Need a CC saddle tutorial

[sunico]

I'm sorry if this topic has been done before - I did a search and didn't come up with exactly what I need help in.

I want to buy a used cc saddle, I don't need the "latest fashion", but I also don't want to get laughed out of the ring. I've been doing dressage for a long time, so it's literally been a decade since I looked at anything but a dressage saddle.

I'm seeing some lovely (expensive) cc saddles out there, I don't need anything like that, I just want a nice, used, older model that will sit me in the right position, be fairly comfy, and isn't... you know... so old it's going to get laughed at.

What is your favourite older-model saddle?

[jaslyn1701]

I bought a new "old" Crosby PDN a little over a year ago. Absolutely love it. No bells or whistles, just a great saddle.

[mvp]

I may or may not be able to answer your question with the specificity you want but here goes:

First, you need the saddle that fits you and the beast.

You:

You ought to sit and then ride in many. If you have only been riding in dressage saddles for the past decade, it will take you some time to figure out how to balance in any cc saddle, and from there, to figure out which shape of seat and flap suit you. A H/J trainer's eyes on the ground would be an especially helpful addition here since you will have to sort out the effect of the saddle from your own unfamiliarity with the position.

The beast:
You may have to let you horse guide you to the right kind of saddle. I like wool flocked panels because they can be modified a bit. But if you have a conventionally-shaped horse and get a little bit lucky, a foam flocked saddle can work. There is thing to remember about older ccs-- I'm thinking of Prix des Nations, as a type. Their trees and gullets were built much more narrow than are modern saddles and most dressage saddles.

Aesthetically, flaps with knee pads covered in calf (not suede) are in; plain flaps are out. Older saddles (again, PdNs, Hermes, old equitation saddles) will have flatter seats than newer jumping saddles (Bruno Del Grange/PJ saddles). The sweat flap will have no blocks, one of a variety of shapes up front near your knee and thigh, and sometimes a rear one (presumably to keep your lower leg from swinging back). All of these are easier to remove than to add. You will rarely feel the rear block. I'm not a fan.

Another modern trend is very forward flaps which work for the long femured, or encourage the rest of us to jack up our stirrups as though we were all going to jump honkin' oxers. You'll have enough to get used to raising your stirrups to a normal level. Don't let a saddle sucker you into raising them beyond what you need. If your stirrup hits your angle bone when your feet are just hanging down, that's about the right length. With your feet now in the stirrups, your knee should find a natural "pocket" in the flap. In a two point, you should feel the knee pads/blocks supporting your thigh gently. Give the saddle some time during your test ride, but if they feel as if they are in the way, or your knee comes of the front of the flap, this is not the saddle for you.

Where to start?

I'd sit in a Pessoa saddle. These are a great "middle of the road" saddle in many respects. They are mid-price, well-balanced, a comfortable shape for many horses and conventional-looking. There are also many floating around.

Butet saddles have set the aesthetic standard for a long time in Hunter World. I'm not convinced that they are particularly horse friendly, but sit in one if you have the chance.

Next, see if you can find a County Stablizer to try. The seat will feel very flat to you, but they are notoriously comfortable for both man and beast, and well-made. Their tree design plus wool flocked and generous panels make many horses happy. Being a very flat, "open" saddle, these take some H/J-specific balance and fitness to ride in. But give this puppy a chance.

Finally, find a "french bucket" to test. I'm thinking of a PJ Original. These are deep seated, padded and blocked on the flaps for a very supportive ride. Some find they can't get out of the seat over fences. Others dig 'em.

Once you have tried these four types, I think you will have a sense of the range of saddle types out there. From that base you can get more specific and let fitting and finances guide your search to The One.

Best of luck to you.

[jen-s]

I may or may not be able to answer your question with the specificity you want but here goes:

First, you need the saddle that fits you and the beast.

You:

You ought to sit and then ride in many. If you have only been riding in dressage saddles for the past decade, it will take you some time to figure out how to balance in any cc saddle, and from there, to figure out which shape of seat and flap suit you. A H/J trainer's eyes on the ground would be an especially helpful addition here since you will have to sort out the effect of the saddle from your own unfamiliarity with the position.

The beast:
You may have to let you horse guide you to the right kind of saddle. I like wool flocked panels because they can be modified a bit. But if you have a conventionally-shaped horse and get a little bit lucky, a foam flocked saddle can work. There is thing to remember about older ccs-- I'm thinking of Prix des Nations, as a type. Their trees and gullets were built much more narrow than are modern saddles and most dressage saddles.

Aesthetically, flaps with knee pads covered in calf (not suede) are in; plain flaps are out. Older saddles (again, PdNs, Hermes, old equitation saddles) will have flatter seats than newer jumping saddles (Bruno Del Grange/PJ saddles). The sweat flap will have no blocks, one of a variety of shapes up front near your knee and thigh, and sometimes a rear one (presumably to keep your lower leg from swinging back). All of these are easier to remove than to add. You will rarely feel the rear block. I'm not a fan.

Another modern trend is very forward flaps which work for the long femured, or encourage the rest of us to jack up our stirrups as though we were all going to jump honkin' oxers. You'll have enough to get used to raising your stirrups to a normal level. Don't let a saddle sucker you into raising them beyond what you need. If your stirrup hits your angle bone when your feet are just hanging down, that's about the right length. With your feet now in the stirrups, your knee should find a natural "pocket" in the flap. In a two point, you should feel the knee pads/blocks supporting your thigh gently. Give the saddle some time during your test ride, but if they feel as if they are in the way, or your knee comes of the front of the flap, this is not the saddle for you.

Where to start?

I'd sit in a Pessoa saddle. These are a great "middle of the road" saddle in many respects. They are mid-price, well-balanced, a comfortable shape for many horses and conventional-looking. There are also many floating around.

Butet saddles have set the aesthetic standard for a long time in Hunter World. I'm not convinced that they are particularly horse friendly, but sit in one if you have the chance.

Next, see if you can find a County Stablizer to try. The seat will feel very flat to you, but they are notoriously comfortable for both man and beast, and well-made. Their tree design plus wool flocked and generous panels make many horses happy. Being a very flat, "open" saddle, these take some H/J-specific balance and fitness to ride in. But give this puppy a chance.

Finally, find a "french bucket" to test. I'm thinking of a PJ Original. These are deep seated, padded and blocked on the flaps for a very supportive ride. Some find they can't get out of the seat over fences. Others dig 'em.

Once you have tried these four types, I think you will have a sense of the range of saddle types out there. From that base you can get more specific and let fitting and finances guide your search to The One.

Best of luck to you.

MVP--you rock! Well-stated and spot on.

[hellerkm]

MVP--you rock! Well-stated and spot on.


YUP!!! what she said! I am currently going on a saddle hunt and this is EXACTLY the info I needed as well, this belongs in a sticky somewhere!

[TrakeGirl]

Where to start?

I'd sit in a Pessoa saddle.

Butet saddles have set the aesthetic standard for a long time in Hunter World.

Next, see if you can find a County Stablizer to try.

Finally, find a "french bucket" to test.

Once you have tried these four types, I think you will have a sense of the range of saddle types out there. From that base you can get more specific and let fitting and finances guide your search to The One.


Great post MVP!! I am looking for inspiration now and hoping people here can help. My saddle is too wide for my horse so now shopping for a new (probably used) one. Per your list: sat in a Butet. Not a fan at all - WAYYYYY too cushy for my taste and didn't fit horse well. Sat in a Pessoa (older model) - again, seat felt way too cushy. I consider the Butet a French bucket (it was the deep seat) and I am guessing I would pretty much hate any of the other ones. Not been able to try the County Stabilizer yet.

I ride in a Passier Precision which I love dearly and will probably just get one in a smaller tree size - but wanted to test the waters of other possibilities while I am on the hunt. I think my Passier is pretty dang flat and has a hard seat - which to me is the most comfortable. Other options? Is the County a cushy seat or a hard one?

Thanks!

[mvp]

Well, T-girl, if you have a hankering for a bed-of-nails type seat, don't let me stand in your way.

A County will be offensively soft in the seat to you. Others adore it for exactly the same reason.

But you still might try a County Stabilizer if you can lay your hands on one. These are well-designed, well-built saddles. They also have a pretty straight, minimalist flap that might suit you in terms of balance if not hard-as-a-rock seat.

Otherwise, you can perhaps save some money by looking at old Collegiates or Crosby XLs (thought these flaps tend to run long).

Be warned-- once your booty sees "how the other half lives" it won't be satisfied with hard, old-skool seat.

Oh, oh! Another idea! If you really must have a hard, pig-skin seat, call up Smith-Worthington, or look at their website. You may be talking new saddle here, but they are one of the last companies making a traditional kind of seat. Their saddles are pretty well-built for the money and will be flocked with wool for future adjustability. The peeps in their Hartford warehouse/Mother Ship know their stuff about saddle fitting, are helpful on the phone and have a huge selection of demos. They'll pick you a ginormous set of candidates and send 'em out in a huge box for minimal shipping.

[PROTACKGUY]

Very nice overview mvp, could not have expressed it better..

[TrakeGirl]

Well, T-girl, if you have a hankering for a bed-of-nails type seat, don't let me stand in your way.

A County will be offensively soft in the seat to you. Others adore it for exactly the same reason.

But you still might try a County Stabilizer if you can lay your hands on one. These are well-designed, well-built saddles. They also have a pretty straight, minimalist flap that might suit you in terms of balance if not hard-as-a-rock seat.

Otherwise, you can perhaps save some money by looking at old Collegiates or Crosby XLs (thought these flaps tend to run long).

Be warned-- once your booty sees "how the other half lives" it won't be satisfied with hard, old-skool seat.

Oh, oh! Another idea! If you really must have a hard, pig-skin seat, call up Smith-Worthington, or look at their website. You may be talking new saddle here, but they are one of the last companies making a traditional kind of seat. Their saddles are pretty well-built for the money and will be flocked with wool for future adjustability. The peeps in their Hartford warehouse/Mother Ship know their stuff about saddle fitting, are helpful on the phone and have a huge selection of demos. They'll pick you a ginormous set of candidates and send 'em out in a huge box for minimal shipping.

Thanks for the tips! Will try calling Smith-Worthington and try to find a County to try. I used to have a Crosby XL - I actually do need the long flaps - but it was too narrow for my horse. But maybe I'll try that again now.

And I do believe if I find a softer saddle that does not offend my booty - I'm sure I won't believe I ever rode in the Passier - but I've ridden in plenty of soft seats and haven't found one I like.

[Tamsin]

Can anyone comment on how the County Pro Fit saddles compare with the Stabilizer or Innovation models?

[shmon]

I believe the Pro-Fit was built on the Stabilizer tree, but has a deeper seat. It will feel more like the Stabilizer than the Innovation - but in terms of seat depth and now it holds you in the saddle, it'll be somewhere in between the two.

[Rescue_Rider9]

I rode in an amerigo (sp) at an IHSA show and I loved it!!!!!! Put me right where I needed to be and felt amazing! I have no clue what the price of one is or the exact one I rode in since I just got to sit in it for my 3 min trip! haha But it was GREAT! I would suggest that!

[Spud&Saf]

Trake Girl, you also might want to try a Childeric.

I have an older model, and although the seat is soft, it's not a cushioned bucket. I also removed the knee blocks on mine, and without them I feel like I have a good combo of feel of my horse and comfort.

[cutemudhorse]

Hi!
TrakeGirl, I have both a Passier Precision and a County Stabilizer. I really like them both! But I don't think the Passiers are as hard as my bum remembered them ('course it's got more padding now!:lol:) from twenty years ago. Both of these saddles are very well balanced. The Stabilizer is very comfy no doubt -- probably has more foam (?) in the seat than the Precision. And softer leather perhaps. Definately a nice saddle.

[Lucassb]

Great post MVP!! I am looking for inspiration now and hoping people here can help. My saddle is too wide for my horse so now shopping for a new (probably used) one. Per your list: sat in a Butet. Not a fan at all - WAYYYYY too cushy for my taste and didn't fit horse well. Sat in a Pessoa (older model) - again, seat felt way too cushy. I consider the Butet a French bucket (it was the deep seat) and I am guessing I would pretty much hate any of the other ones. Not been able to try the County Stabilizer yet.

I ride in a Passier Precision which I love dearly and will probably just get one in a smaller tree size - but wanted to test the waters of other possibilities while I am on the hunt. I think my Passier is pretty dang flat and has a hard seat - which to me is the most comfortable. Other options? Is the County a cushy seat or a hard one?

Thanks!

I found the flat seat Butet to be the perfect balance for me (and I can't stand the deep seat model, go figure) so you may want to at least sit in one.

However, if you are looking for a real pancake - try an older Hermes Steinkraus or one of the Tad Coffin saddles. Quite different in feel (and both were too hard for my taste) but both have lovely balance.