Retraining for proper flying changes

[mzw297]

I would love to hear some best practices regarding working through flying change 'baggage'. I am currently riding a horse that has been overschooled on changes, and he not only shows anxiety when asked for a change but he also rarely gets a complete change. I haven't asked this of him recently, and have been supplementing with simple changes and canter poles among other things.

Have you dealt with this before? What worked for you and your horse?

Thanks so much.

[WillRideForFood]

if the change is there naturally, and the main problem is that he gets anxious, i'd suggest just trotting through them until he stops anticipating them and then asking for one every now and then to slowly teach him it's not a big deal. i've had to do this with one of my babies and his changes are practically automatic now. also, if he does miss one every once in a while, don't get after him... that will just re-hatch the issue.

[Defying Logic]

I have a mare who got really anxious during lead changes due to her first training with it (Old trainer believed in the gallop at the fence and turn at the last second approach). What worked for us was first ignoring them. I would try asking every few months and if she got anxious, I just let them go for a few months and tried again. Recently, she settled down about them, and what worked well to help her stay relaxed was this.

Pick up canter and establish a nice rhythm. Canter across the diagonal. At the center point, halt. Pick up other lead and canter through the corner and head back across the diagonal, halt at the center.

Pick up the first lead again, canter through the corner, walk at the center point. Establish a walk for a few steps. Canter on the other lead. Canter through the corner and walk at the center.

Establish a walk. Pick up the first lead again and canter through the corner. Trot at the center. Pick up the second lead. Trot at the center. Pick up the first lead. Canter through the corner.

This time, when coming across the diagonal, maintain an exagerated bend (shoulder fore) in the direction of the lead you are on. At the center, ask for your change and the shoulder fore in the other direction. If you miss the change, do not make a huge deal. With my mare, I would just halt, then ask for the lead I was trying to change onto, and try again next time through. Canter through the corner, across the diagonal and ask for your other change.

The first could times I did this with my mare, she would get anxious the first time through the diagonal, but since we did either the halt, walk or trot, it gave her a chance to understand what I wanted without getting hyped up. I still have to be careful, since schooling them too often or for too long can get her hyped up and anxious, but she is making progress.

[meupatdoes]

This will sound counter intuitive, but doing lots of counter canter will probably help the situation.

Start with something easy, such as coming off the rail to the quarterline and then back out and ask the horse gently to hold the countercanter without getting flustered.
When he can, go to centerline, and keep moving over until you are doing a full serpentine. (Will probably take more than one ride and you don't want to drill so just play with it once or twice and then move on to something else.)

This will help teach him to relax and wait for you, as well as improve the quality of his canter so that he can offer you a better change down the line.

[florida foxhunter]

I would only have to add...........do lots of praise and "good boys".....EVERY time he does it t\correctly (with any of the above methods you may choose)........then stop, drop the reins......and quit!!! I know it sounds too simple, but I've done it, and it's like the lightbulb went on "oh that's all she wants???".

If they miss it and crosscanter, etc.......I don't get mad or scold, I just calmly say "no", keep going on a circle to try again.........sort of the "get it right and you get to quit" attitude. Obviously only a few times......if he doesn't ever get it, then just stop without the heaping praises. Of course, I agreewith the abover poster to do the simple changes first and be sure to praise when they softly pick up the correct lead, but the BIG fuss (positive)comes when they do the flying change right.

[findeight]

Sorry, disagree with stopping and dropping the reins every time he does it correctly...you will very quickly teach him something you did not intend-swap and you are done. Be amazed how quickly they can learn to associate things.

Have actually rehabbed a couple with this problem, both back when in Western and 2 of my Hunters came all screwed up and overtrained on the changes. It is not that hard, take you awhile though-untraining and retraining take longer then doing it right in the first place.

First step-STOP schooling them. Correct simples only for now...as in no more then 3 steps at the trot. It's become a crisis for him-he is confused and will get sour, if he is not already. They quit trying for you if they are continually corrected and don't know how to do it properly.

Second-realize he has a huge hole in his basic flatwork. You will need to go back and teach extension/collection/laterals and leg yields starting at the walk then thru the trot then at the canter. Learn to displace the haunch properly. And learn to mantain a STRAIGHT horse.

Third-DRESSAGE lessons for both of you, that goes back to flatwork and better H/J trainers can teach you this. If your trainer is cluless? Get another because you do need competent help to get this straightened out instead of getting even worse. No excuse for the level of some "trainers" lack of knowledge of centuries old basic concepts on controlling the horse's body.

Finally...lead changes are FORWARD and off BOTH reins but the OUTSIDE rein is the key. Push the horse from inside leg to outside rein. Too many crank them down to nothing then lean in with the shoulder and yank the inside rein, dumping the horse on the inside shoulder and unable to balance up to free it to initiate a proper change.

I sit at the shows thru 200 2' and 2'6" trips on a weekend and see 80% of these more or less beginner level people, slow waaaay down, yank and lean then paddle off at a cross canter at best.

Gotta be my pet peeve. Let them go on a little and they would change themselves because they know where they are going next but.....nooooo, they gotta yell from the rail to slow and yank the inside rein. Then drop the shoulder and look down just to make sure they cannot get it.

[mvp]

Great ideas, but I'll add my 0.02 on a couple of things.

Dressage is great, but I think they teach flying changes differently. There's a great deal of micromanagement involved in comparison to the autochanges desired in Hunter World. The dressage system works for those horses that have already been taught to listen intently to different combinations of leg seat and hand. By the time someone asks for a change, they already have an established counter canter. How many autochanging hunters have that? The dressagers also typically have the prompt replies to aids for all kinds of lateral work under their belt. IMO, then, hunter peeps would do very well to get the flat-work basis from dressage instructors, but perhaps not follow them hook, line and sinker in terms of how to teach changes.

IME, it also helps to prepare for the change by leg-yielding "out" (that is, away from the new lead you want) as a set up. The aid for even the most clueless rider becomes not new inside hand, but new inside leg.

In terms of training, the leg-yield idea works only with the horse who isn't already worried. I like the halt, or walk, change the bend and pick up the new lead scenario for the paranoid/PTSD type. Adding a few strides of leg yield at the trot my really help anchor the "Yo! We're changing direction and you might want to engage the new inside hind, pronto" idea in the horse.

[meupatdoes]

By the time someone asks for a change, they already have an established counter canter. How many autochanging hunters have that?

IMO, every hunter should have that.

A well established counter canter both improves the quality and balance of the canter, as well as teaching the horse to wait for the cue which can prevent swapping off later on down the line.

At least the trainer with whom I worked when my grey horse was learning changes insisted upon it, and all of the horses in his program spent about 15 minutes per ride in counter canter.

Some people prefer to ride their hunter at all times in the "hunter veneer", i.e. the same light frame and non-interfering ride that shows off the horse to the judge. My preference is to have the horse's training run much deeper than that, and save the "show off" ride for the showring.

[llsc]

I'm firmly in the do the change and you get to walk immediately camp. I've never met a worrier that this didn't work for. The immediate reward for doing it right is a rest. What horse doesn't love that.

I'd ask her over poles only for now. Set up three 4' poles around each turn, just in off the rail. Then counter canter down the long side, when you get to the first pole ask for the change, if she does it, walk and pat her immediately. If she misses it, ask over the next pole...repeat. If she still doesn't get it. Back to the counter canter down the long side and try again. Do this until she's relaxed about the changes and then you can take away the poles, but not the walk on a loose rein as soon as you change. Then down the road, when she's relaxed about the changes, add back one pole on each corner to help if you miss, and eliminate the walk as a reward. Just be patient and it will happen.

I also do a lot of practicing in an open field with a hill, I gallop up the hill and ask for the change at the top. They are already balanced and on their hind end from going up the hill, and the forward gallop makes it very easy to get the changes.

[findeight]

I should have said dressage and not DRESSAGE. Not a fan of micromanaging the changes-that is what may be wrong with this one. But when the change is lacking? So are basics. You need to be going straight, you need impulsion/speed and you need to displace that haunch to the "new" outside with inside leg and maintain your track with outside rein. But you need to be good at each individual part of this and the horse needs to be relaxed and comfortable with it and that is basic small d dressage and alot of flatwork.

I find if the speed/pace is kept up, you get a way smoother change then that bunny hop when going to slow. In fact, if many just looked up and kept that pace up, the horse would change before reaching the corner, if they don't, holding the counter canter is a good reminider. But that is, again, something you need to have in your tool box.

Oh, on that speed and straight part? Nothing like a nice and big ring or a big field, get out of those dinky rings when trying to teach something that requires free forward movement.

[Janet]

Dressage is great, but I think they teach flying changes differently. ...IMO, then, hunter peeps would do very well to get the flat-work basis from dressage instructors, but perhaps not follow them hook, line and sinker in terms of how to teach changes.

I don't think findeight was suggesting "teaching dressage based lead changes".

I think that she, like you, was suggesting using a dressage instructor to re-establish the basics

"You will need to go back and teach extension/collection/laterals and leg yields starting at the walk then thru the trot then at the canter. Learn to displace the haunch properly. And learn to mantain a STRAIGHT horse."

[ksetrider]

Going to play devil's advocate on this one...have you ruled out physical issues with his hocks? Its not uncommon with ones that get anxious. Especially since you mentioned he doesn't land them every time.

[mzw297]

Going to play devil's advocate on this one...have you ruled out physical issues with his hocks? Its not uncommon with ones that get anxious. Especially since you mentioned he doesn't land them every time.

I think this is a great point ksetrider -

The horse did recently (in July) pass his vetting which included flexions and xrays. I would say however that I would never discount some discomfort.

I feel lucky that I do have a good amount of dressage training, and understand what it takes to ride a horse straight and forward. Also - great idea on having a dressage lesson to dust off a few of the cobwebs! I think the suggestions that have been provided are fantastic, and I appreciate the input that everyone has provided.

The Good News: I am not currently schooling the changes, and am looking to continue to build muscle and strengthen his rear end. I asked this question as I was interested in having some ideas tucked in my back pocket when it is time to go back to that chapter. You all are fabulous and thank you so much again for taking the time to provide thoughtful responses to my question. I am looking forward to more transitions and lateral work this winter ;)

[Serah]

Break to the trot... leg yield out... trot till relaxed....pick up new lead.....repeat....


With one mare I had to do this for months until she would even do the simple change relaxed... she had been with the gallop turn and throw your entire body to the outside trainer for too long...


I also second the counter canter work to build strength in the gait...

[CBoylen]

Lots of simple changes with very few trot steps. A lot of horses with lead change issues also have a bad canter transition, so before you start your simple changes make sure that is prompt and happens off the same cues as you would use for the change. When you do your simple changes, use the same cues as you would for your flying change, and make sure you feel the balance shift as it would before a flying change before you break to the trot for your simple change. When you have a balanced, straight horse that sets itself up for the change without changing pace, then you can start to ask for the flying changes again, exactly as you have been doing the simples.

[alteringwego]

Serah is right.

Canter diagonal...break to walk... leg yield out...get straight...trot new direction
then
canter diagonal...break to trot... leg yield out...get straight...canter new direction
over time make the amount of steps that you are straight fewer and fewer
then eventually work toward canter diagonal...slow... leg yield... straight... new lead

[cyberbay]

But, Serah and Alteringwego, leg yield out in which direction? I think this is where riders can get confused, esp. in the short time frame of making a change...

[meupatdoes]

But, Serah and Alteringwego, leg yield out in which direction? I think this is where riders can get confused, esp. in the short time frame of making a change...

You leg yield toward the new outside, away from the lead you want the horse to jump to.

You make the old lead "heavier" and free up the new one.

Then you ask while switching your hips: the 'old' lead hip goes back and the 'new' lead hip and hand come forward, which makes room for the new leading pair of legs to slide in front of the other pair.

[mvp]

Leg yield out-- toward the outside of the new direction does a couple of things:

Though the horse's body is technically straight during a leg yield, it does change the balance. It asks the horse to reach under with the new inside leg (the basis for a flying change) and lighten that new shoulder. It's the cotton pickin' opposite of the rider who leans over the new inside shoulder and grabs a the inside rein. For this reason, I think it helps to teach riders to think about setting up for a change via the aids for a leg yield. If nothing else, it calls the rider's attention to the her new inside leg and prevents ugly, counterproductive "hand riding."

But the other posters who suggest walking in the middle of a diagonal may be speaking to another part of training the change. It's really important that the rider and horse go "mentally slowly" through this movement. I don't know about you guys, but a flying change, like a jump, tends to make my mind go faster as if I think I need to make a big move because at some precise point in the ring, or some precise moment in a stride, I need to rearrange my aids with precision. The change in balance involved in a flying change is *not* one that can be crammed or rushed without scaring the horse.

All this means that in the beginning, you might trot longer-- as in get the transition, then get some leg yield, feel the new balance established and from that, ask for the new lead. Or walk, leg yield more ambitiously, then ask for the new lead.

[alteringwego]

yes, leg yield out. That will help to re-direct the weight to the outside aids and allow the horse to free up the new inside leg.