WWYD?

[Mamy]

I was going to free lease a pony for my kids. Went tried pony, pony was great. Got pony home, Paid for owner to ship it to my barn. My BO looked it over and said it is only 2. And then gave me a quickie teeth lesson. So I have called and emailed the owner, who told me pony was older, letting her know this is not what I was looking for and please get back to me to let me know what to do next. I also mentioned that I wanted a partial refund of my money. I figured partial so she was not completely out the gas, ya know?
It has been 3 days and I have not heard back from her at all. I am thinking of putting a stop payment on the check I worte her, but do not want to burn an bridges either...
So, wwyd, stop payment on the check or not?
And what do I do with the pony now? I am racking up board bills.. which is not world ending, but the longer the pony is here, the more worried I am of something going wrong(like pony getting hurt) or of her getting it back and trying to claim it somehow got hurt at my barn.

[5]

How much does the child riding weigh? How much does the pony weigh?
If the child is a flyweight and the work doesn't include leaping tall buildings the pony might be able to handle the workload just fine.
Ask a vet and go by his recommendation.

[LauraKY]

I don't understand. You have a free lease (which implies money did not change hands) but you wrote a check? Was it just for trailering? What does your lease say? Please tell me you have a written lease. Is the age of the pony stated on the lease? If so, it's fraud. I would definitely stop payment on the check.

I would not be riding a two year old pony either. Send her a certified letter stating that you have to return the pony because it was not the age you she represented. You're really in a pickle if she doesn't respond. You may have to get legal advice.

Don't know why you would want to continue an association with her. Either she lied to you or was not very knowledgeable about horses.

[smokescreen]

Teeth are not an exact science. When my horse was a 4yo he had the teeth of a 2yo. He will be turning 6 in January and he still doesn't have all of his canine teeth (not Wolf teeth) in yet. I say if the child liked the pony ride the pony.

[Lady Counselor]

You ask WWYD, so this is what I would do...your results may vary.

If the pony is OK, does what you ask, and isn't a nutbag, I'd try her out for a while. She'll soon be 3. Just because a horse is young, it doesn't automatically render them crazy/useless. Just have someone decent help or oversee what you are doing if you haven't worked with a youngster before. If she isn't working, return her.

If I paid for a service, as in shipping, and that service was rendered, I would not put a stop payment on a check. (Her moving the horse home on her own nickel and time would suffice, if she takes the pony back.)

[Mamy]

Never mind. I heard from her. She covered her bases. There is a written lease, of course I do not have a copy of it, it was to be faxed to me and has not been yet. And sadly I only skimmed the lease, due to a screaming sick baby. My fault BIG time.
I paid her for shipping the pony to me. I still think I am in the right here. I think she, misrepresented the pony's age to me. She insistes she was clear(yeah as mud).
I'm sick. My kids are sick. My brain is not working. So if anyone wants to stick their nose in this and read them emails to give their 2 cents, pm me. If anyone has any law knowledge, please pm me! If I'm wrong I'd like to be corrected,lol.

[trubandloki]

If you rode the pony and it was fine for your kids what is the big deal?

And teeth are not an exact science. I had my 3yos teeth re-checked by the vet when I did fall shots and was told her teeth are way behind.

[Mamy]

It is funny, when I posted the other day that the pony was younger, I was told I was crazy for thinking of putting my kids on a 2 yr old pony. Now I'm told I should put my kids on the 2 year old pony. I guess it all depends on the day here, huh?
Really my question had to due with what to do about lack of contact from the owner and stopping payment on a check. I did hear back from the owner so that's sort of a moot point now.
As for my kids on the pony, we'll see. Pony is NOT as quiet as it was the day we rode it for hours at its old home. It likes to buck and play. Not something my kids can ride. Now maybe it would settle in, I'm sure it would. But based on owners communication with me today, I want not much else to do with her. I now fear she is the type who would find something wrong with pony when I send it back in the spring, and I do not want to deal with that headache.

[trubandloki]

I have not seen the other post you talk about so I did not comment there. So no, day has nothing to do with it.
And I am not saying to put your kid on a 2yo. I am saying that teeth are not accurate. In other words, just because it has 2yo teeth does not mean it is actually a 2yo. My almost 4yo has barely 3yo teeth. Do you get the point now?

[Woodland]

If you rode the pony and it was fine for your kids what is the big deal?

And teeth are not an exact science. I had my 3yos teeth re-checked by the vet when I did fall shots and was told her teeth are way behind.


Ummm this is what I think too. I just went through this with a APHA registered horse this summer. His foal pics are on the papers the papers are in the hands of the new owner and she swears he is 5 not 3 :confused:

If you rode the pony and the pont was fine why on Earth are you teaching your kids to be "just sick about it"? Why don't you ENJOY him for this month and then ship him home?

I think this is buyers/lessors remorse more than anything - more about the money than the age - JMHO - could be how it is written.

[Anselcat]

How old did she say the pony was when you tried it? Does the owner now agree that the pony is only 2?

How long are you obligated to keep the pony? Did the written contract say anything about termination?

Asking to try and understand the situation better, not being snarky.

[Mamy]

Ummm this is what I think too. I just went through this with a APHA registered horse this summer. His foal pics are on the papers the papers are in the hands of the new owner and she swears he is 5 not 3 :confused:

If you rode the pony and the pont was fine why on Earth are you teaching your kids to be "just sick about it"? Why don't you ENJOY him for this month and then ship him home?

I think this is buyers/lessors remorse more than anything - more about the money than the age - JMHO - could be how it is written.


I wish you could know me in person. I am not the type to get buyers remorse. And I do not know what you put in quotes? What am I teaching my kids? " Just sick about it". If I said anything like that it had to do with the fact that we have H1N1 right now and are REALLY sick here. I may not be writting clearly due to lack of sleep. My kids are not sleeping well.
And since getting the pony here is it a bit hot. Like I already posted, that could change as it settles in. But at this time I am getting red flags.
But you could be right.. maybe we should just sit back and see what happens. Or maybe I should just wait till the sickness clears and I can think better.

[City Ponies]

I'm kinda with the "maybe" crowd. While she MAY have been misrepresenting the pony, teeth aren't an exact science. My mare's front teeth were that of a 6 year old when I got her, but vet said she was 2 based on lack of development of the canines. While we had to pull 2 of Reno's baby teeth as a late 3 yr old as they were starting to back up and it was making bitting difficult. At 4 I still say he has a baby-looking mouth.

[Mamy]

How old did she say the pony was when you tried it? Does the owner now agree that the pony is only 2?

How long are you obligated to keep the pony? Did the written contract say anything about termination?

Asking to try and understand the situation better, not being snarky.

you are not being snarky.
owner told me, in an email that the pony is 3. She told me it was 2.5 when she got it. But never told me when she got it.
Now she is saying pony is 2.5. But In an email I just got from her she goes back and forth saying 2.5 and 3.

The lease is up March 31,2010. If I end early I just ship it back to her.

[AnotherRound]

I would highly doubt the accuracy of someone looking at the pony and saying its only 2 years old. The teeth aren't that accurate, so one can't really say that.

As for 2.5 or 3, well who cares? What's the difference? There isn't much difference in that kind of age with a young horse. If you thought the horse was fine at age 3, the horse is still fine at age 2.5.

The real question seems to be if the horse is really fine for your kids. Any horse is going to be different when you bring him home, and any horse under the age of 4 is a baby, and going to act like one. Many breeds are babyish in their minds for many more years to come. Accepting a young horse put you at risk for encountering young horse behaviour, even if you thought the horse was three. Three is still a baby. Looking for something the owner didn't disclose to you so as to find an excuse to return him isn't really kosher - when your chosen reason is a difference in age of 6 months.

No, even if the horse was misrepresented, you wouldn't really have the right to cancel the check for shipping. She fullfilled her obligation which earned her the shipping fee, no matter what she shipped, since you agreed to pay her to ship it. That seems pretty clear to me. I'm not sure why it isn't clear to you.

Hope you and your kids can enjoy the horse for a time. Good luck.

[trubandloki]

you are not being snarky.
owner told me, in an email that the pony is 3. She told me it was 2.5 when she got it. But never told me when she got it.
Now she is saying pony is 2.5. But In an email I just got from her she goes back and forth saying 2.5 and 3.

The lease is up March 31,2010. If I end early I just ship it back to her.

The difference between 2.5 and 3 can be easily explained.

I do not think I have to go over the teeth thing again, do I? At almost four my mare has teeth that clearly look like almost 3. So that would make for the difference you see in your pony's teeth and what you think they should look like.

And the 2.5 vs. 3 thing could simply be that it is coming 3 as of January 1st in the horse world but chronologically it is really 2.5.

[Anselcat]

What would I do?

Probably keep the pony for a month or so and see whether it settles down. If it's not a good match -- end the lease early and send pony back. If nothing else it will be a good (though hard) lesson for the kids that horses are unpredictable, and things sometimes don't work out.

I just don't think there is enough here to warrant you stopping payment on the check -- can't be proven just how old the pony is, and it's not unusual for them to be more "up" when moved to a new home.

Hope you feel better, flu is no fun.

[Fairview Horse Center]

The teeth to say the pony is 3 1/2, not 2 1/2 sometimes do not come in until 4. (middle nippers come at 2 1/2, next teeth at 3 1/2, corners at 4 1/2). So a pony with adult middle nippers, but no others could be anywhere from 2 to 4. A pony born in June of 2006 would not be 3 1/2 yet, so those teeth not even expected yet.

If you don't want the pony, ship it back. If it is being good when handling, and ridden, keep it for a trial.

[Mamy]

No no no... I am not communicating well. I am sorry for that.
Ok I was told the pony is 3 now. So in my mind 3 comming 4. Pony is 2.
I get that you all think I am wrong here.
Trub- feel free to go over the teeth thing again, if ya want. I get that your mare has baby teeth. Got it.
I said I could be wrong. I said maybe I need to sit back and rethink things when I am not sick. I do not claim to know it all or to be perfect.

AR- the age issue is a year NOT 6 months. I was told pony is 3. Pony is 2. Owner told me pony was 2.5 last year. So I took that to mean pony is 3.5 now. Not going to be 3.
Still if pony is quiet, sweet and sane, in theory it could work out. There is some other stuff going on, that I can not post on a public board.. yet.

Really though, I only wanted to know , with no communication from owner, if you would have stopped the check. I have heard from her though, and she did indeed provide a service. So that is not even a question any longer.

[Janet]

The check was for shipping.

The service was provided.

If you paid SOMEONE ELSE for the shipping, you wouldn't be talking about stopping payment.

Personally, I wouldn't be leasing either a 2 yo OR a 3 yo ( or 3.5) for young kids. But it is only 2 months until the pony is officially 3, so if you wre OK with 3, I don't see the age as being a problem.

Now, if the pony is not behaving properly, what are the term of you lease? How much notice do you have to give before returning the pony?

[Luckydonkey]

WOW- I think you should pay to send the pony back, and then re-think having horses for awhile if the age difference between 2.5 and 3 is that big a deal for you, and it bothers you that a pony that young want to run and buck and play in a new home.... perhaps you should just take lessons if you are "racking up board" on this suddenly unwanted pony....Geez- people like you drive me nuts!:no:

[Fairview Horse Center]

My BO looked it over and said it is only 2. And then gave me a quickie teeth lesson.

See my above post. Your BO would not be able to tell that unless no adult teeth are in at all.

So are they???

[Mamy]

See my above post. Your BO would not be able to tell that unless no adult teeth are in at all.

So are they???

she has 2 adult teeth.

[moonriverfarm]

Ride the pony. It will be older every day.

[Fairview Horse Center]

she has 2 adult teeth.

Ok, so no way of knowing if she is 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 by her teeth. If they are actually in, not just looking like some kind of a broken tooth (which is how they start for several months), then my guess would be 3 1/2.

You maybe have gone thru all this for nothing.

[Mamy]

WOW- I think you should pay to send the pony back, and then re-think having horses for awhile if the age difference between 2.5 and 3 is that big a deal for you, and it bothers you that a pony that young want to run and buck and play in a new home.... perhaps you should just take lessons if you are "racking up board" on this suddenly unwanted pony....Geez- people like you drive me nuts!:no:


Sorry I ruined your day. And maybe I should give up on horses. You could be right.
I hope we can meet one day, so you can see you made a poor judgement.
I did say that it is normal for a pony to play in a new home. That is not why I want to return it.
I was ok with putting my kid a a pony about to turn 4 in 2 months. Now there have been some good points made here, if she was good before, what has changed now? That is valid. I can acknowledge that, and I am. I stated I may need to rethink this. And I will. But there is still one more HUGE reason, that I can not yet post. Maybe then you will all go.. " ahhh" but really? It makes no difference.
I really should stop posting now. I got my answer, I'm good.
Thank you all for taking the time to post. I hope everyone has a great Friday!

[findeight]

Confused, did the owner of the Pony admit she was wrong about the age? Or are you just going on the opinion of the Barn Owner here?

And was a complete description of the Pony, including age, in the contract? Unless a person bred them or they have papers somewhere they got thru established (legitimate) procedures (name,foaling dates, ancestry, breeding certificate etc etc)? Age is always an approximation, a guess if you will. Maybe owner and barn owner are guessing differently based on what owner was told by seller in her case and BO just has an opinion based on a very subjective analysis of teeth.

My mare's teeth say mid teens-she's 20.

[Kate66]

Mamy,

first of all I am so sorry that you are feeling so sick, and your kids. There is nothing worse than being sick yourself and having to deal with your kids being sick at the same time - sheer misery. We have just been through that flu thing and it was tough.

For now, this whole pony thing isn't worth giving any thought to. You are probably not giving it logical thought if you are so tired and are potentially being more emotional about it than you would be if you had some rest and felt better.

Realistically waiting another month isn't going to make any difference while you are sick anyway. I would suggest letting the pony hang out while you guys get better and maybe in the meantime it will settle a bit. Whether or not people feel you should have got a 2, 3, 4 or 5 year old pony for your kids is a moot point, as you have the pony right now and it did well when your kids tried it. My feeling is that if the pony is a good pony, then given you already have it, it may be worth sticking with for a while.

It's a tough one on the check. I agree with those that say that if it was a commercial shipper you wouldn't stop the check, however feel that is irrelevant, as it wasn't a commercial shipper, it was the person who apparently mislead you, so that's a whole different ball game. So, potentially she mislead you and then charged you for shipping - presumably more than just the cost of her gas, which is really the only hard money that she is out of pocket.

If I were you I would make a financial decision on this. If it wasn't a lot of money, then take the risk, let the check go through, wait until you are all better and see if pony has settled down some. If it's a lot of money, then tough luck to her, cancel the check and tell her to come and pick up her pony. If she never comes to get the pony, then at least you aren't out of pocket for the shipping and it's probably the same situation you will have been in if you had cancelled the lease a month from now.

Good luck either way. Hope you feel better soon.

[MyGiantPony]

But there is still one more HUGE reason, that I can not yet post. Maybe then you will all go.. " ahhh" but really? It makes no difference.


There's no point in anyone saying what we'd do unless we have all the information...and apparently there's a big hairy piece missing.

[Calhoun]

I did not read through every post. My gut reaction is Mamy is overwhelmed in her life. Leasing a 3 year old pony for children is not a good idea. Yes, the pony may appear to have an exceptional temperament, but what happens when the riding and work load increase? We all know how young animals question authority . . . do I really have to do this? Not reading the contract for whatever reason is never good. I could be wrong . . . but your posts indicate you are making decisions hastily. Give the pony back; is it possible for you to lease from a lesson program?

[HenryisBlaisin']

I guess I'm olf-fashioned, because I do not believe that a 2.5-year-old should even have been backed yet, let alone being asked to be a pushbutton kids' pony. At 2, the growth plactes in the long bones are not fused, musculature is not fully developed, and the horse is not physically mature enough for the demands of riding. I wouldn't even consider BACKING this pony until the spring of it's 3-year-old year, at least-and then only once radiographs confirmed closing of growth plates. I think, in the other thread, you said the pony had been jumped, correct? It's WAY to young for that. IMO, no jumping of anything before 4. If, at 2.5, or even at 3, this pony has that kind of mileage on it, I would worry about its future soundness. Personally, if I were in your shoes, I'd send the pony back now, before the kids get attached and want to buy it.

Does the lease specifically give termination instructions/amount of notice needed? Give that much notice before shipping back-if not specified, I'd still give at least 48 hours out of courtesy. I would not ask for shipping charges back, and would expect to pay shipping to return the pony.

[ThirdCharm]

Kind of wondering why the original post said the DENTIST happened to be at the barn and declared the pony to be two, whereas this thread says the BO looked the pony over and said it was only two.

Agree with those who would not worry much about the difference between 2 and 3. Personally would not pick either for a small child with a prior bad experience. You need a pony with one foot in the grave, not one in the womb.

Jennifer

[quicksilverponies]

Well as a pony breeder with over 30 ponies in the barn usually, I can tell you that first, teeth are not an accurate way to tell an exact age as others have stated. Neither can you say that all 2 yr olds or all 3 yr olds will not behave properly for kids. Normally, I would not ever recommend a pony that young for a young child. However, I have some that are born broke and from the time they hit the ground they are safer for a kid to handle than some that are 8 or 9 years old. It all depends on the temperament of that particular pony. What is also important is that the pony be given adequate time to settle in to a new barn, with new people, new horses, and new riders. Even the quietest ponies may get a bit silly in a new environment for a few days. It there is another problem that has not been posted, by all means, send the pony back if you think you should. But if it is the teeth and age you are worried about, I would give the pony a bit of time before making that decision.

[Bluehorsesjp]

you are not being snarky.
owner told me, in an email that the pony is 3. She told me it was 2.5 when she got it. But never told me when she got it.
Now she is saying pony is 2.5. But In an email I just got from her she goes back and forth saying 2.5 and 3.

The lease is up March 31,2010. If I end early I just ship it back to her.

If you are not comfortable with the pony and will just be out shipping then send the pony back. I am sure you can find something else to free lease.
And the sooner you ship the pony back the better. Just in case something were to happen.

[Luckydonkey]

That is a very short lease- why such a short time frame?

[reinerspook]

Ride the pony. It will be older every day.

:lol::yes:

[Woodland]

Never mind. I heard from her. She covered her bases. There is a written lease, of course I do not have a copy of it, it was to be faxed to me and has not been yet. And sadly I only skimmed the lease, due to a screaming sick baby. My fault BIG time.
I paid her for shipping the pony to me. I still think I am in the right here. I think she, misrepresented the pony's age to me. She insistes she was clear(yeah as mud).
I'm sick. My kids are sick. My brain is not working. So if anyone wants to stick their nose in this and read them emails to give their 2 cents, pm me. If anyone has any law knowledge, please pm me! If I'm wrong I'd like to be corrected,lol.

You did not clarify that they are flu sick - your post would lead one to believe that you are "heart sick" or saddened.

I still think you have lessors remorse because this seems to be all about the $$ and little else. I think the age of the pony is just an excuse. It is a FREE lease - return the pony at your expense and go back to a lesson barn - you do not have the stomach for this. Chalk it up to experience.

Was the pony flown in from another country - how high could the shipping fees be???

I think you should be more educated - perhaps by the person you board with - before you attempt this again. That is why a trainer, good friend or agent is so important to newbies.

It could be how it's written. It could be snarky because you are sick. It could be we don't know the whole story - but really no one can make you FREE lease a pony for your kids - so... I am not sure what else you could add that would make it see more plausible..... And I seriously doubt meeting you would change my opinion...I could be wrong.....I broke a tooth last night so I am pretty pissy today....still..... nope thats not it.....

[katarine]

send the pony back now rather than risk it falling in a an abandoned well full of hornets and wild pigs on your watch.

Then, double your child's age and go with THAT number for the next pony's age.

and get a trainer in your pocket to help you.

Passing the Kleenex ;)

[joiedevie99]

Honestly, the cost of shipping is not something to get worked up about. If you aren't happy with the pony and want to take another go at finding something older and more suitable for your kids, find a shipper, send the pony back- consider it a lesson learned and move on.

It will be worse when the kids are older. I helped a friend shop this year and she vetted four horses that the owners swore up and down would pass a vet check, and not a one did. Nothing you can do about that- maybe they knew and hoped she wouldn't find it, maybe they had no clue. She was out nearly $7k on four vettings with no horse to show for it.

[ESG]

Honestly, the cost of shipping is not something to get worked up about. If you aren't happy with the pony and want to take another go at finding something older and more suitable for your kids, find a shipper, send the pony back- consider it a lesson learned and move on.

It will be worse when the kids are older. I helped a friend shop this year and she vetted four horses that the owners swore up and down would pass a vet check, and not a one did. Nothing you can do about that- maybe they knew and hoped she wouldn't find it, maybe they had no clue. She was out nearly $7k on four vettings with no horse to show for it.

Nearly $7K for four vettings?!?!? :eek: No wonder none of the horses "passed". I don't know of a single horse on the planet that could go through a $1750 (average) vetting and not have something crop up.

OP, send the pony back. It's clearly not suitable for either you or your child at this time, and that's all that matters. Pay the shipping back, get to feeling better, and then start looking again. :yes:

[LauraKY]

Didn't know you thought the pony was three. Why a three year old pony? Agree with other poster, this horse should have just been backed. Typically, green horse + green rider = disaster.

[TheJenners]

As a side note to all the drama: in some states, stopping payment on ANY check in an attempt to defraud someone of money owed for services rendered is illegal. Just a little FYI.

[Chardavej]

Nearly $7K for four vettings?!?!? :eek: No wonder none of the horses passed. I don't know of a single horse on the planet that could go through a $1750 (average) vetting and not have something crop up.


You beat me to this, Holy Cow Batman!! What the heck did those vettings entale?

[ESG]

You beat me to this, Holy Cow Batman!! What the heck did those vettings entale?

Dare I say, "Someone's impossible to please" ?!?!? :p

Sorry, OP, didn't mean to hijack. :o

[Fairview Horse Center]

She was out nearly $7k on four vettings with no horse to show for it.

People are terrified of making a mistake, and forever looking for the perfect horse. More and more they are discovering that: clean xrays do not mean the horse is sound. Findings on xrays are not more likely to become a problem. Flexions are most useful to try to figure out where an unsound horse is hurting.

[joiedevie99]

Not to hijack either- but friend was looking at expensive young hunters and was unwilling to take anything less than perfect because of fear of difficulty reselling. In this area, a typical PPE with full x-rays will run $1500ish. One horse she was in love with she ultrasounded in hopes that something wasn't actually an issue, but it was. She also added some additional bloodwork and manual neuro exam I believe. I heard about them all after the fact. Heck- board up here is 2500+ per month. It's easy to forget how absurd the prices really are.

She does have an absolutely lovely horse now though :)

[2foals]

Ok, now that I'm writing a post I forget how old you said your kids are that you leased the pony for, but I agree, a 2 1/2 to 3 year old pony probably isn't the best choice. When you free lease, you can't be choosy. People usually want to freelease their greenies (to get them more experience), horses with issues (to get them out of their hair), or horses of advanced age (that can't really be sold). The first two aren't great for kids but the last category is perfect--so try and look for one of those. You need a special pair of glasses when looking at kids ponies--you need to see past a swayback or a muddy Thelwellian coat and a mane that sticks out in six directions--and look directly at the pony's character.

When you deal with horses, stuff happens. You should have clarified the age better with the lessor before you took the horse, and she also should have been more up front! Since it is a free lease, I don't think you have much recourse to get your shipping $$ back. BTW, when looking at ponies for kids, you need a second adult to watch the kids or you need to leave the kids with a sitter so that you can really concentrate and ask the necessary questions and be sure that important issues aren't glossed over.

Don't waste time beating yourself up or stressing out about this issue. The pony isn't suitable, send it back. You learned a lesson, and you learned it cheaply since you didn't pay any money for the pony and more importantly no one got hurt, you are just out a few $$. The right pony will come along!