Saddle thoughts

[iluvponies]

A very well known, highly regarded lameness vet has told me that most of the "trendy" custom saddles we have in hunter/jumper land really aren't the best for our horses. He says while most can be worked on by a saddle fitter to fit the horse and rider, their are better options that would be best for the horse in the long run. A few he mentioned that he did not like were Butet, Tad Coffins and Devoucoux. I just purchased one of these last year, so hearing that my $4000+ investment is not suitable for my horse was a bummer.
Has anyone elese heard this from a non-bias, experienced vet or saddle fitter? Clearly Tad Coffin, Butet, Devoucoux, etc reps and most owners are going to disagree and say their saddles are a great fit for most. This vet in particular recommends the Schleese saddles for most horses. I looked at their website and their jumping saddle does not "look the part" of a nice, traditional hunter/jumper saddle. Does anyone have the non-dressage Schleese saddles? Looking for some feedback and opinions.

[chawley]

Personally, I think he is over-generalizing on a very complex issue. Every horse's conformation is different. And while a particular high-end or custom saddle may not always fit X horse perfectly, it's going to be fine for another horse. If your saddle fits your horse correctly and isn't causing him/her problems, I'd probably not worry about it.

Sometimes a sore back is a result of other issues such hocks, stifles, SI joints, etc., and not from saddle fit.

[meupatdoes]

A very well known, highly regarded lameness vet has told me that most of the "trendy" custom saddles we have in hunter/jumper land really aren't the best for our horses. He says while most can be worked on by a saddle fitter to fit the horse and rider, their are better options that would be best for the horse in the long run. A few he mentioned that he did not like were Butet, Tad Coffins and Devoucoux. I just purchased one of these last year, so hearing that my $4000+ investment is not suitable for my horse was a bummer.
Has anyone elese heard this from a non-bias, experienced vet or saddle fitter? Clearly Tad Coffin, Butet, Devoucoux, etc reps and most owners are going to disagree and say their saddles are a great fit for most. This vet in particular recommends the Schleese saddles for most horses. I looked at their website and their jumping saddle does not "look the part" of a nice, traditional hunter/jumper saddle. Does anyone have the non-dressage Schleese saddles? Looking for some feedback and opinions.


I ABSOLUTELY have heard this from (multiple) brand independent saddle fitters. (I too own a Tad Coffin; once I learned how to fit a saddle I discovered it does not fit a SINGLE horse I put it on. Can't find a horse to ride in it. I've put it on 50+, too.)


In general my shorthand is to stay away from anything foam filled and french.


The fitting relationship that develops when you buy a wool flocked saddle from a certified saddle fitter who has multiple brands on hand is akin to the relationship with the farrier and the vet: an essential part of the team.


My custom saddles from my fitter have not cost a penny over $2,500; I could have gone cheaper, I could have gone pricier.
I have Albions. They look fine in the hunt ring (not that I care; I would ride in a synthetic Thorowgood if it was the best for my horse) and you can pick what leather and flap style you want.

[meupatdoes]

Personally, I think he is over-generalizing on a very complex issue. Every horse's conformation is different. And while a particular high-end or custom saddle may not always fit X horse perfectly, it's going to be fine for another horse. If your saddle fits your horse correctly and isn't causing him/her problems, I'd probably not worry about it.

Sometimes a sore back is a result of other issues such hocks, stifles, SI joints, etc., and not from saddle fit.

I disagree.

Many of the "trendy" brands cow-tow to the general obsession with a narrow twist.

Rather than explaining to their customers that you simply can not put a narrow twist on a wide horse comfortably, and you may have to just suck it up or buy a narrower horse, because the TWIST is part of the TREE, they recess the stirrup bars, keep the saddle narrow, and let everything dig in behind the horse's shoulder blades.

The pivot/pressure point this creates is one of the major reasons why you see so many pictures where the cantle is hovering 4" above the back over a fence, with all of the rider's weight concentrated on one tiny area of the panel.

Mmm, comfy.



Furthermore, the construction of the panels with foam rather than wool is not conducive to establishing a dynamic fitting relationship with a professional fitter. Horses' backs change over the course of a year depending on their work load, their fatness or skinniness, the work they are doing, etc etc. A well-maintained wool-flocked saddle will be seen by a fitter two or three times a year (for WAY LESS than the entries at one horse show, so don't even start with me) to make small but very helpful adjustments to the flocking, much the way a farrier might tweak how he shoes a little depending on the situation or you might tweak your horse's supplements depending on the time of year.

The foam panels completely eliminate this dynamic relationship because the only way to tweak them is to take them completely off the saddle and replace them with new ones, for a price between $400 and $800.

[see u at x]

Agree with everything meupatdoes said. I've heard the exact same thing from a couple of different saddle fitters and at least one vet. One saddle fitter told me that there is never, ever any possible reason for a saddle to cost more than $2,000-$2,500....especially one with the foam panels.

[Perfect Pony]

I ride in County saddles, they are wool flocked with wide panels and wide gullets. I personally prefer the Stabilizer, but the new Innovation is as gorgeous looking as any French saddle.

[mvp]

Yup. $4.500 for a saddle flocked with foam and covered with a layer of calf that will wear through is not my idea of a sound investment.

What I think the vet might have said that would been better is:

"There is no such thing as one saddle or type that will fit every horse. Make sure you educate yourself about saddle fit and go from there."

I am a fan of wool. For my beast, a British rather than French or Italian tree is a good bet. I also want a saddle that looks the part in the hunter ring.

I also agree that we need to accept wider twists, but the big deal is a wider waist (the narrow part of the hour-glass shape to the panels underneath) plus the right space in the gullet. The problem is that Butet (and then Crosby PdNs and then Hermes before that) set the aesthetic pace for a very, very long time. We can't get used to others.

Before you give up, ride in a Black Country Quantum. That company plus saddle fitting help from Trumbull Mountain Tack is a great combination. You *can* have the saddle that you want built for between $2,500 and $3 K or so, and it will happen quickly. I also think TM tack will guarantee fit to an extent. Call 'em.

[Maya01]

Yup. $4.500 for a saddle flocked with foam and covered with a layer of calf that will wear through is not my idea of a sound investment.


Errr....I'm not sure about the other saddles, but I have seen age old devoucouxs in great condition. I have tried my devoucoux chiberta on many horses and it fit well...

Your vet may be biased...not all horses can fit into one make of saddle. I find that the taller withered and the narrow horses fit better in devoucouxs.

Saddles are like jeans - your horse wouldn't fit into every brand.

[patina.marc]

I think that is a very odd comment for a vet to make and therefore it sounds biased. If he is good and well respected, he is also seeing horses that barrel race and rein...horses that are carrying 40lb saddles on their backs, not to mention the weight of the riders.

Flocked saddles and ongoing relationships?? Who's kidding who? I had a fitter tell me that flocking saddles was his steady income!!

I agree with the comment, 'saddles are like jeans'!! Not everybody, not every horse fits in the same saddle. If you like your foamy French saddle...enjoy it! Don't let a vet blame a saddle for making a horse lame!!

[Bogie]

My saddle fitter says that he sees a lot of people who end up not happy with their foam panel french saddles. He does a lot of conversions to wool.

He does NOT sell any saddles.

He does NOT charge you to look at your saddle and if it fits, he tells you.

I, personally ride in a Roosli, a County and a treeless saddle. There are times when he comes to check my saddles and does not charge me a dime. The most I ever pay is $100 for adjusting the wool.

Lots of people love their foam panels. That's fine with me. Maybe it will work out fine for them.

[meupatdoes]

Flocked saddles and ongoing relationships?? Who's kidding who? I had a fitter tell me that flocking saddles was his steady income!!


And my farrier makes her money doing those needless trims on my horse that is barefoot anyway...
And the dentist comes and does those needless teeth floatings when the horses are going just fine without him.
Some people even have chiropracters and acupuncturists making their living off of needlessly adjusting...the back?

Who are these people ripping us off making a steady income off of helping our horses stay happy and sound?
Jeeeeze.




Do you seriously think that if you buy a saddle for a horse and keep it for 5 years, your horse's back is not going to change AT ALL in the meantime??!
Maybe if you had a saddle fitter coming out doing comparative tracings and keeping records you would be able to see with your own eyes how much a back can change.

[iluvponies]

I think that most people just really do not know what a properly fitted saddle entails. I agree with everyone who says that not all saddles are for every horse, but the point I was getting at --is why are such expensive saddles so popular if they really are not the best for the majority of the horses out there? And just because a saddle appears to fit, doesn't mean it is comfortable on the horse. Saddle representatives are out there to make a buck, independant saddle fitters that do not represent a certain brand are more likely to give you an accurate opinion.
I have heard that Albions are a great choice for most warmblood types with a wider back, as the twist isn't as narrow.

[SprinklerBandit]

why are such expensive saddles so popular if they really are the best for the majority of the horses out there?

Expensive saddles are popular for the same reason that kids shop at Hollister and Abercrombie and any other store that can sell a t shirt for $60. Everyone else who's cool has one, so you need one too.

I'm not saying that all expensive saddles are bad. I'm way too poor to ride in many of them, but their brand appeal is what sells them.

That said, my saddle cost ~$3500 new. My horse loves it. I love it. I especially love that I got it used for $900.

[SLNELSON25]

I have been trying to find a good fit for my draft cross. The journey of the last month has been very frustrating!

I have been riding horses for 25 years. I am no big time horse person, just a little hunter stuff and pleasure.

Anyone else feel like this is a 'new' conversation? That before all these 'innovations' the standard wool flocked saddle everyone had didn't cause problems? The saddle I had for 20 years fit everything I put it on! Was I just lucky?

Now I have a big wide horse with definite saddle fit issues (no foam panelled saddle has worked YET), and my brain is killing me with the research! For the moment, I plan to go with a county, as a consignment one I'm trying seems to be doing the trick...

I just feel like you didn't hear about fit in the good ole days!

[Bogie]

The saddle I had for 20 years fit everything I put it on! Was I just lucky?

I just feel like you didn't hear about fit in the good ole days!

You were either lucky . . . or the saddle didn't fit but your horse didn't complain enough about it for you to know.

I had the same saddle for 14 years. I rode a lot of horses in it. I knew nothing about saddle fit and none of my trainers ever said anything. Now that I know how to evaluate saddle fit I KNOW that saddle did not fit all the horses I rode.

I still see lots of people riding horses in saddles that clearly don't fit. Saddles that rest on their horses' spines or are perched over their withers. I do think that there are some saddles that fit more horses just because of the shape of their panels . . . stubbens jump to mind.

why are such expensive saddles so popular if they really are not the best for the majority of the horses out there?

Because they are comfortable for the riders and because lots of people still don't know much about saddle fit.