakes
Nov. 2, 2009, 04:04 PM
Yup, looks like a Water Mocassin from the pictures. Not so good to have around...be sure to have a plan (find out which vets in your area have antivenom, just in case) for your JR and watch where you step.

Do you have services or agencies that will relocate him? Do you see him often? Hopefully not and he was just passing through....

ESG
Nov. 2, 2009, 04:16 PM
Looks like a cottonmouth to me, too. And growing up in Florida and living waterside in Texas, I've seen my share.

Stay away, and keep adorable JRT away, too. DO NOT try to "rehome" this critter - it will kill you before that will happen. Just step wary for a while and it will probably either hibernate or relocate on its own. Or, if you're lucky, a hawk, heron or eagle will take care of the problem for you. :winkgrin:

RacetrackReject
Nov. 2, 2009, 05:20 PM
Thanks guys! That is kind of what I was afraid he was.

I have a friend who is a game warden, so I will call him and see if he can move him out or if he feels it's best to dispatch him humanely (and get him to do it for me). I am of the live and let live nature, but will listen to the advice of those in the know when it comes to creatures of the dangerous sort. I live in the middle of Nation Forests and Wetland areas, so maybe he/she could be relocated elsewhere.

Thank you for the comments about the photos and my JRT, Tanner. He is a great dog and we love to go out exploring and take photos.

KrazyTBMare
Nov. 2, 2009, 06:48 PM
Have to agree - as soon as I saw the pic I said cotton mouth! I would be more inclined to say it was a water snake if the scales were "bumpy" or rough looking. But from the pics, everything looks slick, which means it isnt a water snake. It is hard to be 100% sure but it also looks like it has more of the viper face with possible pits.

Heres a close up of one I had on my back porch. Did you get enough of a look to see if it looked like this?

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r186/krazytbmare1/IMG_8188.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r186/krazytbmare1/IMG_8178.jpg

Whitfield Farm Hanoverians
Nov. 2, 2009, 06:57 PM
Time for some well deserved target practice! Please don't rehome him. Just do away with him so he won't get someone else or their dogs. I love animals but will kill any venomous snakes in a heartbeat. Don't have to lose but one precious 4 legged family member to have a life long hate for them.

HuntJumpSC
Nov. 2, 2009, 11:33 PM
Looks like a moccasin to me too. We killed one last week in front of our riverhouse~ they are on the move right now. Nasty things~ watch your doggies and where you put your hands.

ReSomething
Nov. 3, 2009, 02:19 AM
I hate killing snakes but sometimes you must. DH killed a snake that looked too much like a copperhead at the barn last week. It had moved into the shavings pile in the indoor and my instructor *thought* it was a copperhead, as did he. It was quite aggressive and that sealed its fate. They just couldn't take the chance since the shavings pile is used by the mucker and the lesson kids and dogs sometimes play on/in it.

TheJenners
Nov. 3, 2009, 02:33 AM
KrazyTBMare, nice pics!!

Frank B
Nov. 3, 2009, 08:29 AM
Got a .22 handy? Looks like it's time for a little "shoot, shovel, and shut up" home defense exercise. Just remember that bullets will ricochet from water, so be sure of your background.

RacetrackReject
Nov. 3, 2009, 09:40 AM
Those photos look almost exactly like him. He had darker markings on his face and maybe slightly different lines, but yes, he had the viper looking head and those body markings. I know that I had heard about a Moccasins crossbreeding with another species of snake so I wonder if maybe it could be a hybrid or something? Probably just different colored markings due to location though.

I should have mentioned that this pond is in a pasture fenced off from the rest of my pasture at the back of my land. It is not near any houses or in an area that anything other than local wildlife or the neighbors that were poaching fish out of my stocked pond would wander upon. Since the Game Warden paid the neighbors a visit and found illegal game in their house, they have not been back on my land and I don't think they will be out there anymore now. I do not let my horses into this pasture and just put out feed for the deer and other creatures eat. I had an otter for a while, but seems that he has moved on.

Anyway, if the GW feels it's best to just kill the snake, I'm good with it. Otherwise he/she looked fat and healthy and why not keep good genes in the pool? If relocated, I'm sure the GW would take it to an area far away from people. It's not like I'm going to take it down the road and set it free in someone's yard.

Thanks for all of the help and advice! I appreciate it.

johnnysauntie
Nov. 3, 2009, 09:48 AM
Heres a close up of one I had on my back porch.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r186/krazytbmare1/IMG_8188.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r186/krazytbmare1/IMG_8178.jpg

Um, wow! Could we discuss for a moment KrazyTBMare's extreme presence of mind? My reaction to finding one of those on my back porch would not be to grab the camera and get tight close ups. KTBM, you have icewater in your veins. (either that, or you're krazier than your namesake mare ....) :lol:

Beverley
Nov. 3, 2009, 10:00 AM
Well, I can't tell for sure from your pics that it has a viper head, looks like not to me in the one open water shot- but then I wouldn't worry about it anyway. Snakes, even grumpy cottonmouths, really won't bother you, or your horses, if they have an option, and they DO have their niche in the ecosystem.

Years ago when I boarded my horses in Maryland, I chanced upon a really big water moccasin sunning itself at the horses' watering hole when I rode through that pasture. Got off my horse and chucked a few rocks at it to see if I could persuade it to move. No, I couldn't. But it did move out of the way when a few horses came down to the creek to get a drink.

Can't tell you how many times I've seen poisonous snakes crossing the trail when out for a ride w/friends- I generally say nothing, since pointing out that one's horse has just stepped over a rattler would only cause unproductive alarm. I WILL give a warning if I see a snake poised to strike! But that is rare indeed.

KrazyTBMare
Nov. 3, 2009, 01:26 PM
Um, wow! Could we discuss for a moment KrazyTBMare's extreme presence of mind? My reaction to finding one of those on my back porch would not be to grab the camera and get tight close ups. KTBM, you have icewater in your veins. (either that, or you're krazier than your namesake mare ....) :lol:



ROFL WELL........

if you must know... I was home alone. I heard the dogs give the warning bark, run outside, see that big thing on the back porch, snatch the dogs (GSPs) and throw them inside. OF COURSE hubby left the shovel on the back porch because 2 days before we had killed another moc on the back porch. When the dogs barked at the snake, they knocked the shovel over (see shovel handle in 2nd pic). I have a 12g shotgun but really didnt want to 1)mess up the back porch and the concrete or 2) risk pellets bouncing back and hitting me.

So I get in my car and try to see if any of the man-neighbors were home. Of course not! So I called my gf and had her hubby and his friend come over (they live like 5 mins away) to kill it for me. The only other thing I could kill it with was a 3' machette (sp) which is TOO close for my comfort.

I figured why I was waiting Id take pics of it. I really dont like killing things, even snakes, but that was the BIGGEST moc Id ever seen and I have 5 cats and 3 dogs along with the horses and our neighbors have little kids. I couldnt risk it. Plus, my camera has a 12x optical zoom so I wasnt as close as one might think... ;)

harveyhorses
Nov. 3, 2009, 02:14 PM
Well, I can't tell for sure from your pics that it has a viper head, looks like not to me in the one open water shot- but then I wouldn't worry about it anyway. Snakes, even grumpy cottonmouths, really won't bother you, or your horses, if they have an option, and they DO have their niche in the ecosystem.

Years ago when I boarded my horses in Maryland, I chanced upon a really big water moccasin sunning itself at the horses' watering hole when I rode through that pasture. Got off my horse and chucked a few rocks at it to see if I could persuade it to move. No, I couldn't. But it did move out of the way when a few horses came down to the creek to get a drink.

Can't tell you how many times I've seen poisonous snakes crossing the trail when out for a ride w/friends- I generally say nothing, since pointing out that one's horse has just stepped over a rattler would only cause unproductive alarm. I WILL give a warning if I see a snake poised to strike! But that is rare indeed.


If they are out in the woods or far FAR away from barn or dwelling they live, but two horses bitten and one beagle lost has made me a wee bit intollerant.
Oh they won't bother you, HA, JUST HA. They do not creep me out, I just hates them. Not the black snakes or garter snakes or green, I have rescued baby garters from a few situations, but poisonus yes.
I found a copperhead in my driveway this morning, almost under my car, about 10 feet from one of my cats. It is in the dumpster.

dalpal
Nov. 3, 2009, 05:23 PM
Have to agree - as soon as I saw the pic I said cotton mouth! I would be more inclined to say it was a water snake if the scales were "bumpy" or rough looking. But from the pics, everything looks slick, which means it isnt a water snake. It is hard to be 100% sure but it also looks like it has more of the viper face with possible pits.

Heres a close up of one I had on my back porch. Did you get enough of a look to see if it looked like this?

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r186/krazytbmare1/IMG_8188.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r186/krazytbmare1/IMG_8178.jpg


Yikes....his expression says..."HEY YO, get that Mother$%$*%%&$% camera out of my $%*$%& face"

DiablosHalo
Nov. 4, 2009, 07:34 AM
My skin is crawling just reading the stories! LOL! I live in an area where an occasional black snake reaks havoc on the farm! I've never seen any other kind of snake except at the zoo. Every time I think of relocating down south - I stop and say "oh wait- they have snakes and critters down there!". Seriously- what would this ol yank do if she happened upon a real snake- most likely have a heart attack!
I'm sure there are a few snakes around- I've just never seen them. I'm off to check the snake website to see what species are around here. One can never be too prepared. :)

Beverley
Nov. 4, 2009, 05:18 PM
I found a copperhead in my driveway this morning, almost under my car, about 10 feet from one of my cats. It is in the dumpster.

Well, ya see, last time I had a copperhead on the driveway, I herded it into a bucket and relocated it to the woods.:)

Last summer, with fellow campers, relocated a rattlesnake too- someone volunteered his canvas bag for capture and transport...