update pg 2 to pony dropping weight/help needed

[superpony123]

my pony had laminitis in may. he has had a full recovery and is perfectly fine. vet told us no more feed and put him on a grazing muzzle. fine. he drops some weight and gets to the perfect weight, and he started to get a little skinnier (in sept) than we'd like so we took the grazing muzzle off in september. was fine until about 3 wks ago the grass started to get sparse with all the cold, and he started to drop weight pretty quick. we put him on balancer and have been adding a bit more grain and it's only been a few weeks, but it looks like he's STILL losing weight instead of gaining any, and it worries me. it definitely effects his riding too, and I can tell he doesn't quite have as much energy.

now, if this were any other horse we'd be putting a lot more grain in his feed, except that we're worried about him getting laminitis again. is there some kind of supplement that i could give him for now with the food to help him gain some weight rather quickly that will NOT risk him getting laminitis again? maybe that's a silly question--but I'm NOT a feed expert.

I know it would help if I gave you a list of exactly what we've been feeding him, but i don't have that list with me (I only help feed if I am actually at the barn when they are feeding, and that's not usual. when I am there to feed, his feed has been different and there has been more each time).

[sa11yb]

Honestly, I think you need to call and ask your vet.

[VirginiaBred]

Teeth.
Ulcers.
Both.

[quicksilverponies]

I don't think it is absolutely necessary to remove all feed from his diet. I would feed him a very low starch feed - there are several good ones now - I use Safe N Easy by Buckeye and supplement with Buckeye Ultimate Finish to add fat. I also would give the pony a supplement like Quiessence or Remission. You can also buy a very low starch bagged hay for him - is your hay a good quality? I would feed plenty of good grass hay if you have it as well. It can be soaked and drained if sugar content is too high.

[superpony123]

I don't think it is absolutely necessary to remove all feed from his diet. I would feed him a very low starch feed - there are several good ones now - I use Safe N Easy by Buckeye and supplement with Buckeye Ultimate Finish to add fat. I also would give the pony a supplement like Quiessence or Remission. You can also buy a very low starch bagged hay for him - is your hay a good quality? I would feed plenty of good grass hay if you have it as well. It can be soaked and drained if sugar content is too high.

to clarify- We removed the feed from his diet back in may, from vets orders. I wouldn't have known at the time if it was necessary or not, but the vet said it was, and we all agreed this sounded very reasonable (he was laminitic in all 4, thank god he did not founder though) and once he dropped the excess weight, he was in very good shape for a while and looked great, then he just started losing and losing and losing recently.

anywho, I will look into the slow starch feeds. we have pretty good grass hay (we had to soak his hay for most of may and june but since then the vet has said it does not need to be soaked)

[superpony123]

anywho, planning on calling vet too because I am worried.

[EAY]

How old is the pony? Did he shed out normally last spring? Have you considered the possibility of Cushing's?

I agree that checking with your vet is in order.

[lizajane09]

I agree that checking with your vet is in order.

Agreed.

Also would suggest teeth and ulcers.

[rideagoldenpony]

I agree that a visit with the vet is in order, but have you upped his hay? That's the obvious answer to putting more weight on a pony -- more hay. What type are you currently feeding him, and how much?

[Ben and Me]

Is this the same pony that was suffering from chronic diarrhea?

[shire_flyer]

Oil is a great way to get calories in without increasing the glycemic index of the feed (since there is no sugar in oil). Oil also has about 2.5X as much energy per unit weight as carbohydrates and has the added bonus that it will make the coat nice and shiny. Despite previous fears that horses can't digest fat/oil that well (since they don't have a gallbladder which stores the bile needed for fat digestion), they actually tolerate it very well (their liver continuously releases bile into the intestine), with slow adaptation (to prevent GI upset). Current recommendations state that you can give about 1/2 cup of oil/day per 100 kg (220 lbs) of body weight- but again, you want to start out with a small amount per day and gradually work your way up. So, perhaps adding some oil to your pony's diet may be something worth considering??

[findeight]

Poster is already working with the vet on this one...but I would ask him/her to check for Cushings-you have posted about alot of problems with this one, obesity, laminitis, NQR issues and they all could trace to Cushings. It's easy enough to manage and left unmanaged it will cause complications that will kill him. Get the blood work.

OP, you say he is losing weight since the grass has gone sparse? What are you replacing the FORAGE (grass/hay) with? Horses and Ponies do best on a FORAGE based diet with only a little (or no if the hay is good and they are not in serious work) grain or other concentrated feeds. You say nothing about upping hay, only grain a ration balancer-that is not what he needs, he needs HAY.

I am in a barn full of Ponies and-you NEED to look for Cushings here. Please.

[annabellee]

could it be worms or a parasite?

[showponies]

I agree that a visit with the vet is in order, but have you upped his hay? That's the obvious answer to putting more weight on a pony -- more hay. What type are you currently feeding him, and how much?

Gretchen is correct, after the vet looks at him and there isn't an issue...I would let him free eat hay(not alfalfa) but a good grass hay... I think they even grow a low starch hay( Teff hay ,maybe)..Or you could do a mix of local and orchard grass.

[QHmom]

Penfield cool and light, southern states forage grass, quiessence, fast track, aspirin ( for uviatus) and msm. This is our diet for our pony, who we lease, who has foundered before. She is also on dry lot. It has been fantastic and has worked for us for over a year! She is showing some precushings, so the quiessence has helped tons!! Our pony is 20 years young!

[poltroon]

Worms or ticks? You might try a feed-through wormer. Ticks can hide up on the belly line or between the hind legs, where you'd never find them by grooming.

The weather may be an issue, or the grass may be losing nutrition. More hay might be enough.

[YankeeLawyer]

Oil is a great way to get calories in without increasing the glycemic index of the feed (since there is no sugar in oil). Oil also has about 2.5X as much energy per unit weight as carbohydrates and has the added bonus that it will make the coat nice and shiny. . . .. So, perhaps adding some oil to your pony's diet may be something worth considering??

Ditto!

I have a small horse that foundered a couple of years ago; he needs to be on a strict diet and he gets pergolide and thyroid meds. He is doing very well, but recently when he dropped a bit too much weight my vet recommended adding oil to his diet to increase calories without increasing the risk of a laminitis episode. It is best to start with just a little bit and then add more once the horse is accustomed to it. I recommend checking with your own vet but oil works for my guy.

[GreystoneKC]

I have a small pony who had had a bout with laminitis years ago. Since then we have always been very careful about her weight. She was never used much around here and tended to gain weight easily if allowed (which after that, she wasn't, of course). In the past year I got a student who was small enough and a good enough rider to do her and she started being jumped 1-2 times a week, doing some shows, and occasional extra hacks. Next thing I noticed, she was dropping a bit of weight to where she just seemed a bit "too" skinny.

She gets a low carb, low protein grain already, but very little grain, so I gently added a little more to her rations and very slowly. But the biggest change was slowly adding more good grass hay. She gets turned out in our "diet field" and I have no intentions of getting her extra grass - that would just be asking for issues. She seems to be putting some weight back on, but very slowly (which is good). If I do not like her progression, I will add either some oil, which I use when I was to add fat calories without starch or Calf Manna, which I have had success with also.

I highly suggest bumping up the hay intake and possibly oil in addition to the other recommendations of checking with your vet, dentist, and ruling out ulcers, since your pony seems to be dropping weight quickly.

[superpony123]

going to be a quick post so not going to cover much of a response BUT in regards to cushings:

we have not had bloodwork done, but in the past we have asked the vet about it while he was there when pony had laminitis, because there was a horse with cushings in the barn once, and we were concerned, but the vet said he really didnt consider anything pointing to cushings.

- pony's hair shedded out normally
- no unusual or coarseness or waviness of hair
- no excessive urination, nor excessive thirst

but if so many people are pointing to it, i will certainly ask for a test.

[EAY]

The problem with the Cushings tests is that none of them are definitive and without clinical signs (e.g. hirsutism and abnormal deposits of fat) your vet will have difficulty giving you a diagnosis of Cushings even with a positive test result.

Have you noticed any changes in the pony's energy level or a loss of muscle along with the weight?

[Windswept Stable]

Personally, I would also have a full metabolic panel pulled, because many ponies are Insulin Resistant and NOT Cushings. Insulin REsistance can also be managed and the pony can do well.

Also, are you using blankets and sheets, and keeping the pony warm and dry during all this wet, cool weather?

And give the pony lots of hay.

It is also now time in most places (if you have had a sufficient freeze ) to do a wormer - ivermecting with praziquantel.

[VirginiaBred]

Has the Vet looked at the pony yet?

[superpony123]

Sorry that I waited so long to update the thread. Been busy with school work and just have not been on here quite as much.

Incase it was unclear in my OP, i would like to emphasize that the pony never reached any sort of scary level of skinnyness, only the type of skinnyness that makes you say "well, he could do with a few more pounds, that might be better" and the nutritionist agreed on that as well (seen the pony 2x) and basically said he should probably gain about 40 lbs to look just right. which as far as my understanding goes, is the equivalent of you or me needing to gain around 5 lbs. (feel free to correct me if i am wrong)

anywho-Pony is doing fine, energy has increased, and nothing is wrong :) (*phew*) I think someone asked before if he is the same pony with the diarrhea problem I posted about a while ago: Yes. I didn't include this with the OP thuogh, because we've found that with putting him back on grain, his diarrhea has actually gone away. Who'd have thought? (and it seems that it started very soon after we took him off grain. connection made.) No cushings. He's dewormed regularly. More hay has been added, as well as something else to his grain that will not pose any risk for laminitis but does help him gain weight (honestly I forget what specifically-i was tired when talking to trainer about it, but it was suggested by a nutritionist whom came to see the pony) and nutritionist says he is definitely making improvement in weight. The sudden drop in weight was due to a combination of outside factors (as in, not health/internal issues) including the fact that for about a week or 2 where the pony began to drop weight faster than we'd like, we had constant rain and very very cold weather, random freezing, and grass dying. all in all, there was very little outside turnout in those 2 weeks, thus a drop in the foliage available to him (of course the other horses got along fine, but since he hadn't been getting grain, he was just going on the hay.) i wish we'd put all the pieces together BEFORE, so i wouldn't have a huge panic that there could be all these things wrong with him, but I'm glad he's alright. He is gaining weight back and is happy and healthy. Teeth are just fine, also.

Thank you everyone for your concern and suggestions/help. :)